PBF81 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Bragging after an injury plagued season? His best game came after his injury, even then, 3 for 36. In his starts he averaged 2 catches for 17 yards. Even healthy he was pedestrian in the passing game, posting only 2 TDs, only one of significance, he posted a three-year low in 1st-Down/TD combos, and his 2 TDs were his career lowest and tied with his rookie season. Most puzzling is that they gave him that enormous contract, them used the 1st-round pick on Kincaid. Presumably for a lot of 2TE sets. But that didn't seem to work out so well down the stretch. Same with Hines & Sherfield & Harty, we always have big plans but can't seem to implement them, as if there's a disconnect between Beane & McD. It's reasonable to consider that the ever changing strategies on offense also aren't doing Allen any favors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtnatefootball11 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Yeah, he's 16th in Base Salary this year: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/base/tight-end/ And 5th in total cap hit: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cap-hit/tight-end/ I know at one point the Bills were undefeated in games Knox scored at least 1 TD. Something to be said for that and our offense clicking when we can get him the ball. I normally agree with your takes Dawk but this is delusional. You have to look at total cap hit. He's 4th, Taysom Hill was paid as a quarterback/TE, not TE. He's a number two TE for us moving forward, and we spent a first round pick on a TE last year! Wake up. The Bills own FO office knows it was a bad contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) 4 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said: Evans and a rookie would be great. Or the 2024 versions of Sanders and Brown (not sure who that would be) who could be brought in for a reasonable price. Evans and a high rookie would be a grand slam! Sanders and Brown.....perhaps Tyler Boyd and Hollywood Brown are those type of players? I don't see any way Beane actually pulls this off, but it would be terrifying for the AFC Evans Diggs T. Franklin Shakir Rookie mid rounds Shorter Edited February 22 by Warriorspikes51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said: I think he’ll be a redzone target and blocker moving forward. I don’t think he’s going to live up to the contract, but that’s easy to see today. He was an OK blocker, but he's not getting paid that much to block, as we all know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtnatefootball11 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said: I think he’ll be a redzone target and blocker moving forward. I don’t think he’s going to live up to the contract, but that’s easy to see today. It was predictable at the time too. He's always had injury/drop issues. Was never going to be an elite TE, should have never been paid as one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 When the Bills gave Knox this extension, it made sense. Then Dalton Kincaid happened. Now Knox's contract no longer makes sense. It's palatable for now, because they don't have other big dollars wrapped up in the TE position since Kincaid is on a rookie deal. Ultimately, for this to be sustainable for another couple seasons, they'll need to either make Knox a meaningful part of the offense along with Kincaid, or substantially re-structure the deal. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 5 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said: Evans and a rookie would be great. Or the 2024 versions of Sanders and Brown (not sure who that would be) who could be brought in for a reasonable price. Everytime I hear about Evans, I remember the heat I took for insisting that he would have a notably better career than Watkins after that draft because he was a much better and far more complete WR. We could have had him all along instead. Or OBJ, or even Cooks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 At the time they signed Knox, Dalton Kincaid was still in college and nobody could have known we’d have the chance to draft him. Were they supposed to not sign Knox? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) 10 minutes ago, vtnatefootball11 said: It was predictable at the time too. He's always had injury/drop issues. Was never going to be an elite TE, should have never been paid as one. Well you were right. 👏 I don’t think many were calling for a huge extension. But I definitely felt he had special talent for a TE. I really don’t want to see him on the field much anymore. Kincaid and Shakir should dominate passing reps over Knox. I love a traditional 11 personnel offense and I think Josh is much better running 11 personnel. Edited February 22 by Buffalo_Stampede 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stonada Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 I think they gave him the big contract partly for potential (those early angry runs) and partly because he's a team guy and McDermott loves him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Well thanks for reminding us how much we loved it at the time. I guess? I'm not going to pretend that the last two years were not disappointing but I find it useful to look at when and where the dropoff happened. Even in his best year Knox didn't put up crazy yards but was a massive RedZone threat I don't think it's a coincidence that along with the personal stuff and injuries going from 9 TDs to massive dropoff conincided with Daboll leaving and an uptick in RedZone a few weeks after he returned with Brady calling plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 14 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said: we REALLY need some speed at WR. It feels like we never hit a deep ball anymore, and it used to be a big part of the offense. I feel like I've never seen Kittle have a big game Yup, that speed you speak of comes from the Brown / Sanders replacement, that has yet to happen. Just think of our offense with Diggs, (the new John Brown), Shakir, Kincaid, and Knox, catching the ball, add in the RBs and ya got a pick your poison scenario for defenses, God I hope Beane out does himself in this regard…, we really need this to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Just now, Don Otreply said: Yup, that speed you speak of comes from the Brown / Sanders replacement, that has yet to happen. Just think of our offense with Diggs, (the new John Brown), Shakir, Kincaid, and Knox, catching the ball, add in the RBs and ya got a pick your poison scenario for defenses, God I hope Beane out does himself in this regard…, we really need this to happen. and Henry... I would LOVE to have the big man pounding the rock when we need the tough yards or need to ice the game 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 it's almost like the drafting and signing strategies are not fully aligned with the play calling. Signing Knox then getting Kincade, ok, 2 TE sets. Never really happened. Drafting Elam who is a press corner. Also odd. Hopefully the coaches will play to the talent this year, we seem to have a lot of it, but need to rev it up a bit. We could come out in a game with 2 TE, then move away from it, go back to it, etc. Really a lot of weapons, and hopefully another 1-2 with WRs in the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 4 minutes ago, Ray Stonada said: I think they gave him the big contract partly for potential (those early angry runs) and partly because he's a team guy and McDermott loves him. He’s a lot like Gabe Davis if you think about it. Inconsistent. Has some big moments. Great team guy. I think if they didn’t sign Knox they would’ve signed Gabe Davis. Which player would you rather have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Just now, TheFunPolice said: and Henry... I would LOVE to have the big man pounding the rock when we need the tough yards or need to ice the game another thing here, having Henry in those situations stops Josh from having to be the guy taking that pounding, which is something the FO wants. Let him be free on passing downs to take a lane if there, but no need on short yards of under 5. We could pound Henry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephilim17 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Good guy, occasionally makes a big play. Crazy contract for his production. Beane swung and missed on this one. It happens. I expect this year will see a lot more of Kincaid and Knox will realize he's lost the TE #1 spot for good. Will he redo his deal for less money? I don't know. Can't release him in 2024 without taking $20 million dead cap. That's $7.8 million dead cap in 2025, vs. a $15.4 million 2025 salary. I expect him cut next year if he doesn't redo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtnatefootball11 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 10 minutes ago, Beast said: At the time they signed Knox, Dalton Kincaid was still in college and nobody could have known we’d have the chance to draft him. Were they supposed to not sign Knox? They could have waited another year, he wasn't a free agent. They also didn't have to committ top 5 TE money for 4 years! The fact they even took a TE in the first round just a year after signing Knox to that contract shows says a lot. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uticaclub Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 This was an example of “keeping our guys” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtnatefootball11 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Well you were right. 👏 I don’t think many were calling for a huge extension. But I definitely felt he had special talent for a TE. I really don’t want to see him on the field much anymore. Kincaid and Shakir should dominate passing reps over Knox. I love a traditional 11 personnel offense and I think Josh is much better running 11 personnel. This is fair and I agree on the personnel. Diggs, explosive rookie WR2, Shakir and Kincaid in traditional 11 personnel should be our base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Just now, RyanC883 said: another thing here, having Henry in those situations stops Josh from having to be the guy taking that pounding, which is something the FO wants. Let him be free on passing downs to take a lane if there, but no need on short yards of under 5. We could pound Henry. Love it! And Cook, Allen and Henry all stay fresher for the stretch run Give the king 10 touches a game, max, unless circumstances warrant it and ramp up in late December/early January so he's near full strength when the games are biggest In the old days guys would push back on that, but these days younger players understand and appreciate load management a lot more The goal is 20 carries for the king to ice the AFC Title Game in Orchard Park once we're up multiple scores 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 3 minutes ago, vtnatefootball11 said: They could have waited another year, he wasn't a free agent. They also didn't have to committ top 5 TE money for 4 years! The fact they even took a TE in the first round just a year after signing Knox to that contract shows says a lot. Look, the way I see it is that Dawson Knox was certainly an up and comer at the time they signed him to that deal. They probably did overpay but the sky, at that time, seemed to be the limit for that kid. Most all teams in the