Bengals @ Bills - Post Game Thread - January 22, 2023 - NFL Divisional Round Playoffs

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Kill the thread.

 

 

[Low Positive]

46 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Kill the thread.

 

 

Kill all memory of this game, at least for a while. 

[CincyBillsFan]

11 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Zach Taylor is kind of the exception to the rule  “head coaches take a while to develop” 

 

Well, him and Sirianni 

 

Regarding Callahan, actually I just checked and Reich called the plays for the Colts when Sirianni was OC there.

So I guess the Colts would feel there’s precedent for an OC who doesn’t call the plays nevertheless apparently knowing what he’s doing

Don' forget McVay in LA. 

[Beck Water]

17 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Don' forget McVay in LA. 

 

He called them for Kevin O'Connell?

[newcam2012]

11 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 We were still playing really good defense even being down Hyde and White. Hyde was gone in a flash, 4th quarter of the 2nd game. After he was lost 3 out of the next 4 games were against teams scoring alot of points at the time. Miami, Baltimore & KC and the defense only gave up 21, 20 & 20. What makes that more impressive is all those games were on the road. And even the 21 for Miami is a bit misleading as the Dolphins strip sacked Allen and they recovered inside our 10 yard line leading to an easy td. And 2 turnovers directly led to 10 of Baltimore's points. A 4 yard td drive after an Allen pick and a 12 yard fg drive after a Singletary fumble. The Pittsburgh game was sandwiched in the middle of those games and they only gave of 3. So those 4 games they gave up only 64 total points with 17 coming from turnovers by the offense. That's a pretty impressive streak.

 

 For Frazier's defense to really work he needs a healthy Hyde, Poyer, White & Johnson. If those 4 are healthy and he has a Von Miller, Groot and a healthy Oliver & Jones then his defense can be very good, but who couldn'twith that talent. He can get to the passer and play a more completed scheme on the back end. But I also agree it would be nice to see what a different defensive mind could do here. Next year, even if Poyer does leave, we'll still have 4 players on defense that have been All-Pros. Hopefully they all will be healthy. And no more games on Thanksgiving please. First Tre then Von, both ACL injuries.

 

 

 

 

I'd like to ask you when has a Fraizer defense stopped a quality playoff offense? I can't recall one time he has with the Bills. He has failed repeatedly and its resulted in multiple early Bills playoff exits. This year is no different. All teams have injuries and those excuses are just that excuses. Last year it was Tre. This year it was Hyde and Miller. Next year it will be...

Edited January 25, 2023 by newcam2012

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

I'd like to ask you when has a Fraizer defense stopped a quality playoff offense? I can't recall one time he has with the Bills. He has failed repeatedly and its resulted in multiple early Bills playoff exits. This year is no different. All teams have injuries and those excuses are just that excuses. Last year it was Tre. This year it was Hyde and Miller. Next year it will be...

Only one I can think of was BAL and they weren’t lighting the world on fire. Frazier also had success vs Jackson in regular season games so it just carried over. Patriots offense was not a top unit either. Overall his defenses have been less than impressive in playoff games. The Bills playoff wins were largely due to Josh Allen. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Crazy stat just shows the Bills weren’t ready to play a football game. Or it shows how good DaQuan Jones was.

 

 

[GETTOTHE50]

14 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Crazy stat just shows the Bills weren’t ready to play a football game. Or it shows how good DaQuan Jones was.

 

 

3 back ups lmaooooooo

[Buffalo_Stampede]

8 minutes ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

3 back ups lmaooooooo

Technically so did we.

[fergie's ire]

18 hours ago, klos63 said:

I blame god for stopping his heart.  He hates the Bills. 

Stevie?  Is that you?

[Boatdrinks]

24 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Crazy stat just shows the Bills weren’t ready to play a football game. Or it shows how good DaQuan Jones was.

 

 

Definitely missed Jones. Best run stuffing DL on the Bills and turns out it was a day that called for it. 

[jkeerie]

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I'd like to ask you when has a Fraizer defense stopped a quality playoff offense? I can't recall one time he has with the Bills. He has failed repeatedly and its resulted in multiple early Bills playoff exits. This year is no different. All teams have injuries and those excuses are just that excuses. Last year it was Tre. This year it was Hyde and Miller. Next year it will be...

