Levi Wallce buried on depth chart; if he's cut...?

[Johnny Hammersticks]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

This is probably the highest assessment of Levi I've ever seen!

 

And wouldnt you say that if he came in and competed and COULD take playing time away from them, then it would be better to have him around since he would therefore be an upgrade?

Elam and Benford are second year DBs who both saw limited playing time last year for varying reasons.  Elam, it seems, was still getting acclimated to playing zone, and Benford had injury issues.

Yes, I want both of them to see as much PT as possible bc I view both of them as having much higher ceilings than Wallace who was average in Leslie Frazier’s scheme.  Let’s develop our young talent.

[Freddie's Dead]

Levi was the only guy who stood up and took some responsibility for 13 seconds.  Everybody else dove for cover.  He can play on my team any time.

[BarleyNY]

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

When did he have his touch? 🤣

 

Jokes aside, because I do believe part of Levi's "struggles" were based on how our Defensive system pushes the ball to the #2 option, I'd welcome him back for depth. He's a better CB5 option than Jamarcus Ingram or Kyler McMichael. Especially once the injury bugs start biting.

 

White

Elam

(Johnson)

Benford

Dane Jackson

Wallace

(Lewis/Neal)

 

Nice looking group imo.

 

I agree. If cut he’d be a FA, no waivers (unless after the trade deadline). So if he’s cheap I’m absolutely in. He’d be very nice depth and the familiarity he has with our system and the coaches have with him is important. 

[Momma Pecoraro]

33 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Levi was the only guy who stood up and took some responsibility for 13 seconds.  Everybody else dove for cover.  He can play on my team any time.

As long as your team is the Lackawanna Lions.

[NoSaint]

4 hours ago, Logic said:

Well, that's the thing with Levi: He's good enough -- provided he's in the right system -- to be a dependable starter.

But he's also a guy you're perpetually going to be thinking you can upgrade from. I think the Bills feel that they've done so with Elam/Benford/Jackson opposite Tre. I'm betting the Steelers went into the offseason with a goal of doing so, as well.

Wallace will have a long career in this league, but he's never going to be a star or a big money guy.

IF he gets cut -- which I doubt -- and wants to come play here for vet minimum, then great. Probably not gonna happen.

he’s a fitz of corners. He has a role in the league but you never want him to be a cornerstone piece. He could start on a handful of teams but they may prefer giving reps to a guy with upside and as you note always seeking to upgrade him. As a package player he’s good and about as solid as anyone stepping in if there’s an injury or two. 
 

I don’t see him coming to be a 5th DB but we could do worse at 4 if there’s an injury or position swap 

[Paup 1995MVP]

4 hours ago, Logic said:

Well, that's the thing with Levi: He's good enough -- provided he's in the right system -- to be a dependable starter.

But he's also a guy you're perpetually going to be thinking you can upgrade from. I think the Bills feel that they've done so with Elam/Benford/Jackson opposite Tre. I'm betting the Steelers went into the offseason with a goal of doing so, as well.

Wallace will have a long career in this league, but he's never going to be a star or a big money guy.

IF he gets cut -- which I doubt -- and wants to come play here for vet minimum, then great. Probably not gonna happen.

You talk about him like he is just getting started in the league.  He has been around awhile and has been abused plenty.  He isn't going to get any faster and twitchier as he ages.  If you want to be a Super Bowl contender its tough having guys like Levi Wallace fill out your roster.  I hope the same is not true of Spencer Brown.  

[Back2Buff]

Honestly, there were times when I wished we had him last year.  I think he is better than Dane.  

[billsbackto81]

I can't get the picture out of my mind.

 

Seeing him play Kelce 10 yards off the LOS protecting the sideline for a 10 yard out when they need 25 yards to get in FG range! 

 

Good riddance to him and Frazier!!

[BillsFanForever19]

I mean, unless we're for sure moving Christian Benford to Safety - there really isn't a place for him here anymore. 

