Rip the BandAid off

[SCBills]

4 minutes ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

A 6th or 7th is more likely than your scenario with his contract and play to date

Misleading title.  Should have said "My Madden 2023 trades"

 

I am not high on Ed Oliver, but I think you're way off here. 

[Ya Digg?]

14 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Bills "decision makers" should legitimately explain what the plan is for Oliver if he's still on this roster post-draft.  

 

I fear you are correct, but from the outside, it makes no sense at all.  

 

10.5M to a player not under contract the following year, who doesn't take over games himself and puts us in an Edmunds scenario for '24 at a position where we have nobody locked up on a multi-year deal is absurd management. 

 

 

Who do they need to explain things to? The fans? 

[Big Turk]

They aren't blowing up the team.  Enough of this...also people are really underestimating the amount the cap will be climbing the next 3-4 offseasons, making any restructures they do pretty much of no concern.

 

Within 4 years the cap will be over $300 million due to the various TV contracts about to kick in.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Big Turk

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

Who do they need to explain things to? The fans? 

 

Obviously they don't need to go into detail, but I would like to know there's some semblance of a plan for Oliver, if we don't move him... we're losing Edmunds, if he bounces, for nothing... and will be facing the same scenario for a FAR less impactful guy in a DT room that has nobody under contact for '24.   Yes, they should explain what the (vague) plan is... 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Trade whoever, but only for 5th round picks. 
 

Beane’s sweet spot.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

I like Morse a lot, but if the staff has any future plans of moving Bates to Center, I'd start that transition immediately and make sure we sign, and draft, a stud LG & RG to start the revamp of our IOL.  If they don't, then maybe we should keep him and address C next year in the draft. 

 

Ed Oliver needs to be traded.  I honestly think it's FO malpractice to keep him, with his cap hit, on this team.  We could really use the 10.5M elsewhere, we could really use an extra draft pick or two and we have zero DT's under contract for '24.  Extend Daquan Jones and either sign or draft a legit DT to start next to him on a multi-year/rookie contract.

 

I'd keep Hyde.  I firmly believe we should let Poyer and Edmunds walk, so having Hyde back there as a vet presence is worthwhile.   

 

I'd also keep AJE.  He's a solid rotational DE.  Not what we hoped he would be, but he's good enough to be a rotational piece on this Defense.  I'd probably be ok with him getting a second contract here as DE4 to be honest. 

 

Spencer Brown has so much potential.  I also believe we need to see it through with him.  That also means making sure LT-LG-C-RG are above average players so he can be the up and down piece until he, hopefully, figures it out. 

 

Agree on McKenzie and Neal.  There's no room anymore to pay legitimate money to fringe/ST guys. 

 

 

 

 

McKenzie has 1 more year--he's only getting 2.5 million next season. He had 478 yards from scrimmage on 51 touches and 5 TDs.  

 

Hines had 11 touches for 50 yards, 1 receiving TD and 2 returns for TD (in same game) and he is owed 10+ million over the next 2 years!  He's a "fringe/ST guy"....

[Simon Says]

1 hour ago, T master said:

 

I'm in on trading Oliver he hasn't lived up to his draft status & is inconsistent with out someone else on the D line to help him out Mckenzie i would cut there are a ton of guys out there just like him fast & inconsistent that you can get in the draft for less money & could have a bigger upside .

 

Neal seeing as he has versatility being that of ST's, corner & safety his contract is much easier to see as a more useful part of cap money & could be a good player to have around seeing as the amount of safety's on the team as of now is low & he knows the D unless it changes now .

 

Gilliam i can see if utilized in a much better way with in the scheme he has shown that he can be a outlet for Josh & has good hands pls is a good blocker when needed in the back field or for a lead blocker so he also has some versatility which makes his contract look to be better than a player that only has 1 thing to offer .

 

I hate that Morse is in the position he is given his concussions but the Bills definitely need someone that can take his place & there are a few in the draft that look like they have that potential so i hope they draft his replacement because i think he is one hit away from retirement if he's thinking of life after football .

 

 

Those of you pushing for an Oliver trade.....your,e talking about how he isn't worth the salary so why would another team want him?

[HOUSE]

I wouldn't do any of that s*** 

[MJS]

Hyde has no trade value. Epenesa has no trade value. Morse has no trade value. All of them are more valuable on the team than what you would get in a trade.

