Game overall analysis

[Rubes]

36 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

You can't advance a recovered onside kick.

 

Didn't Poyer do that a couple years ago against Miami for a TD?

 

[Simon]

21 minutes ago, DCbillsfan said:

Is that a new rule about advancing an onside kick?  Hyde advanced one for a TD a few years back.

 

Hyde was on the receiving team.

The kicking team can't advance a recovery (unless the receiving team first has definitive possession and then fumbles); it's a dead ball at the spot of the recovery.

[Solomon Grundy]

With Cook having the day he was, I would've liked to have seen him get the majority of the carries. Get his confidence up

Edited November 21, 2022 by Solomon Grundy

[97bills]

15 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

With Cook having the day he was, I would've liked to have seen him get the majority of the carries. Get his confidence up

Dude was running good. But so was Singletary.  

[Ralonzo]

4 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

Allen looked lost for the 1st quarter and a half. Giving him the benefit of tough circumstances, he had a short practice week, a relocated game after a historic storm and coming off his worst 2 games turnover wise in 2seasons. He was fine after that and played controlled, smart football. The Bills ran the ball in thr 2nd half and scored on most of their drives. The biggest takeaway was this team is giving DCs plenty to worry about after that running display. Josh didn’t expose himself to hard hits and we got a good win.

 

 

Allen played just like the last 2 weeks except when he double-clutched, instead of throwing it to the guy he was going to throw to anyway after drawing the defense to him, he threw it to someone else.

[Nextmanup]

4 hours ago, Italian Bills said:

Even if i’m very happy for the win, i have to be straight on what i see: 

 

- overall grade game B-

- run game A (i love Cook)

- run game defense grade A+++

- Allen B (he seems lost.. don’t know what is it, but he’s not the Josh we know and need yet)

- Brisset had a very good game, but what about our defense ? 
- defense grade B

- secondary grade C- 

- penalties: too much !

 

In a brief recap if we play like this when we’ll face phins, jets and bengals we could be in trouble. 
 

For whatever reason we lost our mojo, we need to regain it very soon. 
 

Obviously we need to get some player back, Edmunds, Groot, Tre… right now we are too banged up to be a great defense again. 

Hello friend, yes we have lost our mojo and it did NOT come back against Cleveland despite the score.

If we continue to play at this new, low level (4 games now) we will go nowhere in the playoffs.

 

And yes, we'll get beat by good teams even prior to the playoffs.

 

Josh is still not right.  Most fans here don't care because we won.  

 

That is penny wise and pound foolish.  (Do you know that expression?)

 

 

[Simon]

4 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

Allen played just like the last 2 weeks except when he double-clutched, instead of throwing it to the guy he was going to throw to anyway after drawing the defense to him, he threw it to someone else.

 

I thought he was way more protective of the ball today, at times almost to a fault.

[Ralonzo]

6 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I thought he was way more protective of the ball today, at times almost to a fault.

That's what reminded me of his 2018/9 reps. Realllllly trying to steer the ball placement away from trouble, even if it made life tough (or impossible) for the receiver. If he threw long today, I'd bet he would have overshot the receiver to avoid any possible pick. You can win games with that Allen but it's not the fearless Allen that they'd need to win playoff games, or the big game. 

[Simon]

Just now, Ralonzo said:

That's what reminded me of his 2018/9 reps. Realllllly trying to steer the ball placement away from trouble, even if it made life tough (or impossible) for the receiver. If he threw long today, I'd bet he would have overshot the receiver to avoid any possible pick. You can win games with that Allen but it's not the fearless Allen that they'd need to win playoff games, or the big game. 

 

Yeah, he probably over-adjusted. And I think I hope he does it again next week.

No need to beat yourself when you're playing inferior teams; if it costs them 4 points here and there, we can probably live with it vs the likes of the Browns and Lions.

