Dopey Posted September 4, 2022 Share Posted September 4, 2022 On 9/3/2022 at 7:37 AM, HOUSE said: Trumaine Edmunds is still very young He is a talented dude. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley Lombardi Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 OJ over Bruce by a nose, with Allen gaining on the backstretch. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 In one game dominance, no one has ever or can ever exceed the score on every drive performance Josh Allen put up in the playoffs. If one takes longevity and the full career into account, it is Bruce Smith and there is no room for discussion. OJ's talents never really lead to winning, so he is not part of the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boater Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 This is a hard question for us middle-agers to answer. we have parents who regale us of stories of Cookie Gilchrist and Jack Kemp we lived the glory years of the 4x Superbowl run we experienced the playoff draught and we're where we at today: favorites for the Super Bowl I'm going retro and modern. Cookie. He may have been the best natural athlete, from training camp in East Aurora, when all the players had side-jobs. It may be trite to say so, but I think JA17 is something special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 50 minutes ago, boater said: This is a hard question for us middle-agers to answer. we have parents who regale us of stories of Cookie Gilchrist and Jack Kemp we lived the glory years of the 4x Superbowl run we experienced the playoff draught and we're where we at today: favorites for the Super Bowl I'm going retro and modern. Cookie. He may have been the best natural athlete, from training camp in East Aurora, when all the players had side-jobs. It may be trite to say so, but I think JA17 is something special. Since 1968 the players association has maintained at least a 9k salary for rookies … which isn’t getting players wealthy but still like 78k which is great Ralph Offered cookie Gilchrist 30K in 1963 which is over 250k The players werent millionaires but they were getting payed pretty decent since the 60s… The guys in the 20s had a bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 On 9/3/2022 at 5:50 AM, Chandler#81 said: OJ & Bruce we’re 1st overall picks. Allen* ‘dropping’ to 7th overall will never be forgiven by the fans whose team didn’t select him. The Juice was a phenom, though he played with 2 HOF Guards, brilliant WRs and a very effective HC & QB. Bruce was literally surrounded by HOFers -including his coach & was excellent vs the run. But he was significantly more productive as a pass rusher because of the immense talent on his offenses. The Unicorn* -remember, your read that here 1st- still has no clue how great he can be as he’s personally aced every pressure situation he’s faced to date. Barring injury, he’s a lock as most talented ever. But remember, so was Tom Sestak, Robert James & Jerry Butler, all of whom only enjoyed a few great seasons before injuries killed their careers. As to the OP’s request for my Top 5, I’ll add Butch Byrd and Cookie Gilcrest. Byrd was an enigma, built like a LB and ferocious. His 40 career INTs will likely never be topped. Cookie and Terrell Owens we’re also enigmas whose character quirks had them playing for multiple teams, wearing out their welcome with each stop while being eye-poppingly incredible players. Honorable mention: Cornelius Bennett I'm gonna agree with Chandler and say Cookie Gilchrist. I was told that Cookie was comparable to Jim Brown. Had it not been for his attitude, he would've been mentioned as one of the greats. Can't forget about T.O. either. Guy still runs a sub 4.5 40 at 40 years of age Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said: I'm gonna agree with Chandler and say Cookie Gilchrist. I was told that Cookie was comparable to Jim Brown. Had it not been for his attitude, he would've been mentioned as one of the greats. Can't forget about T.O. either. Guy still runs a sub 4.5 40 at 40 years of age Cookie Gilcrest was absolutely the AFL equivalent to Jim Brown He is the biggest snuff in the NFL Hall of Fame literally could play all 11 positions in 1963… Built Like a defensive end , Ran With the power of a full back and speed of a tailback Him and Jim Brown were the two best players in the world 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoMAn Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 Paul McGuire. Linebacker and punter, and at 84 he’s still kicking. 😜 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 Talented? Bruce, Allen, and OBVIOUSLY Edmunds, the guy isn’t even old enough to drink yet and has already had a HOF career per TBD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted September 5, 2022 Author Share Posted September 5, 2022 Five pages, and nobody made a joke about Travis Henry being talented at positive paternity tests!