 

Ed Oliver can maybe get you a 3rd. Maybe a 2nd if there is a team who was really high on him out of the draft.

[MPT]

29 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

Still confused. Isn't the whole purpose of a restructure to pay them LESS money?

 

A restructure is when you pay a player's salary for the year as a bonus and spread that cap hit amount over the remaining years on the contract. It's all the same amount of money but the player gets the money faster and the team creates cap space for the current year.

[Iraq Vet]

My entire point was to not blow up the entire roster and rebuild, but to be slightly more aggressive with the cuts and trades then we normally need to.  With JA 17 we have Super Bowl or MVP type type QB for a while.  We need some room next year for a larger push.  I am ok with a 10-7 season this upcoming year, and a full reload in 2024 with cap space. 

 

Remember we only lost 3 games.  We will still be a playoff team if we are a little more aggressive with trades and cuts this year... then take our shot in 2024 with $$$ free Agents and packaging draft picks to move up! 

[MPT]

31 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Sometimes contracts are restructured because the player is no longer worth it, and when that happens they often refuse for one or more reasons.  Keep in mind, they often backload contracts with ridiculous annual numbers that they never have any intention of paying, but it looks good to the player who seems to want to be "the highest paid" or whatever their thing is.  I don't always understand it, but as we've seen, a 5, 6, or 8-year contract may actually practially only be a 3, 4, or 5 year contract.  

 

Didn't we offer Beasley a restructure and he refused in '21?  

 

Generally speaking, for younger up-and-coming players however, you seem to be correct.  

 

 

Beasley requested a trade and we released him. I don't think there was much of a cap hit so they wouldn't have restructured his contract anyway.

 

I think you're talking about renegotiating contracts though. 

 

The only reason I can think a player would refuse a restructure is if they knew the team wanted to pay out their salary to make them more appealing as a trade asset and they didn't want to be traded. But that's a very specific set of circumstances and I'm not sure if that's ever actually happened.

[Alphadawg7]

21 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

To add some context, all of which except for one were against non-playoff teams with mediocre to average QBs.  In the other game, Minnesota, it was against the third most sacked QB in the game.  

 

In the first game when the entire team was playing as if it were the Super Bowl, he had 4 QB Hits, 1 TFL, and 1.5 sacks.  After that he averaged one sack every fifth game or so, about 1 TFL every other game, and fewer than 1 QB Hit every two games, and all of them against mediocre or bad QBs other than for Cousins in that one game.  

 

In the playoffs he did nada, in two games, despite playing nearly 50% of the snaps.  

 

We need players to step up against the best teams, not the weakest ones.  

 

To your point though about snaps taken, aka "part time role," if he really is better than that, then let's point the finger at coaching.  Players are defended by not being coached properly and low snap counts.  Coaches are defended because the players aren't stepping up.  Beane is defended by the players not being used propertly.  So at the end of the day it's no one's fault for any of the poor decisions and dysfunction, so nothing changes.  

 

 

 

To be fair, the whole defense crapped the best against the Bengals, everyone.  Singling him out is irrelevant for that game.  Point is, AJE put up 6.5 sacks this year despite a part time role in a defense that wasn't overall great at sacking the QB.  I honestly wonder what he might do in a different defense.  And here is why below...

 

Jerry Hughes last 3 seasons in Buffalo, he had 4.5 sacks, 4.5 sacks, and then 2 sacks his last year.  A total of 11.  His first season in Houston when he was considered on the last year or two of his career he had 9 sacks.  

 

Since arriving in Buffalo, Hughes has had 5 seasons without Frazier (4 here, 1 in Houston) and 5 seasons with Frazier.

• Without Frazier:  Hughes has averaged 8 sacks a season, including getting 9 this year on one of the worst teams in football at the tail end of his career.
  • In the 5 seasons without Frazier he has put up 9 or more sacks 3 times.  
• With Frazier:  Hughes has averaged just 4.4 sacks a season, and only 1 season with more than 4.5 when he got 7 in 2018.  

Without Frazier he only had one season with less than 5 sacks...with Frazier every season but one 7 sack season was under 5 sacks.  

 

So I have legit quesitons on how much of it is the player or the system/scheme we run here.  I watched a 16th ranked Bengals defense who had the same number of sacks as the Bills #1 ranked defense last year go on to terrorize Mahomes and hold the Chiefs to 3 second half points on their way to the SB.  A week after the Chiefs offense embarrassed the Bills D, couldn't get any pressure, and gave up 3 scores inside the final 2 min of the game and opening drive of OT.  

