Josh Allen injury update(officially questionable - expected to start per Ian Rappaport)

[benderbender]

4 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

as Diggs tweeted last night, “Rejoice”!

I’ve been told that was in reference to the McRib being back

[Bills!Win!]

Would you rather have Keenum starting than Edwards, Losman, Taylor, Manuel, Lewis, Thigpen, Orton, Holcomb, Van Pelt, Brohm, Tuel, Cassel, Peterman and Anderson? 
 

I think the only other QBs from the last 20 years I’d pick over Keenum to start would be Bledsoe or Fitzpatrick 

[Johnnycage46]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

It does show for all the talking that people did about the Bills fantastic training programme and facilities and the correlation to their injury record the past couple of seasons the reality is that even if you are leading edge sports science wise etc there is always an element of luck involved in staying relatively injury free. 

 

This year the bug has bitten the Bills well and truly. So frustrating because I think fully healthy this is the best team in football. 

 

That is the worst part of it all...the luck.  Everyone is always nervous about Allen getting injured because of his running, but he ends up hurt doing the most quarterbacky thing ever by just throwing from the pocket (same with his 2018 injury, although the way it was injured then was different (helmet strike I believe)).

 

The luck factor has really effed the Bills so far this season.  Every team has injuries, but not all injuries are created equal (i.e. losing a defensive lineman vs. losing a Hyde or Poyer in a defense like ours).  Just seems the Bills have not only been bitten hard by the injury bug, but the players injured are so much of the significance.  

[nucci]

28 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

I don’t expect Allen to play this week. Let him rest for a week or 2. This is why you signed a Vet back up. 

rest for a week or 2? What if he can play? Sounds like when Hyde went out...we'll be ok...Poyer hurt...rest him...we need him for playoffs. Sit Tre, we need him for the playoffs. We need our best players every week to win games to get to the playoffs. Our division is tight

[The Firebaugh Kid]

The "google doctors" out there, ya'll are killin' it! Keep it up!

Copy/paste your way to validation. 

[LabattBlue]

22 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Exactly!  Beane's done a remarkable job overall building this roster.   But I continue to be puzzled why he doesn't get better bodyguards for his MVP.

 

 

Agree.  IMO it is because they think Allen can mask the OL deficiencies. It has been and still is a flawed strategy by McD and BB.  Dumpster diving for UFA OL is nothing but shuffling the Titantic deck chairs. 

[bills742]

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1590315244466880513?t=bsEGX3Q569vYdtXJbvCVDA&s=19

[Big Turk]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

It does show for all the talking that people did about the Bills fantastic training programme and facilities and the correlation to their injury record the past couple of seasons the reality is that even if you are leading edge sports science wise etc there is always an element of luck involved in staying relatively injury free. 

 

This year the bug has bitten the Bills well and truly. So frustrating because I think fully healthy this is the best team in football. 

 

Yeah luck definitely plays a big part, especially with things like ankle injuries, which the vast majority of these are.

 

The sports science part helps mostly to avoid muscle strains and sprains like hamstrings

8 hours ago, BobBelcher said:

 

Want to believe this, but... on the pass before the 70-yard bomb, it sure seemed like whatever he was dealing with had clearly impacted the throw.

 

If you watched what Allen was doing when he was massaging his arm after the hit, it looked more like he was trying to get feeling back in his arm than he was in actual pain. I would guess that throw was impacted by loss of feeling more than anything.

[zow2]

6 minutes ago, nucci said:

rest for a week or 2? What if he can play? Sounds like when Hyde went out...we'll be ok...Poyer hurt...rest him...we need him for playoffs. Sit Tre, we need him for the playoffs. We need our best players every week to win games to get to the playoffs. Our division is tight

 

Without much fanfare the Bills will be heading to December 0-2 in the Division while the Fins and Jets are 2-1 and even on total wins... meanwhile Allen not doing great.  I would say the urgency is a 10 out of 10 for all hands on deck to play.  It's not written on sacred tablets that the Bills are gonna make the playoffs.  

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes, this is a grade 2, so there is a partial tear. Not a grade 1 that just means the ligament is stretched. A partial tear isn't healing itself throwing on it all the time. So at the very least it needs the sort of rest and rehab that can't happen in season. In most cases I'd imagine for someone who throws for a living the belt and braces approach would be surgery to repair. I don't think we will see Josh at his best the rest of the way in 2022.