[Norcalbillsfan]

Entire team looked flat except Milano and cook. But honestly if that's our new flat game that's ok, cuz josh doesn't throw red zone ints and we still win with a flat game from the team. The browns are a solid team that have lost alot of close games and we still handled them on an off day.

[AlfaBill]

5 hours ago, TFBillsfan said:

I would add ST  A+
8 scores but only 2 TD’s isn’t good!

 

They continue to get very little from their slot WR and seems like they don’t even try to get Cook, Hines or McKenzie the ball in open space.

 

Still numerous question marks for me and they better be ready to go against Detroit. 7-3 and still haven’t play four solid qtrs in a game yet.  

The part about the slot receiver and our backs in space is so true. It’s mind boggling actually!

[Sestak4ever]

42 minutes ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

Entire team looked flat except Milano and cook. But honestly if that's our new flat game that's ok, cuz josh doesn't throw red zone ints and we still win with a flat game from the team. The browns are a solid team that have lost alot of close games and we still handled them on an off day.

Thought Ed Oliver had a good game, as did Hines on special teams.

[US Egg]

Analyzing victories is anal.

[Norcalbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Sestak4ever said:

Thought Ed Oliver had a good game, as did Hines on special teams.

Your right, Hines looked great on returns

[ganesh]

8 hours ago, Italian Bills said:

Even if i’m very happy for the win, i have to be straight on what i see: 

 

- overall grade game B-

- run game A (i love Cook)

- run game defense grade A+++

- Allen B (he seems lost.. don’t know what is it, but he’s not the Josh we know and need yet)

- Brisset had a very good game, but what about our defense ? 
- defense grade B

- secondary grade C- 

- penalties: too much !

 

In a brief recap if we play like this when we’ll face phins, jets and bengals we could be in trouble. 
 

For whatever reason we lost our mojo, we need to regain it very soon. 
 

Obviously we need to get some player back, Edmunds, Groot, Tre… right now we are too banged up to be a great defense again. 

Allen has three things that are not going in his favor:

   * OL has not protected him well (But they have also played three teams with some great pass rush)

   * His WR's minus Diggs have gone AOWL.  McKenzie shouldn't be on the field anymore.  His speed is not usable in current context.

   *. Allen is trying to do too many things to overcome the above and he hasn't had a good day at the office. 

 

Yesterday he took what the Browns gave him and move the ball.  What he is missing is the Red Zone production (6 FGs yesterday).  Chalk it up for poor WR performance.

[DrPJax]

9 hours ago, Italian Bills said:

Of course this bad week (not practicing enough and illness) didn’t help, but there’s something wrong with our passing game.. with Josh. 
 

He doesn’t seem himself. 

He just needs confidence back. This is on dorsey. Diorsey  allowed the browns to take Diggs out. That’s unacceptable. The route tree is terrible , too congested , poor spacing. On the all 22 Josh has no open receivers. Dorsey needs to keep running,, get Hines involved as out #2 has a 17% drop rate, and be more creative with formation ( once today he actually did put Diggs in the backfield forcing a time out by the Browns! ) and motion and Josh will have more open guys. Do quick slants so Josh has no reads and csn just drops and throw so he gets confident. This is in Dorsey’s hands and mind! 

[Italian Bills]

Then what is analyzing the analyzing victories ? 🤔

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Hello friend, yes we have lost our mojo and it did NOT come back against Cleveland despite the score.

If we continue to play at this new, low level (4 games now) we will go nowhere in the playoffs.

 

And yes, we'll get beat by good teams even prior to the playoffs.

 

Josh is still not right.  Most fans here don't care because we won.  

 

That is penny wise and pound foolish.  (Do you know that expression?)

 

 

 

IMO there are a few reasons for this...

