Kyler Murray: How did the Cardinals fall for it?

[Mr. WEO]

10 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

Bidwill loves Steve Keim, that's why. The Bidwill family has NEVER been sharp as ownership and it explains why they have been lost as a franchise for decades. Sure they struck gold for a couple of seasons, but their track record SUCKS. Keim is the one that did the deal for Murray, and until Bidwill fires him, others like Kingsbury will get the axe and Kyler will keep getting paid.

 

 

He's awful.  He has to go.

[SoCal Deek]

3 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

My list:

Top QB: Mahomes

 

Franchise QBs: Josh, Burrow

Potential but need to see more: Hurts, Tua, Herbert, Watson, Jackson

 

Former franchise QBs: Rodgers, Brady

 

So three definite franchise QBs in my opinion which seems light, but I cannot say I trust any others at this point to stay up there .. though Hurts and Tua seemed best positioned.

Very good list. Where would you put guys like Wilson, Stafford and Ryan…in the former group? Or not even on the list at all? 

Edited November 28, 2022 by SoCal Deek

[Seventeen]

11 hours ago, McBean said:

They should’ve just stayed with Rosen and developed him…

 

😂😂

 

They still can ... the chosen one is available.

[Behindenemylines]

10 hours ago, KzooMike said:

Watson aside, I give the Browns major props for cutting ties with Baker and not allowing themselves to be at a crossroads near the end of a contract. They avoided what Arizona could not. 

Now let’s hope their contract with Watson proves to be even worse for them. Watching that franchise crash and burn will be entertaining.  

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Cards and Broncos should seriously consider trading QB's. Problem is, Russ has been so bad I am sure the Broncos would do the trade in a heartbeat but the they would probably still have to send the Cardinals a first round pick in return. Which they have none left for the foreseeable future.

 

The other huge negative with Murray is that he seems at this point to be an injury prone QB. 

[nucci]

12 hours ago, NewEra said:

Imagine how bad we would regress if Diggs missed the rest of the year and got suspended for peds the first half of next year?  We’d probably trade our first rd pick for Hollywood brown.  Losing Hopkins was devastating.

 

Other massive contributing factors-

 

Kyler just doesn’t have the mentality to be an elite qb-   jmo from my couch.  

 

kingsbury is out of his league.  
 

bleh OL- bleh D

Kingsbury is really bad

[HOUSE]

This is what happens when you sell a Timex watch in  a Rolex box

[nucci]

2 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

This is what happens when you sell a Timex watch in  a Rolex box

I have 2 dollars and a casio

[Punching Bag]

12 hours ago, KzooMike said:

Russ was better than Kyler at the same age. Not as good an athlete but better QB skills. With Russ, I just don't think his style of play ages well. Not like Kyler's will either, Russ is just older. It is a bit ironic, with all this talk of Kyler not being a leader some have accused Russ of the same. Further, both QB's could have played major league baseball. 

 

Good idea for both to do it unless their NFL contract prohibits.

[Jauronimo]

13 hours ago, FireChans said:

You are 100% wrong in your assessment of Kyler Murray's physical ability.

 

His problem is between the ears.  Period.

The best assessment of Kyler's game I have ever seen was posted on twitter recently:

 

"Kyler Murray runs like a little kid who just stole his mom's iPhone."

[DCofNC]

12 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Not trying to start an argument but if the list changes from year to year then I’d say those other guys aren’t really Franchise QBs. I believe the very definition is that they transcend the year to year up and downs. 

Agreed, upto the point of some of the clear Franchise guys are now showing their age and need to be moved out of that category.  For the sake of argument, last year I would have said:

 

Maholmes

Allen

Rodgers

Brady

Burrow

Wilson

 

In my mind, these are the only guys that have proven they are Franchise QBs.  I know some people want Herbert on the list, I think he’s in the “really good” group and still trying to cement that title.

 

This year, with age showing, in my mind, the list is:

 

Maholmes

Allen

Burrow

 

The list didn’t really change so much as guys have fallen off, but that’s primarily due to playing past their time and IDK what happened to Wilson, but he has been awful this year and trending down for the past couple years.  I was blaming his relative struggles in Seattle on injury and lack of surrounding talent, I think that’s out the window with Geno having a career year (not saying much) and Russ having a career worst year.  Again, I leave Herbert in the really good class, still not what I would consider a franchise guy yet. 
 

There’s people that will argue I’m working on Herbert and Dak and Hurts and Lamar etc, imo you will never here a fan base wondering if they should let a guy go or flat out wishing they could get rid of a real Franchise QB and said QB should be making the team better.  So Lamar misses on the fact he’s great, but limited skill set, Hurts has to prove it for more than 10 games, Herbert can’t seem to elevate a team, Dak… meh, Murray is laughable and the 3 guys you would never get anybody calling for their heads are your Franchise players. 