 

Two things:

 

First, it's been correctly pointed out upthread by several people that people who throw for a living are not all the same.  Baseball pitchers get Tommy John for UCL injury.  Football QB usually don't.

 

Second, in 2018, Josh sustained a Grade 2 tear to his throwing elbow which sidelined him for 4 weeks, and most observers felt his throwing was better later that season.  He did not have surgery.

 

Of course, it's a fair point that 0 weeks off and 4 weeks off is a big difference.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Beck Water

[MasterStrategist]

52 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

1. I read Rapsheet differently. He said "sprain (slight tear)." That is the definition of a grade 2 injury to a ligament. Grade 1 is a sprain. Grade 2 is a sprain and partial tear. Grade 3 is torn ligament. So while this is not the worst case scenario, it also isn't the best case scenario. 

 

2. Yes, surgery is speculation. They could choose just to rest, a partial tear can heal on its own. But when an individual uses that ligament in their everyday life then in my experience (again it is soccer more than football so leg more than knee) they generally go belt and braces and repair surgically. 

 

Okay probably was an overstatement. It AT LEAST needs proper rest that it won't get in season and it might need surgery. I just don't see a way we get an uncompromised Josh Allen the rest of the year. 

Wording is important, and Rapsheet never said "slight tear".  He started by saying sprain, then slid in "tiny tear".  To me that's different as he was not reporting a tear, but a sprain.  

 

See the post above from Ian this am.  No mention of tear, just sprain.  Which as you said, and I agree with, there are variations...could be a tear, could just be "stretched" ligaments. 

 

Bottom line, let's not get all "doomsday" that Josh Allen will be compromise for remainder of season, like you said.  Maybe he sits out this week, maybe he guts it out.  It sounds more like a pain tolerance thing to me right now, as the Bills wouldn't be putting Allen out there with any risk of "tearing"/or making injury worse.  So to me it will be a positive if he's trying to play thru it, like reported, and likely pain tolerance.

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

47 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Lupus still on the table imo 

It's never Lupus

 

[mannc]

33 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Well, if there is any silver lining to this injury, while it heals it may force Josh to take the “easy stuff” teams are giving him rather than continue to force the ball downfield.

 

Sorry, no silver lining here.

[LabattBlue]

8 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Agree.  IMO it is because they think Allen can mask the OL deficiencies. It has been and still is a flawed strategy by McD and BB.  Dumpster diving for UFA OL is nothing but shuffling the Titantic deck chairs. 

Oh, and I forget…Kromer was going to turn garbage into gold. 

[RyanC883]

1 minute ago, LabattBlue said:

Oh, and I forget…Kromer was going to turn garbage into gold. 

 

even Kromer can’t fix this mess of an OL.  Bean needs to fix this asap this offseason.  

[Greg S]

15 minutes ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

The "google doctors" out there, ya'll are killin' it! Keep it up!

Copy/paste your way to validation. 

 

[Bills!Win!]

Can Josh throw left handed ? 

[Seventeen]

If it's just an aggravating "play thru" injury with no chance of long-term issues, I wouldn't object to him playing against the Vikings and then backing up Keenum / resting until the Pats game on 12/1. Should be to able to beat the Browns/Lions with solid D and Keenum.

      

Edited November 9, 2022 by Roy Hobbs

[Beck Water]

27 minutes ago, Bills!Win! said:

Would you rather have Keenum starting than Edwards, Losman, Taylor, Manuel, Lewis, Thigpen, Orton, Holcomb, Van Pelt, Brohm, Tuel, Cassel, Peterman and Anderson? 
 

I think the only other QBs from the last 20 years I’d pick over Keenum to start would be Bledsoe or Fitzpatrick 

 

Orton did OK as a QB.  Unsure about Bledsoe unless we get to pick the vintage, like a wine.

[Greg S]

Isn't today when they start practicing for the Vikings. If you see Keenum getting all the reps with the starters, then that's probably a good indication he plays. Although Allen may not practice this week anyway even if he does play Sunday. So, who knows what's going to happen.

[MarkyMannn]

55 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

I don’t expect Allen to play this week. Let him rest for a week or 2. This is why you signed a Vet back up. 

Yeah this is what I would do. BUT most likely there goes playoff home field advantage.  Unless Keenum splits 2 games

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

I went to page 2 of google and I'm here to tell you I'd sit him this week regardless

[26TrapDraw]

12 minutes ago, Tom Donahoe, GM said:

I went to page 2 of google and I'm here to tell you I'd sit him this week regardless

Thank God you’re NOT GM.