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forlorn hope Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 Kelly or Allen. If you're being honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomark Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 18 hours ago, mannc said: None of the people mentioned in the second paragraph are even close to OJ…he is the only Buffalo Bill who, for at least a couple seasons, was the best player in the entire NFL. I watched OJ as a kid. He was a great athlete and dominated for 2-3 years. He rarely caught the ball, never blocked like Thurman and had a much superior line and FB. He also played in an era where LBs,DEs, and Safetys were more bulky than fast. He rarely ran anyone over. In a later era I don’t know how he would have fared. Unlike Bruce he was not in the best 5 at his position all-time. So that is why he isn’t in the conversation with Bruce. He may not be top 7/8 even though he was given the ball on every play, something most athletes dream of. He doesn’t come close to guys like Sanders or Smith. I listed the other random just showing guys that are natural superior athletes since that was the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieldGeneral Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, Forlorn hope said: Kelly or Allen. If you're being honest Are you answering most impactful or most talented? If it’s most “talented,” what, PHYSICALLY, does Kelly do better than Allen? If the answer is, nothing (which it might be) this isn’t much of a debate. Kelly’s talent isn’t in the same stratosphere as Allen’s. Edited September 5, 2022 by Kirby Jackson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills2022 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 (edited) Seems pretty obvious to me if we are just talking pure talent. They are both genetic freaks. Defensive. Bruce Smith. Offensive. Josh Allen Edited September 5, 2022 by Bills2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 (edited) 22 hours ago, Dopey said: If he was available in today’s game, I’d go with Elway. Dude had wheels and a cannon for an arm. IMO, he had a stronger arm than Josh. Steve Young comes to mind too. meh. Elway was good but not the best. Marino was a gunslinger and thought to be the best at the time. Kelly was like JA coming out. Not many in the media respected like those 2. Josh has the makings of being a 🏈 GOD. the GOD of GODS. Did I emulate Tranny well enough? 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: Are you answering most impactful or most talented? If it’s most “talented,” what, PHYSICALLY, does Kelly do better than Allen? If the answer is, nothing (which it might be) this isn’t much of a debate. Kelly’s talent isn’t in the same stratosphere as Allen’s. Kelly’s so tough, he broke a guys leg 🦵 on the field Edited September 5, 2022 by SlimShady'sSpaceForce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 Elway DID NOT have a stronger arm than Josh has now. Joe Namath has a claim to having one of the strongest arms on game day all time also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 OJ Simpson - One of the best ever. After his football career he successfully took a stab at other things too, like acting. Bruce Smith - QB's of his generation still feel the pain from where Bruce hit them. Jim Kelly - Josh needs to win the big game to move ahead of a QB that won 4 consecutive AFC Championships Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhgold Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 (edited) I repeat, OJ Simpson. He had a strong case for being the best running back in college football history (pre Barry Sanders) He ran on a world record 440 yard relay team. He won the TV show The Superstars in its third year when it could attract top athletes. He had a five year stretch when he was not only the top running back in the NFL, he was arguably considered the best player in the league. He wasn't just otherworldly in the 2000 yard rushing year (reminder: in 14 games!); two years later, he averaged over a combined 160 yards per game rushing and receiving and set a league record for touchdowns in a season. If you'd watched him, I doubt you'd argue. While I acknowledge Barry Sanders' greatness, I don't feel he was better than OJ. Paul Zimmerman, the late, great Sports Illustrated writer, who was sort of a one-man Pro Football Focus decades before PFF came into existence, in the edition of his book The Thinking Man's Guide to Pro Football which I read in the early 90s, listed OJ and Marion Motely as the second best running backs in NFL history, behind Jim Brown. Edited September 5, 2022 by dhgold 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 45 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said: meh. Elway was good but not the best. Marino was a gunslinger and thought to be the best at the time. Kelly was like JA coming out. Not many in the media respected like those 2. Josh has the makings of being a 🏈 GOD. the GOD of GODS. Did I emulate Tranny well enough? Kelly’s so tough, he broke a guys leg 🦵 on the field Kelly was incredibly tough. Is he tougher than Allen? Kelly had a big arm. Allen might have the biggest arm ever. There is literally nothing that Kelly could do that Allen can’t. There are lots of things that Allen can do that Kelly couldn’t. Talent-wise it isn’t a conversation. I wouldn’t have Kelly in the top 10 most talented Bills ever. He might not be in the top 20. 25 minutes ago, frostbitmic said: OJ Simpson - One of the best ever. After his football career he successfully took a stab at other things too, like acting. Bruce Smith - QB's of his generation still feel the pain from where Bruce hit them. Jim Kelly - Josh needs to win the big game to move ahead of a QB that won 4 consecutive AFC Championships Again, talent and accomplishment aren’t interchangeable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 8 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Kelly was incredibly tough. Is he tougher than Allen? Kelly had a big arm. Allen might have the biggest arm ever. There is literally nothing that Kelly could do that Allen can’t. There are lots of things that Allen can do that Kelly couldn’t. Talent-wise it isn’t a conversation. I wouldn’t have Kelly in the top 10 most talented Bills ever. He might not be in the top 20. Again, talent and accomplishment aren’t interchangeable. I know. I was trying to be funny 😁 IMO JA is >>> JK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomur67 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 In my humble opinion, I believe if polled, OJ in his prime, would have been considered the best RB in the whole NFL. Although great, Bruce, Thurman, and a few others mentioned would probably not have that ranking in the entire league. Today, Josh has established himself as the most talented QB in the whole NFL. So, on that basis, I'd say Josh and OJ would have to be the most talented Bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 (edited) 23 hours ago, Dopey said: He is a talented dude. No reflection on his playing abilities or team character, but he certainly can rile the readers here. 