Kyler Murray: How did the Cardinals fall for it?

[Mikie2times]

After watching him get dismantled and quit on his team in the playoffs. Including a clause in his initial contract that required him to put in additional time studying. Then seeing his agent put out a public statement basically demanding a new contract. It looked awful as far as how it reflected on what's supposed to be the leader of your team. At the time all I could think of was he knew defenses were figuring him out and he did not want to play another year risking what damage would be done to his next contract. His leveraging, to my surprise, worked. I have no idea what Arizona was thinking. They had all of 2022 with a 2023 option. Instead they're on the hook for 230 million with 190 of it guaranteed.  

 

Watching this guy, I would be so disappointed if I was a Cardinal fan. Running around like this is arena ball just to float a wounded duck 15 yards. He just doesn't have NFL skills.  Even in today's dual threat era, he doesn't have the skills to be successful.  I think perhaps the greatest curse a team can fall victim to is paying a Franchise QB without really knowing for sure if he is. If I'm an NFL GM I have a rule in place. If my QB makes to the last year of his deal and I don't know for sure, move on. The risk of making the wrong decision in this spot will kill your franchise. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by KzooMike

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Bidwill loves Steve Keim, that's why. The Bidwill family has NEVER been sharp as ownership and it explains why they have been lost as a franchise for decades. Sure they struck gold for a couple of seasons, but their track record SUCKS. Keim is the one that did the deal for Murray, and until Bidwill fires him, others like Kingsbury will get the axe and Kyler will keep getting paid.

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, KzooMike said:

After watching him get dismantled and quit on his team in the playoffs. Including a clause in his initial contract that required him to put in additional time studying. Then seeing his agent put out a public statement basically demanding a new contract. It looked awful as far as how it reflected on what's supposed to be the leader of your team. At the time all I could think of was he knew defenses were figuring him out and he did not want to play another year risking what damage would be done to his next contract. His leveraging, to my surprise, worked. I have no idea what Arizona was thinking. They had all of 2022 with a 2023 option. Instead they're on the hook for 230 million with 190 of it guaranteed.  

 

Watching this guy, I would be so disappointed if I was a Cardinal fan. Running around like this is arena ball just to float a wounded duck 15 yards. He just doesn't have NFL skills.  Even in today's dual threat error, he doesn't have the skills to be successful.  I think perhaps the greatest curse a team can fall victim to is paying a Franchise QB without really knowing for sure if he is. If I'm an NFL GM I have a rule in place. If my QB makes to the last year of his deal and I don't know for sure, move on. The risk of making the wrong decision in this spot will kill your franchise. 

You are 100% wrong in your assessment of Kyler Murray's physical ability.

 

His problem is between the ears.  Period.

[DrBob806]

It's weird how the Cardinals were 7-0 to begin their 2021 season, and have regressed so bad since.

 

 

[Trock]

Murray is pretty bad but not the reason for their collapse. 

[17islongenough]

At least they didn't pay him after giving up 2 firsts, 2 seconds, some other picks and then 3 players

Edited November 28, 2022 by 17islongenough

[Airseven]

Murray is an immature, chuck-n-duck, water bug. His speed is his only above-average asset, but he fears contact so even that can’t be maximized.

 

Also, the study clause was in his new contract until it became a public distraction and the team supposedly removed it.

 

 

[Mikie2times]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You are 100% wrong in your assessment of Kyler Murray's physical ability.

 

His problem is between the ears.  Period.

Sorry, but his height does hinder him. This isn't college. Just because he can run around like his head is cut off and find some throwing lanes, he does not possess the zip on the ball or the accuracy in the short and intermediate passing game.  So he makes some plays once and awhile. He's a hell of an athlete, but his deficiencies limit him.  Watching him is literally identical to watching Flutie. If he has issues between his ears outside of just lacking the skills to be a pro football QB than I don't know what to say. I wouldn't take him if you paid me.  

[H2o]

The same way the Broncos fell for it with Russell Wilson. 

[McBean]

They should’ve just stayed with Rosen and developed him…

 

😂😂

[Starr Almighty]

2 minutes ago, H2o said:

The same way the Broncos fell for it with Russell Wilson. 

