RT in First Round

[RunTheBall]

I’d keep Brown at RT for another season. Dorsey has a specific play called the Brown Turnstile. That’s where Spencer gets smoked immediately so Josh rolls right and throws bombs. We see it often. 

[OldTimer1960]

1 hour ago, QLBillsFan said:

Outside of LB the Bills greatest need is RT. I’ve been a big SB fan but last year he fell back. BB has mentioned his injury and lack of prep leading into the season. Also blocking in the NFL vs at NI is an adjustment. All that is true but just bringing in a vet to compete isn’t enough. Our QB is Josh Allen let’s continue to improve around him. Harrison from Oklahoma or Jones from Ohio State in the 1st. If SB wins the job great but most likely he become the back up. What do you all think ? 

I think you consider it, if the draft pick could also play OG if Spencer Brown plays well.  I don’t think you could realistically move Brown inside, but some of the OTs could move inside - like Mauch.

[NewEra]

18 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

It's so tough to count on a possible trade down, but if there was ever a year that Beane could swing it, this is that year.

No doubt.  This is the year.  That 5th year option could be intriguing enough for a team to make a move! 🙏🏻 

[BigAl2526]

I haven't given up on Spencer Brown mostly because injury issues have delayed his development.  I'm not against taking an offensive tackle in the first round.  There may be one or two who would be a fit for the Bills.  There are some offensive tackles in the draft who are short enough to slide inside too. 

[PrimeTime101]

1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Not happening. This regime, going back to Carolina has never done that. It’s the best path to being mediocre. 

This comment lacks knowledge and adds just plain stupid to the conversation. 

McD. was not a HC in Carolina nor did he have anything close to a last say of what their picks would be.

 

McD was a DC in Carolina during the years of 2011-2016. 2011 Carolina got a dude named Cam Newton. 2012 they got Luke Kuechly. So they get their QB on each side of the field like we did...  During this time, they had the team set up for running so their Offensive line was already good. In Short... to poster child McD and his habits as a DC going back to Carolina is silly.  

 

How much of a say as DC do you think McD had on the offensive side of the field instead of defense in his years as DC in Carolina?

 

just stop..

[jahnyc]

Given the cost of quality OTs in free agency and our need to upgrade the o-line, I think tackle (or WR) would potentially make sense in the first round of the draft.  OT will make even more sense in next year's draft since both Dawkins and Brown will be free agents after the '24 season.

[CEN-CAL17]

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

I think Trenton Simpson is more likely the pick at 27 to replace Tremaine unless maybe Dalton Kincaid or a wr they covet falls to them. Round two is the more likely spot to grab a RT. I've been pushing for Matthew Bergeron -- seems to my mostly uneducated eye that he has some positional flexibility, so G and RT are possibilities.

I’m thinking along the same lines… but Drew Sanders MLB Arkansas if he’s there. Better overall athlete compared to Simpson. Yes Nick Saban tried to make him a DE (dumb) cause this kid was one of the top athlete recruits at QB, WR and MLB. Plays 1 year at MLB at Arkansas and showed huge upside. Sanders can play all over the field, and I think as a rookie might be better at rushing the passer/blitzing than Tremaine.

 

 

[freddyjj]

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

I think Trenton Simpson is more likely the pick at 27 to replace Tremaine unless maybe Dalton Kincaid or a wr they covet falls to them. Round two is the more likely spot to grab a RT. I've been pushing for Matthew Bergeron -- seems to my mostly uneducated eye that he has some positional flexibility, so G and RT are possibilities.

He meets the physical freak aspect OBD loves but his stack, run fill and coverage abilities are very lacking per Draft Buzz

 

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Trenton-Simpson-LB-Clemson

[3rdand12]

59 minutes ago, LEBills said:

It’s the only RT we have on the roster so it makes sense that he is giving him a vote of confidence. But I think the Bernard pick last year shows they are ok letting a 3rd round pick be a backup. Hopefully that means they bring in someone good to let Brown compete with and either win it or sit on the bench. I think they will draft an OT early this year because we don’t have a ton of money to spend on a FA tackle to give that competition but that is maybe the optimist in me

I have mentioned they need a swing Tackle.
Never been a fan of a player who plays guard and Tackle. They are/have physically different needs to be successful
I would take an elite guard at 27 if he was a starter for long term regardless of Non Value

 Its a sore need even with Bates and Connor. But not going to be one there. Bills are in a tough spot draft wise this year.
Swing Tackle to push and cover Brown. Not sure where Tommy Doyle fits in all this.