😁 Edited September 5, 2022 by Ridgewaycynic2013 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 44 minutes ago, frostbitmic said: After his football career he successfully took a stab at other things too, like acting. Well played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 On D-Sam Cowart would be somewhere on my list of top 10 athletes. He was tremendous before the ankle and the achilles. Agree with the Kyle Williams mention as well. On O- Doug Flutie may be in a top 10. Size was a limiting factor but speed, elusiveness, accuracy and arm talent all were good. The guy just needed a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 5 hours ago, Locomark said: I watched OJ as a kid. He was a great athlete and dominated for 2-3 years. He rarely caught the ball, never blocked like Thurman and had a much superior line and FB. He also played in an era where LBs,DEs, and Safetys were more bulky than fast. He rarely ran anyone over. In a later era I don’t know how he would have fared. Unlike Bruce he was not in the best 5 at his position all-time. So that is why he isn’t in the conversation with Bruce. He may not be top 7/8 even though he was given the ball on every play, something most athletes dream of. He doesn’t come close to guys like Sanders or Smith. I listed the other random just showing guys that are natural superior athletes since that was the question. Not sure we were watching the same OJ as kids. The OJ I saw would be great in any era. His 2,000 yard season (14 games): 6.0 yards per carry. The Bills had a very good O line, but it wasn't Dolphins perfect season good. And we had Joe Ferguson at QB, who was ... barely adequate. How the game has changed: Fergy started all 14 games and threw for a grand total of 939 yards. Less than half what OJ ran for. He was a world class sprinter and could break one at any time - the acceleration when he saw daylight is still the best I've ever seen. Top 5 all-time? No doubter. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 OJ in his prime was unstoppable. Unfortunate that his career was shortened by injury, and even more unfortunate that he became a murderer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 (edited) Kind of a strangely phrased question: "most talented player." Best athlete? Well, I suppose that would be a combination of football-relevant skills: strength, speed, agility, arm strength/accuracy, etc. Kind of what we call a "5 tool player" in baseball (hit for average, hit for power, run, field, throw). So that means QB only, or a guy (Marlin Briscoe) who could play QB and other positions too. So that would be: Josh Allen. All by himself. Followed (about a mile lower?) by ... Briscoe? (too small) JP Losman? (too JP Losman) Kemp? Kelly? I don't even know. You see what I mean. EDIT: I just remembered Logan Thomas. So there's your #2. James Harris was rumored to have some running ability (he was never allowed to use it) so maybe he's third. Edited September 5, 2022 by The Frankish Reich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 I don't feel qualified to answer because I did not see Butch Byrd, Marlin Briscoe, and Cookie Gilchrist. The OP named some of the players I would have picked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Marvin said: I don't feel qualified to answer because I did not see Butch Byrd, Marlin Briscoe, and Cookie Gilchrist. The OP named some of the players I would have picked. I played golf with Butch Byrd in the Bills alumni golf tournament in July (humble brag). He’s a SUPER nice guy. His perspective on certain people was interesting (but not surprising). He left us with his number to connect before the game in LA this week. He will be out there with family. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 (edited) On 9/4/2022 at 4:28 AM, Locomark said: Right now no one touches Bruce Smith because he was the best to ever do what he did. No other Bills player can say that. Josh can prove me wrong in another decade. you can say people like OJ, Thurman, Eric Moulds, Antoine Winfield, Micah Hyde, Jerry Butler, Cornelius Bennett, or even Doug Flutie had huge natural talents but to me that talent still needs to produce amazing jaw dropping results to be ranked the best. LOL...if you think OJ didn't produce "amazing jaw dropping results" you must be "blinder than a bat". Edited September 5, 2022 by Beast 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 7 hours ago, Locomark said: I watched OJ as a kid. He was a great athlete and dominated for 2-3 years. He rarely caught the ball, never blocked like Thurman and had a much superior line and FB. He also played in an era where LBs,DEs, and Safetys were more bulky than fast. He rarely ran anyone over. In a later era I don’t know how he would have fared. Unlike Bruce he was not in the best 5 at his position