 

Personally, I think AJE has shown ability and I question if this is the defense that can help him reach his peak, whatever that may be.  I am hoping with Frazier gone, that maybe now we might see some changes that will help our young guys take more steps forward.  Not saying AJE will suddenly break out, but I do suspect the defense we have run thus far has been part of the problem.  

 

 

[Chaos]

49 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

Still confused. Isn't the whole purpose of a restructure to pay them LESS money?

Typically restructures move non-guaranteed money to guaranteed money, which is spread over the contract in a way that reduces the CAP hit.  Cap and Cash are different beasts. 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

24 minutes ago, Iraq Vet said:

My entire point was to not blow up the entire roster and rebuild, but to be slightly more aggressive with the cuts and trades then we normally need to.  With JA 17 we have Super Bowl or MVP type type QB for a while.  We need some room next year for a larger push.  I am ok with a 10-7 season this upcoming year, and a full reload in 2024 with cap space. 

 

Remember we only lost 3 games.  We will still be a playoff team if we are a little more aggressive with trades and cuts this year... then take our shot in 2024 with $$$ free Agents and packaging draft picks to move up! 

Disagree with being OK with 10-7 next year. Every season with JA17 should be intended for a 1 seed and Super Bowl.

 

Agree with the spirit of your posts. I think we need to be similar to the Patriots* who for so many years both: (1) regularly flipped their own veterans for picks right before their decline in play and also (2) had a knack for acquiring talented veterans whose value was at a low due to other reasons but who could still play at a high level. Or, more recently, see the Chiefs trading away of Hill. 

[Magox]

3 hours ago, Iraq Vet said:

 

 

Trades

M Hyde is very tradeable. and getting up there in age.  Hamlin will be back.

ED Oliver will get us a huge trade, he is a nice player, but we need the room. 

AJ Epenesa he is Eric Flowers.  All potential that is never realized.  We will get a 4th rounder.

Mitch Morris... injury prone.  I don't want to cut him or Restructure. We will get 5th. (too much dead money)

 

Easy restructures or new contracts

Reggie Gilliam.... add a year and restructure ( or a flat out cut)

Dion Dawkins a mild restructure

Tre White Mild restructure

Spencer Brown..  (I believe he will be great one day, lock him in now)

Nyhiem Hines.. full restructure and add a year. 

 

 

Cuts

Isaiah Mckenzie (or a long term low pay restructure  instead of cutting)

Siran Neal... nice player.. but way over paid... there are nice Safeties in the draft. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hyde is still producing but won't get good trade value -    KEEP

Ed Oliver -  TRADE  ( 2nd - 3rd round value)

AJ Epenesa - Shows some potential not worth trade value -  KEEP

Mitch Morse -  KEEP

NyHiem Hines - Ask for pay cut to stay

Tre White - Restructure

Dion Dawkins - Restructure

J.A - Restructure

McKenzie - CUT

Edmunds - LET WALK

 

Draft and FA priorities for significant playing time or starter

 

WR

RT

Guard

MLB

Safety (If Benford isn't the answer)

 

Draft and FA for Depth

 

CB

Safety

 

[SCBills]

8 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Disagree with being OK with 10-7 next year. Every season with JA17 should be intended for a 1 seed and Super Bowl.

 

Agree with the spirit of your posts. I think we need to be similar to the Patriots* who for so many years both: (1) regularly flipped their own veterans for picks right before their decline in play and also (2) had a knack for acquiring talented veterans whose value was at a low due to other reasons but who could still play at a high level. Or, more recently, see the Chiefs trading away of Hill. 

 

Not only did the Chiefs trade Hill last year, they also let Ward and Mathieu walk..  Their starting Safety and CB1. 

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, Bob Jones said:

To the OP: Just curious...how do you "restructure" a current player's exisiting contract if they don't want to, and just say (to the Bills' front office), "Nah, I'm good, dog."? Or are you saying if they aren't willing to restructure, just Cut them?

The restructures did just give them guaranteed money in their pocket or kind of a no-brainer for the player

[Ya Digg?]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

Obviously they don't need to go into detail, but I would like to know there's some semblance of a plan for Oliver, if we don't move him... we're losing Edmunds, if he bounces, for nothing... and will be facing the same scenario for a FAR less impactful guy in a DT room that has nobody under contact for '24.   Yes, they should explain what the (vague) plan is... 

