Isaac Seumalo, G, **Update - Signed by Steelers

[Virgil]

From my understanding, he's able to play both G and C, maybe a little smaller, but great pass protection and the Eagles ran the ball very successfully.  Talked to an Eagles fan and he's just the odd man out due to depth and other signings.  

 

At this point, I think he'd be a good cheap option that can play the other G spot.  

Edited March 19, 2023 by Virgil

[MrEpsYtown]

Yeah they have to make re-signing Landon Dickerson the priority so I get Seumalo gets pushed out. 
 

I have no idea why he is still out there. Maybe he’s waiting and wants to return to philly. 
 

He was a center in college…jordan Poyers teammate. been a while for him. But I’m sure he can pick it back up. 
 

I don’t think he will be cheap

[LABILLBACKER]

It won't be cheap. He'll want 12M/ yr.  But he could start at RG and play at a high level.

[LittleSammy]

I agree with good but not sure if cheap enough given what is left in the Bills salary cap piggy bank. This year has been tough re: salary cap $$$, but will become tougher in 2024 and 2025. You can only kick the can down the road for so long while hoping for those big future annual cap $$ increases.

[Dr. Who]

4 minutes ago, LittleSammy said:

I agree with good but not sure if cheap enough given what is left in the Bills salary cap piggy bank. This year has been tough re: salary cap $$$, but will become tougher in 2024 and 2025. You can only kick the can down the road for so long while hoping for those big future annual cap $$ increases.

Well, from what some fellas were posting the other day, there are various income streams that have not kicked in yet. There's a reasonable assumption that the cap will increase considerably in the next few years. I don't know, but I wouldn't simply assume it won't happen and I surmise the FO has factored all this in to how they are operating now.

[Wizard]

Restructure Dawkins and Taron Johnson. And, trade Oliver for a mid-round pick (I laugh when people on this board say we can get a 2nd round pick for him.) 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Wizard

[TOboy]

17 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

It won't be cheap. He'll want 12M/ yr.  But he could start at RG and play at a high level.

On Monday I may have agreed with you (although I thought maybe $8-9M). Several days into FA it becomes less likely that he gets the big payday. He may wind up getting $5-6M per on a shorter deal to try and get to the market again. 

[BillsFanForever19]

Like others have said, he's going to cost more money than we can afford. If Seumalo was in play for us, we'd have not signed McGovern. McGovern and Bates are our Guards.

 

Maybe they bring in another Guard that could compete with Bates and be depth. Or Draft one within the first few Rounds. But they aren't going to bring in someone who has a market value of 12.1 per year at this point. That would have been our first move if it were to happen.

Edited March 18, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[CDogg20]

55 minutes ago, Virgil said:

From my understanding, he's able to play both G and C, maybe a little smaller, but great pass protection and the Eagles ran the ball very successfully.  Talked to an Eagles fan and he's just the odd man out due to depth and other signings.  

 

At this point, I think he'd be a good cheap option that can play the other G spot.  

Seems as if the Bills have the same problem as me…taking too long to find the G spot 🤪

[Virgil]

At this point in FA, I have to think he won't get more than 7-8 mil per year.  These contracts have overall been a lot lower than anticipated.  Other people are being signed ahead of him for a reason. 

 

But, I'm your typical armchair expert, so usually wrong

[RocCityRoller]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

From my understanding, he's able to play both G and C, maybe a little smaller, but great pass protection and the Eagles ran the ball very successfully.  Talked to an Eagles fan and he's just the odd man out due to depth and other signings.  

 

At this point, I think he'd be a good cheap option that can play the other G spot.  

At this point it is a game of chicken. A lot of teams could benefit from signing him. He is the size of a C, but could play G.

 

He is still a tweener.

[Warriorspikes51]

Dawkins

McGovern

Morse

Seumalo

Shell

 

THAT would be a good upgrade.

[Chaos]

4 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Dawkins

McGovern

Morse

Seumalo

Shell

 

THAT would be a good upgrade.

That would be.  I really will be shocked if Morse plays more than half a season.  And his play was really declining last year.  At this point, he is a below average center. 

[LABILLBACKER]

15 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Dawkins

McGovern

Morse

Seumalo

Shell

 

THAT would be a good upgrade.

Let him play RG for a season then he could replace Mitch.  We'll see if his cost goes down as days go by? 

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Like others have said, he's going to cost more money than we can afford. If Seumalo was in play for us, we'd have not signed McGovern. McGovern and Bates are our Guards.

 

Maybe they bring in another Guard that could compete with Bates and be depth. Or Draft one within the first few Rounds. But they aren't going to bring in someone who has a market value of 12.1 per year at this point. That would have been our first move if it were to happen.

 

No way is Bates our starting G.

[Virgil]

14 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Like others have said, he's going to cost more money than we can afford. If Seumalo was in play for us, we'd have not signed McGovern. McGovern and Bates are our Guards.

 

Maybe they bring in another Guard that could compete with Bates and be depth. But they aren't going to bring in someone who has a market value of 12.1 per year.