all-time. So that is why he isn’t in the conversation with Bruce. He may not be top 7/8 even though he was given the ball on every play, something most athletes dream of. He doesn’t come close to guys like Sanders or Smith. I listed the other random just showing guys that are natural superior athletes since that was the question. OJ not close to Emmitt Smith in talent? Oh wow, that’s crazy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, tomur67 said: In my humble opinion, I believe if polled, OJ in his prime, would have been considered the best RB in the whole NFL. Although great, Bruce, Thurman, and a few others mentioned would probably not have that ranking in the entire league. Today, Josh has established himself as the most talented QB in the whole NFL. So, on that basis, I'd say Josh and OJ would have to be the most talented Bills. OJ in his prime was unquestionably the best player in the NFL, not just the best RB, something you could not say about any other Bill in franchise history, although I expect Josh Allen will change that shortly. Edited September 5, 2022 by mannc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 On 9/4/2022 at 4:28 AM, Locomark said: …you can say people like OJ, Thurman, Eric Moulds, Antoine Winfield, Micah Hyde, Jerry Butler, Cornelius Bennett, or even Doug Flutie had huge natural talents but to me that talent still needs to produce amazing jaw dropping results to be ranked the best. It is hilarious that you have OJ in the same sentence as these guys. Except for Thurman are any of them on the Bills WoF let alone the pro football HoF? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said: Kind of a strangely phrased question: "most talented player." Best athlete? Well, I suppose that would be a combination of football-relevant skills: strength, speed, agility, arm strength/accuracy, etc. Kind of what we call a "5 tool player" in baseball (hit for average, hit for power, run, field, throw). So in my opinion that means QB only, or a guy (Marlin Briscoe) who could play QB and other positions too. So that would be: Josh Allen. All by himself. Followed (about a mile lower?) by ... Briscoe? (too small) JP Losman? (too JP Losman) Kemp? Kelly? I don't even know. You see what I mean. EDIT: I just remembered Logan Thomas. So there's your #2. James Harris was rumored to have some running ability (he was never allowed to use it) so maybe he's third. Hope you don’t mind me adding the bold text I added Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 Not saying he is even in the top 10, but I always thought Brian Moorman was extremely athletic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierra Foothills Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 8 hours ago, Locomark said: I watched OJ as a kid. He was a great athlete and dominated for 2-3 years. He rarely caught the ball, never blocked like Thurman and had a much superior line and FB. He also played in an era where LBs,DEs, and Safetys were more bulky than fast. He rarely ran anyone over. In a later era I don’t know how he would have fared. Unlike Bruce he was not in the best 5 at his position all-time. So that is why he isn’t in the conversation with Bruce. He may not be top 7/8 even though he was given the ball on every play, something most athletes dream of. He doesn’t come close to guys like Sanders or Smith. I listed the other random just showing guys that are natural superior athletes since that was the question. As a kid? Like 2 years old? Sorry to be rude but based on your post I find it hard to believe you ever saw OJ play. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 28 minutes ago, Dopey said: Hope you don’t mind me adding the bold text I added Not at all. That just shows it was a poorly thought-out question. Maybe we want to ask, "The most talented skill set FOR HIS POSITION in Bills history." Otherwise I'm going with the Punt God. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Sierra Foothills said: As a kid? Like 2 years old? Sorry to be rude but based on your post I find it hard to believe you ever saw OJ play. First NFL game I ever saw in person was at the old Rockpile, back in about '71. About 9 years old. Yes, that wasAnd I have really vivid memories of OJ in his glory years. I never saw Jim Brown or Gale Sayers (at least not in my football fan memories), but based on clips I'd say they may be #1 and #1A and #1B as far as the ability to accelerate and break any run for a TD. Barry Sanders could break any run too, but it was really a different running style. Eric Dickerson is usually forgotten in these conversations, but he had that turbo boost thing too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierra Foothills Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 13 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: First NFL game I ever saw in person was at the old Rockpile, back in about '71. About 9 years old. Yes, that wasAnd I have really vivid memories of OJ in his glory years. I never saw Jim Brown or Gale Sayers (at least not in my football fan memories), but based on clips I'd say they may be #1 and #1A and #1B as far as the ability to accelerate and break any run for a TD. Barry Sanders could break any run too, but it was really a different running style. Eric Dickerson is usually forgotten in these conversations, but he had that turbo boost thing too. Yeah, Barry Sanders was definitely gifted in a small, sports car sort of way. Like you said, OJ had the turbo boost, like the Millenium Falcon going into hyperspace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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