So outside of the fact that they don't owe fans an explanation about these moves, by giving an explanation of what they want to do with him they lose negotiating leverage, both with Oliver if they want to re-sign him and with teams if they want to find a trade partner.  The people who need to know, know what's going on with him.  Fans don't need to know and they shouldn't let us know

[streetkings01]

4 hours ago, Iraq Vet said:

Yes restructure JA17 contract.  But it is time to make a few cuts or trades.  Restructuring always hurts in the long run.  I am not suggesting huge cuts and a full rebuild. 

 

We did not make the Super Bowl.  But JA17 will be here a while, so I am willing to make few cuts.  Just so we have an opportunity to a quick creation of long term cap space.  

 

Trades

M Hyde is very tradeable. and getting up there in age.  Hamlin will be back.

ED Oliver will get us a huge trade, he is a nice player, but we need the room. 

AJ Epenesa he is Eric Flowers.  All potential that is never realized.  We will get a 4th rounder.

Mitch Morris... injury prone.  I don't want to cut him or Restructure. We will get 5th. (too much dead money)

 

Easy restructures or new contracts

Reggie Gilliam.... add a year and restructure ( or a flat out cut)

Dion Dawkins a mild restructure

Tre White Mild restructure

Spencer Brown..  (I believe he will be great one day, lock him in now)

Nyhiem Hines.. full restructure and add a year. 

 

 

Cuts

Isaiah Mckenzie (or a long term low pay restructure  instead of cutting)

Siran Neal... nice player.. but way over paid... there are nice Safeties in the draft. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People don’t wanna say it because of what happened on the field, but Hamlin was bad last year. Before he got hurt in that Bengals game he was really getting worked……he’s a backup at best not a replacement for Hyde.

[IndyMark]

4 hours ago, Iraq Vet said:

Trades

M Hyde is very tradeable. and getting up there in age.  Hamlin will be back.

ED Oliver will get us a huge trade, he is a nice player, but we need the room. 

AJ Epenesa he is Eric Flowers.  All potential that is never realized.  We will get a 4th rounder.

Mitch Morris... injury prone.  I don't want to cut him or Restructure. We will get 5th. (too much dead money)

 

Easy restructures or new contracts

Reggie Gilliam.... add a year and restructure ( or a flat out cut)

Dion Dawkins a mild restructure

Tre White Mild restructure

Spencer Brown..  (I believe he will be great one day, lock him in now)

Nyhiem Hines.. full restructure and add a year. 

 

 

Cuts

Isaiah Mckenzie (or a long term low pay restructure  instead of cutting)

Siran Neal... nice player.. but way over paid... there are nice Safeties in the draft. 

 

 

 

A few observations/thoughts on the above:

 

(a) Not sure Hamlin will be back, Hyde is an essential keep;

 

(b) Please define "huge" on the Oliver trade.  If we get a 5th for Oliver we should all dance a jig, on the spot. He has is not nearly as revered for other teams as he is here with a select group.  The key with his trade is to dump the goofy and nightmare-ish cap hit of $10m+. That savings in and of itself fills us about 3 holes on the squad and NO it does not create a hole, Ed is replaceable with a day 3 pick or street free agent.  

 

(c) Agree on cutting McKenzie, that really should have been done last year.

 

(d) I am not familiar with "mild" restructures; it is not worth the effort in kicking the can down the road for a mild benefit. Not sure that is a thing.

 

(e) Spencer Brown will not be Beane's second Wyatt Teller; Brown will be on the squad for a while. Beane learned a lesson.

 

(f) Hines should be restructured and prioritized as he is so versatile, particularly in Dorsey's scheme or intended scheme.

[T master]

7 hours ago, Herb Nightly said:

Those of you pushing for an Oliver trade.....your,e talking about how he isn't worth the salary so why would another team want him?

 

They may have the money to pay him & sign him to a extension which is money right now that the Bills could use to get under the cap & may find the same type of player in the draft or FA that could fill his spot plus they may be able to get a draft pick with the trade which could wind up to be a highly motivated 3rd or 4th round pick  .

 

If it was me i wouldn't mind keeping him but he will demand more money than matches his output but to free up that cap room could be huge for signing others including signing & paying the draft class & UDFA's . 

 

 

[KOKBILLS]

9 hours ago, Iraq Vet said:

Yes restructure JA17 contract.  But it is time to make a few cuts or trades.  Restructuring always hurts in the long run.  I am not suggesting huge cuts and a full rebuild. 