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

16 minutes ago, Greg S said:

Isn't today when they start practicing for the Vikings. If you see Keenum getting all the reps with the starters, then that's probably a good indication he plays. Although Allen may not practice this week anyway even if he does play Sunday. So, who knows what's going to happen.

I think Rappaport on his latest report said  he will be limited but Doing some throwing. They want to see he how well he is gripping the football, how it responds through the week. 
 

I would think if Josh is able to do any of that and being the competitor he is will do his best to convince Mcd he is good to go Sunday. Mcd May think otherwise. 

Edited November 9, 2022 by loveorhatembillsfan4life

[Hebert19]

15 minutes ago, Greg S said:

Isn't today when they start practicing for the Vikings. If you see Keenum getting all the reps with the starters, then that's probably a good indication he plays. Although Allen may not practice this week anyway even if he does play Sunday. So, who knows what's going to happen.

I'd fully expect him to take them all regardless...Allen won't throw the ball much this week even if he is playing and that will be a theme for rest of year.  

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

1 minute ago, BeefCurtns said:

Thank God you’re NOT GM.

 

I'll go to page 3 of google, BeefCurtains. Tell me I won't

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I think we're really splitting hairs here. 

 

If he needed Tommy John surgery, someone would have broken that story by now, so the UCL is not ruptured. 

 

The reporting has been consistent on this from the beginning. He has a sprain of the UCL and nerve, and it is believed he can work through the injury. 

 

I do remember 2018, and he was ruled out immediately, there was no talk of him playing through it. Out of the game, and out for 4-weeks. 

 

The only detail we don't have a ton on, IMO, is can he make it worse by throwing on it? 

[eball]

32 minutes ago, mannc said:

Sorry, no silver lining here.

 

Yeah, much better to gloom-and-doom the days away…

 

[nucci]

24 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

If it's just an aggravating "play thru" injury with no chance of long-term issues, I wouldn't object to him playing against the Vikings and then backing up Keenum / resting until the Pats game on 12/1. Should be to able to beat the Browns/Lions with solid D and Keenum.

      

just like we should beat the Jets without Poyer, White and Milano? You want him to play Sunday then sit for 2 games? 

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I think we're really splitting hairs here. 

 

If he needed Tommy John surgery, someone would have broken that story by now, so the UCL is not ruptured. 

 

The reporting has been consistent on this from the beginning. He has a sprain of the UCL and nerve, and it is believed he can work through the injury. 

 

I do remember 2018, and he was ruled out immediately, there was no talk of him playing through it. Out of the game, and out for 4-weeks. 

 

The only detail we don't have a ton on, IMO, is can he make it worse by throwing on it? 

 

That surgery would only be the case in a full rupture situation for NFL QBs.

 

Clearly that wasn't the case because he would have been in serious pain after the play and would have had to come out of the game.

 

Common sense is a thing. You cannot throw a ball 70 yards if you need Tommy John Surgery.

[Beck Water]

25 minutes ago, Greg S said:

Isn't today when they start practicing for the Vikings. If you see Keenum getting all the reps with the starters, then that's probably a good indication he plays. Although Allen may not practice this week anyway even if he does play Sunday. So, who knows what's going to happen.

 

We're not going to see that. 

 

The press is only allowed to see part of the practice, seems like usually stretching and some of the position drills. 

 

What you're gonna see is a comment on Josh being on the sideline vs. out there throwing, and it wouldn't surprise me if they shoo the reporters out of the building prior to any QB throwing drills. 

 

McDermott will announce that he's "day to day" with an elbow, and that's about all we'll get.

 

I actually kind of noted that we didn't see any video of Allen throwing to WR last week.  We did earlier in the season, but I haven't been paying enough attention to know if that's fallen off for weeks or just last week.

 

5 minutes ago, nucci said:

just like we should beat the Jets without Poyer, White and Milano? You want him to play Sunday then sit for 2 games? 

 

Well, we should have beaten the Jets.  Without those 2 INTs, don't you think there's a high probability that we would have?

Edited November 9, 2022 by Beck Water

[teef]

7 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I think we're really splitting hairs here. 

 

If he needed Tommy John surgery, someone would have broken that story by now, so the UCL is not ruptured. 

 

The reporting has been consistent on this from the beginning. He has a sprain of the UCL and nerve, and it is believed he can work through the injury. 