 

We generally keep 6 CB's on the 53, 4 Outside and 2 Nickel, and they're pretty much set in stone right now with:

 

Tre'Davious White

Kaiir Elam

Taron Johnson (Nickel)

Dane Jackson

Christian Benford

Siran Neal (Nickel)

 

Even moving Benford to Safety creates a bit of a logjam there as we generally keep 4 there. And we have 4 already there with:

 

Micah Hyde

Jordan Poyer

Taylor Rapp

Damar Hamlin

 

Long story short, I think the Secondary as a whole is one of the deepest positions we have and is probably set. If we were to bring him in, we'd have to be keeping 11 in the secondary - as I don't see any of the players listed above being released. 

 

And also, he'd be depth and not getting much play time. So I'd imagine he'd want to go to other teams first, if he has any other options.

[John from Riverside]

The new Levi Wallace is Alex Austin

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

He’s not bad depth actually. Don’t understand the hate. 

[Mr. WEO]

Fans can never let go….

 

Bring every bum back!  Camp arm!!

[longtimebillsfan]

7 hours ago, boyst said:

Levi Wallce is buried behind Patrick Peterson and once projected starter Ahkello Witherspoon. Joey Porter, Jr. comes in with lots of fanfare and will be shoved down everyone's throats Tevon Diggs style, while fellow rookkie Cory Trice is also in Pittsburgh.

 

He is owed $5.5mm while a hit of only $1.5mm.

 

If he was cut should we consider bringing him back to Buffalo as a depth CB behind White, Elam, Jackson and Benford (who maybe moving to safety?).

I was never a huge Levi Wallace fan.  He would get picked on by top level qb's and could not handle that kind of pressure.

 

Let's wish him well, thank  him for his service, and move on.  No reason to take a step backwards.

[Maine-iac]

Everywhere he goes they try to start other players and yet every team he has played for, by the end of the season, he's starting.  I would hope Elam and Benford are on track to compete for a starting spot and I hope White is back to himself and has the other starting outside spot locked up.  As we've seen though, by the end of the season you might need a guy like Wallace.  Just because of his size I'd rather have Wallace starting outside than Dane in an injury situation.

[billybrew1]

I think the Bills know how to draft corners and that we will be good at corner this year. Of course, we have to hope Tre White makes it most of the way back. Maybe he’ll be even better at some things though? I love Elam and hope the team uses him correctly this year and that he kicks ass. Benford is an excellent prospect.  Dane is a cool 4th or fifth option for sure. We drafted a corner…

We’re good at corner, imho.

[BillsFanForever19]

10 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

When did he have his touch? 🤣

 

Jokes aside, because I do believe part of Levi's "struggles" were based on how our Defensive system pushes the ball to the #2 option, I'd welcome him back for depth. He's a better CB5 option than Jamarcus Ingram or Kyler McMichael. Especially once the injury bugs start biting.

 

White

Elam

(Johnson)

Benford

Dane Jackson

Wallace

(Lewis/Neal)

 

Nice looking group imo.

 

You're talking about Outside CB 5 as if it's a sure thing. Is it impossible we carry 7 CB's? No. But the magic number is usually 6 CB's on the 53, period. 4 Outside, 2 Nickel. Ingram or McMichael were never making this squad.

[Sharky7337]

10 hours ago, boyst said:

Levi Wallce is buried behind Patrick Peterson and once projected starter Ahkello Witherspoon. Joey Porter, Jr. comes in with lots of fanfare and will be shoved down everyone's throats Tevon Diggs style, while fellow rookkie Cory Trice is also in Pittsburgh.

 

He is owed $5.5mm while a hit of only $1.5mm.

 

If he was cut should we consider bringing him back to Buffalo as a depth CB behind White, Elam, Jackson and Benford (who maybe moving to safety?).

Go re watch the 13 second game and then re think this post.

[boyst]

11 minutes ago, Sharky7337 said:

Go re watch the 13 second game and then re think this post.

... I know a lot about that 13 seconds and more specifically about the 2 months after it to know Wallace wasn't the biggest takeaway anyone should have about this team and how that game went down. 😉

[Stuartjohn]

11 hours ago, boyst said:

Levi Wallce is buried behind Patrick Peterson and once projected starter Ahkello Witherspoon. Joey Porter, Jr. comes in with lots of fanfare and will be shoved down everyone's throats Tevon Diggs style, while fellow rookkie Cory Trice is also in Pittsburgh.

