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Bills sign Jordan Poyer to new deal with increased incentives, continue to work toward extension


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50 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Not to mention the fact that the Bills don’t have a 2nd string OL that would start for many other teams.  Huge oversight by Beane.

 


 

I mean it was not like in preseason OLine rankings the Bills were considered top 5 and were considered to have top depth, but keep believing what you want.  
 

Look around the league at OLine depth and you might understand why Beane is able to consistently trade off OLine depth - because they accumulate some of the best depth across the league.  You may hate Hart, but as a #4 guard he is excellent depth.

 

I think this is you not really getting the lack of OLine talent in the league.  Hart, Van Roten, Quisenberry have all been starters even up to last year in the league - that is something almost no other team has across the league.

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

 

Poyer does whatever he needs to.  There was a play where they pulled a defense lineman and Poyer engaged offense lineman while lineman rushed around end.  Offense lineman looked at Poyer "Who do you think you are?" and Poyer pushed him further into pocket.  I was in a bar and another patron asked who that LB was and I told him it was our starting safety.  His response: "A safety?"

 

OF the subject, but I was impressed over and over Thursday night how physical the Bills were.  They were physically dominant, and this play you're talking about, a play I don't recall, is one more example of it.  

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54 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Exactly.   In the simplest of terms, he will look at what he can get in the market and what the Bills will give him.   There will be a delta.  His agent will calculate for him how much money he will have when he retires.   By the end of this season, his total career earnings will be around $34 million.  Lose half in taxes, that's $17 million.   With the investment earnings, he has been able to spend maybe $1 million a year for the last eight years and still have $15 million banked, maybe better than that.  Say he can get a $15 million all-deal from the Bills next season, and $25 million someplace else.   After tax, that's eight or ten versus 12 or 15.    Maybe a net $10 million difference.   Maybe the two offers are twice that, so it's a net $20 million difference.  

 

Point is, that he's looking at retiring with $30 million or perhaps as much as $50 million.  Pretty big difference.   I mean, he can live very, very nicely on $30 million, because even spending $1 million a year, which is pretty hard to do, his net worth is going to grow a lot over his retirement.   But it's one thing for Josh, at his level, to give up $20 million, it's a different thing at Poyer's level.   It'll be his choice, but I think he's gone.  

 

I'd just like to point out in that "even spending $1M a year, which is pretty hard to do"....a lot of these guys, even if they don't come from nothing like McKenzie, they come from "not much"...I think Poyer has said his family worked with juveniles, or in corrections?  His brother had a tryout in Canadian football, dunno if that went anywhere.  His wife's family is from a tiny hamlet in the Adirondacks, I mean, less than 500 people, 2 hrs from anywhere much.

 

So one way money gets spent is helping family and friends that they legit love and want to help.   House here, car there, business loan someplace else, bring the whole family on an all-expenses vacation, pay for your cousin's wedding.  It's probably easier than you think for them to spend a few million a year.

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13 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

Agreed. Kinda feels like dinner and a last night together with a girlfriend before you break up with her.

This is fun and all, and I have to admit I like comments like this, but it's really demeaning to everyone involved.  

 

This isn't Beane somehow seducing Poyer in order to have one more great night in the sack.  Rosenhaus is much smarter than that.   He's not going to set his client up to be screwed, metaphorically speaking.  

 

No, this is Beane and Rosenhaus and Poyer having had serious discussions about how much the Bills value Poyer and how much they think they can prudently spend on him.   Poyer, for now, places a higher value on himself, in dollar terms.   They've had frank conversations about this.   And Beane has said that the Bills simply are not prepared today to make the cap commitment that Poyer is looking for.   So both sides understand that today, there won't be a long-term deal.   But the Bills also wanted to say to Poyer that they agree that he's really good and important to the franchise and they want to be sure, at least for this season, he gets paid what he's worth.  

 

Poyer won't wake up some morning next February and think he got screwed.   He'll either be engaged to get into a long-term relationship with the Bills, or he'll look back on his former lover with affection and move on to someone who values him more.  

 

The deal is the Bills doing the right thing by the guy as everyone sees how this plays out. 

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1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

Poyer does whatever he needs to.  There was a play where they pulled a defense lineman and Poyer engaged offense lineman while lineman rushed around end.  Offense lineman looked at Poyer "Who do you think you are?" and Poyer pushed him further into pocket.  I was in a bar and another patron asked who that LB was and I told him it was our starting safety.  His response: "A safety?"