Dont see tackle at 27 either, for reasons mentioned. Including Beane's hopeful comments about Spencer

55 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

It's so tough to count on a possible trade down, but if there was ever a year that Beane could swing it, this is that year.

understatement to say the least !

[Matt_In_NH]

2 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Not happening. This regime, going back to Carolina has never done that. It’s the best path to being mediocre. 

 

You think the Bills are mediocre?

[Dr. Who]

5 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

He meets the physical freak aspect OBD loves but his stack, run fill and coverage abilities are very lacking per Draft Buzz

 

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Trenton-Simpson-LB-Clemson

Just throwing out a plausible name. Fella above your post suggests Drew Sanders. Whether it is the correct draft strategy or not, I suspect that is the direction OBD is inclined to pursue.

[freddyjj]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Just throwing out a plausible name. Fella above your post suggests Drew Sanders. Whether it is the correct draft strategy or not, I suspect that is the direction OBD is inclined to pursue.

Yes thx.  I have heard national draft pundits question Simpson’s instincts- and we have already seen how that worked out with Edmunds. 

[Dr. Who]

2 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

 

You think the Bills are mediocre?

How in the world do you get that meaning from what MrEpsYtown wrote? Drafting RT (or any position of need) in the first round regardless of whether it is a prudent expenditure of draft capital at that spot is what leads to mediocrity. It's the strategy involved that is basis of critique. It says nothing about drafting a RT or valuing the oline. In fact, the fella you are quoting is one of the best on this board at analyzing oline talent, imo.

[Coach Tuesday]

8 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

 

You think the Bills are mediocre?

Just terrible reading comprehension there.

[OldTimer1960]

12 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Yes thx.  I have heard national draft pundits question Simpson’s instincts- and we have already seen how that worked out with Edmunds. 

I dunno, Chicago just paid $18M/year for Edmunds and his lack of instincts.  Edmunds was very young when he came into the league (20).  Heck Edmunds is just 25 now after 5 yes in the league- there are guys in this draft that are 24 as rookies (John Michael Schmitz, for example).

 

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, MWK said:

Beane loves Spencer Brown. He shouldn’t but he does. He has made every excuse in the book for him, from injuries to not playing 3 years ago because of COVID. People shouldn’t expect Beane to get anything besides nominal competition for him. Brown will be our starting RT, and we won’t draft OL until round 3 at the earliest because he doesn’t value it. I really hope I’m wrong.

Beane loves ALL of his draft picks!! Seems to be the reason he holds on to them so long. Cody Ford, Tommy Sweeney. Even Epenesa and Basham. I feel that he will do the same with Bernard. Mistakes are made by many teams in the draft, but Beane doesn't like to admit them

[freddyjj]

Just now, OldTimer1960 said:

I dunno, Chicago just paid $18M/year for Edmunds and his lack of instincts.  Edmunds was very young when he came into the league (20).  Heck Edmunds is just 25 now after 5 yes in the league- there are guys in this draft that are 24 as rookies (John Michael Schmitz, for example).

 

Gotcha.  I just want our next MLB not to bite on play action or misdirection as much and to hit the right hole more often on run reads.  

[TheyCallMeAndy]

2 hours ago, Beast said:

The Bills are on the path to being mediocre now, huh?

 

This place is unreal.

He’s saying drafting a RT at 27 is the path to mediocrity. 

[mrags]

Just now, freddyjj said:

Gotcha.  I just want our next MLB not to bite on play action or misdirection as much and to hit the right hole more often on run reads.  

