Logic Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 At the following link, you can find several different links to listen to the podcast, from Spotify to Apple, etc. https://www.theringer.com/2022/8/9/23298232/patrick-mahomes-josh-allen-new-tom-brady-peyton-manning-nfl-football Is Mahomes-Allen the New Brady-Manning? Lindsay Jones and Kevin Clark examine Kansas City’s revamped receiving corps and how they’ll affect Patrick Mahomes’s QB play before discussing Buffalo’s new OC, Ken Dorsey, and speculating whether he’ll be able to elevate Josh Allen’s game to the next level this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 The past is the past, I don't like all the comparison stuff. The Mahomes-Allen talk will be over this year. Next year it will be Allen-Mahomes. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Logic said: At the following link, you can find several different links to listen to the podcast, from Spotify to Apple, etc. https://www.theringer.com/2022/8/9/23298232/patrick-mahomes-josh-allen-new-tom-brady-peyton-manning-nfl-football Is Mahomes-Allen the New Brady-Manning? Lindsay Jones and Kevin Clark examine Kansas City’s revamped receiving corps and how they’ll affect Patrick Mahomes’s QB play before discussing Buffalo’s new OC, Ken Dorsey, and speculating whether he’ll be able to elevate Josh Allen’s game to the next level this season. Elevate Josh's game to the next level? What is he going to transform into Zeus throwing thunderbolts? Not sure how you elevate from where he was at the end of last season. Edited August 9, 2022 by Warcodered 5 1 4 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted August 9, 2022 Author Share Posted August 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, Warcodered said: Elevate Josh's game to the next level? What is he going to transform into Zeus throwing thunderbolts? Not sure how you elevate from where he was at the end of last season. Scarily enough, I DON'T think Josh is done growing and improving. I DO think his best football is still ahead of him. I know that's an outlandish notion, but I believe it. I haven't seen any signs that he has hit his ceiling yet. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watkins101 Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, Warcodered said: Elevate Josh's game to the next level? What is he going to transform into Zeus throwing thunderbolts? Not sure how you elevate from where he was at the end of last season. I don’t know if you can really elevate from where he was at the end of last season (especially the playoffs), but if he can be more consistently at that level, he would be improved for sure. He had a couple games last year that were subpar for sure (Jax, Atlanta’s 3 picks in a row(though he was our offense that game), windy pats game) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 I don't think so. You'd need one down to Earth cool guy (Manning) and one super-douchey cheating tool (Brady), but both Allen and Mahomes seem like cool guys. 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted August 9, 2022 Author Share Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: The past is the past, I don't like all the comparison stuff. The Mahomes-Allen talk will be over this year. Next year it will be Allen-Mahomes. I mean... If the discussion is "two future Hall of Fame quarterbacks going at it for a decade+, constantly playing for AFC titles, and spurring debates of who really is the best", I don't really care whether Josh's name is listed first or second. The mere fact that Allen is now being mentioned as the Brady or Manning of this generation is pretty astonishing. What a time to be a Bills fan. Edited August 9, 2022 by Logic 1 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 Can allen have Peytons career but both mannings championships? I would be more than fine with that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 My guess is no. During the Brady-Manning era, there were not that many elite QBs. The AFC is awash in very good-great QBs. Any combo of the following could emerge ... Allen Mahomes Watson Herbert Jackson Carr Burrows .. as they are all young, just getting going now and QBs can play into their 40s. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 Just now, wjag said: My guess is no. During the Brady-Manning era, there were not that many elite QBs. The AFC is awash in very good-great QBs. Any combo of the following could emerge ... Allen Mahomes Watson Herbert Jackson Carr Burrows .. as they are all young, just getting going now and QBs can play into their 40s. ?????? Brady Manning Rivers Big Ben Brees Rodgers Ryan 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 10 minutes ago, FireChans said: ?????? Brady Manning Rivers Big Ben Brees Rodgers Ryan Favre Eli Manning 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 Just now, Gugny said: Favre Eli Manning Flacco depending on the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 I see it as the young three + 1 - Allen, Mahomes, Herbert and Rodgers. Those four are the best four in the game right now. Burrow, Jackson, Prescott, Russell Wilson and maybe Stafford are the next tier. Brady is in a category all to himself. On any given Sunday he can still be the GOAT but he is not consistently as good as he once was. Then you have enigmas like Watson and Murray, followed by a host of unproven talent in Tua, Hurts, Lance, Fields, Z. Wilson, and Lawrence. Probably forgetting to mention a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 7 minutes ago, FireChans said: ?????? Brady Manning Rivers Big Ben Brees Rodgers Ryan Understand but the hidden criteria is you both have to win your division in your conference to play each other a lot to form the rivalry. I thought about Brady-Big Ben, but it never rose to the level that Brady-Manning did. Brady-Ben certainly had big games, but it still was second tier to Brady-Manning. Brees and Rodgers never did either, for whatever reason. Ryan doesn't belong on the list as Atlanta largely underperformed for his talent level. Rivers-Manning and Rivers-Brady never rose to that level either. Cross conference match ups don't happen enough to generate true rivalries. I googled this answer: "Despite playing a combined 37 seasons of pro football, including a combined 31 postseason appearances, Rodgers and Brady have faced each other only three times as starting quarterbacks." Pretty amazing. and then this: "Manning and Brady faced off 17 times in this great rivalry that dates back to 2001. The last meeting occurred on Jan. 24, 2016 in the AFC Championship Game which resulted in a 20-18 win for Manning and the Broncos en route to a Super Bowl 50 victory." and then this "Aaron Rodgers of the Green Bay Packers and Drew Brees of the New Orleans Saints have played against each other as starters three times. The Packers won two of those three games, with both of those contests being played at Lambeau Field." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, wjag said: Understand but the hidden criteria is you both have to win your division in your conference to play each other a lot to form the rivalry. I thought about Brady-Big Ben, but it never rose to the level that Brady-Manning did. Brady-Ben certainly had big games, but it still was second tier to Brady-Manning. Brees and Rodgers never did either, for whatever reason. Ryan doesn't belong on the list as Atlanta largely underperformed for his talent level. Rivers-Manning and Rivers-Brady never rose to that level either. Cross conference match ups don't happen enough to generate true rivalries. I googled this answer: "Despite playing a combined 37 seasons of pro football, including a combined 31 postseason appearances, Rodgers and Brady have faced each other only three times as starting quarterbacks." Pretty amazing. and then this: "Manning and Brady faced off 17 times in this great rivalry that dates back to 2001. The last meeting occurred on Jan. 24, 2016 in the AFC Championship Game which resulted in a 20-18 win for Manning and the Broncos en route to a Super Bowl 50 victory." and then this "Aaron Rodgers of the Green Bay Packers and Drew Brees of the New Orleans Saints have played against each other as starters three times. The Packers won two of those three games, with both of those contests being played at Lambeau Field." I took more exception with: "During the Brady-Manning era, there were not that many elite QBs." Which is just not true. There were a ton. Now yes, Brees and Brady weren't rivals really because they didn't play each other a lot. Brady and Manning didn't become rivals just because they played against each other a lot, but because there was MASSIVE debate over which one of them was the best QB in the NFL. People don't remember because his game evolved a TON over his career, but early in Brady's career he wasn't putting up the Star Wars numbers that Peyton was. Peyton had the numbers, Brady had the hardware. But constantly from like 2003 - 2012 the debate was "who is the best QB in the NFL, Peyton or Brady." Guys like Big Ben/Rivers etc etc never really entered that conversation. Brees peeked in a couple seasons. Similarly, going forward, I could EASILY see Mahomes/Allen debated as the best QB in the NFL for at least the next 7 years. Derek Carr ain't likely gonna end up in that conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 53 minutes ago, Watkins101 said: I don’t know if you can really elevate from where he was at the end of last season (especially the playoffs), but if he can be more consistently at that level, he would be improved for sure. He had a couple