Josh Allen injury update(officially questionable - expected to start per Ian Rappaport)

[BillyBilliams]

1 minute ago, teef said:

it's so hard to even speculate at this point.  my assumption is that he'll likely sit.  this staff tends to be more on the cautious side, and if it's for a couple of game, i'm more than ok with that.  going into the playoffs with this team as healthy as possible would be my priority.  

i didn't know this.  

this also makes sense, which is why i would error on the side of sitting him out.  i just have no idea how long that would be. 2 games vs 6 games or the year?

 

I mean, if him getting hit in his arm would cause a full tear, what's the difference with him being fully healthy and potentially getting hit like that and getting a sprain to a tear?  If it's not a risk of making it worse by throwing the ball, I think they should let him decide of the pain can be tolerated.  I have heard it could affect the grip of the football and accuracy.  I say let him play, but if he clearly doesn't look right (throwing power and accuracy is greatly diminished), then you put Keenum in.  

[nucci]

1 minute ago, BillyBilliams said:

 

I mean, if him getting hit in his arm would cause a full tear, what's the difference with him being fully healthy and potentially getting hit like that and getting a sprain to a tear?  If it's not a risk of making it worse by throwing the ball, I think they should let him decide of the pain can be tolerated.  I have heard it could affect the grip of the football and accuracy.  I say let him play, but if he clearly doesn't look right (throwing power and accuracy is greatly diminished), then you put Keenum in.  

you need to know this before the game so Keenum can practice and prepare to play. 

[GunnerBill]

57 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Wording is important, and Rapsheet never said "slight tear".  He started by saying sprain, then slid in "tiny tear".  To me that's different as he was not reporting a tear, but a sprain.  

 

See the post above from Ian this am.  No mention of tear, just sprain.  Which as you said, and I agree with, there are variations...could be a tear, could just be "stretched" ligaments. 

 

Bottom line, let's not get all "doomsday" that Josh Allen will be compromise for remainder of season, like you said.  Maybe he sits out this week, maybe he guts it out.  It sounds more like a pain tolerance thing to me right now, as the Bills wouldn't be putting Allen out there with any risk of "tearing"/or making injury worse.  So to me it will be a positive if he's trying to play thru it, like reported, and likely pain tolerance.

 

 

 

The tweet from Ian does say "slight tear". I didn't watch the video, but if it is a slight tear it is a grade 2, by definition. 

 

Maybe I am doomsday about it.... but I'm sorry that is how I feel about it. I strongly suspect this compromises him for the rest of the year in some way and without him at full health we can't win the Superbowl. I get it, that's a glass half empty view. That is my honest feeling about it. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

5 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

I think McD says today that Allen is day to day, will be listed as questionable, game time decision, and out of the tunnel on Sunday starting at QB for the Bills will be…

 

Case Keenum.

 

😞

I think this is logical. 

 

I am wondering as we all probably are, how specific McDermott really gets with the diagnosis of the injury. 

 

Does he use the words tear, sprain, UCL. Or does he say something like there is irritation in the elbow, and then quickly get to Josh is questionable. 

[HappyDays]

25 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

The only detail we don't have a ton on, IMO, is can he make it worse by throwing on it? 

 

This is what Kyle Trimble (physical therapist, Banged Up Bills on Twitter) is saying:

 

 

[BillyBilliams]

2 minutes ago, nucci said:

you need to know this before the game so Keenum can practice and prepare to play. 

 

Allen is going to be limited this week.  So that means Keenum is going to get a lot of reps anyways.  That shouldn't be a problem.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

The tweet from Ian does say "slight tear". I didn't watch the video, but if it is a slight tear it is a grade 2, by definition. 

 

Maybe I am doomsday about it.... but I'm sorry that is how I feel about it. I strongly suspect this compromises him for the rest of the year in some way and without him at full health we can't win the Superbowl. I get it, that's a glass half empty view. That is my honest feeling about it. 

I don't see how this lines up. 

 

In 2018 he immediately had to leave the game, and there was no talk about "small tears" or sprains. 

 

He was quickly ruled out for 4-weeks, and when he came back, I don't remember him being limited. 

 

In fact, I remember Week 17, him tearing up the Dolphins as a precursor of what is to come. 