 

LOL.

 

Yeah, that's where "they like Jaquon Johnson" falls short.  He can play safety in the NFL.  He can not do the things that Poyer can do.  Dawson Knox, let alone an OLman, can put Jaquon on his ass.  When Poyer hits someone, he knows he's been hit.  Now maybe that's partly a learning curve and a mental attitude, IDK

 

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

Now if Teflon Tom can give him his marriage counselor's phone number it will be perfect.

 

I think the fact that Bush said she was only going to be quiet a little longer then 🦗🦗 says they may have less need than some think, despite the fact that she's "A Lot" on Insta and Twitter.

 

But I don't think she's too impressed by this, actually

 

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1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

I'd just like to point out in that "even spending $1M a year, which is pretty hard to do"....a lot of these guys, even if they don't come from nothing like McKenzie, they come from "not much"...I think Poyer has said his family worked with juveniles, or in corrections?  His brother had a tryout in Canadian football, dunno if that went anywhere.  His wife's family is from a tiny hamlet in the Adirondacks, I mean, less than 500 people, 2 hrs from anywhere much.

 

So one way money gets spent is helping family and friends that they legit love and want to help.   House here, car there, business loan someplace else, bring the whole family on an all-expenses vacation, pay for your cousin's wedding.  It's probably easier than you think for them to spend a few million a year.

You're right.   And I didn't minimize that, I just didn't want to get into that whole subject.   It varies dramatically from player to player.   Allen and Knox seem not to do anything at all for their families, some other guys seem to need to do a lot.   But even in those situations, all they're doing is buying Mom a house - not a mansion, just a nice house, and some income assistance, so the amount of extended family support really varies.   

 

And to your point, that's exactly why how much they start with may matter.   Momma Diggs looks like she's doing just fine, thank you, because she's got two boys worth $100 million and they can give her more or less whatever she wants.   When it's one with $50 or $30, it can be a lot different.   But that's why I started out saying the agent helps a lot here, because the agent shows a guy like Poyer where he'll be financially at the end of his career and will help Poyer figure out how much money he needs to live on, including how much he needs for extended family support.  

 

However, none of that matters to the Bills.   The Bills are just going to tell him next February how much they're willing to commit to him, and Poyer will have to decide if the difference between what the Bills are offering and what other teams are offering is such that he needs to take the other offer to meet his financial needs.   The Bills will not overspend on Poyer because he wants to buy his mother a house in southern California overlooking the ocean.  

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15 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

 

 

No, this is Beane and Rosenhaus and Poyer having had serious discussions about how much the Bills value Poyer and how much they think they can prudently spend on him.   Poyer, for now, places a higher value on himself, in dollar terms.   They've had frank conversations about this.   And Beane has said that the Bills simply are not prepared today to make the cap commitment that Poyer is looking for.   So both sides understand that today, there won't be a long-term deal.   But the Bills also wanted to say to Poyer that they agree that he's really good and important to the franchise and they want to be sure, at least for this season, he gets paid what he's worth.  

 

Maybe a better way to look at this is this way:

 

They've had talks.  Rosenhaus said Poyer is worth $x million a year for four years.   

 

Bills said well, you might be a little high, but we more or less agree that's how much he's worth.   However, from our point of view, we aren't in a position today to commit that kind of money.   But if we were, Jordan would get some of the money from that four-year deal this season.   If he plays this year and leaves the Bills, he will have lost the opportunity for Jordan to earn that portion that he would have gotten this year.   That's not fair to him, so what we're going to do is give him something like the salary boost he would have seen this season if we could agree now on a long-term deal.   

 

Looked at that way, it isn't a sweetener, or a dinner on their last night out.   It's just being fair about how much he's worth on a season by season basis, and the Bills have agreed that he's being underpaid on his current contract. 

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2 hours ago, Boyst62 said:

I believe that if we sign Odell after a certain date we can differ his money to 2023

 While the signing of OBJ has some panache sound to it I highly doubt that it is really on Beane’s radar.  Diggs and Davis are an exceptional #1 & #2 who have chemistry with Josh.  Crowder, less the one interception play, looked solid. Li’ Dirty has chemistry with Josh. Shakir has flashed and The Bills will likely find him touches as the season goes on. The Bills roster is deep and OBJ would simply be another mouth to feed.

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1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I know.

ds j

But Thursday night convinced me even more that we undervalue Edmunds.  Hyde said something about with the new pass rush, the safeties can wait longer before committing, and if I remember correctly he also made some oblique comment about not having to worry much about the stuff in front of them.   I heard that as a reference to Edmunds just occupying that space.   

