uticaclub Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 16 minutes ago, Chaos said: The tre white and Von miller contracts were unlucky. The Knox contract was arguably bad judgment on Beanes part. Idk if you can say the Miller contract was unlucky. Most thought it was a terrible contact but if it got the Bills over the hump it would be worth every penny. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 52 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said: Is it still bad judgement if he never sees the big money? He made 6.4m last year, he hasn’t made the big numbers yet in his contract. Cap hit is all is all that matters from a fan perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 17 minutes ago, Chaos said: Cap hit is all is all that matters from a fan perspective. That is the cap hit. He actually "made" $12.4m last year. The cap hit was $6.4m He will "make" $10.5m last year. The cap hit is currently $14.3m but will likely end up $11.5m 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 I could see them doing a cap saving maneuver with Knox. Possible trade candidate imo. Not a must but something to keep an eye on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 4 minutes ago, Mat68 said: I could see them doing a cap saving maneuver with Knox. Possible trade candidate imo. Not a must but something to keep an eye on. I think this year he will be restructured and stay. A trade is a possibility next offseason though. That makes a lot of sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 I like the idea of being a heavy 12 formation team, but Knox's contract is too rich. I think they should look to restructure and somehow incorporate a cut within that structure. You could look to extend it by a year or two and have those years be very low payout years and spread out the cap hit. Or they could just ask for him to take a pay cut and restructure. I think Knox would go along with some variation of a pay cut and restructure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 You can't catch what isn't thrown to you. Is it really on Knox that Dorsey had no idea he was on the roster until late in 2022 when suddenly he remembered Knox was coming off a 9 TD season (where he was also woefully under used by Daboll) and started using him the redzone again to a high degree of success. But he was too often relegated to trying make up for a bad OL and used as an extra blocker here. And now that we have a better OL, we also have Kincaid whose specialty is as a receiver, so it again keeps Knox value more often as a blocker. His contract made sense when he got it if he was going to be a fixture in the offense, but his contract now currently exceeds his current role which is more heavily as a blocker with Kincaid here. Look at SF. Kittle wasn't producing anything in 2022 with Jimmy G at QB because Jimmy was a statue and Kittle was constantly used as a blocker. Then Purdy comes in and suddenly has pocket mobility and escape the rush on his own and poof Kittle becomes a major weapon in that offense has a big finish to the season. I am not saying Knox is on Kittle's level, but I am saying Knox is capable of much more statistically as a receiver if he could just get the targets. He could easily be playing up to his contract from an offensive stand point if he was in an offense that actually used him consistently as a weapon and gave him targets. Regardless, because of his current role and reduced targets combined with his contract, I do think Knox could be a trade target. They can bring in a much cheaper TE to fill a heavier blocking role in FA or even draft one. Unfortunately for Knox, his contract is now expensive for what his likely role will be again this year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeAndy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, Chaos said: Cap hit is all is all that matters from a fan perspective. As it should be, if he gets extra money that doesn’t impact our ability to sign other players, who cares? Or unless I’m mistaken and his cap hit wasn’t 6.4 this last season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Returntoglory Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said: Is it still bad judgement if he never sees the big money? He made 6.4m last year, he hasn’t made the big numbers yet in his contract. He also hasn't made the big plays! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeAndy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, Returntoglory said: He also hasn't made the big plays! Last year? Dude was injured 80% of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I think this year he will be restructured and stay. A trade is a possibility next offseason though. That makes a lot of sense to me. Agreed. If Kincaid substantially improves his blocking this season, then Knox can get shipped out. Not happening until then. I think that’s the Bills plan tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 22 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Look at SF. Kittle wasn't producing anything in 2022 with Jimmy G at QB because Jimmy was a statue and Kittle was constantly used as a blocker. Then Purdy comes in and suddenly has pocket mobility and escape the rush on his own and poof Kittle becomes a major weapon in that offense has a big finish to the season. I am not saying Knox is on Kittle's level, but I am saying Knox is capable of much more statistically as a receiver if he could just get the targets. He could easily be playing up to his contract from an offensive stand point if he was in an offense that actually used him consistently as a weapon and gave him targets. Looking at the numbers, I don't see that to be the case at all. 9 games with Jimmy G he averaged 4 receptions per game for 50 ypg. Had three games with 80+ receiving yards (1 every third game) and 4 games under 30 receiving yards. 