I’m with you. Unfortunately I don’t think Sanders, Campbell, or Simpson meet any if that. Sanders and Simpson seem a little light for MLB imo. Campbell hits in size but I keep hearing knocks on his willingness to be aggressive and attack the LOS and ball carriers. The last thing we need is an undersized MLB, or another one that is reactive. 
 

personally I like Noah Sewell. He hits in size, speed, aggressiveness, his father coached him and his brother plays in the league, along with 2 other brothers that play college ball. Which tells me that he has a familiarity with the nfl game and has been coached properly throughout his life to this point. He would have been a much higher draft pick than 4th round or after but he had a down year apparently. But he’s still only 20 years old and would be considered the most powerful LB in the draft. 

[ArtVandalay]

2 hours ago, QLBillsFan said:

Outside of LB the Bills greatest need is RT. I’ve been a big SB fan but last year he fell back. BB has mentioned his injury and lack of prep leading into the season. Also blocking in the NFL vs at NI is an adjustment. All that is true but just bringing in a vet to compete isn’t enough. Our QB is Josh Allen let’s continue to improve around him. Harrison from Oklahoma or Jones from Ohio State in the 1st. If SB wins the job great but most likely he become the back up. What do you all think ? 

You think this front office is going to spend a first rounder on offense for the first time in Josh Allen's career? Hahaha... get ready for a LB or defensive Lineman. 

 

I mean eventually they have to draft an offensive player (other than Allen himself) in the first round, right? Maybe this is the year...

Edited March 19, 2023 by ArtVandalay

[TheyCallMeAndy]

There are 2 things I feel pretty confident on:

 

Bills will not go OT in round one unless someone falls and it’s crazy value.

 

If Bernard isn’t the plan at MLB, then we likely see more 3 LB looks in 2023. I highly doubt they’ve given up on him like 90% of this board has. 
 

I still think WR or Safety is much more likely, again unless the team plans to play 3 LBers more. 

Just now, ArtVandalay said:

You think this front office is going to spend a first rounder on offense for the first time in Josh Allen's career? Hahaha... get ready for a LB or defensive Lineman. 

WR is more likely IMO. Davis is inconsistent and Diggs is going into his age 29 season. 

[Floydboy12]

I think the tackle from Oklahoma might be an option in round one. Seems to be very good in pass protection. Feels like one of the top LB’ers may still be available in round 2. Henley from Washington State would give the Bills

2 heat seekers at the LB position. 

[Motorin']

Just now, ScottLaw said:

If they go into the draft with Bernard and Dodson as their LBs they are drafting one in the 1st or 2nd round. No question. 

 

Agreed, but it doesn't seem like a McBean thing to do. 

 

It would be a bit surprising if they don't sign a vet with at least starting experience at Mike. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

If they go into the draft with Bernard and Dodson as their LBs they are drafting one in the 1st or 2nd round. No question. 

There is a question.

 

That pick makes no sense if they burned a top 100 draft pick on a guy who will be the primary backup LB. Beane drafted him with a plan, I doubt the plan was career depth and special teams. 
 

The 2023 plan at LB will be a heavily discussed and debated topic this summer.

 

Maybe 2023 is the season they move away from the 4-2-5 and start playing more 4-3 than they have the last few years. Then adding a MLB makes sense and Bernard is the other OLB. 
 

[ColoradoBills]

7 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

There is a question.

 

That pick makes no sense if they burned a top 100 draft pick on a guy who will be the primary backup LB. Beane drafted him with a plan, I doubt the plan was career depth and special teams. 
 

The 2023 plan at LB will be a heavily discussed and debated topic this summer.

 

Maybe 2023 is the season they move away from the 4-2-5 and start playing more 4-3 than they have the last few years. Then adding a MLB makes sense and Bernard is the other OLB. 
 

 

I'll repeat that the only thing that makes sense about the Bernard pick is if he gets on the field as some sort of answer to opposing teams TEs.

It would mean a totally hybrid D but that is all I got.  I have a slim hope that is one of the reasons McD is taking over the D this year.

[MrEpsYtown]

1 hour ago, PrimeTime101 said:

This comment lacks knowledge and adds just plain stupid to the conversation. 

McD. was not a HC in Carolina nor did he have anything close to a last say of what their picks would be.