 

Then I watched Baldy's video review of some of the plays, and he was talking about how Stafford was using his eyes to try to stick Edmunds on the underneath receiver to give himself room to get over Edmunds to throw to Kupp behind him.  Stafford actually was throwing no-look passes, trying to keep Edmunds shallow.  One was incomplete, the second was Poyer's interception.  The point is that you could see that the Rams were forced into low probability throws, simply because they had to account for Edmunds.   That's the kind of stuff that is obvious to coaches and GMs but not to us.   I don't study the all-22s in such detail to figure out that's what's going on, but as I listen to others I'm becoming more and more convinced that Edmunds is much bigger factor in this defense than I can see just watching the games.  

Very interesting take. Given the size, arm length, and his ability to cover ground, I can see this for sure. 

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47 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Maybe a better way to look at this is this way:

 

They've had talks.  Rosenhaus said Poyer is worth $x million a year for four years.   

 

Bills said well, you might be a little high, but we more or less agree that's how much he's worth.   However, from our point of view, we aren't in a position today to commit that kind of money.   But if we were, Jordan would get some of the money from that four-year deal this season.   If he plays this year and leaves the Bills, he will have lost the opportunity for Jordan to earn that portion that he would have gotten this year.   That's not fair to him, so what we're going to do is give him something like the salary boost he would have seen this season if we could agree now on a long-term deal.   

 

Looked at that way, it isn't a sweetener, or a dinner on their last night out.   It's just being fair about how much he's worth on a season by season basis, and the Bills have agreed that he's being underpaid on his current contract. 

 

The interesting thing about offering him $2M incentives, is that depending upon how the NFL classes them ("unlikely to be earned"), most of that may count against next year's cap but still be entirely feasible for Poyer to achieve this season

 

Beane is very clever with this.

 

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3 hours ago, Logic said:

I saw this posted three minutes ago and was like “let me hustle over to TSW to post the good news”. But as the website was loading, I thought “nah…YOLO already posted it.”

 

Sure enough.

 

Fastest hands in the East.

 

That's what she said.

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1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

It is a move that shows respect towards Jordan. I still think it is likely a precursor to him playing elsewhere in 2023.

 

I tend to agree with you.

 

The only thing that is the complete wildcard as to what ultimately happens with players starting next year will be the new cap structure.

The more I read, the more I am believing it will indeed explode between 2023 and 2026.  There are many articles saying that by 2026 the

cap should be at a minimum of $300M.  Beane and the other GMs must know way more than we do about this.

It's going to be an interesting off season this year!

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Good move by Beane.

 

I have no idea if it will mean they can, or will, re-sign Poyer to a new deal next year, but I do like the message it sends out, which is basically 'we will try and take care of you if you perform'.

 

Tbh, I think, providing Poyer doesn't have excessive demands, they might be able to get him and Edmunds done next off-season, especially now they have got Knox inked for the future.

 

While I think Poyer will be capable of playing in diverse schemes, if I was him, I'd be looking very closely at the guaranteed $ on any new contract negotiations. At this stage of a career, I think that's as important as anything, as it's almost certainly going to be his last one.

 

If the Bills match guarantees, even if the total is different, I'd be thinking that it's better the devil you know, rather than chasing a bigger number that might not happen.

 

Too often we see guys move around for supposedly huge contracts, only to see them cut well before they can earn the money.

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2 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Take it easy fella.  But you are only party right here but mostly wrong 

 


Take what easy ?…  Who doesn’t like fairytales of benevolent sports agents? It sounds nice.  But I stand by my point and don’t think you sign Drew if you don’t plan on testing the market to maximize $ and that’s fine, but I expect that to be elsewhere. 

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2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Yup.  It's the price of success.   

 

But the Patriots wrote the playbook on this stuff.   Once they had their QB and a successful culture, part of the drill to stay on top was to have the discipline to let people walk.   You simply can't sign everyone you'd like to keep.  You have to be continually grooming the next young guy to take over.  The list of guys the Patriots let walk is amazing.

 

So, I simply will not assume that either Oliver or Davis is certain to get a second deal.   I think what the Bills will be doing is trying to project whether those guys are long-term locker room leaders.   Frankly, I don't think Oliver has shown that.   If he doesn't project as a long-term locker room leader, then the Bills wont' give him a big-time deal.   Look at White.   In his case, they made the projection and said, "yes, he's a keeper.   We want him here long-term."   Oliver on his rookie deal has not made himself a presence on the team the way White did.  And Oliver was a much higher draft pick, which is just a comment on what the Bills expected of him.  He hasn't reached those expectations, not like White did.  