 

Worse case, he sits out 4 weeks, and we lose all 4 games without him. You're 6-6 with 5 games to go. Josh gives you a fighting chance. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

If there’s no actual risk of getting worse by playing, I’ll take a 65% Allen over 100% Keanum. We need to win these games.

[Rc2catch]

100 pages here we come!!!!!!! 

[1onemangang7]

6 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

If there’s no actual risk of getting worse by playing, I’ll take a 65% Allen over 100% Keanum. We need to win these games.

They can beat them with Keenum. At home. Not like it's the Jets defense.

[Negan]

Allen is starting Sunday, enough is enough, can't afford to sideline players anymore this season 

[Process]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The tweet from Ian does say "slight tear". I didn't watch the video, but if it is a slight tear it is a grade 2, by definition. 

 

Maybe I am doomsday about it.... but I'm sorry that is how I feel about it. I strongly suspect this compromises him for the rest of the year in some way and without him at full health we can't win the Superbowl. I get it, that's a glass half empty view. That is my honest feeling about it. 

What if we sit him for a few games and let it heal and he comes back 100%? How long does a slight tear in the UCL take to heal?

[Steptide]

7 minutes ago, Negan said:

Allen is starting Sunday, enough is enough, can't afford to sideline players anymore this season 

If they sit him out of caution, I will lose alot of confidence in this team. Unless Allen absolutely cannot play, he needs to start this game. It's not like the bills have a 4 game lead in the division 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

5 minutes ago, Process said:

What if we sit him for a few games and let it heal and he comes back 100%? How long does a slight tear in the UCL take to heal?

1-2 weeks is best case, 2-4 weeks is more likely if there is a tear.

 

That is what the sports doctors who have talked about this have said.

 

But the consistent speculation on this from the beginning is that this injury was not a severe as 2018, hence the playing through. 
 

 

[teef]

25 minutes ago, BillyBilliams said:

 

I mean, if him getting hit in his arm would cause a full tear, what's the difference with him being fully healthy and potentially getting hit like that and getting a sprain to a tear?  If it's not a risk of making it worse by throwing the ball, I think they should let him decide of the pain can be tolerated.  I have heard it could affect the grip of the football and accuracy.  I say let him play, but if he clearly doesn't look right (throwing power and accuracy is greatly diminished), then you put Keenum in.  

i think my question is what kind of trauma next would really damage the arm.  a slight hit?  i guess it all depends on the extent of damage today.  

[Beck Water]

6 minutes ago, Process said:

What if we sit him for a few games and let it heal and he comes back 100%? How long does a slight tear in the UCL take to heal?

 

well his rookie year, he was out 4 weeks

different body part but high ankle sprains or severe low ankle sprains seem to keep players out 2-4 weeks

[teef]

8 minutes ago, Process said:

What if we sit him for a few games and let it heal and he comes back 100%? How long does a slight tear in the UCL take to heal?

this is also my question.  is there a huge benefit to letting him sit for a few games?

[BillyBilliams]

Just now, teef said:

i think my question is what kind of trauma next would really damage the arm.  a slight hit?  i guess it all depends on the extent of damage today.  

 

I mean, the UCL is by the elbow joint.  The only hit I could personally see is something similar that got him hurt in the first place.

[Beck Water]

10 minutes ago, Negan said:

Allen is starting Sunday, enough is enough, can't afford to sideline players anymore this season 

 

That'd be great, you go visit the Bills locker room and inform Milano's oblique, Poyer's elbow, Tre's ACL, Rousseau's ankle, and Allen's elbow that they all better instantly become "football functional" because Negan says "enough is enough"

[BillyBilliams]

Personally, if we aren't going to use the running backs in the run or the pass, since we are throwing moderate to deep balls anyways, I'd say put the RB to the right of Josh and protect his right side, so his arm doesn't get hit like that again.

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, BillyBilliams said:

 

I mean, the UCL is by the elbow joint.  The only hit I could personally see is something similar that got him hurt in the first place.

 

In Allen's rookie season, the damage was caused by a helmet driving into his elbow.  I think we can safely assume that opposing players will be targeting Allen's elbow on every tackle, trying to worsen the injury and knock him out.

[BillyBilliams]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

That'd be great, you go visit the Bills locker room and inform Milano's oblique, Poyer's elbow, Tre's ACL, Rousseau's ankle, and Allen's elbow that they all better instantly become "football functional" because Negan says "enough is enough"

 

Let's be real.  Milano and Poyer plays if it's KC.  The coaching staff 100% sat them out because they were confident with a bad QB and no Breece Hall that they'd be fine.