 

He is owed $5.5mm while a hit of only $1.5mm.

 

If he was cut should we consider bringing him back to Buffalo as a depth CB behind White, Elam, Jackson and Benford (who maybe moving to safety?).

 

10 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

and where exactly does it say that was 36th in the nfl? 

No he was to blame for 13 seconds!!

[DCofNC]

10 hours ago, MJS said:

They brought in vet corners in free agency as well.

Yeah… and he kept the job.  I don’t love him, but the guy continued to prove people wrong and even when he is not in this system, he’s done just fine.  He’s an acceptable starter and a great CB3.   He’s essentially a less instinctive Tre White, athletically speaking.  The only real issue is awareness when the ball is in the air, not an uncommon problem. He’s not elite, but I would gladly take him back.

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, Stuartjohn said:

 

No he was to blame for 13 seconds!!

 

Nope, that is 100% on coaching. They are ultimately responsible. They dropped the ball multiple times in a matter of 13 seconds.

[Sierra Foothills]

11 hours ago, boyst said:

Levi Wallace is buried behind Patrick Peterson and once projected starter Ahkello Witherspoon. Joey Porter, Jr. comes in with lots of fanfare and will be shoved down everyone's throats Tevon Diggs style, while fellow rookkie Cory Trice is also in Pittsburgh.

 

He is owed $5.5mm while a hit of only $1.5mm.

 

If he was cut should we consider bringing him back to Buffalo as a depth CB behind White, Elam, Jackson and Benford (who maybe moving to safety?).

 

Fair question. Well-constructed post.

 

10 hours ago, streetkings01 said:

He’s one of those players that only fits our system.

 

Tre White was starting to be used in press coverage more frequently before his injury. Elam is a press corner too. I believe that the transition from Frazier to McDermott will include the Bills playing less off coverage.

 

10 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

That isn't that bad and it is better than Tre White was last year. 

 

I wouldn't bring Levi back to start, but if they want to bring him back as depth to fight for a spot I wouldn't hate it. 

 

10 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

When did he have his touch? 🤣

 

Jokes aside, because I do believe part of Levi's "struggles" were based on how our Defensive system pushes the ball to the #2 option, I'd welcome him back for depth. He's a better CB5 option than Jamarcus Ingram or Kyler McMichael. Especially once the injury bugs start biting.

 

White

Elam

(Johnson)

Benford

Dane Jackson

Wallace

(Lewis/Neal)

 

Nice looking group imo.

 

If he came back for the veteran minimum I'd be fine with it but I doubt Levi would think that coming back to Buffalo as a depth player would be a good career decision.

 

10 hours ago, FireChans said:

I mean I guess you could call old legs Josh Norman a "replacement" attempt, but a 1 year deal for a known quantity in the McD defense is just as much a depth signing.

 

There were other replacement attempts... Kevin Johnson, Vontae Davis, Phillip Gaines if I recall correctly.

 

[PrimeTime101]

58 minutes ago, Stuartjohn said:

 

No he was to blame for 13 seconds!!

again i ask, you said he was ranked 36th.. where did you see that?

[Doc Brown]

8 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Levi was the only guy who stood up and took some responsibility for 13 seconds.  Everybody else dove for cover.  He can play on my team any time.

After he left for the Steelers.  I swear McDermott had the team go all Fight Club after the game in "the first rule about 13 seconds is we don't talk about 13 seconds."  

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

There were other replacement attempts... Kevin Johnson, Vontae Davis, Phillip Gaines if I recall correctly.

 

 

That isn't quite right. Gaines and Davis were brought in as FAs in 2018 before Wallace was signed as an UDFA after that year's draft. Davis retired in game 2 and Gaines got first shot at replacing him, sucked, and that is when Levi first got his shot. Levi replaced them. Not the other way around. 

 

Kevin Johnson came the next year. He was a 1 year $3m deal and was definitely brought into compete. Maybe they thought he'd flat beat Levi out, but he didn't though at times in the season they job shared. Then in 2020 came Josh Norman. It was really only those two guys who might have been efforts to replace Levi. He beat them both out and then held off the challenge from Dane Jackson in 2021.

