Khalil Shakir / answer for WR 2 / Makes Sports Illustrated

[Thurman#1]

On 2/10/2023 at 9:01 AM, Figster said:

 

 

Looks and plays like a young Andre Reed. Almost as agile and athletic at the WR position as Josh Allen is at he QB position. Combined = the recipe for greatness.

 

 

 

 

Andre was the 86th pick. Shakir 148th.

 

Andre was 6' 2", with long arms.

 

But yeah, both had a smoothness to their movements. Still, Shakir has a long way to go before he should be compared to Andre.

 

Andre had 637 yards in his first year, under another coach who tended to bring young guys in slower than many liked, though the Bills were bad enough at that point, that Levy wasn't as slow as he became when the lineup was really good.

 

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Thurman#1

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Andre was the 86th pick. Shakir 148th.

 

Andre was 6' 2", with long arms.

 

But yeah, both had a smoothness to their movements. Still, Shakir has a long way to go before he should be compared to Andre.

 

Andre had 637 yards in his first year, under another coach who tended to bring young guys in slower than many liked, though the Bills were bad enough at that point, that Levy wasn't as slow as he became when the lineup was really good.

 

 

 

 

Two totally different receivers.

 

And Reed arrived 2 and a half seasons before Levy.

[Richard Noggin]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Two totally different receivers.

 

And Reed arrived 2 and a half seasons before Levy.

 

Different? Definitely.

 

Totally different? Well I guess I hope not (on the field). 

 

Andre was a bigger, more physical, more Alpha type (I don't like that term, but it really was/is such a defining characteristic of Reed's game on and off the field) than Shakir can ever be. I'd argue that Khalil Shakir is a better athletic prospect than many realize, but that Andre Reed is probably just a different dude. 

[Jerry Jabber]

On 2/9/2023 at 8:10 PM, Figster said:

 Andre Reed was drafted in the 4th round from a small School and yet played all 16 games as a rookie with over 600 yards.  Player development under HC McD is being questioned. I'm fine with showing loyalty to a player / senority to a point. Not when it means slowing the development of a more talented athlete. 

And that was almost 40 years ago. 
 

Didn’t say it was impossible, just said highly unlikely. 

On 2/10/2023 at 6:46 AM, freddyjj said:

Diggs did in Minn as a 5th rd pick...just saying.  

Didn’t say it was impossible, just said it was highly unlikely. Not all lower round picks develop into superstars.

[3rdand12]

On 2/9/2023 at 8:21 PM, Maine-iac said:

He's roughly the same size as Diggs but faster.  Have to see what he does on the field but size is not his problem.  Waddle and Hill aren't giants.

Faster ?

[Maine-iac]

3 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

Faster ?

Wikipedia page had Diggs listed at a 4.46 40 and Shakir is listed at 4.43.  I have since seen other times on other websites but that's what wiki listed.  The point I was getting at with my original comment was that Diggs is a late round pick that plays at an elite level.  Matter of fact the majority of the receiving leaders are not 1st round picks.  Three out of the top five pass catchers the last two years have not been 1st round picks.  Yardage wise 6 out of 10 (2021) and 5 out of 10 (2022) were not 1st round picks.  You don't need elite combine stats to be a great reciever just ask Kupp, the guy runs a 4.6 something.

[Dr.Sack]

I believe Shakir takes over when Diggs goes down with an ACL and becomes our WR 1. Davis stays WR 2.

[Playoffs?]

3 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

I believe Shakir takes over when Diggs goes down with an ACL and becomes our WR 1. Davis stays WR 2.

WTF?!?!?

 

Anyway, we can only hope that Shakir becomes Andre Reed… literally a Hall of Famer.  Until then, no way I can be comfortable with that comparison.  

[Dr.Sack]

3 minutes ago, Playoffs? said:

WTF?!?!?

 

Anyway, we can only hope that Shakir becomes Andre Reed… literally a Hall of Famer.  Until then, no way I can be comfortable with that comparison.  

Diggs is right around the age WR 1s start to fall apart. Gone are the days we can expect high level production from WR 1s in their 30s.

[starrymessenger]

On 2/9/2023 at 5:10 PM, Figster said:

 Andre Reed was drafted in the 4th round from a small School and yet played all 16 games as a rookie with over 600 yards.  Player development under HC McD is being questioned. I'm fine with showing loyalty to a player / senority to a point. Not when it means slowing the development of a more talented athlete. 

Yeah puts me in mind of when Jauron insisted in playing Anthony Thomas ahead of one Fred Jackson that all the fans were screaming for. You can call it loyalty I guess, the A  train was with Dick in Chicago, but I believe it to be more risk aversion consistent with a conservative outlook.

