Tipster19 Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Between the players we have and the players that we’ll have coming up for new contracts it may be time to change the defensive philosophy. I also think that replacing and/or adding new players will be easier and cheaper to do. Looking at the current roster we already have plenty of the pieces in house. Adding more LBers will be needed but once again they should be pretty easy to find, especially in the draft where 4th and 5th rders can provide great replacements. 2 3 10 2 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 What they need to do is have a plan “B” & “C” etc, ready to go when the opponent shows that they have figured out how to beat their defense, during games, and not wait till halftime to implement it. GO BILLS!!! 5 7 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 We have been building a 4-3 defense since 2017 and it would take a complete overhaul to go to a defense never ran before by this coaching staff. 1 12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Tipster19 said: Between the players we have and the players that we’ll have coming up for new contracts it may be time to change the defensive philosophy. I also think that replacing and/or adding new players will be easier and cheaper to do. Looking at the current roster we already have plenty of the pieces in house. Adding more LBers will be needed but once again they should be pretty easy to find, especially in the draft where 4th and 5th rders can provide great replacements. What players do you think would fit better in a 3-4? I’ve got two maybes in Oliver and Edmunds. Oliver is on his 5th year option and Edmunds is an FA. So right now we have 1 excellent LB under contract in Milano. But we don’t have another one that’s even starting level. Since we do not actually play a 4-3 - we play almost exclusively Nickel - why incorporate a 3-4 at all? when would we even want to put that on the field? Edited February 4, 2023 by BarleyNY 2 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 6 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: We have been building a 4-3 defense since 2017 and it would take a complete overhaul to go to a defense never ran before by this coaching staff. I agree, but we hardly ever actually play 4-3. They are in nickel all the time so really not a true 4-3. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Instead of fewer defensive linemen, I was thinking more. If they let Edmunds walk, might as well replace him with another DT. Three DT's should help against the run and might produce a better pass rush. 5-1-5 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddo Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 I suppose we could do. At least that would give a good excuse to use up most of our picks on Defense again. We won the Division and made the playoffs with an awful lot of disruption. Maybe it's time to remember that we are still a good team, and changing the way our D operates, isn't the wisest course. We probably need another guy who can be disruptive on the D-Line, but much of the problems have stemmed from not having all of our best guys available when we needed them to be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipster19 Posted February 4, 2023 Author Share Posted February 4, 2023 37 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: What players do you think would fit better in a 3-4? I’ve got two maybes in Oliver and Edmunds. Oliver is on his 5th year option and Edmunds is an FA. So right now we have 1 excellent LB under contract in Milano. But we don’t have another one that’s even starting level. Since we do not actually play a 4-3 - we play almost exclusively Nickel - why incorporate a 3-4 at all? when would we even want to put that on the field? Utilize Rosseau, Lawson and Phillips as DEs, Von and Milano as outside LBs with Benford as a ILB. Draft a hog for DT and a couple of more LBs as well. We play nickel mostly so we have plenty of DBs for the system. 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: We have been building a 4-3 defense since 2017 and it would take a complete overhaul to go to a defense never ran before by this coaching staff. A 3-4-4 would be preferably to the 0-2-5 we run in the playoffs. It would provide 1 more person in coverage and three more pass rushers. Edited February 4, 2023 by Chaos 1 2 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 We don't have three starting caliber LBs to stick into our 4-3, how are we going to find four. If you're going to point to Beane's drafts, good luck with that. 54 minutes ago, The Wiz said: I agree, but we hardly ever actually play 4-3. They are in nickel all the time so really not a true 4-3. The reason for that is that we don't have three LBs of starting caliber. Poor drafting has left us a dearth of talent that needs to be worked around. But Beane's doing a great job. Sure he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 18 minutes ago, Buddo said: Maybe it's time to remember that we are still a good team, and changing the way our D operates, isn't the wisest course. After all, can't argue with the D's success in the playoffs. Oh, ... wait ... 😏 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) Sexy Rexy is ready for a comeback. Edited February 4, 2023 by Dopey 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern_Bills Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 No. Just no. Maybe if you fired the DC and hired a 3-4 guy and he gave assurances that he can make this roster work. Even then he's going to want a few pieces, which in turn takes away from the offense. I really wish we could just hire Jim Schwartz back in all honesty. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) 47 minutes ago, PBF81 said: The reason for that is that we don't have three LBs of starting caliber. Poor drafting has left us a dearth of talent that needs to be worked around. But Beane's doing a great job. Sure he is. The reason for that is because they have not tried to get a 3rd starting caliber LB because they don't play in a base 4-3. They play in nickel as their primary defense. As I already stated. Why would they waste a pick on another starting LB when they don't play 4-3? Who have they even tried to draft to add as something other than LB depth behind Milano and Edmunds? Edited February 4, 2023 by The Wiz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 We don’t have the linebackers to run that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Our hc isn't going to change a scheme he has been running for decades . Just need more talent getting to the passer. It now seems Von was a need more than a luxury. An elite pass rusher like Von makes this whole defense wayyyy better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phypon Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 This defensive scheme requires elite players all over the field. That's why it fails miserably at times and especially in the playoffs. The scheme sucks and is antiquated and figured out. It's a very stubborn scheme that doesn't work when it matters. It needs to be scrubbed and changed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: We have been building a 4-3 defense since 2017 and it would take a complete overhaul to go to a defense never ran before by this coaching staff. This is true, we’ve been building this defense for nearly 6 years. But that in itself is an indictment of the problem. 6 years and we still have a defense that folds like a table at the most important times. I don’t know if we need a completely different defensive philosophy, but something big needs to change. Maybe it’s drafting. Our back-up players or anyone drafted not named Milano or White isn’t cutting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichRiderBills Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 I feel this defense is fine to build on. Just need to tweak some items. Adjustments. We have to stop tackling high and need a few more studs in the secondary. Obviously, we need the D-line, Miller and Jones back and tweak a couple players to get more of a consistent rush. If we had an elite penetrating DT this defense would be amazing. Whatever happened versus the Bengals was a shame. I don't have an explanation for the game. Neither the poor call to give such soft cushion in coverage or why our Dline got no push against a weak OL. I felt like our players struggled for footing in the snow, whereas the Bengals did not, a fact that still mystifies me. Frankly, offense has to stop turning the ball over. That puts a lot on the Defense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 1 hour ago, Tipster19 said: Utilize Rosseau, Lawson and Phillips as DEs, Von and Milano as outside LBs with Benford as a ILB. Draft a hog for DT and a couple of more LBs as well. We play nickel mostly so we have plenty of DBs for the system. Rosseau and Lawson would be OLB in a 3-4. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 they should switch to the 5-6-5 Defense just for the playoffs each year 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 12 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said: I feel this defense is fine to build on. Just need to tweak some items. Adjustments. We have to stop tackling high and need a few more studs in the secondary. Obviously, we need the D-line, Miller and Jones back and tweak a couple players to get more of a consistent rush. If we had an elite penetrating DT this defense would be amazing. Whatever happened versus the Bengals was a shame. I don't have an explanation for the game. Neither the poor call to give such soft cushion in coverage or why our Dline got no push against a weak OL. I felt like our players struggled for footing in the snow, whereas the Bengals did not, a fact that still mystifies me. Frankly, offense has to stop turning the ball over. That puts a lot on the Defense. zero turnovers against the Bengals until long after the defense had lost the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4th&long Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 You run the D to fit your players. You don’t try to run a your scheme and try to make your players fit it. now this D is softer than a pillow but I don’t know if that means changing to a 3-4 is the answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: they should switch to the 5-6-5 Defense just for the playoffs each year Will the back 11 give a 10 yard cushion on third and five? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 The defense relies heavily on skill and less so on scheme. The Bills rarely come out of Nickel…they mix up sending a backer and dropping a lineman or sending an additional man on a blitz…but for the most part it’s about the “Jimmy’s and Joe’s”. I fear McD’s loyalty to someone he loves and respects will cloud his judgement on what is necessary to keep the D elite. Plus it is McD’s Defense, what would be great is to find a cord who uses the 4-3/Nickel a lot but also mixes up into different formations to confuse Offenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somnus00 Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 This conversation has some real 2003 vibes. I'm getting terrible flashbacks of the early drought years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Switch to a 3-4? They won’t take the nickel off the field on 2nd and 1. This team is calling the same defense every down like it’s preseason and just wondering why it can’t stop Burrow and Mahomes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 2 minutes ago, Chaos said: zero turnovers against the Bengals until long after the defense had lost the game. I am no fan of Frazier’s defense, but the Bills offense had an awful lot to do with the loss to the Bengals. The game was 17-10 deep into the third quarter. The Bills aren’t built to win a defensive struggle with anyone. They’re built to outscore them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 15 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: they should switch to the 5-6-5 Defense just for the playoffs each year That may allow them to get some pressure on the QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Just now, bmur66 said: That may allow them to get some pressure on the QB. that would be the 11-1-4 D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 13 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: I am no fan of Frazier’s defense, but the Bills offense had an awful lot to do with the loss to the Bengals. The game was 17-10 deep into the third quarter. The Bills aren’t built to win a defensive struggle with anyone. They’re built to outscore them. I will clear this up for you. The defense cost us any chance to win the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 3 hours ago, Tipster19 said: Between the players we have and the players that we’ll have coming up for new contracts it may be time to