[BuffaloRebound]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

That'd be great, you go visit the Bills locker room and inform Milano's oblique, Poyer's elbow, Tre's ACL, Rousseau's ankle, and Allen's elbow that they all better instantly become "football functional" because Negan says "enough is enough"

Mosley’s separated shoulder was ‘football functional’ enough to come back into the game on Sunday.  

Maybe McDermott needs to walk into the training room and do his best General Patton impersonation.  

[Process]

2 of our next 3 games are against NFC opponents.

 

2 of our next 3 games are against bad teams.

 

If sitting him three weeks allows it to fully heal then just do it. I don't think we are good enough to go better than 1-2 with Case Keenum. If we have to go KC in the playoffs, or even go in as a wildcard, than so be it. 

 

[The Firebaugh Kid]

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

That'd be great, you go visit the Bills locker room and inform Milano's oblique, Poyer's elbow, Tre's ACL, Rousseau's ankle, and Allen's elbow that they all better instantly become "football functional" because Negan says "enough is enough"

All he needs to do is rub his hands together like Miyagi did. All fixed! Go fight. 

[Negan]

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

That'd be great, you go visit the Bills locker room and inform Milano's oblique, Poyer's elbow, Tre's ACL, Rousseau's ankle, and Allen's elbow that they all better instantly become "football functional" because Negan says "enough is enough"

This isn't the time to be conservative, maybe you can get away with that approach against the Steelers and they hoped they would against the Jets.  But this is a tight race right now, and all hands will need to be on deck so we don't throw away this season.

[Beck Water]

this seems to be a well-written and factual article by new TBN reporter Ryan O'Halloran of TBN.

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/analysis-what-bills-quarterback-josh-allens-week-of-recovery-could-look-like/article_aa7e23fa-5fbf-11ed-8abd-132b133806e9.html

 

Quote

The organization hasn’t provided a status update, but some crumbs of information were obtained Monday night (ESPN reported the “ulnar collateral ligament and related nerves” evaluation) and Tuesday afternoon (NFL Network said “multiple doctors are giving multiple opinions”).

We shouldn’t expect any significant clarity on Wednesday when the Bills release their first injury report ahead of Sunday’s game against the Minnesota Vikings aside from body part and practice status.

 

McDermott has held the "be vague" and "loose lips sink ships" principles when reporting injuries.  Don't expect that to change.

 

Quote

In 2018, during Allen’s rookie season, he missed four games with a partially torn elbow ligament. Team and player avoided surgery through rest and rehabilitation. Can that provide a road map in this instance if in fact the ligament is sprained?

 

“Yes and no,” Dr. Orr Limpisvasti, an orthopedic surgeon at Cedars-Sinai’s Kerlan-Jobe Institute in Los Angeles, said in a phone interview Tuesday night. “Yes, because for him, he can index how he feels relative to the last injury. But no, because the severity and location of the injury may be different.”

 

He makes the point that with multiple opinions, the diagnosis is often the same, but the treatment plans may differ.

 

Quote

One treatment suggestion could be Allen receiving a platelet-rich plasma (PRP) injection to the elbow. The PRP process uses a patient’s blood and runs it through a centrifuge to concentrate the platelets, which are then injected to the injured tissue.

(....)

A key for a PRP injection, Limpisvasti said, is “you’re usually doing that to have it heal better, not necessarily heal faster.”

 

Quote

If the injury is in fact the UCL (Allen’s second), would Tommy John surgery and a significant period of recovery be inevitable?

“No, absolutely not,” Limpisvasti said.

 

Well, that was definitive.

 

I agree with O'Halloran's opinion here:

 

Quote

The Bills should play the long game, Part 2: In a better-than-expected AFC East (each team has a winning record) and four division games (including three at home) remaining, the Bills, of course, have a sense of urgency. But this team isn’t built to just win now and that starts with the 26-year old Allen. Any immediate decision about his status must account for the next several Novembers, not just this one.

 

Cam Newton and Andrew Luck IMO both had their careers curtailed by a team allowing them to play through injury.  The player wanted to, the teams chose to let them.