[boyst]

8 hours ago, Stuartjohn said:

 

No he was to blame for 13 seconds!!

you need to read up on that around here.

 

it is a dead horse of a topic but he was one of the symptoms not the problem.

8 hours ago, Stuartjohn said:

 

No he was to blame for 13 seconds!!

you need to read up on that around here.

 

it is a dead horse of a topic but he was one of the symptoms not the problem.

[Sierra Foothills]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That isn't quite right. Gaines and Davis were brought in as FAs in 2018 before Wallace was signed as an UDFA after that year's draft. Davis retired in game 2 and Gaines got first shot at replacing him, sucked, and that is when Levi first got his shot. Levi replaced them. Not the other way around. 

 

Kevin Johnson came the next year. He was a 1 year $3m deal and was definitely brought into compete. Maybe they thought he'd flat beat Levi out, but he didn't though at times in the season they job shared. Then in 2020 came Josh Norman. It was really only those two guys who might have been efforts to replace Levi. He beat them both out and then held off the challenge from Dane Jackson in 2021.

 

All true but same general idea... as an undrafted free agent Levi wasn't supposed to be a 4 year starter for the Bills.

 

He was never supposed to be the guy.

 

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

All true but same general idea... as an undrafted free agent Levi wasn't supposed to be a 4 year starter for the Bills.

 

He was never supposed to be the guy.

 

Correct. But we are not talking about him coming back to be a starter either.

[wppete]

Yes if he is cut bring him back just like Shaq and Big Phil…. Levi excelled in Buffalo. 

[boyst]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Correct. But we are not talking about him coming back to be a starter either.

What's crazy is that I could see him starting if he came here in 2023 the Elam was inconsistent and how sophomore slumps go, then Dane Jackson being no different than Jackson (though the Bills have been grooming him to be a contributer)

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

IF he gets cut and IF he wants to come here for near vet minimum then sure. No reason not to bring him back as a depth guy.

 

Those are pretty big IFs though. 

[Utah John]

Levi was among those banished for the 13 second debacle.  The special teams coach that didn't call for a squib kickoff.  Levi for stupidly guarding the sidelines even though the Chiefs had 3 timeouts left and did not need to use the sidelines.  

 

Some people who shared responsibility were essentially too big to fail -- too important to cut.  McDermott, Frazier, Edmunds.  But a marginal CB?  C-ya.

[boyst]

3 minutes ago, Utah John said:

Levi was among those banished for the 13 second debacle.  The special teams coach that didn't call for a squib kickoff.  Levi for stupidly guarding the sidelines even though the Chiefs had 3 timeouts left and did not need to use the sidelines.  

 

Some people who shared responsibility were essentially too big to fail -- too important to cut.  McDermott, Frazier, Edmunds.  But a marginal CB?  C-ya.

the ST coach called the squib is what we all understood; the word never got to the kicker to kick a squib and there was blame on McD for that.

[DrDawkinstein]

12 minutes ago, Utah John said:

Levi was among those banished for the 13 second debacle.

 

He had an offer on the table that was pretty close to the Steelers before he saw he was wearing black & yellow shorts and made his decision. Had Beane not been jerked around by McKissic, he would have countered the Steelers offer and re-signed Wallace. Your idea he was "banished" is not accurate.

[Thurman#1]

14 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Nope, that is 100% on coaching. They are ultimately responsible. They dropped the ball multiple times in a matter of 13 seconds.

 

 

Levi made it very plain that the coaching was not to blame, that the communication between himself and Poyer was to blame for that play.

 

And nobody has come out and said it, but it sure looks like Farwell being let go tells us who it was who broke the chain in getting the word to the kicker on that kickoff that wasn't a squib. 

 

That and Cheetah, Kelce and Mahomes being the best in football at that time and playing at the top of their abilities. Nobody blames the KC defense for not being able to stop Allen on those last three or four drives, even when there was virtually no time. Nor should they. The coaches sure get their share of the responsibility, but the players on both sides also should be blamed. Not to mention that coin. If it falls tails, Buffalo wins that game, there's zero doubt in my mind.