 

We did not make the Super Bowl.  But JA17 will be here a while, so I am willing to make few cuts.  Just so we have an opportunity to a quick creation of long term cap space.  

 

Trades

M Hyde is very tradeable. and getting up there in age.  Hamlin will be back.

ED Oliver will get us a huge trade, he is a nice player, but we need the room. 

AJ Epenesa he is Eric Flowers.  All potential that is never realized.  We will get a 4th rounder.

Mitch Morris... injury prone.  I don't want to cut him or Restructure. We will get 5th. (too much dead money)

 

Easy restructures or new contracts

Reggie Gilliam.... add a year and restructure ( or a flat out cut)

Dion Dawkins a mild restructure

Tre White Mild restructure

Spencer Brown..  (I believe he will be great one day, lock him in now)

Nyhiem Hines.. full restructure and add a year. 

 

 

Cuts

Isaiah Mckenzie (or a long term low pay restructure  instead of cutting)

Siran Neal... nice player.. but way over paid... there are nice Safeties in the draft. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do think trading Oliver and Epenesa is absolutely the right thing to do now. I don't think they'll get much for AJ...Maybe a 5th? But I don't care. Do it...

[nosejob]

9 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Hamlin won't be back any time soon!! 

I have a hard time thinking any doctor will tell him ...yeah you can go be an NFL safety. He can probably make hay with a foundation, ironically.

[philholbroo]

10 hours ago, Iraq Vet said:

Yes restructure JA17 contract.  But it is time to make a few cuts or trades.  Restructuring always hurts in the long run.  I am not suggesting huge cuts and a full rebuild. 

 

We did not make the Super Bowl.  But JA17 will be here a while, so I am willing to make few cuts.  Just so we have an opportunity to a quick creation of long term cap space.  

 

Trades

M Hyde is very tradeable. and getting up there in age.  Hamlin will be back.

ED Oliver will get us a huge trade, he is a nice player, but we need the room. 

AJ Epenesa he is Eric Flowers.  All potential that is never realized.  We will get a 4th rounder.

Mitch Morris... injury prone.  I don't want to cut him or Restructure. We will get 5th. (too much dead money)

 

Easy restructures or new contracts

Reggie Gilliam.... add a year and restructure ( or a flat out cut)

Dion Dawkins a mild restructure

Tre White Mild restructure

Spencer Brown..  (I believe he will be great one day, lock him in now)

Nyhiem Hines.. full restructure and add a year. 

 

 

Cuts

Isaiah Mckenzie (or a long term low pay restructure  instead of cutting)

Siran Neal... nice player.. but way over paid... there are nice Safeties in the draft. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Would like to keep hyde, don't want two inexperienced guys back there. doubt hamlin is coming back, especially for 2023

Ed would be ok if it works out, but then they'll be even more tempted to draft dl early or have to sign a replacment for close to his cost.

Epenesa, sure

Morse-no, but he may end up retiring with any more health problems though. He is the leader of the ol, need his presence for at least 1 more year.

 

Agree with restructures and cuts for sure.

[BillsFanForever19]

11 hours ago, Iraq Vet said:

Yes restructure JA17 contract.  But it is time to make a few cuts or trades.  Restructuring always hurts in the long run.  I am not suggesting huge cuts and a full rebuild. 

 

We did not make the Super Bowl.  But JA17 will be here a while, so I am willing to make few cuts.  Just so we have an opportunity to a quick creation of long term cap space.  

 

Trades

M Hyde is very tradeable. and getting up there in age.  Hamlin will be back.

ED Oliver will get us a huge trade, he is a nice player, but we need the room. 

AJ Epenesa he is Eric Flowers.  All potential that is never realized.  We will get a 4th rounder.

Mitch Morris... injury prone.  I don't want to cut him or Restructure. We will get 5th. (too much dead money)

 

Easy restructures or new contracts

Reggie Gilliam.... add a year and restructure ( or a flat out cut)

Dion Dawkins a mild restructure

Tre White Mild restructure

Spencer Brown..  (I believe he will be great one day, lock him in now)

Nyhiem Hines.. full restructure and add a year. 

 

 

Cuts

Isaiah Mckenzie (or a long term low pay restructure  instead of cutting)

Siran Neal... nice player.. but way over paid... there are nice Safeties in the draft. 