There was only one game this year when I appreciated Frazier.  That was the KC game.  The defense he dialed up on the last play that resulted in Mahomes getting picked off by Taron was masterful.  Having said that, I think too many times he coaches scared.  There was not a DB within 10 yards of the Bengal receivers in this last game.  I'm so done with his passive defenses.  

[newcam2012]

4 hours ago, jkeerie said:

There was only one game this year when I appreciated Frazier.  That was the KC game.  The defense he dialed up on the last play that resulted in Mahomes getting picked off by Taron was masterful.  Having said that, I think too many times he coaches scared.  There was not a DB within 10 yards of the Bengal receivers in this last game.  I'm so done with his passive defenses.  

Even when he dailed up blitzes they were gobbled up by the Cinci 2nd string offensive line. 

 

Look at what Anarumo dailed up. Timely exotic blitzes coming from various angles and getting to Allen. 

 

To be fair, I don't think any scheme or coaching up was going to lead the Bills to a win. They Bengals were and are better than the Bills by a lot. The gap is really big and even good coaching probably doesn't close it enough. Burrow looks like the next Tom Brady, their WR combo might be the best in the league, Anarumo is an elite D coordinator, Mixon and Perine are moons better than Singletary and Cook, their pass rush and Dline is better, and their Oline isn't great but it was vs the Bills. 

 

I'm done with Fraizer too. I've seen enough to know that his scheme and defenses are nice for regular seadon games. His stats will look great to very good. Come playoff time his defense will not get it done. Its really that simple. Sure it's not all on him. I'd rather go down swinging with an aggressive defense. Look at how Miami went ultra aggressive vs the Bills. 

 

Also, I'm not a believer in Dorsey either. I know Josh gave his blessings so that was likely the decider to hire him. However, why go with a rookie OC who had accomplished very little when you are in win it all mode? For most of the year the offense struggled to have an identity. Was it a quick  passing team?, a methodical march down the field and burn the clock offense?, a deep strike offense?, a pound the rock offense?, a playground like offense and let Allen cook?

 

I know each game plan varies depending on your opponent. However, I never felt like the Bills offense with the exception of the first quarter of the season was in sync and in rhythm. The Dorsey offense lacked creativity and seemed predictable. How is he going to be better next year? 

Edited January 26, 2023 by newcam2012

[Scott7975]

Id rather Chan Gailey came out of retirement to be our OC at this point.  They guy could dial up screens, run the spread, had timely runs that made sense and kept the defense off guard, and had timely downfield throws.

 

Dorsey needs to severely up his game next year.

[klos63]

3 hours ago, fergie's ire said:

Stevie?  Is that you?

Why so serious?

[Coffeesforclosers]

3 hours ago, jkeerie said:

There was only one game this year when I appreciated Frazier.  That was the KC game.  The defense he dialed up on the last play that resulted in Mahomes getting picked off by Taron was masterful.  Having said that, I think too many times he coaches scared.  There was not a DB within 10 yards of the Bengal receivers in this last game.  I'm so done with his passive defenses.  

 

Frazier had us in coaching purgatory. His scheme is good enough to win 11-13 games every regular season.

 

But once he hits the post season, he goes nuts and starts adding checks and audibles to every call.  Bills players were telling the cover 1 guys he has up to 15 checks per defensive playcall in the post season. And just the post season.  When it hits crunch time, he stops letting his guys play, and starts making his guys think.  Because he's chasing the perfect defensive call.

 

It's just insane. Then you have McD running down the sidelines, burning timeouts because somebody isn't lined up right, or couldn't get off the field in time. On account of the can't remember which of the 15 checks they're supposed to be in.  Which is a knock on McD too, because he must be ok with this ***** on some level. 

 

Meanwhile, guys like Joe Burrow, who know Frazier's tendencies just ignore all his attempts at baits and disguises. Then check it down for 5-7 yards, or throw hot to a first class receiver working with a 10 yard cushion. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Coffeesforclosers

[The Frankish Reich]

6 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

All teams have injuries and those excuses are just that excuses. Last year it was Tre. This year it was Hyde and Miller.