 

I do remember 2018, and he was ruled out immediately, there was no talk of him playing through it. Out of the game, and out for 4-weeks. 

 

The only detail we don't have a ton on, IMO, is can he make it worse by throwing on it? 

this is my biggest question too.  if he can play less than 100% and not make it worse, so be it.  if there's any chance of him making this worse, i personally would just sit him and take our chances. i just want josh at 100% going into the playoffs, if that's even possible.

[nucci]

7 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

 

 

Well, we should have beaten the Jets.  Without those 2 INTs, don't you think there's a high probability that we would have?

but we didn't

[Straight Hucklebuck]

9 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

We're not going to see that. 

 

The press is only allowed to see part of the practice, seems like usually stretching and some of the position drills. 

 

What you're gonna see is a comment on Josh being on the sideline vs. out there throwing, and it wouldn't surprise me if they shoo the reporters out of the building prior to any QB throwing drills. 

 

McDermott will announce that he's "day to day" with an elbow, and that's about all we'll get.

 

I actually kind of noted that we didn't see any video of Allen throwing to WR last week.  We did earlier in the season, but I haven't been paying enough attention to know if that's fallen off for weeks or just last week.

 

 

Well, we should have beaten the Jets.  Without those 2 INTs, don't you think there's a high probability that we would have?

Both the Bills losses have been frustrating. 

 

On the goal line against Miami and couldn't get the ball into the end zone. 

 

And the Jets, 14-3 lead and stalled the rest of the game, with the same old issues popping up again - OLine specifically RT, no #2 WR, no running game to help, no Dawson Knox, no Shakir on the field. 

[BuffaloRebound]

4 minutes ago, teef said:

this is my biggest question too.  if he can play less than 100% and not make it worse, so be it.  if there's any chance of him making this worse, i personally would just sit him and take our chances. i just want josh at 100% going into the playoffs, if that's even possible.

It’s really hard to injure your arm throwing a football.  The stress put on your arm from throwing a baseball is completely different. Can’t imagine there’s a risk of making it worse other than the normal risks you take every time you got out on a football field. 

[1onemangang7]

He's only 84 percent of the offense.  Maybe there's another rb under 200lbs they can find to dress

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, Gene1973 said:

I've read that depending on the type of tear, he can indeed tear it more by throwing. However, not sure if thay applies only to throwing a baseball...

 

It's a toss up between Gene Okerlund and Gene Hackman as the best Gene's....sorry you didn't make the cut.  

 

If Allen has a tear in the degree where it could get worse, he won't play.  If he doesn't, he will play.

[LabattBlue]

I think McD says today that Allen is day to day, will be listed as questionable, game time decision, and out of the tunnel on Sunday starting at QB for the Bills will be…

 

Case Keenum.

 

😞

[BillyBilliams]

9 minutes ago, teef said:

this is my biggest question too.  if he can play less than 100% and not make it worse, so be it.  if there's any chance of him making this worse, i personally would just sit him and take our chances. i just want josh at 100% going into the playoffs, if that's even possible.

 

From what I understand, I don't think him throwing the ball would cause it to get worse.  However, I have heard that another hit could make it worse, which is obviously understandable.  I don't think him throwing 30 times a game will slowly cause the UCL to fully tear.  It just won't have the time to fully heal in a reasonable amount of time (as opposed to sitting him down for a few weeks).

[teef]

2 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

I've read that depending on the type of tear, he can indeed tear it more by throwing. However, not sure if thay applies only to throwing a baseball...

it's so hard to even speculate at this point.  my assumption is that he'll likely sit.  this staff tends to be more on the cautious side, and if it's for a couple of game, i'm more than ok with that.  going into the playoffs with this team as healthy as possible would be my priority.  

3 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

It’s really hard to injure your arm throwing a football.  The stress put on your arm from throwing a baseball is completely different. Can’t imagine there’s a risk of making it worse other than the normal risks you take every time you got out on a football field. 

i didn't know this.  

Just now, BillyBilliams said:

 

From what I understand, I don't think him throwing the ball would cause it to get worse.  However, I have heard that another hit could make it worse, which is obviously understandable.  I don't think him throwing 30 times a game will slowly cause the UCL to fully tear.  It just won't have the time to fully heal in a reasonable amount of time (as opposed to sitting him down for a few weeks).

this also makes sense, which is why i would error on the side of sitting him out.  i just have no idea how long that would be. 2 games vs 6 games or the year?