 

We have to get used to the fact that this team is being run in ways that are different from what we've all been used to.   In the drought, we always were desperate to keep talent, because there simply wasn't enough to begin with.   That mentality is gone.   Now, the mentality is to be selective about what talent to keep, and do it in ways that allows you to maximize the quality of young talent you bring in behind them.  So, as much as I hate saying, the comp picks discussion actually is important now.  Those comp picks help fill the pipeline with young talent.  

 

We're not used to this mentality, because we've never been in this position before.   Bottom line, be prepared to see some people go who look like stars to us.  

 

The Bills have no intention of letting Oliver out of the building. Beane said as early as the post KC presser that he was going to pick up the 5th year option and then when they did that he said to Brown and Tasker "Ed is here this year and next year and hopefully a good while longer." I always say it but Brandon Beane tells you things when he speaks. I'm not always sure he intends to be as honest as he is, but he doesn't give the canned GM answers very often. Of course things can change but as of right now I think Ed Oliver is absolutely their #1 priority contract for next offseason. 

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1 hour ago, BuffaloBill said:

 While the signing of OBJ has some panache sound to it I highly doubt that it is really on Beane’s radar.  Diggs and Davis are an exceptional #1 & #2 who have chemistry with Josh.  Crowder, less the one interception play, looked solid. Li’ Dirty has chemistry with Josh. Shakir has flashed and The Bills will likely find him touches as the season goes on. The Bills roster is deep and OBJ would simply be another mouth to feed.

Totally agree. The only way obj makes sense  is if Diggs or Davis are injured long term and out for the season

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11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Bills have no intention of letting Oliver out of the building. Beane said as early as the post KC presser that he was going to pick up the 5th year option and then when they did that he said to Brown and Tasker "Ed is here this year and next year and hopefully a good while longer." I always say it but Brandon Beane tells you things when he speaks. I'm not always sure he intends to be as honest as he is, but he doesn't give the canned GM answers very often. Of course things can change but as of right now I think Ed Oliver is absolutely their #1 priority contract for next offseason. 

Thanks.  You follow it more closely than I, so I'll take that as the likely outcome.  

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1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I tend to agree with you.

 

The only thing that is the complete wildcard as to what ultimately happens with players starting next year will be the new cap structure.

The more I read, the more I am believing it will indeed explode between 2023 and 2026.  There are many articles saying that by 2026 the

cap should be at a minimum of $300M.  Beane and the other GMs must know way more than we do about this.

It's going to be an interesting off season this year!

I really don't think projected changes in the cap will make a lot of difference in a decision like this.  It's as much about continuing roster development as it is about cap room.   If you want to stay on top, you can't let your roster get old.  As it is, I think someone had a thread saying the Bills have the fifth oldest roster in the league.  You have to keep renewing your roster with younger guys, so you have to keep moving people out.  You want to keep only a small core of senior leadership, and maybe room for a couple of ringers, guys like Saffold.  

 

So if the Bills have extra cap room, they'll save it to land big time free agents, either coming off their rookie deals or coming onto the market for other reasons, like Miller.  

 

And I'd guess there's one more reason he's gone, and that they won't want their two safeties getting old together, because that would mean that they would have to replace both safeties at the same time.  They'd much rather keep one (Hyde, I'm sure) and give him a couple of seasons to play beside Poyer's replacement.   That way, when Hyde goes, Poyer's replacement will be a veteran, and he can train Hyde's replacement.  

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34 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Bills have no intention of letting Oliver out of the building. Beane said as early as the post KC presser that he was going to pick up the 5th year option and then when they did that he said to Brown and Tasker "Ed is here this year and next year and hopefully a good while longer." I always say it but Brandon Beane tells you things when he speaks. I'm not always sure he intends to be as honest as he is, but he doesn't give the canned GM answers very often. Of course things can change but as of right now I think Ed Oliver is absolutely their #1 priority contract for next offseason. 