 

We're losing Jordan Poyer already and Damar Hamlin is no guarantee to return this season and you want to trade Micah? That's madness.

 

Down a LG and needing upgrades at RG and RT? Let's create a hole at Center too.

 

Reggie Gilliam? Reward a guy for working hard and doing things the right way and then ask him to restructure/cut him a year later, even though he's performed well. Yeah, that's a great message to send to the locker room.

 

And everyone's all gung ho on moving Ed Oliver. But he was performing rather well when Von Miller was in and he was getting help from better DE play. Moving on from him would leave us with just Daquan Jones and Tim Settle. Whatever we get for him would have to be used to get a Starter to replace him.

 

I don't understand how fans are looking at the team needing upgrades while also needing to fill 24 holes from Free Agents leaving and think "let's create more holes elsewhere".

Edited March 2, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[Big Blitz]

You can package our first and Oliver and move up into the top 20 and get a potential elite WR.  
 

Maybe even score that team's 5th or 6th RD pick to.  

[Albany,n.y.]

13 hours ago, Iraq Vet said:

Yes restructure JA17 contract.  But it is time to make a few cuts or trades.  Restructuring always hurts in the long run.  I am not suggesting huge cuts and a full rebuild. 

 

We did not make the Super Bowl.  But JA17 will be here a while, so I am willing to make few cuts.  Just so we have an opportunity to a quick creation of long term cap space.  

 

Trades

M Hyde is very tradeable. and getting up there in age.  Hamlin will be back.

ED Oliver will get us a huge trade, he is a nice player, but we need the room. 

AJ Epenesa he is Eric Flowers.  All potential that is never realized.  We will get a 4th rounder.

Mitch Morris... injury prone.  I don't want to cut him or Restructure. We will get 5th. (too much dead money)

 

Easy restructures or new contracts

Reggie Gilliam.... add a year and restructure ( or a flat out cut)

Dion Dawkins a mild restructure

Tre White Mild restructure

Spencer Brown..  (I believe he will be great one day, lock him in now)

Nyhiem Hines.. full restructure and add a year. 

 

 

Cuts

Isaiah Mckenzie (or a long term low pay restructure  instead of cutting)

Siran Neal... nice player.. but way over paid... there are nice Safeties in the draft. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't quit your day job.  Those trades aren't reasonable.  I wouldn't count on Hamlin being back.  Oliver on the 5th year option wouldn't get much in return, Epenesa wouldn't be worth more than a 6th, Morse is worth more to the Bills than a 5th, which is about all his value is.  The only place to lock Brown in is on the bench.  

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

You can package our first and Oliver and move up into the top 20 and get a potential elite WR.  
 

Maybe even score that team's 5th or 6th RD pick to.  

 

Under a 10 million dollar 1 year deal? I don't think so.

 

12 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Oliver on the 5th year option wouldn't get much in return, 

 

Exactly. And a 10 million dollar cap hit on that one year. I think fans are really over exaggerating the amount of return he'd get us. Wouldn't be enough to even replace him with a player of his caliber. So why do it?

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

You can package our first and Oliver and move up into the top 20 and get a potential elite WR.  
 

Maybe even score that team's 5th or 6th RD pick to.  

I’m not sure there is an elite receiver in this draft

3 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Under a 10 million dollar 1 year deal? I don't think so.

 

 

Exactly. And a 10 million dollar cap hit on that one year. I think fans are really over exaggerating the amount of return he'd get us. Wouldn't be enough to even replace him with a player of his caliber. So why do it?

You would do it if you didn’t have any intention of resigning him, which is a possibility
 

Ed Olivers production can be replaced lt would also free up 10 million on our Which we could use to sign a less expensive player. Sheldon Rankins comes to mind.

Edited March 2, 2023 by John from Riverside

[ProcessTruster]

Bills have an SB calibre roster.  Let's go have a solid draft, sign our own, move some guys up, add some FAs and then just f ing play it back.   and hope a half a dozen key starters don't go down for the season this time 

 

 Nothing has changed.   Go Bills. 

[RyanC883]

23 hours ago, Iraq Vet said:

Yes restructure JA17 contract.  But it is time to make a few cuts or trades.  Restructuring always hurts in the long run.  I am not suggesting huge cuts and a full rebuild. 

 

We did not make the Super Bowl.  But JA17 will be here a while, so I am willing to make few cuts.  Just so we have an opportunity to a quick creation of long term cap space.  