Well ... Tre, Hyde, and Miller are 3 of your 4 or 5 (Milano, Poyer) best players on defense. Frazier did a fantastic job holding it together during the season, and I'm not really sure that the secondary we were putting out there in the playoffs could have done better with lots of blitz action, etc. Tyreek, Waddle, Chase ... we would've been burned deep, and more than once.

So was it the best possible defensive scheme? No, in retrospect it wasn't. But the loss of some major playmakers out there had a profound effect.

[The Frankish Reich]

54 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

ills players were telling the cover 1 guys he has up to 15 checks per defensive playcall in the post season. And just the post season.  When it hits crunch time, he stops letting his guys play, and starts making his guys think.  Because he's chasing the perfect defensive call.

Interesting, and that may explain a lot - taking a bend/don't break defense by design and making it even more passive in the postseason.

[billsfan3482]

2 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Id rather Chan Gailey came out of retirement to be our OC at this point.  They guy could dial up screens, run the spread, had timely runs that made sense and kept the defense off guard, and had timely downfield throws.

 

Dorsey needs to severely up his game next year.

Exactly. We need an experienced Offensive guru type of OC.  I think Dorseys a play caller!! Not a offense mind of technics and schemes to put players in position to succeed. I think Reich is that guy, his offense gave us trouble without an Allen type of QB. I think he would give us a run game and work great with Allen 

 

We've seen no difference or improvement all year on offense, Zero creativity.   I don't see him "upping his game next year at all"

Like, is he  going to design plays over the summer? Is he going to google football offensive plays?  Hell, while watching tape of other games he could have easily stole some creative, fun or easy plays and put it in our playbook.

Edited January 26, 2023 by billsfan3482

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Well ... Tre, Hyde, and Miller are 3 of your 4 or 5 (Milano, Poyer) best players on defense. Frazier did a fantastic job holding it together during the season, and I'm not really sure that the secondary we were putting out there in the playoffs could have done better with lots of blitz action, etc. Tyreek, Waddle, Chase ... we would've been burned deep, and more than once.

So was it the best possible defensive scheme? No, in retrospect it wasn't. But the loss of some major playmakers out there had a profound effect.

I agree but good teams find ways to win. Cinci was down 3 ol starters. They manhandled  the Bills DL. Mahomes played on one leg and KC still won. Miami had a 3td string QB and almost beat Bflo. Buffalo had a healthy Allen and Diggs and were at home. Experienced players and coaches as well. The Bills result was abysmal. That doesn't all fall on injuries. Something has to chamge or it will likely happen again next year. I'll be looking for upgrades in the team and coaches as well. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by newcam2012

[newcam2012]

36 minutes ago, billsfan3482 said:

Exactly. We need an experienced Offensive guru type of OC.  I think Dorseys a play caller!! Not a offense mind of technics and schemes to put players in position to succeed. I think Reich is that guy, his offense gave us trouble without an Allen type of QB. I think he would give us a run game and work great with Allen 

 

We've seen no difference or improvement all year on offense, Zero creativity.   I don't see him "upping his game next year at all"

Like, is he  going to design plays over the summer? Is he going to google football offensive plays?  Hell, while watching tape of other games he could have easily stole some creative, fun or easy plays and put it in our playbook.

Great perspective. Agree a play caller but the other in depth needed skills aren't there. The Bills offense paid a deep price for his inexperience and lack of depth. 

 

Bills offense was excellent in 3rd down conversions. I'd agree it was more Allen's credit than Dorsey. That down is known as the QB down for a reason. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by newcam2012

[97bills]

On 1/24/2023 at 8:22 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

We dont have to fire Frazier. Just let his contract expire shortly. This organization/ coaches won't have the stones to fire Dorsey being it's his first year.  Just super disappointing how much he's NOT similar to Daboll.

So keep Frazier one more year…. Why? 

[Boatdrinks]

4 minutes ago, 97bills said:

So keep Frazier one more year…. Why? 

His contract is up. Just don’t renew him. He would not return for the upcoming 2023 season. 

[97bills]

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

His contract is up. Just don’t renew him. He would not return for the upcoming 2023 season. 

Ok didn’t no that …. I thought he had one more year. Boy if they resign him to 5 years this fan base is going to lose it lol. 

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, 97bills said:

Ok didn’t no that …. I thought he had one more year. Boy if they resign him to 5 years this fan base is going to lose it lol. 