 

Again, they get their share of the blame, but putting it on them 100% says more about you than it does about what actually happened.

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

All true but same general idea... as an undrafted free agent Levi wasn't supposed to be a 4 year starter for the Bills.

 

He was never supposed to be the guy.

 

 

 

There's not really a thing about who is supposed to be the guy. Whoever plays best, that's who's supposed to be the guy.

5 hours ago, boyst said:

you need to read up on that around here.

 

it is a dead horse of a topic but he was one of the symptoms not the problem.

 

 

 

It is indeed a bit of a dead horse. But he was more than a symptom. He himself has said that they called the coaches called the right play, and that the communication between Poyer and Wallace didn't work in the moment.

[DrDawkinstein]

7 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Again, they get their share of the blame, but putting it on them 100% says more about you than it does about what actually happened.

 

Yes, it says I know how Leadership and Accountability works. Thank you!

Just now, Thurman#1 said:

But he was more than a symptom. He himself has said that they called the coaches called the right play, and that the communication between Poyer and Wallace didn't work in the moment.

 

You understand that is him taking ownership of his part in it, which is the right thing to do. And because his other option is to throw everyone else under the bus and he may need them for a job someday. This is what he's supposed to say, and good on him. But it isnt all on him. The coaches failed their players.

[Thurman#1]

On 5/11/2023 at 12:33 AM, boyst said:

Levi Wallce is buried behind Patrick Peterson and once projected starter Ahkello Witherspoon. Joey Porter, Jr. comes in with lots of fanfare and will be shoved down everyone's throats Tevon Diggs style, while fellow rookkie Cory Trice is also in Pittsburgh.

 

He is owed $5.5mm while a hit of only $1.5mm.

 

If he was cut should we consider bringing him back to Buffalo as a depth CB behind White, Elam, Jackson and Benford (who maybe moving to safety?).

 

 

You're misstating the numbers a bit there.

 

The $1.5M is dead cap, not cap hit. And dead cap doesn't matter to us, as it's the Steelers who gave him that signing bonus.

 

And he's not owed $5.5, that's cap hit. His salary will be $4M. That's what the Bills would have to pay.

 

In their current financial state, I don't see them paying him that to be a backup. 

[Thurman#1]

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Yes, it says I know how Leadership and Accountability works. Thank you!

 

You understand that is him taking ownership of his part in it, which is the right thing to do. And because his other option is to throw everyone else under the bus and he may need them for a job someday. This is what he's supposed to say, and good on him. But it isnt all on him. The coaches failed their players.

 

 

That's absolute nonsense. Wallace didn't have two options. He had thousands. Here's one: "No comment." Here's another: "That's not for me to say." Here's another: "Well, everyone on that field gave 110% in that game and I still consider them all my brothers and yadda yadda yadda."

 

Instead he went far into depth explaining exactly and precisely why the fault for that play was not on the coaches but on the communication between he and Poyer.

 

And you may "know how Leadership and Accountability work," but you're the one who said it's 100% on the coaches. That would seem to indicate that assuming you do know how it works, you weren't using what you know when you said that. Yeah, they should take responsibility. But no, nobody who wants to figure out what really happened should just say it was 100% on the coaches. It wasn't. They deserve their share, but there was plenty to go around.

 

It isn't all on Wallace either? Yeah, very correct. That's why I didn't say it was all on him. I said the problem on that play was the communication between he and Poyer as he said, but that there was plenty of blame to go around including ... well, I already wrote it once, no need to do so again.

 

I really respect Levi, wish him the best, and wouldn't mind if he ended up back here at some point if the money works out.

[boyst]

14 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

You're misstating the numbers a bit there.

 

The $1.5M is dead cap, not cap hit. And dead cap doesn't matter to us, as it's the Steelers who gave him that signing bonus.

 

And he's not owed $5.5, that's cap hit. His salary will be $4M. That's what the Bills would have to pay.

 

In their current financial state, I don't see them paying him that to be a backup. 

still to this point, the steelers could benefit cutting him for cap reasons.

 

and the other statement you made is about his integrity - he was honest and forward with what happened. i respect the hell out of that