 

Trades

M Hyde is very tradeable. and getting up there in age.  Hamlin will be back.  I'd keep Hyde.  While Hamlin may be back, I'm not sure what condition he will be in.  Poyer is likely gone (freeing up cap space), and I'd want one vet back.  So I'd keep Hyde, draft or FA another safety.  

ED Oliver will get us a huge trade, he is a nice player, but we need the room.  I agree.  I think he will get a 2nd rounder for us.  I think someone will overpay and believe he will be impactful.  Perhaps he would be great in Philly or Wash?   

AJ Epenesa he is Eric Flowers.  All potential that is never realized.  We will get a 4th rounder.    Would rather try to trade Basham I think.  But I think I'd try to trade one of them.  That said, both are on rookie contracts, so I'd let training camp play out first.  

Mitch Morris... injury prone.  I don't want to cut him or Restructure. We will get 5th. (too much dead money)  I'm actually ok with this.  Many won't be.  But Bottinger can play center, and the center/guard class looks good this year.  

 

Easy restructures or new contracts

Reggie Gilliam.... add a year and restructure ( or a flat out cut)  I would not cut, he's cheap and can create a mismatch.  This is an OC problem, IMO.  

Dion Dawkins a mild restructure.  Totally agree.  

Tre White Mild restructure  Totally agree.  

Spencer Brown..  (I believe he will be great one day, lock him in now)  Not sure he will be great one day, but if we can add a cheap year to the end of his rookie deal I'm all for it.  

Nyhiem Hines.. full restructure and add a year.  We don't use him really, so I'd either make him very cheap, trade, or cut (if no dead cap).  Draft an actual 3 down back in mold of Ingram.  We could have an Ingram/Kamara type backfield with the rookie and Cook.  

 

 

Cuts

Isaiah Mckenzie (or a long term low pay restructure  instead of cutting)  I'd be fine cutting depending on the draft.  

Siran Neal... nice player.. but way over paid... there are nice Safeties in the draft.  I'd restructure here. As you said, nice player.  If won't restructure, then would have to trade/cut.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not sure why so many dinged you here.  We have a lot of work to do this offseason to get JA talent for next year and other years.  That means impactful FAs and young guys.  I've put my comments in bold above.  

 

 

12 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

We're losing Jordan Poyer already and Damar Hamlin is no guarantee to return this season and you want to trade Micah? That's madness.

 

Down a LG and needing upgrades at RG and RT? Let's create a hole at Center too.

 

Reggie Gilliam? Reward a guy for working hard and doing things the right way and then ask him to restructure/cut him a year later, even though he's performed well. Yeah, that's a great message to send to the locker room.

 

And everyone's all gung ho on moving Ed Oliver. But he was performing rather well when Von Miller was in and he was getting help from better DE play. Moving on from him would leave us with just Daquan Jones and Tim Settle. Whatever we get for him would have to be used to get a Starter to replace him.

 

I don't understand how fans are looking at the team needing upgrades while also needing to fill 24 holes from Free Agents leaving and think "let's create more holes elsewhere".

 

I get your point, but I think the idea of an exercise like this is not to create more holes, but see where we can cut and fill for less in the draft or FA and get at least equal production (Oliver, perhaps Morse), while freeing up money to fill other holes that also exist (example: trade Oliver, get a replacement in the draft or FA at less cost, and then get a OL or WR upgrade).  But your right, if they mess this up, it creates more holes.  

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

McKenzie is also  a complete spaz and has 0 football acumen on the field. He was responsible for at least 5 turnovers this season. That’s incredibly awful for someone with the amount of touches/targets he got this season.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

39 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Remember the game well.… He’s comes a clown off the field as well in his interviews… 

 

 

Not being able to trust the slot receiver was one of the biggest pivot points of the season.  It really took Allen off schedule after the bye.   We tend to remember the early part of the season as when the Bills were playing their best........but the Miami and KC games both should have been blowouts.    They barely escaped 1-1.    

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

McKenzie is also  a complete spaz and has 0 football acumen on the field. He was responsible for at least 5 turnovers this season. That’s incredibly awful for someone with the amount of touches/targets he got this season.

 

 He did cough it up a bunch, but I was comparing him with a kick returner (Hines) who isn't part of any Offense.

[Unforgiven]

Tank next season imho.

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, Unforgiven said:

Tank next season imho.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion
Sometimes you should just keep it to yourself