DangerSus was alot better than Kyler

2 minutes ago, McBean said:

They should’ve just stayed with Rosen and developed him…

 

😂😂

His name is right Josh 😂

[Don Otreply]

  There is an abundance of bad decision making concerning QBs in the league as we have seen over the years, and it’s getting worse annually. The term “Franchise QB” is used far to loosely, just because a given QB is the starter does not mean he is a “Franchise QB”. There are maybe eight actual franchise QBs in the league in any given year tops. That said, it always makes me happy to see a team that is not the Bills pay dearly for crappy QBs, it just increases the odds that our team has prolonged success, 😁👍. 
 

GO BILLS!!!
 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Don Otreply said:

  There is an abundance of bad decision making concerning QBs in the league as we have seen over the years, and it’s getting worse annually. The term “Franchise QB” is used far to loosely, just because a given QB is the starter does not mean he is a “Franchise QB”. There are maybe eight actual franchise QBs in the league in any given year tops. That said, it always makes me happy to see a team that is not the Bills pay dearly for crappy QBs, it just increases the odds that our team has prolonged success, 😁👍. 
 

GO BILLS!!!
 

Which guys are your eight? 

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, KzooMike said:

Sorry, but his height does hinder him. This isn't college. Just because he can run around like his head is cut off and find some throwing lanes, he does not possess the zip on the ball or the accuracy in the short and intermediate passing game.  So he makes some plays once and awhile. He's a hell of an athlete, but his deficiencies limit him.  Watching him is literally identical to watching Flutie. If he has issues between his ears outside of just lacking the skills to be a pro football QB than I don't know what to say. I wouldn't take him if you paid me.  

Kyler Murray's biggest problem is that he doesn't appear to care about being a great NFL QB or a great leader.  So much of succeeding at this level, especially as a QB, is above the shoulders.

 

Yes, he's short. Yes, that isn't a plus. But he can be a good QB, because he HAS been a good QB.

 

But you can't be a bad leader and a good QB.  You can't be a poor student of the game and a good QB.

 

If you look at the loooooooooooooong history of the NFL, and look at all the QB's who have ever played, a lot of them weren't giants.  A lot of them didn't have the strongest arm in the game. But none of the good ones were crappy leaders. None of the good ones needed to be hounded by their coaching staff to study film, or work on their game.

 

Murray wants to roll out of bed, dominate, then go home and play video games. He was good enough to do that in college. He isn't good enough to do that in the NFL.  His team knows this, which is why they tried to force him to do so in the contract they gave him.

[NewEra]

12 minutes ago, DrBob806 said:

It's weird how the Cardinals were 7-0 to begin their 2021 season, and have regressed so bad since.

 

 

Imagine how bad we would regress if Diggs missed the rest of the year and got suspended for peds the first half of next year?  We’d probably trade our first rd pick for Hollywood brown.  Losing Hopkins was devastating.

 

Other massive contributing factors-

 

Kyler just doesn’t have the mentality to be an elite qb-   jmo from my couch.  

 

kingsbury is out of his league.  
 

bleh OL- bleh D

[H2o]

2 minutes ago, Starr Almighty said:

DangerSus was alot better than Kyler

Was he really though? I'm thinking more along the lines of Pete Carroll is a genius and hid Russ' flaws all of these years. Look what he's getting out of Geno right now, the same Geno Smith who hasn't done squat in the NFL up to this point. Russ is a bum

[Don Otreply]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Which guys are your eight? 

Depends on a given season, right now, Mahomes, Allen, maybe three or four, more, but really, right now, hell your guess is as good as anyones…

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, Don Otreply said:

Depends on a given season, right now, Mahomes, Allen, maybe three or four, more, but really, right now, hell your guess is as good as anyones…

Not trying to start an argument but if the list changes from year to year then I’d say those other guys aren’t really Franchise QBs. I believe the very definition is that they transcend the year to year up and downs. 