I would too. Fortunately I don’t see that happening. 

[reddogblitz]

13 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Only one I can think of was BAL and they weren’t lighting the world on fire. Frazier also had success vs Jackson in regular season games so it just carried over. Patriots offense was not a top unit either. Overall his defenses have been less than impressive in playoff games. The Bills playoff wins were largely due to Josh Allen. 

 

Frazier's defense held Baltimore to 3 points and were responsible for 7 points due to the Taron Johnson pick 6 at the end of of the 3rd quarter.  The offense scored 10.    the final score was 17-3.  The Ravens were 2nd in scoring that year.  Yet somehow the win was "largely due to Josh Allen"?

[LeGOATski]

12 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Id rather Chan Gailey came out of retirement to be our OC at this point.  They guy could dial up screens, run the spread, had timely runs that made sense and kept the defense off guard, and had timely downfield throws.

 

Dorsey needs to severely up his game next year.

I would love that. The Bills would still need a bell cow back like Fred Jackson to pair with Cooks (our CJ Spiller).

[MILFHUNTER#518]

12 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Id rather Chan Gailey came out of retirement to be our OC at this point.  They guy could dial up screens, run the spread, had timely runs that made sense and kept the defense off guard, and had timely downfield throws.

 

Dorsey needs to severely up his game next year.

That was with just marginal talent, just imagine what he could do with the personnel on the current roster.

[Fan in Chicago]

8 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

His contract is up. Just don’t renew him. He would not return for the upcoming 2023 season. 

Two possibilities:

- Beane and McD are still evaluating the season and eventually conclude that Frazier should be back --> no further action required by Beane

- They decide to change DCs --> Timing becomes important here as teams with vacancies start filling out their coaching team. I for one do not want a rookie DC, no matter how bright he/she is seen to be. We need experienced hands at the controls

 

When is the last date for his contract? I couldnt find it with a Google search

 

(Note that I personally don't believe McD will fire Frazier without resigning himself)

[Coffeesforclosers]

11 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Interesting, and that may explain a lot - taking a bend/don't break defense by design and making it even more passive in the postseason.

 

Yeah. It gets worse for Frazier. 

 

During the Bengals game, he'd change the scheme up completely on certain 3rd Downs. The Bills would run a 3 man Odd Rush with Matt Milano spying Joe Burrow.

 

I don't know what an Odd Rush is, but Burrow's passer rating vs. this alignment was something like 40.  However, Frazier only ran it a handful of times.  The Bills had more pressures, more negative plays and forced more incompletions rushing 3 with a Spy and dropping 7 than they did with 5 and 6 man blitzes.  So you'd figure once your team had given up it's 20th 1st Down in a playoff game, the DC goes ***** it, I'll try whatever is working.  But not our Leslie.  He went right back to his comfort zone and we were cut to ribbons. 

 

[The Frankish Reich]

3 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Cooks (our CJ Spiller).

You really had to go there (the CJ Spiller reference)!

I see what you mean though. Chan did get great value out of Spiller at the start. He knew how to get speed backs into the open field, which is something Dorsey basically never did. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I really hope our solution to fixing the issue isn’t just firing the safety coach. The entire defensive room is long over due for a clean out

[major]

2 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I really hope our solution to fixing the issue isn’t just firing the safety coach. The entire defensive room is long over due for a clean out

Scapegoat. And of all things, a coach that had the most injuries on his side of the ball. Problems solved 🤦‍♂️😄

[zow2]

Apparently, Brady was saying that playing in light snow, slippery conditions is great for offense.  All you do is play pitch and catch.  CB's and edge rushers can't get their footing.  

 

Well, that explains why our DB's were watching Burrow play catch with his receivers and our Dline didn't even touch Joe.

 

It's astounding how bad our coaching was on that day.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

8 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Frazier's defense held Baltimore to 3 points and were responsible for 7 points due to the Taron Johnson pick 6 at the end of of the 3rd quarter.  The offense scored 10.    the final score was 17-3.  The Ravens were 2nd in scoring that year.  Yet somehow the win was "largely due to Josh Allen"?