 

McD was a DC in Carolina during the years of 2011-2016. 2011 Carolina got a dude named Cam Newton. 2012 they got Luke Kuechly. So they get their QB on each side of the field like we did...  During this time, they had the team set up for running so their Offensive line was already good. In Short... to poster child McD and his habits as a DC going back to Carolina is silly.  

 

How much of a say as DC do you think McD had on the offensive side of the field instead of defense in his years as DC in Carolina?

 

just stop..

You could not possibly be more wrong man. You want to talk about knowledge? I’m talking about facts. I’m not going be a child and say “stupid” but here’s a lesson…..
 

First you are ignoring the fact that Brandon Beane was the director of football operations and assistant GM there. You think he had no influence on the draft?
 

Fact….if you go back from 2000 to 2022 the Panthers drafted a first round linemen 3 times. In 2003 the Panthers draft LT Jordan Gross. In 2022 the draft LT Ewonu. In that 22 year span they used one 1st round pick on a non LT ONE time and he was a left tackle they moved to the right side. They draft Jeff Otah who they trade up for as a second first round pick after taking Jonathan Stewart earlier. Otah winds up being one of the biggest busts in NFL history and only plays in 29 games. 
 

Beane starts working as director of football operations in 2008, so let’s take it from there for positions they draft in the first round. Here is some factual information:

 

2008: RB, LT (Otah they moved to right)

2009: they dont have a first because the Otah trade, they draft Edge in 2nd. 

2010: they trade down and take QB Jimmy Clausen

2011: QB Cam Newton

2012: LB

2013: DT

2014: WR

2015: LB

2016: DT

2017: RB

 

Any of this look familiar? To think these guys didn’t learn their draft philosophies from their previous stop ludicrous. Obviously, the Bills have not drafted any OL in the first and their highest drafted OL is their 2nd round LT Dion Dawkins who was drafted before Beane got here. (Edit Ford was drafted higher but not here anymore and terrible.)
 

Just to add, Cam’s line was not set when he got there. It was made up of Gross (who retired after 2013) 2nd round pick Ryan Khalil, and Otah (Otah only played 4 games with Cam). Then a bunch of later drafted guys and UDFAs. The only first round pick OL starter on their Super Bowl team was Michael Oher who was a left tackle and drafted by another team. 

 

So again, these guys aren’t drafting a RT or IOL in the first round unless a generational talent falls in their lap. In the 25 years that Beane has had real power and say, it was done once and it was a massive mistake. 
 

Whether it worked or any of us agree with them is irrelevant. I am stating, based on fact, that this is how they run things and the data supports that. 

 

Edited March 19, 2023 by MrEpsYtown
Cody Ford was drafted higher than Dion, but not here anymore and also a massive mistake.

[Sweet Lou]

2 hours ago, Simon said:

 

And I don't think he will ever be a quality NFL Tackle.

So that creates a bit of a problem....

Could Brown be switched to another role perhaps?  Possible TE?  or maybe DT?

[aristocrat]

All for it. Build Allen the eagles o line and we will dominate and everyone else will try and play defense. O line and d tackle as we have dbs for days

[balln]

2 hours ago, MWK said:

Beane loves Spencer Brown. He shouldn’t but he does. He has made every excuse in the book for him, from injuries to not playing 3 years ago because of COVID. People shouldn’t expect Beane to get anything besides nominal competition for him. Brown will be our starting RT, and we won’t draft OL until round 3 at the earliest because he doesn’t value it. I really hope I’m wrong.

thats this regimes biggest weakness. they target pre draft who they love. and they dont stray. even after 2-3 years of abysmal play (see cody ford). theyre far too married too their players. need to be harsh/cut throat. move on. shrewd

[TheyCallMeAndy]

10 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I'll repeat that the only thing that makes sense about the Bernard pick is if he gets on the field as some sort of answer to opposing teams TEs.

It would mean a totally hybrid D but that is all I got.  I have a slim hope that is one of the reasons McD is taking over the D this year.

I mean he’s not talentless. His strengths coming out of college were instincts, great athleticism, and experience in coverage. Cons were size and issues tackling/taking on blockers due to his size. Sound familiar? 
 