[Mikie2times]

2 minutes ago, H2o said:

Was he really though? I'm thinking more along the lines of Pete Carroll is a genius and hid Russ' flaws all of these years. Look what he's getting out of Geno right now, the same Geno Smith who hasn't done squat in the NFL up to this point. Russ is a bum

Russ was better than Kyler at the same age. Not as good an athlete but better QB skills. With Russ, I just don't think his style of play ages well. Not like Kyler's will either, Russ is just older. It is a bit ironic, with all this talk of Kyler not being a leader some have accused Russ of the same. Further, both QB's could have played major league baseball. 

[Aussie Joe]

23 minutes ago, Trock said:

Murray is pretty bad but not the reason for their collapse. 

Not the only reason…

 

It’s hard to be optimistic about him though …

 

That contract … sheesh… what an albatross 

[3rdnlng]

23 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You are 100% wrong in your assessment of Kyler Murray's physical ability.

 

His problem is between the ears.  Period.

Yes, his problem is between his ears but it's also an athletic problem because he refuses to exercise his brain.

[RyanC883]

29 minutes ago, 17islongenough said:

At least they didn't pay him after giving up 2 firsts, 2 seconds, some other picks and then 3 players

 

is that what Cle did for Watson?  

[17islongenough]

Just now, RyanC883 said:

 

is that what Cle did for Watson?  

That's what Denver gave up for Wilson.   Still to early to tell on Watson

[Bubba Gump]

He has pictures 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

45 minutes ago, KzooMike said:

After watching him get dismantled and quit on his team in the playoffs. Including a clause in his initial contract that required him to put in additional time studying. Then seeing his agent put out a public statement basically demanding a new contract. It looked awful as far as how it reflected on what's supposed to be the leader of your team. At the time all I could think of was he knew defenses were figuring him out and he did not want to play another year risking what damage would be done to his next contract. His leveraging, to my surprise, worked. I have no idea what Arizona was thinking. They had all of 2022 with a 2023 option. Instead they're on the hook for 230 million with 190 of it guaranteed.  

 

Watching this guy, I would be so disappointed if I was a Cardinal fan. Running around like this is arena ball just to float a wounded duck 15 yards. He just doesn't have NFL skills.  Even in today's dual threat era, he doesn't have the skills to be successful.  I think perhaps the greatest curse a team can fall victim to is paying a Franchise QB without really knowing for sure if he is. If I'm an NFL GM I have a rule in place. If my QB makes to the last year of his deal and I don't know for sure, move on. The risk of making the wrong decision in this spot will kill your franchise. 

 

Agree, there have so many of these stories about QB's who look pretty good, but not really good enough.  But  there's a huge shortage of actual franchise QB's so teams take chances.  Rather than as you suggest letting them walk if not certain, they double down for fear that starting over is harder and no assurances that won't be in the same spot in another4 years.  At least they know what they have in the present guy.

 

If there were no salary cap in the NFL many of these guys would be OK.  But once you give your QB franchise money, you have to make cuts and weaken the team in other areas.  That's when you find out this guy can't carry the team.  There's probably about a dozen either great or very good franchise QB's in the league that are worth the money they are being paid, but probably another dozen making close to the same money, but not worth it and now the rest of the team has been gutted. 

 

IMO the QB position is in better shape today than it's been in the last 25 years with more guys being worth the money, but still nto enough to go around for all the teams

[BarleyNY]

Because GMs and HCs are invented to keep their jobs and get their next contract. They don’t need to win a SB to do that, they need to have successful seasons. They have a better chance of doing that with a known commodity than rolling the dice again. I give Berry and the Browns a lot of credit for cutting bait with Mayfield and acquiring a QB who can be elite.

[clayboy54]

9 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Because GMs and HCs are invented to keep their jobs and get their next contract. They don’t need to win a SB to do that, they need to have successful seasons. They have a better chance of doing that with a known commodity than rolling the dice again. I give Berry and the Browns a lot of credit for cutting bait with Mayfield and acquiring a QB who can be elite.

He can be elite in the penitentiary league.

[Mikie2times]

14 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Because GMs and HCs are invented to keep their jobs and get their next contract. They don’t need to win a SB to do that, they need to have successful seasons. They have a better chance of doing that with a known commodity than rolling the dice again. I give Berry and the Browns a lot of credit for cutting bait with Mayfield and acquiring a QB who can be elite.