Frazier's scheme has eyes always looking back at the QB and hence the Bills D tends to do REALLY well versus running QBs (e.g., Justin Fields). Plus they have fast LBs who can run and chase down QBs well. The other thing about the Raves game is that it was a high-wind game (lots of missed field goals) that totally undercut the passing games for both teams.

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, major said:

Scapegoat. And of all things, a coach that had the most injuries on his side of the ball. Problems solved 🤦‍♂️😄

Yup. We were down to a 3rd and then 4th string Safety . Poyer was beat up bad. If we had the Poyer/Hyde combo I think it's a different game 

 

This system relies so much on the safety position and disguising their coverage,  which Poyer and Hyde mastered 

[Meatloaf63]

21 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Even when he dailed up blitzes they were gobbled up by the Cinci 2nd string offensive line. 

 

Look at what Anarumo dailed up. Timely exotic blitzes coming from various angles and getting to Allen. 

 

To be fair, I don't think any scheme or coaching up was going to lead the Bills to a win. They Bengals were and are better than the Bills by a lot. The gap is really big and even good coaching probably doesn't close it enough. Burrow looks like the next Tom Brady, their WR combo might be the best in the league, Anarumo is an elite D coordinator, Mixon and Perine are moons better than Singletary and Cook, their pass rush and Dline is better, and their Oline isn't great but it was vs the Bills. 

 

I'm done with Fraizer too. I've seen enough to know that his scheme and defenses are nice for regular seadon games. His stats will look great to very good. Come playoff time his defense will not get it done. Its really that simple. Sure it's not all on him. I'd rather go down swinging with an aggressive defense. Look at how Miami went ultra aggressive vs the Bills. 

 

Also, I'm not a believer in Dorsey either. I know Josh gave his blessings so that was likely the decider to hire him. However, why go with a rookie OC who had accomplished very little when you are in win it all mode? For most of the year the offense struggled to have an identity. Was it a quick  passing team?, a methodical march down the field and burn the clock offense?, a deep strike offense?, a pound the rock offense?, a playground like offense and let Allen cook?

 

I know each game plan varies depending on your opponent. However, I never felt like the Bills offense with the exception of the first quarter of the season was in sync and in rhythm. The Dorsey offense lacked creativity and seemed predictable. How is he going to be better next year? 

The coaching gap is that big, the player gap not so much…

[Fan in Chicago]

1 hour ago, zow2 said:

Apparently, Brady was saying that playing in light snow, slippery conditions is great for offense.  All you do is play pitch and catch.  CB's and edge rushers can't get their footing.  

 

Well, that explains why our DB's were watching Burrow play catch with his receivers and our Dline didn't even touch Joe.

 

It's astounding how bad our coaching was on that day.

 

 

Our O was also playing on the same field under the same conditions with decidedly lower level of effectiveness. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Fan in Chicago

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, zow2 said:

Apparently, Brady was saying that playing in light snow, slippery conditions is great for offense.  All you do is play pitch and catch.  CB's and edge rushers can't get their footing.  

 

Well, that explains why our DB's were watching Burrow play catch with his receivers and our Dline didn't even touch Joe.

 

It's astounding how bad our coaching was on that day.

 

 

It really should favor the offense…our offensive line was an absolute disaster.  Bengals dline seemed completely unaffected by the conditions too which didn’t help lol
 

last time we got that light snow against Miami the Miami dline was on roller skates to close that one out after playing well the whole game up to that point  

 

the defense was terrible too but the offense was the big disappointment for me.  No hyde, no von, tre still getting up to speed after his acl recovery, poyer playing with some serious injuries, slippery footing which usually favors the offense…I feel like the defense has some built in excuses.  
 

the offense had to find a way to win that one and they weren’t even competitive 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[newcam2012]

56 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

The coaching gap is that big, the player gap not so much…

Don't lie to yourself. The Bengals have a lot more player talent than the Bills. 

 

They are light years ahead of Buffalo in the WR category. 

 

Obviously, both their lines are by far superior than the Bills. 

 

At this point Burrow is better than Allen. Hate to say it but he looks almost flawless when he plays. The guy knows how to carve an offense, escape pressure, and lead his team to big wins. He's a winner!  He's not as physically gifted but I believe he's a better all around QB. He looks Tom Brady like while Allen looks like Brett Favre. High risk and high reward. 

 

The Bills are better on special teams. That's about it. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by newcam2012