He was projected 5th that we took in the 3rd. He struggled in his first game with what he was reading, leading to issues that are documented.

 

My reasoning for trust is in the GM who scouted and selected him. I’m hoping Bernard comes through

[MrEpsYtown]

Just now, aristocrat said:

All for it. Build Allen the eagles o line and we will dominate and everyone else will try and play defense. O line and d tackle as we have dbs for days

But that doesn’t have to be in the first round. 
 

Lane Johnson was a top 5 pick in a quarterback-less draft. 
 

The rest? 
LT 7th round

LG 2nd round

C 6th round

RG 3rd round

 

Find good players who fit your scheme. Aside from that terrible Andre Dillard pick and Danny Watkins, both terrible busts in the first round, the Eagles have spent draft capital on their defensive line men and WRs. 

[balln]

29 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I'll repeat that the only thing that makes sense about the Bernard pick is if he gets on the field as some sort of answer to opposing teams TEs.

It would mean a totally hybrid D but that is all I got.  I have a slim hope that is one of the reasons McD is taking over the D this year.

prob is the good teams will just pound the ROCK if hes on the field. SEE @ jets game. Oh my god they pounded Buff D like a piece of meat for that final game winning drive. or even the last two drives.

[Virgil]

I very much agree with taking an OT with the first pick and I’d be okay with two in the first 3 rounds.  
 

Giving Josh an extra second to throw is the best off-season we can hope for.  If Brown or Morse fall off in production or injury, we can’t afford a drop off with backups.   This alone will allow for better production from our current receivers 
 

For me, it’s OT, OT, MLB.  After that, depth at Safety and a WR.  

[Mr. WEO]

can you imagine what would happen here if they blew a 1st round pick on RT? 

[MrEpsYtown]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

can you imagine what would happen here if they blew a 1st round pick on RT? 

I would live with it, but man that would suck. 

[balln]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

can you imagine what would happen here if they blew a 1st round pick on RT? 

if he turns out to be ALL pro.... its a crap shoot. 

if the value is there  - i can get behind spencer brown and tommy doyle coming in as extra OT in jumbo and playing swing tackles. 

[OldTimer1960]

8 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I very much agree with taking an OT with the first pick and I’d be okay with two in the first 3 rounds.  
 

Giving Josh an extra second to throw is the best off-season we can hope for.  If Brown or Morse fall off in production or injury, we can’t afford a drop off with backups.   This alone will allow for better production from our current receivers 
 

For me, it’s OT, OT, MLB.  After that, depth at Safety and a WR.  

Exactly, helping the pass blocking gives receivers a bit more time to get open and Allen a bit more time to find them.

 

Helping run blocking forces defenses to respect the run more which will make it easier for receivers to get open, slow down the pass rush, etc.

 

Offense is a system, you can improve the whole thing by making improvements in certain areas.

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, balln said:

if he turns out to be ALL pro.... its a crap shoot. 

if the value is there  - i can get behind spencer brown and tommy doyle coming in as extra OT in jumbo and playing swing tackles. 

 

 

well, yes....any 1st round pick that becomes "All Pro" would be a good pick.   The odds are very low..

 

 

 

[TheBeaneBandit]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

can you imagine what would happen here if they blew a 1st round pick on RT? 

What about a RT who could play the left in a year or two? That's something to consider imo.

[OldTimer1960]

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

can you imagine what would happen here if they blew a 1st round pick on RT? 

See the thing is, if we believe in "positional value" (and I do, but not as an absolute), then the only positions worthy of a 1st round pick are QB, WR, LT, Edge rusher and CB.  But, what if you either don't need those positions or there isn't a good player at those positions when you pick comes?

 

For sure, if there are equivalent players at a number of positions and you have needs at those positions, then by all means draft one of the highest value positions.  On the flip side, if neither of the above are true, then you are left with either forcing a pick on a player that you either don't need or one who isn't as good as the players available at other positions.  

 

I think there have to be scenarios where you could draft a "lesser position" and have it make sense.  Indeed, every year some teams do just that and I don't think that every team that drafts a lesser position in round 1 is "just stupid".