change the defensive philosophy. I also think that replacing and/or adding new players will be easier and cheaper to do. Looking at the current roster we already have plenty of the pieces in house. Adding more LBers will be needed but once again they should be pretty easy to find, especially in the draft where 4th and 5th rders can provide great replacements. You must not pay a lot of attention to McDermott as a human being if you think he's going to radically change how he does things from one year to the next. He's the most conservative man you'll ever meet, and I'd wager good money he thinks evolution is a hoax. He ain't changing crap! Don't think 3-4 is the answer, regardless, but it could have been an interesting conversation to a degree, if there was any chance of any change happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 2 hours ago, BarleyNY said: What players do you think would fit better in a 3-4? I’ve got two maybes in Oliver and Edmunds. Oliver is on his 5th year option and Edmunds is an FA. So right now we have 1 excellent LB under contract in Milano. But we don’t have another one that’s even starting level. Since we do not actually play a 4-3 - we play almost exclusively Nickel - why incorporate a 3-4 at all? when would we even want to put that on the field? Not saying that we should switch, but Baltimore played a 3-4 vs Cinci in the playoffs for the entire game. Any scheme will work with the proper game plan, coaching and execution. Our problem in season ending games has been a combination of all 3. I would’ve liked to make the switch IF we could’ve brought in Fangio. He’s the best defensive mind in the league imo. Now he’s the enemy. Good chance he’s going to take Dorsey to school next season. 15 minutes ago, Chaos said: I will clear this up for you. The defense cost us any chance to win the game. And the offense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pennstate10 Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 2 hours ago, Tipster19 said: Utilize Rosseau, Lawson and Phillips as DEs, Von and Milano as outside LBs with Benford as a ILB. Draft a hog for DT and a couple of more LBs as well. We play nickel mostly so we have plenty of DBs for the system. 205 lb CB at ILB in a 3-4. Bold move Cotton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 35 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: they should switch to the 5-6-5 Defense just for the playoffs each year I have seriously thought about getting rid of linebackers entirely, at least on a lot of plays. The concept of a "linebacker" is outdated in today's game. You need 2 kinds of guys out there: huge bodies on the line and who can get after the QB. The rest should be speedy guys with size/strength to tackle (all NFL players have that anyway)...and who can zip around covering receivers. What's with this in-between guy called a LB who isn't really big enough to pass rush or stuff the line, but not really fast enough to drop into pass coverage? On some plays, OK, put a few out there but most of the time I think I wouldn't use any! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 1 hour ago, The Wiz said: The reason for that is because they have not tried to get a 3rd starting caliber LB because they don't play in a base 4-3. They play in nickel as their primary defense. As I already stated. Why would they waste a pick on another starting LB when they don't play 4-3? Who have they even tried to draft to add as something other than LB depth behind Milano and Edmunds? Well, the only problem with that line of reasoning is that they did play a base 4-3 a couple of years ago, but were forced to abandon it because we had no capable LBs to fill those roles, particularly with Edmunds OJT-ing it and Milano primarily a pass-defending LB until late last and this seasons. Beane's drafting has led to poor day 1 and day 2 results. When you constantly have overlay your prior draft picks with picks at the same positions, you have no choice but to neglect other unit needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyMark Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 3 hours ago, BarleyNY said: What players do you think would fit better in a 3-4? I’ve got two maybes in Oliver and Edmunds. So Ed as an OLB? Interesting. I actually think they should try Ed as a FB like the Ravens do. But beyond that Ed is not a fit along the DL for a 3 -4 at all. Way way too small and delicate for the NT.....not long enough for the DE. I could see exploring the OLB with him, but I think it would quickly come to light how limited he is outside of a 3DT with a huge 1DT teammate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 58 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: they should switch to the 5-6-5 Defense just for the playoffs each year I'm a big fan of the 16 man defense if you can get away with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 1 hour ago, Nextmanup said: I have seriously thought about getting rid of linebackers entirely, at least on a lot of plays. The concept of a "linebacker" is outdated in today's game. You need 2 kinds of guys out there: huge bodies on the line and who can get after the QB. The rest should be speedy guys with size/strength to tackle (all NFL players have that anyway)...and who can zip around covering receivers. What's with this in-between guy called a LB who isn't really big enough to pass rush or stuff the line, but not really fast enough to drop into pass coverage? On some plays, OK, put a few out there but most of the time I think I wouldn't use any! nah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 We play a 4 down lineman alignment with nickel almost exclusively. Even 3-4 teams go with 4 DL when they play nickel. And when reams only rush 3 and drop 8 in very long yard to gain situations they aren't using a NT in that 3 DL pass rush. So no. A true NT is about as useless as a FB in modern NFL. Almost no college team plays with a NT so it would take quite a bit of time to develop. Oliver is not big enough to play a 3-4 DE but he could rush from the outside most likely. Lawson could maybe play a 3-4 DE. But Rousseau is strictly a 4-3 DE so you would be sacrificing one of the better young players on defense. So the answer is no. Bad idea. Its perfectly fine to rush 3 and drop 8 a couple times a game but the base defense should never be a 3-4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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