 

5 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

My list:

Top QB: Mahomes

 

Franchise QBs: Josh, Burrow

Potential but need to see more: Hurts, Tua, Herbert, Watson, Jackson

 

Former franchise QBs: Rodgers, Brady

 

So three definite franchise QBs in my opinion which seems light, but I cannot say I trust any others at this point to stay up there .. though Hurts and Tua seemed best positioned.

Just saw this and you said it better than me, agree completely.

[Rc2catch]

I don’t dislike Kyler, I think he’s taking more heat than he deserves. 
Kingsbury is more to blame imo. 
There’s a reason their offense is horrible almost every game outside the end of halves when they go into the 2 minute offense. Kyler deserves some blame but I wouldn’t write him off until I seen him play in a different system. 

[QCity]

13 hours ago, KzooMike said:

If I'm an NFL GM I have a rule in place. If my QB makes to the last year of his deal and I don't know for sure, move on. 

 

You wouldn't be an NFL GM for long. You know what happens after you move on? You lose your job. Typically GM's don't get a 2nd chance to figure it out. Signing a questionable franchise QB has more job security than rolling with the Sam Darnold's of the league.

[ProcessTruster]

14 hours ago, KzooMike said:

Sorry, but his height does hinder him. This isn't college. Just because he can run around like his head is cut off and find some throwing lanes, he does not possess the zip on the ball or the accuracy in the short and intermediate passing game.  So he makes some plays once and awhile. He's a hell of an athlete, but his deficiencies limit him.  Watching him is literally identical to watching Flutie. If he has issues between his ears outside of just lacking the skills to be a pro football QB than I don't know what to say. I wouldn't take him if you paid me.  

Love the Flutie comparison, with a side of Tyrod Taylor.   Murray a great athlete for sure, but unless you are 6 foot 2 or above and a great athlete in today's NFL you have limited upside.  Not the smartest draft pick. 

[mannc]

14 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

Bidwill loves Steve Keim, that's why. The Bidwill family has NEVER been sharp as ownership and it explains why they have been lost as a franchise for decades. Sure they struck gold for a couple of seasons, but their track record SUCKS. Keim is the one that did the deal for Murray, and until Bidwill fires him, others like Kingsbury will get the axe and Kyler will keep getting paid.

Not remembering the gold strike...

[FilthyBeast]

40 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I don’t dislike Kyler, I think he’s taking more heat than he deserves. 
Kingsbury is more to blame imo. 
There’s a reason their offense is horrible almost every game outside the end of halves when they go into the 2 minute offense. Kyler deserves some blame but I wouldn’t write him off until I seen him play in a different system. 

 

I think this is a fair assessment, but I also think sometimes when a guy gets a big extension that's questionable it's more about he hype and highlight reel type of plays (including the 'Hail Murray' against everyone's favorite team) that people still gush over even though it was more about pure luck and the WR making a spectacular play).

 

For me the biggest issue with Murray is still his diminutive statute on the field, and after watching a guy like Russell Wilson career come crashing down in his early 30's it makes you wonder about the long term viability of a similar player.

[mannc]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

He's awful.  He has to go.

Yes, he is, and he's tied at the hip to Murray.  When Kingsbury is fired, there's a good chance Murray's days are numbered too....

[Airseven]

14 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

Bidwill loves Steve Keim, that's why. The Bidwill family has NEVER been sharp as ownership and it explains why they have been lost as a franchise for decades. Sure they struck gold for a couple of seasons, but their track record SUCKS. Keim is the one that did the deal for Murray, and until Bidwill fires him, others like Kingsbury will get the axe and Kyler will keep getting paid.

You mean, Keim is the one who got a do-over after Rosen and then committed prematurely to Murray to force a “franchise QB.” He pulls off decent trades occasionally, but continues to reach for skill positions and linebackers in the draft. Cardinals OL may be even worse than the Bills OL. Yes, it seems Bidwell develops relationships that shield certain managers from real performance evaluations.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I think for the same reason the Bengals gave Dalton the 2nd contract. 

 

They know there are limitations, but there is never a free agent QB on the market that can compete. 

 

I agree with his childish removing all Cardinals references on his Instagram, and maybe the better move would have been to Franchise Tag. 

 

Kirk Cousins has played this perfectly throughout his career. Can you start a season with Nick Mullens as your starter? Trade a bunch for Jordan Love? 

[dpberr]

Kingsbury's offense is a simple college set long figured out by the NFL defensive coordinators.  That's why the Cardinals often look like a "go long!" Saturday flag football team that relies on hero ball and one athlete being better than the other athlete (Hopkins).  

 

Kingsbury has quietly been one of the NFL's worst coaches.