6 games with Purdy he averaged 4 receptions per game for 52 ypg. Had two games with 80+ receiving yards (1 every third game) and 4 games under 30 yards receiving, a more frequent rate of < 30 yard games than he had with Jimmy G as QB. Kittle was used as a bigger red zone threat late in the season that year, but in terms of an important piece of the offense between the 20's, it doesn't appear that Kittle was used any differently than when he had Jimmy G throwing him the ball. Knox's entire career has mostly been the same but with much less production between the 20's. And some years Knox is used in the red zone, but other years he is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 On 2/23/2024 at 9:25 AM, Chaos said: The tre white and Von miller contracts were unlucky. The Knox contract was arguably bad judgment on Beanes part. Unlucky, huh? Well, if you support all things Buffalo Bills at all times, I guess you would write that. Others might suggest there were hugely foreseeable and easily avoided mistakes. Knox never looked like the real deal and dumping that huge money into a marquis pass rusher at the end of his career was ALWAYS going to be a folly. Always WILL be a folly. Kind of like throwing giant money at the biggest named FA on the first day of FA signings. The best GMs don't do that crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 I think Knox is a solid TE, and along with Kincaid, make up the best TE duo in the league. I think there's a lot of value in that. I think they restructure Knox to help the cap hit and keep him here through his prime. I like having 2 strong TE's. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Just now, klos63 said: I think Knox is a solid TE, and along with Kincaid, make up the best TE duo in the league. I think there's a lot of value in that. I think they restructure Knox to help the cap hit and keep him here through his prime. I like having 2 strong TE's. It just seems like more of a luxury when our QB is philosophically opposed to throwing to TE’s unless it’s a seam route or in the red zone. If we weren’t up against the cap, I don’t mind it at all.. but I’d much rather have Kincaid/Morris and then Knox money towards a legit WR3/4. Maybe it works out better this year. I do think Knox is a good TE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerDave Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 On 2/23/2024 at 9:25 AM, Chaos said: The tre white and Von miller contracts were unlucky. The Knox contract was arguably bad judgment on Beanes part. And yet, when the contract was announced, all of TSW was happy. No one said it was bad judgment at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 23 minutes ago, RangerDave said: And yet, when the contract was announced, all of TSW was happy. No one said it was bad judgment at the time. The majority of fans cheer for every contract regardless of the numbers. It's not specific to this fanbase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerBillsFan Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 It was a terrible contract then,and it's terrible now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephilim17 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 42 minutes ago, RangerDave said: And yet, when the contract was announced, all of TSW was happy. No one said it was bad judgment at the time. Most people were happy. @Back2Buff @Einstein @Wayne Arnold were not fans of the extension. And they took heat for it. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) On 2/23/2024 at 8:42 AM, TheyCallMeAndy said: Is it still bad judgement if he never sees the big money? He made 6.4m last year, he hasn’t made the big numbers yet in his contract. ummm I’m seeing 12.5m last year in cash flow to Knox between salary, roster bonuses, etc…. Edited February 24 by NoSaint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahnyc Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 I don't really understand the focus on the Knox contract. Not a good contract, but Knox was coming off a solid season and Kincaid had not been drafted (plus Knox seems to be pals with Allen, for whatever additional value that provided). Sure, it would be great if we could be using some of the cap dollars that represent an over pay by the Bills for the Knox contract, but shouldn't there be a lot more discussion regarding the awful contract with Miller given the magnitude of the wasted dollars involved compared to the Knox contract? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeAndy Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 8 minutes ago, NoSaint said: ummm I’m seeing 12.5m last year in cash flow to Knox between salary, roster bonuses, etc…. Does only the 6.4 count against the cap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 2 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said: Does only the 6.4 count against the cap? that was his 2023 cap hit, but every buck he’s paid counts against the cap in the coming years still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 6 minutes ago, jahnyc said: I don't really understand the focus on the Knox contract. Not a good contract, but Knox was coming off a solid season and Kincaid had not been drafted (plus Knox seems to be pals with Allen, for whatever additional value that provided). Sure, it would be great if we could be using some of the cap dollars that represent an over pay by the Bills for the Knox contract, but shouldn't there be a lot more discussion regarding the awful contract with Miller given the magnitude of the wasted dollars involved compared to the Knox contract? Like many contracts, I think Knox's will get better with time. The cap just had a dramatic increase and league revenues will likely continue to rise substantially. In 2 years we'll have some big contracts off the books and and replaced with younger players deals. I don't think Knox has a contract we should be worried about. Plus, he'll likely have a restructure coming up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 He was hurt for most of last year and he was productive before he got hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 2 minutes ago, klos63 said: Like many contracts, I think Knox's will get better with time. The cap just had a dramatic increase and league revenues will likely continue to rise substantially. In 2 years we'll have some big contracts off the books and and replaced with younger players deals. I don't think Knox has a contract we should be worried about. Plus, he'll likely have a restructure coming up. there’s a good chance he’s gone in 2 years - it needs to look better fast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWK Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 16 minutes ago, klos63 said: Like many contracts, I think Knox's will get better with time. The cap just had a dramatic increase and league revenues will likely continue to rise substantially. In 2 years we'll have some big contracts off the books and and replaced with younger players deals. I don't think Knox has a contract we should be worried about. Plus, he'll likely have a restructure coming up. Knox had 186 receiving yards last year for 13 million a year. It is a disaster of a contract. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 39 minutes ago, klos63 said: Plus, he'll likely have a restructure coming up. Why do you think the Bills would want to restructure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 24 minutes ago, Chaos said: Why do you think the Bills would want to restructure? because they plan on keeping him on the team a few more seasons and this would help alleviate some cap issues we currently have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellDopeland Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Classic fan mentality in this thread. Since Kincaid has emerged, they advocate for trading Knox..."He makes too much money!!" They act like they're paying Knox out of their own bank accounts. If Beane were to listen to them, trade Knox for a 4th rounder, and use that pick on the BPA; then the Bills end up with, let's say, a backup OT. Then in week 3, when Kindaid pulls a hamstring, Morris or some scrub rookie/street free agent ends up starting at TE. Then the same fans that b!tched about Knox's contract rant about the team not having any depth and what a poor job of roster construction Beane has done. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, HardyBoy said: He was hurt for most of last year and he was productive before he got hurt. He missed 5 games. When he came back healthy after the bye he played 45% of the snaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 17 minutes ago, klos63 said: because they plan on keeping him on the team a few more seasons and this would help alleviate some cap issues we currently have. Do you think Knox is going to simply take less money without getting cut and becoming a free agent? Or do you think the bills will restructure and guarantee the rest of his contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeAndy Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, MWK said: Knox had 186 receiving yards last year for 13 million a year. It is a disaster of a contract. He also got hurt. 7 minutes ago, Chaos said: Do you think Knox is going to simply take less money without getting cut and becoming a free agent? Or do you think the bills will restructure and guarantee the rest of his contract. I think they restructure and commit longer, he’s a good player and a solid TE1b 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 42 minutes ago, QCity said: He missed 5 games. When he came back healthy after the bye he played 45% of the snaps. He played hurt for a few games too... also, I'm sure the injury limited this ability to do certain things after he came back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 52 minutes ago, klos63 said: because they plan on keeping him on the team a few more seasons and this would help alleviate some cap issues we currently have. A restructure would alleviate some of the problems now, but would make his contract even worse in the years to come. I think the Bills should approach him about a pay cut, not a restructure. 41 minutes ago, QCity said: He missed 5 games. When he came back healthy after the bye he played 45% of the snaps. I think it feels like Knox missed most of the year because he was largely a non-factor. It was a bad contract then (and I said as much before Kincaid was even on the radar) and it’s a bad contract now. The timing of it - after his brother had passed and before he ever took a snap in Dorsey’s offense - was curious to me. If all things stay status quo, I can’t see him being a real threat when we’ll have Diggs, Kincaid, a highly touted rookie, and Cook stealing his targets. Maybe even Shakir. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 41 minutes ago, Chaos said: Do you think Knox is going to simply take less money without getting cut and becoming a free agent? Or do you think the bills will restructure and guarantee the rest of his contract. just guessing, obviously, but I would expect a restructure to alleviate cap space and no changes to the overall value of the deal. But overall, i think they see Knox as a big asset and want him on the team going forward, and restructures seem to be part of the plan on most big contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 8 hours ago, RussellDopeland said: Classic fan mentality in this thread. Since Kincaid has emerged, they advocate for trading Knox..."He makes too much money!!" They act like they're paying Knox out of their own bank accounts. If Beane were to listen to them, trade Knox for a 4th rounder, and use that pick on the BPA; then the Bills end up with, let's say, a backup OT. Then in week 3, when Kindaid pulls a hamstring, Morris or some scrub rookie/street free agent ends up starting at TE. Then the same fans that b!tched about Knox's contract rant about the team not having any depth and what a poor job of roster construction Beane has done. you can’t pay top ten money for a backup and Knox will quickly be that. 7 hours ago, klos63 said: just guessing, obviously, but I would expect a restructure to alleviate cap space and no changes to the overall value of the deal. But overall, i think they see Knox as a big asset and want him on the team going forward, and restructures seem to be part of the plan on most big contracts. once Kincaid got here it became an entirely different issue than you are framing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 10 hours ago, jahnyc said: I don't really understand the focus on the Knox contract. Not a good contract, but Knox was coming off a solid season and Kincaid had not been drafted (plus Knox seems to be pals with Allen, for whatever additional value that provided). Sure, it would be great if we could be using some of the cap dollars that represent an over pay by the Bills for the Knox contract, but shouldn't there be a lot more discussion regarding the awful contract with Miller given the magnitude of the wasted dollars involved compared to the Knox contract? Not that type of money season!! Beane got Jerry Maguire'd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Why is this such a popular thread right now??? We aren't cutting Knox. We aren't trading Knox. Most likely scenario is actually that we restructure his contract and he's locked into the Bills for closer to the duration of the deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 8 hours ago, HardyBoy said: He played hurt for a few games too... also, I'm sure the injury limited this ability to do certain things after he came back Another reason why it was a bad contract. Knox stays knicked up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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