 

1 Dorseys offense is not quite the same as Dabolls so there are still learning and adjusting to it

2 Allen obviously does have an injury and it does effect him

3 Due to said injury he hasnt even thrown balls at practice during the week.  I dont care how good you are, you need to practice to stay in sync

4 He doesnt quite have the talent he had last season

 

5 this week specifically no one hardly practiced at all.  I thought they did pretty good considering all the circumstances this week including not playing at home and being last hour helped from their homes just to get to Detroit

 

I think like last season, the Bills will find their way.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Scott7975

[Nitro]

6 FG is a red flag.  Need to finish drives in the end zone.  The Jets and Pats have defenses that will give the Bills fits.   Dorsey has to design plays that are effective inside the opponents 30.   

[pkwwjd]

10 hours ago, What a Tuel said:

The good news is that since the browns scored late and made it a one score game, this goes to the vaunted "1 score game" credit for McDermott! So glad we allowed it to be one score so his record could improve there /s. 😂😂

6-D chess, man

[Straight Hucklebuck]

13 hours ago, TFBillsfan said:

I would add ST  A+
8 scores but only 2 TD’s isn’t good!

 

They continue to get very little from their slot WR and seems like they don’t even try to get Cook, Hines or McKenzie the ball in open space.

 

Still numerous question marks for me and they better be ready to go against Detroit. 7-3 and still haven’t play four solid qtrs in a game yet.  

I agree with this.

 

You watch our WRs in warmup, yesterday with McKenzie, Shakir and Gentry, they’re all so small. 
 

Our WR room is two guys.

 

This staff has seemingly given up on Shakir. 
 

I did notice Hines in the slot a couple of times, they had Cook out wide once. 

[CSBill]

13 hours ago, stevestojan said:

If you gave the secondary a C-, I REALLY wish you were grading my work in college. 

 

Grade inflation is real issue these days in Higher Education.

 

 

13 hours ago, zow2 said:

Lessons learned from last week.  Boring wins are ok.  Field goals are ok. 

 

Yes, and speaking of education and learning: Take the Field Goal last week instead of the ill-conceived and poorly executed 4th down play, and the Bills win the game going away. .... Hopefully, lesson learned.

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by CSBill

[SCBills]

37 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I agree with this.

 

You watch our WRs in warmup, yesterday with McKenzie, Shakir and Gentry, they’re all so small. 
 

Our WR room is two guys.

 

This staff has seemingly given up on Shakir. 
 

I did notice Hines in the slot a couple of times, they had Cook out wide once. 

If there’s ever been an “I told you so” from the fanbase to the front office, it’s over how they addressed WR. 
 

We even had them using the media to tell us “view them as pass catchers, not slot/outside WR’s”.  
 

Yet here we are, 10 games in and we have two WR’s, one of which isn’t exactly the most reliable. 
 

Hopefully they find roles for Shakir and McKenzie or Knox’s role looks more like yesterday, because this isn’t sustainable. 
 

Edited November 21, 2022 by SCBills

[Buckets]

I see a lot of posters mention "no tre" but could you imagine this D without Milano? 

[Matt_In_NH]

1 minute ago, Buckets said:

I see a lot of posters mention "no tre" but could you imagine this D without Milano? 

Like the Jets game?

[vincec]

2 hours ago, Buckets said:

I see a lot of posters mention "no tre" but could you imagine this D without Milano? 

The drop off from starters to backups is pretty steep at several positions. Milano to Bernard. Edmunds to Dodson. Poyer to Johnson/Lewis. Those starters really need to play.

Edited November 21, 2022 by vincec

[Buckets]

12 minutes ago, CSBill said:

 

Grade inflation is real issue these days in Higher Education.

 

 

 

Yes, and speaking of education and learning: Take the Field Goal last week instead of the ill-conceived and poorly executed 4th down play, and the Bills win the game going away. .... Hopefully, lesson learned.

 

 

 

Yes, but 6 times we couldn't convert on 3rd down. That's concerning.