[Playoffs?]

53 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

Diggs is right around the age WR 1s start to fall apart. Gone are the days we can expect high level production from WR 1s in their 30s.

I get it man… but ease up on the Diggs ACL stuff!  We need that guy!

[Dr.Sack]

12 minutes ago, Playoffs? said:

I get it man… but ease up on the Diggs ACL stuff!  We need that guy!

Diggs is great, it’s just zero WRs doing much past 30. Perhaps I’m missing someone. 

[Playoffs?]

1 hour ago, Dr.Sack said:

Diggs is great, it’s just zero WRs doing much past 30. Perhaps I’m missing someone. 

Just having some fun. 
Let’s hope Diggs has a few more good ones in him!

[BigAl2526]

I'm not smart enough to make a prediction.  I do have a feeling that Khalil has something of an opportunity in the slot.  I'm not writing Gabe Davis off on the outside, but the pressure is on him to breakout in a major way if he wants to hold on to that #2 receiver spot.

[transplantbillsfan]

I hope so.

 

I'll say this... look at Diggs vs Shakir coming out of College and they're almost identical. Shakir has significantly shorter arms but seems a little more explosive if you're basing it off the Combine.

 

I think we were all pretty excited to get him in the 5th round. I wouldn't be surprised to see him surpass Davis, but we should still hedge our bets and get a WR.

[newcam2012]

Shakir has to prove himself. I know it's fun to compare but the comparasions to Reed is way over the top.

 

The little glimpse we saw from Shakir looks promising. However, I have to ask myself why didn't he see the field more? In fact, the team went out and got a washed up Beasley from the streets. Not exactly a glowing move of confidence for Shakir. 

 

Either the coaching staff is extremely incompetent or Shakir just isn't that good right now. Those really are the only two legit reasons why he didn't see the field. 

 

The talk of him being a number 2 WR next year is pretty scary. The Bills found out Gabe isn't that guy. The WR core really hurt Allen's ability to shine. This team better go out and find a legit #2 WR. They can't afford to hope and wish a player turns into a #2. We saw how that worked out last year. 

Edited February 12, 2023 by newcam2012

[Figster]

On 2/12/2023 at 2:11 AM, transplantbillsfan said:

I hope so.

 

I'll say this... look at Diggs vs Shakir coming out of College and they're almost identical. Shakir has significantly shorter arms but seems a little more explosive if you're basing it off the Combine.

 

I think we were all pretty excited to get him in the 5th round. I wouldn't be surprised to see him surpass Davis, but we should still hedge our bets and get a WR.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bills-2023-predictions-khalil-shakir-future-no-2-wr/ar-AA17wy3t?ocid=xboxntp&cvid=9f31bf41300a404396c44e277cd5382b

 

Shakir makes Sports Illustrated 

[Billz4ever]

I think he's clearly the slot guy.  Taking over that Beasley role that Josh loved under Dabs and what Crowder was brought in for.  I see them bringing in Crowder as the bridge to get to Shakir.  I was never really high on Crowder though to begin with and McKenzie is definitely not the guy.

 

Problem is, Dorsey doesn't use the slot like Dabs did.  That Beasley role we were used to under Dabs was nearly non-existent this year.

[947]

9 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

Problem is, Dorsey doesn't use the slot like Dabs did.  That Beasley role we were used to under Dabs was nearly non-existent this year.

What I want to know is, did we under-utilize the slot by design because McKenzie couldn't get open consistently vs zone coverage & dropped way too many when he did? Or is the slot WR  just a neglected part of Dorsey's offense?

[Billz4ever]

9 minutes ago, 947 said:

What I want to know is, did we under-utilize the slot by design because McKenzie couldn't get open consistently vs zone coverage & dropped way too many when he did? Or is the slot WR  just a neglected part of Dorsey's offense?

 

Hard to say really.  I got the feeling Josh lost faith in McKenzie and that's why he asked to bring Beasley back by name (from what I understand).

 

But even after Beas came back, you didn't see much use of him.

 

Almost nothing from the slot and no attempts to incorporate the RBs into the passing game. 

 

So unless you want to say it was Josh just being off and not taking the short to mid stuff, which could be part of it, the other part has to be the play calling.

[Charles Romes]

The fact Shakir totally disappeared to the point Brown and Beasley were brought back was disappointing.  

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, Figster said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bills-2023-predictions-khalil-shakir-future-no-2-wr/ar-AA17wy3t?ocid=xboxntp&cvid=9f31bf41300a404396c44e277cd5382b

 

Shakir makes Sports Illustrated 

 

They put the wrong 50% catch rate, 10% drop rate Bills WR in the article....