I don’t know that Bates is a lock to start.   If the plan is to upgrade the line, someone is getting demoted.  Just adding McGovern isn’t going to cut it.  
 

For me, Bates and Spencer are also on notice 

[BillsFanForever19]

12 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I don’t know that Bates is a lock to start.   If the plan is to upgrade the line, someone is getting demoted.  Just adding McGovern isn’t going to cut it.  
 

For me, Bates and Spencer are also on notice 

 

I wouldn't call them locks, but if you listen to Beane, it doesn't sound like he's in a rush to flat out replace them. Nor is either so bad (Brown especially not having an offseason and coming off surgery) that they should immediately be demoted. Competition, sure. Get some guys in here via the Draft or inexpensive talented up and comers with potential that could push them and maybe beat them out.

 

But Seumalo is a high priced star that would immediately replace Bates and if that were the plan, to me they'd have done that first and wouldn't have paid McGovern what they paid him. Our cap situation isn't in a place to sign one Guard to a 10+ million dollar deal now.

Edited March 18, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[gonzo1105]

I wonder if there is something out there about him either personally or injury related. You haven't heard one peep about the guy and there has to be a reason for that.

[papazoid]

He had a pass block win rate of 93.6% last season, which ranked 15th among all guards, and his 72.6% run block win rate ranked 20th.

 

bills guards were ranked 50th or higher

 

guessing if he was cheap, he'd be gone already

 

he'd be a good one to get

[Einstein]

Here is what I wrote about him last month:

 

G Isaac Seumalo - A lisfranc injury ended his 2021 and some people thought he might be a post June 1 cut, but he has had a really solid 2022 season. Philly papers say he is the most underrated player on a great Philly o-line and is the glue of the line. He is 29 years old and his estimated market value is $12M per season. Can't imagine why he would leave Philly or Philly would let him walk after the season they and he just had but Super Bowl teams typically have to make hard choices.

 

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/245851-looking-at-our-options-to-rebuild-the-o-line-in-2023/#comment-8262977

 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

That would be.  I really will be shocked if Morse plays more than half a season.  And his play was really declining last year.  At this point, he is a below average center. 

Jesus
 

This is simply not true

 

Mitch Morse was excellent whenever he was on the field. Is he a concussion problem yes, but when he plays he’s one of the better centers.

[Snappysnackcakes]

2 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

At this point it is a game of chicken. A lot of teams could benefit from signing him. He is the size of a C, but could play G.

 

He is still a tweener.

RocCity - are you from Olean? I remember being at the Olean Center Mall circa 1983?? and watching some badasses walk in with a cardboard remnant and rocking it out for about 10 mins. 

[GreggTX]

He's basically Connor McGovern with much better (average) run blocking ability. His pass blocking, like McGovern, is average too so he could play either side. I'm not sure what he's asking, but cost conscious team wouldn't pay him much more than $7 million/yr. Again, he's better than any G on our roster currently and would be a slight upgrade. We need a real beast on our OL. I still believe many if not most games are won in the trenches.

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by GreggTX

[newcam2012]

17 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

He's basically Connor McGovern with much better (average) run blocking ability. His pass blocking, like McGovern, is average too so he could play either side. I'm not sure what he's asking, but cost conscious team wouldn't pay him much more than $7 million/yr. Again, he's better than any G on our roster currently and would be a slight upgrade. We need a real beast on our OL. I still believe many if not most games are won in the trenches.

 

" I still believe many if not most games are won in the trenches." Well put Gregg

 

This is where Beane and McD have failed year after year. It's the prime reason the Bills lose in the playoffs. 

 

KC and Cinci remain better than the Bills in the trenches. They have a better or just as good as a QB. 

 

I don't see the Bills advancing to the Super Bowl unless they get their trenches rectified. 

Edited March 18, 2023 by newcam2012

[GunnerBill]

Maybe it is medicals but I am also surprised he is out there. He was the #1 FA guard on the market to me. 

 

If his market isn't what he expected maybe he would take a 1 year prove it deal on a good team and try and double dip next year?

 

Hope the Bills are at least checking in. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Make it happen 

[H2o]

It has to be the $$$ he's asking for. He doesn't have an injury or anything at the present time. The Eagles are also strapped cap wise and can only spread the funds around but so much. I would imagine they aren't prioritizing a G. They'll just draft one in the first couple rounds. 

Edited March 18, 2023 by H2o

[Chaos]

9 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Jesus
 

This is simply not true

 

Mitch Morse was excellent whenever he was on the field. Is he a concussion problem yes, but when he plays he’s one of the better centers.

You can hate on PFF.  But they are far more reliable the the JFR ratings. So it simply is true. Below average in 2022. 

[HOUSE]

Being the odd man out is not impressive to me. I might be interested in the guys that started though 🤔 

[John from Riverside]

30 minutes ago, Chaos said:

You can hate on PFF.  But they are far more reliable the the JFR ratings. So it simply is true. Below average in 2022. 