Watson aside, I give the Browns major props for cutting ties with Baker and not allowing themselves to be at a crossroads near the end of a contract. They avoided what Arizona could not. 

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, KzooMike said:

After watching him get dismantled and quit on his team in the playoffs. Including a clause in his initial contract that required him to put in additional time studying. Then seeing his agent put out a public statement basically demanding a new contract. It looked awful as far as how it reflected on what's supposed to be the leader of your team. At the time all I could think of was he knew defenses were figuring him out and he did not want to play another year risking what damage would be done to his next contract. His leveraging, to my surprise, worked. I have no idea what Arizona was thinking. They had all of 2022 with a 2023 option. Instead they're on the hook for 230 million with 190 of it guaranteed.  

 

Watching this guy, I would be so disappointed if I was a Cardinal fan. Running around like this is arena ball just to float a wounded duck 15 yards. He just doesn't have NFL skills.  Even in today's dual threat era, he doesn't have the skills to be successful.  I think perhaps the greatest curse a team can fall victim to is paying a Franchise QB without really knowing for sure if he is. If I'm an NFL GM I have a rule in place. If my QB makes to the last year of his deal and I don't know for sure, move on. The risk of making the wrong decision in this spot will kill your franchise. 

 

I don’t know if you’re right or wrong, but this is a great post.

[klos63]

Had a good game today, 3 TD's, made a lot of plays. He's not the reason they lost today. He's still better than most QB's in the league, although that doesn't say much. He'll be good for a while, not sure if he'll be great again, he has a lot of weapons , but I don't think he has a good coach.

[Mikie2times]

6 minutes ago, klos63 said:

Had a good game today, 3 TD's, made a lot of plays. He's not the reason they lost today. He's still better than most QB's in the league, although that doesn't say much. He'll be good for a while, not sure if he'll be great again, he has a lot of weapons , but I don't think he has a good coach.

I don't think we watched the same game. He constantly bailed out of the play design. Couldn't do anything in the 4th quarter. Looked average. Which is what he is. I can name 15 QB's I would rather have, 10 in a landslide. 

 

 

[Kenosha2Buffalo]

It's funny since the hail Murray we skyrocketed and they plummeted

[WyoAZBillfan]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

You are 100% wrong in your assessment of Kyler Murray's physical ability.

 

His problem is between the ears.  Period.

I think your assessment is 100% accurate, however he does throw ducks after moving his feet approximately 3 miles covering 7 yards (twitchy or quick?), seems to move a ton without ever really going far. Anyways, he’s going to suck that franchise for years IMO. 

[Don Otreply]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Not trying to start an argument but if the list changes from year to year then I’d say those other guys aren’t really Franchise QBs. I believe the very definition is that they transcend the year to year up and downs. 

Correct and that is why there are so few actual “Franchise QBs”

[US Egg]

Murray is a 1st round MLB pick.

 

Maybe he can go give that a try.

 

His trolls will no doubt follow him.

[Malazan]

You guys are way too harsh. Just like how Josh Allen is the leading rusher and the QB week after week being the best at two things.. no one else in the NFL is being their teams QB and best call of duty player every week. 

[CorkScrewHill]

My list:

Top QB: Mahomes

 

Franchise QBs: Josh, Burrow

Potential but need to see more: Hurts, Tua, Herbert, Watson, Jackson

 

Former franchise QBs: Rodgers, Brady

 

So three definite franchise QBs in my opinion which seems light, but I cannot say I trust any others at this point to stay up there .. though Hurts and Tua seemed best positioned.

[BreezeMafia]

Simple - Leadership, or in Kyler's case, lack there of.

Edited November 28, 2022 by BillsinChesterSprings

[Matt_In_NH]

Murray is talented, he pushed the issue.  The reality is a talented QB has a lot of leverage.....but yeah the Cardinals should have stood their ground.  Glad this did not happen in Buffalo.

[BarleyNY]

9 hours ago, clayboy54 said:

He can be elite in the penitentiary league.

Certainly a lot can be said about that aspect of it. But if I’m being honest I doubt there are many owners who really care about the morality of their players beyond how it can hurt the team’s win totals with suspensions, etc.