[transplantbillsfan]

4 hours ago, Figster said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bills-2023-predictions-khalil-shakir-future-no-2-wr/ar-AA17wy3t?ocid=xboxntp&cvid=9f31bf41300a404396c44e277cd5382b

 

Shakir makes Sports Illustrated 

 

I think Shakir could end up being a number 2 if Dorsey utilizes him the right way.  His arms are just really short for a WR playing on the outside

[NastyNateSoldiers]

On 2/9/2023 at 8:10 PM, Figster said:

 Andre Reed was drafted in the 4th round from a small School and yet played all 16 games as a rookie with over 600 yards.  Player development under HC McD is being questioned. I'm fine with showing loyalty to a player / senority to a point. Not when it means slowing the development of a more talented athlete. 

McD is loyal to a fault . He should be loyal to winning that’s what the best coaches do. Being loyal to winning is being loyal to the Fan base and organization. 

[Rebel101]

On 2/9/2023 at 7:22 PM, The Wiz said:

Coaching staff will need to see him develop for another 3 years before they give him a starting shot.  

 

 

*This is a joke for everyone that agrees*

Yeah, we’ve wasted a lot of money & roster spots not allowing our picks to perform. 😫

[Figster]

2 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

McD is loyal to a fault . He should be loyal to winning that’s what the best coaches do. Being loyal to winning is being loyal to the Fan base and organization. 

Very well put NastyNateSoldier

[freddyjj]

On 2/11/2023 at 12:18 AM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

And Reed arrived 2 and a half seasons before Levy

I lived through the Hank Bullough era and am always confused as to when Bills drafted Andre.  It was same draft as Bruce in 1985 - so 2 HOFers in a single draft.  Wow.   

 

Levy replaced Bullough midway through 1986 so Andre played 1.5 years with Bills  prior to Levy arriving.  

[jletha]

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, jletha said:

 

 

 

Shakir should get more snaps in the same respect that Gabe Davis got more snaps as a rookie...............which is when the WR2 is out or when they go 4 wide.

 

Davis actually played 73% of the offensive snaps as a rookie.........almost 800 snaps...........I think people believe he played less than half the time and was on a crazy 1,000+ yard pace or something if he played most of them........and that really wasn't the case.

 

The WR2 in 2023 should be someone in the stratosphere at least of Tee Higgins...........which John Brown was, in his own way, when healthy early in 2020 as the opposite number outside to Stefon Diggs.    That first month of 2020 was probably the most dynamic they've looked with Allen.

 

I like Shakir a lot but in an IDEAL scenario I think he develops into a Hines Ward-esque of guy for the Bills..........Ward was a guy who took a few years to develop into a stud receiver but was productive when called upon and did a lot of dirty work the first few seasons.

 

People who think you should just go Shakir now gotta' recognize that Davis is likely gone after this season and you have to plan for Diggs to lose a step by 2024 at least..........even if we presume Shakir is a starter in year 3 and 4.............WR still needs to be addressed with multiple quality chips this offseason.    A UFA and an early draft pick, hopefully.

[Big Turk]

Shakir was open the most versus man coverage of any rookie WR...seems like the Bills should start using this more? #FreeShakir

 

 

[Nephilim17]

I wouldn't be thrilled with having two 6 foot nothing (and likely smaller) 190 lb receivers with decent but not great speed on both sides.

Put Shakir in the slot and draft a traits guy for #2.

[John from Riverside]

We need this kid to step up this year and take that slot role

 

I’m not a big fan of moving digs into the slot at least not yet. It just creates another hole.

 

I would still be a big fan of bringing in a middle level, free-agent wide receiver like we did every year up until this last year and move Gabe Davis into the third wide receiver position. He seems to thrive there a lot better.

 

 

[Luka]

McDermott failed miserably this year, in my eyes. Elam and Shakir both proved often that they should be on the field and time and time again they stood on the sidelines. Elam was tied for 2nd in interceptions on the team in limited snaps and Shakir consistently made big time catches on 3rd down. Two of the better draft picks for this front office and the coaching staff sat them. Makes me question if OBD is all on the same page. 

[John from Riverside]

On 2/15/2023 at 3:37 PM, Charles Romes said:

The fact Shakir totally disappeared to the point Brown and Beasley were brought back was disappointing.  