[OldTimer1960]

I would not mess around with the franchise’s passing elbow.  Let it heal or you could ruin him long-term.  If he loses arm strength, Allen becomes middling so let it heal right.

 

 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

28 minutes ago, gridirongold said:

They can beat them with Keenum. At home. Not like it's the Jets defense.

I don’t agree with this. I think we will get absolutely shut down with Keanum

[BuffaloRebound]

1 minute ago, Negan said:

This isn't the time to be conservative, maybe you can get away with that approach against the Steelers and they hoped they would against the Jets.  But this is a tight race right now, and all hands will need to be on deck so we don't throw away this season.

Exactly.  You could argue being conservative with injuries in the Jets game led to this mess because if the game was 10 points at hand like it should’ve been, Josh doesn’t have to be in harm’s way on that last drive.  

But it’s McDermott’s way.  I’m sure all the injuries we’ve suffered this year is making him more conservative with injuries.  He turtles up.  

[ProcessYaDigg]

Just now, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I don’t agree with this. I think we will get absolutely shut down with Keanum

This is why utilizing the ground game will be so important.  We have the pieces to run the ball.  All Keenum needs to do is manage the game.  

[78thealltimegreat]

If Josh plays I hope they give him a protective sleeve that makes him look like Thanos marketing genius

[clayboy54]

14 minutes ago, Process said:

2 of our next 3 games are against NFC opponents.

 

2 of our next 3 games are against bad teams.

 

If sitting him three weeks allows it to fully heal then just do it. I don't think we are good enough to go better than 1-2 with Case Keenum. If we have to go KC in the playoffs, or even go in as a wildcard, than so be it. 

 

Always remember, it is better for us to lose to NFC teams than win. I read that right here many times over the years.

[HappyDays]

44 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

If there’s no actual risk of getting worse by playing, I’ll take a 65% Allen over 100% Keanum. We need to win these games.

 

There is a risk. If he puts stress on the UCL before it heals properly the injury could linger. Unfortunately the best course of action may be to put him on the shelf for a couple weeks. Even if that costs the #1 seed the most important thing is making it to the playoffs with everyone healthy, especially Josh.

 

Time for this offense to figure out its run and screen game while Superman is sidelined. By the time he comes back maybe we'll have a more productive offense waiting for him.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

7 minutes ago, ProcessYaDigg said:

This is why utilizing the ground game will be so important.  We have the pieces to run the ball.  All Keenum needs to do is manage the game.  

But you understand we can’t run the ball right? If that was even a possibility then absolutely. We are incapable of running the ball. Even in extremely light boxes from the fear of a rocket arm MVP QB…what’s it going to look like with a noodle arm journeyman back up. People have to kind of start looking at this realistically. Josh Allen and Diggs are the offense.

[HappyDays]

38 minutes ago, Negan said:

Allen is starting Sunday, enough is enough, can't afford to sideline players anymore this season 

 

When you say we can't afford to, you're talking about the #1 seed right? Not the playoffs? We are going to make the playoffs even if Allen misses a game or two. Why risk the rest of Allen's season just to maximize our odds of getting the #1 seed? The #1 seed is the dream, but it isn't the goal.

[Jauronimo]

40 minutes ago, Negan said:

Allen is starting Sunday, enough is enough, can't afford to sideline players anymore this season 

Now more than ever, what we need is hollow tough talk.

[RiotAct]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

When you say we can't afford to, you're talking about the #1 seed right? Not the playoffs? We are going to make the playoffs even if Allen misses a game or two. Why risk the rest of Allen's season just to maximize our odds of getting the #1 seed? The #1 seed is the dream, but it isn't the goal.

so, at Arrowhead in the playoffs once again it is.

[Jauronimo]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

When you say we can't afford to, you're talking about the #1 seed right? Not the playoffs? We are going to make the playoffs even if Allen misses a game or two. Why risk the rest of Allen's season just to maximize our odds of getting the #1 seed? The #1 seed is the dream, but it isn't the goal.

This season is all about maintaining a two game lead on the Dolphins and Jets.  That was our goal in March and nothing will change that.  Anything short of maintaining a two game lead on Miami and the Jets will be considered a failure.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Just now, RiotAct said:

so, at Arrowhead in the playoffs once again it is.

Yup, Chiefs aren’t going to give the Bills a gift #1 seed.