[Steptide]

Imo, the bills looked like a team that didn't practice all week. Guys like Poyer, Milano and other vets can get away with one day of practice, but it's obvious our backups, especially in the secondary, cannot. Allen obviously needs more than one day also, and this is understandable. The offense needs to fire on all cylinders, and it doesn't look like it can with one day of practice. Add all the distractions of the snow storm and I'm not surprised the bills looked flat 

[Eastport bills]

9 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

 

Allen played just like the last 2 weeks except when he double-clutched, instead of throwing it to the guy he was going to throw to anyway after drawing the defense to him, he threw it to someone else.

 

9 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

 

Allen played just like the last 2 weeks except when he double-clutched, instead of throwing it to the guy he was going to throw to anyway after drawing the defense to him, he threw it to someone else.

Don’t worry, if he wins the Detroit game, he’s got 11 days to heal the elbow, which would have shelved most QBs. A 2 game hiccup, where our defense was non existent, he couldn’t get wins by himself. Josh will win games like those most Sundays. You could see he’s struggling with the elbow with those throws in the first 4 possessions. He got better as the game went on. I’ll take him over anyone other than Mahomes even with the picks. All great QBs have unexplainable stretches. He’s a gamer and a winner.

[SCBills]

Just now, Eastport bills said:

 

Don’t worry, if he wins the Detroit game, he’s got 11 days to heal the elbow, which would have shelved most QBs. A 2 game hiccup, where our defense was non existent, he couldn’t get wins by himself. Josh will win games like those most Sundays. You could see he’s struggling with the elbow with those throws in the first 4 possessions. He got better as the game went on. I’ll take him over anyone other than Mahomes even with the picks. All great QBs have unexplainable stretches. He’s a gamer and a winner.

In a hilarious scheduling twist, we actually don’t have a mini-bye after Thanksgiving.  
 

We have the Pats next Thursday. 

[Eastport bills]

4 minutes ago, SCBills said:

In a hilarious scheduling twist, we actually don’t have a mini-bye after Thanksgiving.  
 

We have the Pats next Thursday. 

 

4 minutes ago, SCBills said:

In a hilarious scheduling twist, we actually don’t have a mini-bye after Thanksgiving.  
 

We have the Pats next Thursday. 

 

4 minutes ago, SCBills said:

In a hilarious scheduling twist, we actually don’t have a mini-bye after Thanksgiving.  
 

We have the Pats next Thursday. 

I can’t believe that. This schedule is designed to bring our record back to the pack or get our guys injured. How can the players union allow this crap.

[Dopey]

9 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

 

Don’t worry, if he wins the Detroit game, he’s got 11 days to heal the elbow, which would have shelved most QBs. A 2 game hiccup, where our defense was non existent, he couldn’t get wins by himself. Josh will win games like those most Sundays. You could see he’s struggling with the elbow with those throws in the first 4 possessions. He got better as the game went on. I’ll take him over anyone other than Mahomes even with the picks. All great QBs have unexplainable stretches. He’s a gamer and a winner.

The 2 game hiccup was on Josh and the offense , not the defense. Remember those red zone ints or Singletary’s fumble?

[Steptide]

1 minute ago, Eastport bills said:

 

 

I can’t believe that. This schedule is designed to bring our record back to the pack or get our guys injured. How can the players union allow this crap.

Cuz they'll have 11 days after the Pats game

[Eastport bills]

5 minutes ago, Dopey said:

The 2 game hiccup was on Josh and the offense , not the defense. Remember those red zone ints or Singletary’s fumble?

OK, I thought when you put up 30 and pass for 330 and run for 84 while getting a lead of 27 -10, you should bury a team playing on the road. Look at Cooks running numbers and Cousins completing every pass with Jefferson’s 200. Dopey wake up.

11 minutes ago, Steptide said:

Cuz they'll have 11 days after the Pats game

Absolutely right, my mistake. Never saw scheduling like that. The networks are desperate to get Bills on prime time. The national audience loves the Bills.

[All_Pro_Bills]

33 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

OK, I thought when you put up 30 and pass for 330 and run for 84 while getting a lead of 27 -10, you should bury a team playing on the road. Look at Cooks running numbers and Cousins completing every pass with Jefferson’s 200. Dopey wake up.