I would really like to know what really happened there. Shakur made way too many plays to believe that he pulled the best disappearing act

 

But I’d also like to know why Elam was sat down for a week with no explanation explanation

[finn]

On 2/16/2023 at 11:06 AM, Rebel101 said:

Yeah, we’ve wasted a lot of money & roster spots not allowing our picks to perform. 😫

Which also doesn't give us a chance to see what they can do (Wyatt, Hodgins, possibly Elam). McD seems to think the downsides of playing young players outweighs the upsides. That is obviously the case often, but you look at, say, the KC rookies and you wonder if he's got it backwards in some cases. I remember when Marv Levy refused to put Henry Jones in at safety in one of the early Super Bowls when they were getting clobbered in the secondary. And then when Dallas was running the ball down our throat in the fourth (I think) Super Bowl, he refused to play Parella and other big young DT we had on the bench. I can believe Shakir had his weaknesses, for example, but was he so much worse than "Drop" Davis or that walking disaster, McKenzie? 

[What a Tuel]

6 minutes ago, finn said:

Which also doesn't give us a chance to see what they can do (Wyatt, Hodgins, possibly Elam). McD seems to think the downsides of playing young players outweighs the upsides. That is obviously the case often, but you look at, say, the KC rookies and you wonder if he's got it backwards in some cases. I remember when Marv Levy refused to put Henry Jones in at safety in one of the early Super Bowls when they were getting clobbered in the secondary. And then when Dallas was running the ball down our throat in the fourth (I think) Super Bowl, he refused to play Parella and other big young DT we had on the bench. I can believe Shakir had his weaknesses, for example, but was he so much worse than "Drop" Davis or that walking disaster, McKenzie? 

 

McDuffie was getting torched in the super bowl.

[Fan in Chicago]

On 2/17/2023 at 9:58 AM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Shakir should get more snaps in the same respect that Gabe Davis got more snaps as a rookie...............which is when the WR2 is out or when they go 4 wide.

 

But purely looking at that chart, there are two takeaways - (1) He has the lowest number of snaps (2) His "open" rate was the highest which means the coaches somehow did not trust him. Or was it Allen not trusting him?

Either way it is a problem. He did have that terrible drop in the playoffs when he either lost the ball in the sun or took his eye off at the wrong time. But, besides that, on the field we didnt see enough throws to him to understand whether he has the Davis-level of catch percent or a healthier one. 

 

This non-trust of rookies (and new additions to the team, see Hines) is a running theme on the McD-coached team and quite concerning. If they use a Rd 1 or 2 on WR this season, how do we know he will be played sufficiently? 

[Fan in Chicago]

On 2/17/2023 at 7:36 PM, John from Riverside said:

 

 

I would still be a big fan of bringing in a middle level, free-agent wide receiver like we did every year up until this last year and move Gabe Davis into the third wide receiver position. He seems to thrive there a lot better.

 

 

I am with you. Given the lack of dependability when on the field, he should start the season no higher than as a #3. I presume we will acquire at least 2 WRs in this off season, so Davis should be a on short leash or get dropped lower on the WR list. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

But purely looking at that chart, there are two takeaways - (1) He has the lowest number of snaps (2) His "open" rate was the highest which means the coaches somehow did not trust him. Or was it Allen not trusting him?

Either way it is a problem. He did have that terrible drop in the playoffs when he either lost the ball in the sun or took his eye off at the wrong time. But, besides that, on the field we didnt see enough throws to him to understand whether he has the Davis-level of catch percent or a healthier one. 

 

This non-trust of rookies (and new additions to the team, see Hines) is a running theme on the McD-coached team and quite concerning. If they use a Rd 1 or 2 on WR this season, how do we know he will be played sufficiently? 

 

The chart is just for getting open against man coverage..........but the Bills aren't really going to face a lot of man coverage.

 

Shakir has some size/length limitations outside that I think teams would really be able to exploit if he were to assume Gabe Davis' WR2 role.   So ideally he'd be a slot receiver but you gotta' be very good against zone to be the slot for the Bills and he was not.   McKenzie is oft-noted as not good when it comes to attacking zone defenses either..........which is why Beasley had to be brought back.  

 

It's not a given that Shakir will now be excellent against zone after a year in the league.........so I think you address WR with a good UFA(not a $2M flyer) and an early draft pick..........and then if Shakir rises and you actually have 4-5 good receivers you are back closer to where you were in 2020.     

[BananaB]

On 2/18/2023 at 10:10 PM, Luka said:

McDermott failed miserably this year, in my eyes. Elam and Shakir both proved often that they should be on the field and time and time again they stood on the sidelines. Elam was tied for 2nd in interceptions on the team in limited snaps and Shakir consistently made big time catches on 3rd down. Two of the better draft picks for this front office and the coaching staff sat them. Makes me question if OBD is all on the same page. 

Starting to believe McD value of experience is holding the development of young players back. Worst thing about last year was when McKenzie and Jackson weren’t getting the job done Shakir and Elam still didn’t get much of a shot.