I willnor have not have I ever taken stockings n PFF ratings

 

at least I’m consistent instead of just consistently bad like you

[Don Otreply]

4 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

" I still believe many if not most games are won in the trenches." Well put Gregg

 

This is where Beane and McD have failed year after year. It's the prime reason the Bills lose in the playoffs. 

 

KC and Cinci remain better than the Bills in the trenches. They have a better or just as good as a QB. 

 

I don't see the Bills advancing to the Super Bowl unless they get their trenches rectified. 

Agreed, our O-line is / should be a top priority,  only God knows why it gets ignored for the most part every off season, 

[Billz4ever]

13 hours ago, Virgil said:

From my understanding, he's able to play both G and C, maybe a little smaller, but great pass protection and the Eagles ran the ball very successfully.  Talked to an Eagles fan and he's just the odd man out due to depth and other signings.  

 

At this point, I think he'd be a good cheap option that can play the other G spot.  

 

Must be nice to have so much talent on your O-line you can't even use it all.  

[TheBeaneBandit]

I don't know where any of this tweener stuff is coming from. He is bigger than any guard on the Bills roster and would be the Bills best guard hands down. Easily. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

You can hate on PFF.  But they are far more reliable the the JFR ratings. So it simply is true. Below average in 2022. 

 

I don't hate PFF or their gradings. I am not a "it's meaningless" merchant and have defended them on here before. They are not everything and sure you get some inconsistency game to game but over a season what they end up with in a lot of cases supports what my eyes tell me and so I tend to believe that there is something in that and it is at least worth consideration so long as you don't make it the basis for everything. 

 

And what I would say is re-order those centers by pass block grade only. Morse is 10th. Yea he sucks as a run blocker. He kinda always has. To be honest on this team I don't really care about that. I think Morse actually had a pretty decent season in 2022. He was better than 2021 for certain. His play only picked up in the playoffs in 2021. 

 

The Bills do need a succession plan though. He is one bad head knock away from being done.

[Simon Says]

So,just move Bates to the bench? Seems kind of expensive depth but would create lots of insurance in case Morse gets hurt. 

[Don Otreply]

53 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

God and McDermott… obviously so they can fill their holes defensively in a adequate manner…. It’s how they did things with Cam on Carolina. Stack defense and let the elite QB raise everybody else’s game on offense.

We have disagreed on team stuff in the past, but on this you are spot on, it didn’t work in Carolina, and it isn’t working here, after three consecutive post season failures, one would think they might notice, at this rate Josh is going to be thoroughly beat up in three years and not have won anything more than the AFCE, bit of a shame really, 

[Chaos]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

The Bills do need a succession plan though. He is one bad head knock away from being done.

I would consider cutting Morse and save 6 million on the cap.  He just is not a meaningful part of the future. 

But if you are holding on to Morse, you should be all in on Seumalo because both of those guys are on well on the back nines of their careers, and if you are keeping Morse the time is now.  

The current regime seems to be praying that Spencer Brown goes from turnstile to at least average NFL linemen.    Holding on to Morse and praying Spencer Brown gets better, and signing McGoven seem more patchwork than strategic.   It might work. I certainly want it to work. 

However, I think in the long run, the Bills are better off using these season to go younger on the oline, with the hopes of them being together for four or five seasons before free agency breaks them up. (This assumes the ability to draft good olinemen).  I think it is plausible to Maneuver to end up with Dawand Jones and Steve Avila, and even going nuts and adding Joe Tipman to those two. Spencer Brown can be in on this competition. McGovern is young enough and affordable enough to do this.  I would rather role with Gabe Davis at WR2 then use the draft capital to improve that spot, with the current oline in place.  Defense needs to figure out how to get it done with what they have. 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Chaos

[MrEpsYtown]

Do you really look at those ratings though? They don’t pass the eye test sorry. I like PFF for some stuff. Their OL grades are hogwash. They mean nothing. Sam Mustipher? Lol really? C’mon

Edited March 18, 2023 by MrEpsYtown

[Chaos]

14 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Do you really look at those ratings though? They don’t pass the eye test sorry. I like PFF for some stuff. Their OL grades are hogwash. They mean nothing. Sam Mustipher? Lol really? C’mon

How many games do you watch a year.  If you watch four games a week, and focus on nothing but oline play, that means you will have seen 25% of plays.  If you watch only Bills games, you see a small fraction of the games overweighted with 6 of them being AFC east opponents.   None of our eye tests really matter, other than too ourselves. 

[NewEra]

14 hours ago, TOboy said:

On Monday I may have agreed with you (although I thought maybe $8-9M). Several days into FA it becomes less likely that he gets the big payday. He may wind up getting $5-6M per on a shorter deal to try and get to the market again. 

I doubt he gets 5-6M per.  I think his floor starts @8M per and the reason he’s still available is he’s hoping to get 11-13M (-ne won’t have any luck).  He’s 29- it’s his last chance to cash in as he’ll likely regress some wherever he goes.  Playing in between Kelce and Johnson has its advantages.