The back ups in the secondary can't cover anybody and those 50/50 balls turn out to be 80/20 in favor of the receiver.  What techniques they're playing or being instructed to play other than don't get near a receiver or don't look for the ball isn't clear.  Thankfully, the Browns receivers dropped some passes yesterday while the Vikings did not.

Edited November 21, 2022 by All_Pro_Bills

[PromoTheRobot]

My analysis: rough start, defense woke up, offense woke up, it's the Browns, defense let up at the end and allowed them get to close in garbage time to the point the Bills had to get the onside kick to clinch it.

Edited November 21, 2022 by PromoTheRobot

[Eastport bills]

6 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

The back ups in the secondary can't cover anybody and those 50/50 balls turn out to be 80/20 in favor of the receiver.  What techniques they're playing or being instructed to play other than don't get near a receiver or don't look for the ball isn't clear.  Thankfully, the Browns receivers dropped some passes yesterday while the Vikings did not.

It’s frustrating that these young guys are losing confidence by being burnt so much. You want to say they haven’t been coached well, maybe but should they have been thrust into starting roles. Beane didn’t address these deficiencies before the deadline. He’s reluctant to dip into draft capital. This team is into our window to break the drought. You look at how proactive the Chiefs are in addressing shortcomings. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

If there’s ever been an “I told you so” from the fanbase to the front office, it’s over how they addressed WR. 
 

We even had them using the media to tell us “view them as pass catchers, not slot/outside WR’s”.  
 

Yet here we are, 10 games in and we have two WR’s, one of which isn’t exactly the most reliable. 
 

Hopefully they find roles for Shakir and McKenzie or Knox’s role looks more like yesterday, because this isn’t sustainable. 
 

I agree, it was stark in pregame warmups watching tiny McKenzie, Shakir and Gentry.  

 

I got into the stadium and just watched them. 

 

They might really be in a situation where they need Crowder back in the Playoffs, because McKenzie just gets lost out there, too small to be a reliable option. 

 

At 2:14 PM I texted my family we need Beckham badly. 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

15 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

Allen looked lost for the 1st quarter and a half. Giving him the benefit of tough circumstances, he had a short practice week, a relocated game after a historic storm and coming off his worst 2 games turnover wise in 2seasons. He was fine after that and played controlled, smart football. The Bills ran the ball in thr 2nd half and scored on most of their drives. The biggest takeaway was this team is giving DCs plenty to worry about after that running display. Josh didn’t expose himself to hard hits and we got a good win.

 

Bingo.  Over the last 4 games any analysis of Allen's performance has to drill down to quarter by quarter.  It's just plain lazy for people to say he's been playing poorly or not playing like the Allen of old.  That observation only holds true for parts of the game. 

 

*  In the first half against GB Allen played like elite Allen and had the Bills leading 24 - 7.

 

*  In the first half against Minn Allen played like elite Allen and had the Bills leading 24 - 10.

 

*  The Jets game was his worst of the last four but even in this game Allen was great in the 2nd quarter getting the Bills out in front 14 - 3 before a late first half drive by the Jets kept the game from getting out of hand.  Even after that Allen maneuvered the Bills in 30 seconds into long FG range that they missed.

 

*  Allen did look tentative and off during the first quarter and a half yesterday as did the whole team.  But Allen recovered nicely and was great in the last half of the 2nd quarter and in the 2nd half leading the Bills on a 25 - 0 run.

 

A better and more accurate observation of Allen's performance over the last 4 games is that he's been inconsistent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Dopey said:

The 2 game hiccup was on Josh and the offense , not the defense. Remember those red zone ints or Singletary’s fumble?

The Vikings game was well in hand late in the 3rd quarter when the Bills went up 27 - 10.  Allowing an 81 yard TD RUN was the event that set in motion the loss.  And that was on the defense.