league are dealing with contracts they wish they hadn’t handed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Just now, TheFunPolice said: and Henry... I would LOVE to have the big man pounding the rock when we need the tough yards or need to ice the game A Henry type RB would be certainly nice, but imo, not as important an acquisition as getting a new John Brown type of receiver, but bigger, and ideally through the draft that can go long with speed and be a screen pass option type of thing, a guy who can run an expanded route tree, fingers crossed 🤞 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtnatefootball11 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: He’s a lot like Gabe Davis if you think about it. Inconsistent. Has some big moments. Great team guy. I think if they didn’t sign Knox they would’ve signed Gabe Davis. Which player would you rather have? Beane should have done exactly what they are doing with Davis (and what they did with Edmunds), not panic and overpay with a year still left on this contract for a guy that still has questions marks and has proven won't be elite. Let them play their final year and walk if they won't take a team friendly deal. Of course, it's never an easy call and Beane has done so well, he just really messed up on the Knox call. I have to think Allen's friendship with Knox loomed large and maybe caused a decision that went against Beane's better judgement. Edited February 22 by vtnatefootball11 1 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBFL Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 4 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said: Love it! And Cook, Allen and Henry all stay fresher for the stretch run Give the king 10 touches a game, max, unless circumstances warrant it and ramp up in late December/early January so he's near full strength when the games are biggest In the old days guys would push back on that, but these days younger players understand and appreciate load management a lot more The goal is 20 carries for the king to ice the AFC Title Game in Orchard Park once we're up multiple scores The question becomes what is Henry’s asking price? The ball park projection is a one year $8-10m. He still has voidable on the Titans’ books which means if it’s $10m, 4.7m is what they are still paying him… Does he take a $4m deal to come here? Maybe… Not that it matters, but do fans want them forking out $6-7m for a guy who’s only getting 10 touches unless the circumstances dictate otherwise? Someone is going to pay more than 4 for his services. Guaranteed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 13 minutes ago, RyanC883 said: it's almost like the drafting and signing strategies are not fully aligned with the play calling. Signing Knox then getting Kincade, ok, 2 TE sets. Never really happened. Drafting Elam who is a press corner. Also odd. Hopefully the coaches will play to the talent this year, we seem to have a lot of it, but need to rev it up a bit. We could come out in a game with 2 TE, then move away from it, go back to it, etc. Really a lot of weapons, and hopefully another 1-2 with WRs in the draft. I feel like they went 2 TEs alot with Dorsey and wasn't that effective, Brady then opened up the O, getting Shakir in the slot instead Knox is still a valuable piece but this contract was way too high 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerBillsFan Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Kincaid is TE 1 now and thats a done deal. Shakir is in the slot so I see Knox as TE 2,and used as an additional blocker and endzone target only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 17 minutes ago, RyanC883 said: it's almost like the drafting and signing strategies are not fully aligned with the play calling. Signing Knox then getting Kincade, ok, 2 TE sets. Never really happened. Drafting Elam who is a press corner. Also odd. Hopefully the coaches will play to the talent this year, we seem to have a lot of it, but need to rev it up a bit. We could come out in a game with 2 TE, then move away from it, go back to it, etc. Really a lot of weapons, and hopefully another 1-2 with WRs in the draft. They signed Knox two seasons ago. Did you think they should’ve thought, “we shouldn’t sign Knox in case there’s a first round TE we draft next year because all of the good WR’s are gone?” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sven233 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Make no mistake about it.....Knox is a good football player. I just wish we weren't the ones paying him $14 mill a year. He'd be fine as another team's number 1 at that money, but on this team, that money should have been invested in getting better at other positions. Now, maybe it's because this team is littered with offensive talent that can't hold onto the ball in crucial times, but he's always had a drop problem. He'll make the occasional outstanding play, but then drop the easy 3rd down conversion that we really needed in that moment. Unfortunately, he's not the only one on this team that has ben prone to do this in recent years. Cook, who I never saw drop a ball in college, has dropped what.....5 easy TDs? Gabe Davis, who won't probably be on this team going forward, was prone to not coming up with the ball when needed the last couple years anyway. Even Diggs, who has shown to have some of the best hands in the league at times, has recently not come up with catches when needed. You throw Knox's drops that have been there all along, and it just makes that contract tougher to swallow. That's not his fault that these other guys drop the ball as well, but it seems all of our playmakers are prone to come up short when needed the most and when he drops the easy ones sometimes, it is just frustrating. They could have waited on the contract too.....they didn't need to do it when they did. Throw in the fact that they drafted Kincaid (who is a much better and more talented player) who is forcing Knox down the depth chart, and that doesn't help either. I think a combination of all these things play into the frustration with Knox and his contract, but he's still a good player. Just shouldn't be making that money on this team. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negan Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 When does it financially make sense to cut Knox? Trade partner maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 I was a bit skeptical about the dollar amount considering his usage in the offense. Since then, his usage has only decreased and we invested a 1st round pick in another TE. This deal looks pretty bad now. Knox is good but should not be making top TE money. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 30 minutes ago, vtnatefootball11 said: Beane should have done exactly what they are doing with Davis (and what they did with Edmunds), not panic and overpay with a year still left on this contract for a guy that still has questions marks and has proven won't be elite. Let them play their final year and walk if they won't take a team friendly deal. Of course, it's never an easy call and Beane has done so well, he just really messed up on the Knox call. I have to think Allen's friendship with Knox loomed large and maybe caused a decision that went against Beane's better judgement. So very true....we were so smart with Edmunds & Davis, yet I think Josh's friendship influenced the quick decision. Now we know Kincaid is far superior and unfortunately we're stuck with an expensive blocking TE. We gotta start ending these contracts. The money from Knox and Von alone could be put to better use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 How about a trade to NYG? Dawson Knox, 2nd & 4th in 25 for Dexter Lawrence? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 10 minutes ago, Negan said: When does it financially make sense to cut Knox? Trade partner maybe? 2025 it's possible. I am not sure what you'd get for him that would make it worthwhile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FilthyBeast Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 These threads are always interesting to revisit, but in hindsight talk about what might be the worst deal of Beane's tenure in Buffalo. Even if you consider Kincaid more of a slot WR type of player, there's no justification for Knox to be paid this type of money at the TE position given his production. He also still has serious problems with catching the ball and staying healthy. Best case is that he agrees to a contract restructure that allows him to be traded or released but that's always easier said than done. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 18 minutes ago, Negan said: When does it financially make sense to cut Knox? Trade partner maybe? 2025 Dead cap hit would be 7.8M 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 giving good, but not elite players elite money is a way to make your team mediocre. We could get a nice WR with this money. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Looks like I didn’t comment in this thread at the time of the extension…. I like Knox, and probably would have been in favour like most were … It’s not looking great now though … and they are handcuffed to him another year at least ,,,. I hope Brady can utilise him more in 2024 than what we saw this year … but I don’t want this to come at the expense of Kincaid taking the next step … Trying to be optimistic…. He is a number 1 TE on some teams still , so they should be able to move him on for a pick next year .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 40 minutes ago, Bangarang said: I was a bit skeptical about the dollar amount considering his usage in the offense. Since then, his usage has only decreased and we invested a 1st round pick in another TE. This deal looks pretty bad now. Knox is good but should not be making top TE money. That was my exact argument at the time. Josh had never shown a reliance on using the TE, so I didn’t understand the timing of the extension. Especially when you also factor in it was Dorsey’s first year as a play caller. Wouldn’t you like to see how Knox is utilized before throwing that sort of money at him?I also didn’t think Knox would suddenly develop glue hands if he were to get more targets. That drop against PIT that led to Bernard getting injured on the very next series was inexcusable. No one but the Bills was paying Knox that contract. We outbid ourselves. He’s a great guy by all accounts and a close friend of Josh, but that’s bad money. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 2 hours ago, vtnatefootball11 said: Bringing this thread back to life after some time has passed from the Knox signing. I took a lot of heat for saying it on this board at the time, but it was a terrible contract then and looks even worse now. It needs to be talked about how bad of a miss this was by Beane. He is going to count $14 mil against the cap this year, $20m if we release him... How the heck did Beane let this happen! His touchdown numbers were inflated that season before we re-signed him, there was no good reason to extend him at that time. He's never flashed elite talent. I'm still sick over it. The negative reactions to this comment speak volumes. The Knox deal was a bad one and there's no way to justify it. Think of where that money could be going this off season. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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