I agree with this 1000%. I mean Beane isn't above playing his cards close to the vest Behind the scenes in his dealings with agents and player draft picks. He won't blurt out PRIVATE Confidential information in public. But otherwise I find he VERY candid and honest. I think he is brilliant at his job too btw. I listen carefully to what he does say. There is no intent to give baloney smoke filled answers to direct questions when he is interviewed. That's what I think. m

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3 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:


 

I mean it was not like in preseason OLine rankings the Bills were considered top 5 and were considered to have top depth, but keep believing what you want.  
 

Look around the league at OLine depth and you might understand why Beane is able to consistently trade off OLine depth - because they accumulate some of the best depth across the league.  You may hate Hart, but as a #4 guard he is excellent depth.

 

I think this is you not really getting the lack of OLine talent in the league.  Hart, Van Roten, Quisenberry have all been starters even up to last year in the league - that is something almost no other team has across the league.

 

 

 

You Dont Get It Over Your Head GIF

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26 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I really don't think projected changes in the cap will make a lot of difference in a decision like this.  It's as much about continuing roster development as it is about cap room.   If you want to stay on top, you can't let your roster get old.  As it is, I think someone had a thread saying the Bills have the fifth oldest roster in the league.  You have to keep renewing your roster with younger guys, so you have to keep moving people out.  You want to keep only a small core of senior leadership, and maybe room for a couple of ringers, guys like Saffold.  

 

So if the Bills have extra cap room, they'll save it to land big time free agents, either coming off their rookie deals or coming onto the market for other reasons, like Miller.  

 

And I'd guess there's one more reason he's gone, and that they won't want their two safeties getting old together, because that would mean that they would have to replace both safeties at the same time.  They'd much rather keep one (Hyde, I'm sure) and give him a couple of seasons to play beside Poyer's replacement.   That way, when Hyde goes, Poyer's replacement will be a veteran, and he can train Hyde's replacement.  

 

I agreed that Poyer is most likely gone.  As to my comments on cap I just meant that a larger increase would enable Beane to keep a 

couple more of the UFAs he has coming up.  I also agree with the way the safeties probably role over.

 

I don't totally agree about Beane bringing in some high dollar FAs next year.  I think he uses his money to re-sign his own FAs.

 

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1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:


Take what easy ?…  Who doesn’t like fairytales of benevolent sports agents? It sounds nice.  But I stand by my point and don’t think you sign Drew if you don’t plan on testing the market to maximize $ and that’s fine, but I expect that to be elsewhere. 

You are so wise and intelligent.  Get over yourself

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9 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I agreed that Poyer is most likely gone.  As to my comments on cap I just meant that a larger increase would enable Beane to keep a 

couple more of the UFAs he has coming up.  I also agree with the way the safeties probably role over.

 

I don't totally agree about Beane bringing in some high dollar FAs next year.  I think he uses his money to re-sign his own FAs.

 

I hear you.  I really don't study the cap like a lot of you guys, so I wasn't talking particularly about next year.   I was talking more in general terms, that he won't generally spend cap dollars to keep too many older guys who aren't core leaders on the team.   He has to keep working on a youth movement all the time.  All I meant was that by saving the money he could spend on a guy like Poyer, the saved money gives him the flexibility to move, from time to time, on a big free agent to bolster the team, a free agent like Miller.  

 

So, just because he has more money to spend, it doesn't necessarily mean he keeps more UFA, because some of those UFAs will have the unwanted effect of aging the roster.   

 

It's all a huge balancing act, or better, a juggling act.  Beane's constantly weighing short-term team needs, long-term team needs,  cap space available each year, age of the roster, and how much Rachel Bush needs for her next procedure.  

30 minutes ago, chris heff said:

Oh like you wouldn’t buy her a Lamborghini 

Or two. 

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A lot of talk about the Bills doing this to “keep him quiet” or “knowing he’s leaving”. 
 

The Bills may or may not re-sign Poyer. But make no bones about this, the Bills are doing this because they want to try and keep him. They are willing to lose $2M this year even if he doesn’t.

 

But it’s certainly not paying $2M just to make Poyer shut up. They’re doing their best to keep him. Full stop. 

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Just now, Mango said:

A lot of talk about the Bills doing this to “keep him quiet” or “knowing he’s leaving”. 
 

The Bills may or may not re-sign Poyer. But make no bones about this, the Bills are doing this because they want to try and keep him. They are willing to lose $2M this year even if he doesn’t.

 

But it’s certainly not paying $2M just to make Poyer shut up. They’re doing their best to keep him. Full stop. 

never read about keeping him quiet. I thought it was a short term and decent reward for his solid play and hope for another great season from him
 seemed like the right thing to do from Beanes 

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