games last year that were subpar for sure (Jax, Atlanta’s 3 picks in a row(though he was our offense that game), windy pats game) I agree 100%. At the end of last yea we possible the best QB play ever, expecting better paly is unrealistic but consistency ifs the issue .Atlanta I think was a fluke, i think Beasley ran a wrong route and the other two ints were deflections. The Jax game was truly disappointing, the entire team look out of it. How we go beat by a rookie QB and an Urban Meyer coached team is hard to fathom. The windy Pats game i blame on mcd and Dabol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieEm Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Logic said: Scarily enough, I DON'T think Josh is done growing and improving. I DO think his best football is still ahead of him. I know that's an outlandish notion, but I believe it. I haven't seen any signs that he has hit his ceiling yet. I certainly agree with you. He is indeed a unicorn amongst unicorns even. There's a reason that Patrick Mahomes sought out Allen immediately after that game before celebrating. Talent recognizes talent and they know amongst themselves who may have the better game overall. Think it really falls on supporting cast surrounding them any given game who will be the victor. They both elevate players around them so the team with the most elevatees wins. Loss of Tyreek Hill may be a big difference in the games between Allen - Mahomes. Certain I would hate to face KC without Diggs or a number of other weapons the Bills deploy. Even so I still worry less with Josh as he uses so many of his weapons. He has his favorite goto's but they are fluid in he easily goes to another option when they take his fave away. Edited August 9, 2022 by AuntieEm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybrew1 Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 Unfortunately, the Bills and their fans aren’t lucky enough to live in a two QB world…. Herbert and Burrow are simply too good to ignore…are they as good? No, but they are true franchise QBs on good teams. I will say I think the Bills with Josh Allen are going to beat the rams because Josh is better than Stafford and because most fans are completely underestimating how much the rams lost this offseason. Yes, our secondary won’t be ready on opening day but either will their’s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 18 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said: I agree 100%. At the end of last yea we possible the best QB play ever, expecting better paly is unrealistic but consistency ifs the issue .Atlanta I think was a fluke, i think Beasley ran a wrong route and the other two ints were deflections. The Jax game was truly disappointing, the entire team look out of it. How we go beat by a rookie QB and an Urban Meyer coached team is hard to fathom. The windy Pats game i blame on mcd and Dabol. Teams that gave the Bills fits last year all had a good to great pass rush. Including Jacksonville where Allen v Allen went to Allen. Let's hope Kromer improves both the run blocking and pass blocking. I don't care how good you are, if your OLINE is a sieve, it ain't happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, wjag said: Teams that gave the Bills fits last year all had a good to great pass rush. Including Jacksonville where Allen v Allen went to Allen. Let's hope Kromer improves both the run blocking and pass blocking. I don't care how good you are, if your OLINE is a sieve, it ain't happening. Their Josh Allen had a career day, who was primarily blocking him or trying to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted August 9, 2022 Author Share Posted August 9, 2022 37 minutes ago, billybrew1 said: Unfortunately, the Bills and their fans aren’t lucky enough to live in a two QB world…. Herbert and Burrow are simply too good to ignore…are they as good? No, but they are true franchise QBs on good teams. I will say I think the Bills with Josh Allen are going to beat the rams because Josh is better than Stafford and because most fans are completely underestimating how much the rams lost this offseason. Yes, our secondary won’t be ready on opening day but either will their’s. There were other high quality quarterbacks during the era of Brady-Manning, too. Roethlisberger and Rivers are both future Hall of Famers, and both were active in the same AFC as Brady and Manning. That didn't stop the dominant Brady-Manning from being the dominant and defining QB battle of the decade, though. Maybe it's more like the 80s and 90s, where you had Marino, Kelly, Elway, and Moon all active in the AFC. The 2022 AFC is maybe as stacked at quarterback as it has EVER been in league history. Still, I think Mahomes and Allen are the cream of the crop. I CAN see a world where Herbert usurps Mahomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMio Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 Idk Burrow reminds me a lot of more of Brady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieEm Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 49 minutes ago, wjag said: Teams that gave the Bills fits last year all had a good to great pass rush. Including Jacksonville where Allen v Allen went to Allen. Let's hope Kromer improves both the run blocking and pass blocking. I don't care how good you are, if your OLINE is a sieve, it ain't happening. So you are saying if Allen v Allen went to Josh Allen Rd 1 pick 7 instead of Allen v Allen wnt to Josh Allen Rd1 Pick 7 ..... gotcha. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said: Their Josh Allen had a career day, who was primarily blocking him or trying to. On that day, pretty sure it was cody ford. EDIT: Just checked, was Ford at RG and Daryl Williams at RT. Edited August 9, 2022 by The Wiz 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbRiddick Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 3 hours ago, Logic said: Scarily enough, I DON'T think Josh is done growing and improving. I DO think his best football is still ahead of him. I know that's an outlandish notion, but I believe it. I haven't seen any signs that he has hit his ceiling yet. In terms of his spectacular plays I can't see him going even higher but in terms of becoming smarter with the football, seeing more things pre snap etc then yeah I agree. Recency effect is huge in sports and if he doesn't play like he did in the playoffs we'll hear the usual stuff from the media about regression or problems without Daboll. Obviously it's impossible for him to play like that for a whole season but imagine if he hit that sort of level for 70 percent of his games, just imagine what his stats would be like. MVP for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Yea… both were atrocious… as was Dion Dawkins. Which is really interesting because looking at the stats buffalo was better overall on offense than theirs. They just couldn't put a drive together to save their lives. Also 12 penalties for 118 yards didn't help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 10 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: They moved the ball throughout the game, but drives would stall due to penalties and massive sacks…. It was one of a few games last season where Allen(Josh that is)got his ass kicked. Yep. And Josh Allen, the other guy, had the rare triple: a sack, fumble recovery and interception. And the final insult as I recall was Gabe dropping a pass that would have put them in Bass-o-matic range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 Some have brought up the influx of QB talent, and it's a very valid point (ticks me off that Manning was really Brady's only competition for many of those 20 years or so). But I still see Allen & Mahomes as 1A and 1B, unless proven otherwise. I think they're a clear tier above Herbert, Burrow & the rest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToGoGo Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 I believe there is a higher tier to Allen. It's not so much about his actual play (which could improve and be more consistent), but mostly due to a better offensive system. Many people believe Daboll was a great OC, and he definitely did his job, but I believe that Allen eventually grew out of Daboll's offense. It's about molding the next offense into Allen's passing strengths and less about his running (which should instead be used at the right time, rather than all the time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 4 hours ago, MafiaMio said: Idk Burrow reminds me a lot of more of Brady In the sense he is an annoying douche yes. Talent wise, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 7 hours ago, ColoradoBills said: The past is the past, I don't like all the comparison stuff. The Mahomes-Allen talk will be over this year. Next year it will be Allen-Mahomes. The AFC is wide open.... Guys named. Burrow, Jackson, Herbert will all disagree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 (edited) The biggest game that Manning and Brady could face off in was the afc title game. Highest stakes, biggest moment possible for that rivalry. Manning, the guy who "couldn't winnthe big game" was 3-1 in those meetings, or 75% win percentage. There are no yeah buts. Edited August 10, 2022 by TheFunPolice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 16 hours ago, The Wiz said: On that day, pretty sure it was cody ford. EDIT: Just checked, was Ford at RG and Daryl Williams at RT. Cody Ford is the closest thing this regime has to a bust and I recall how thrilled they were to get him early in the draft. So much for Ford playing tackle, he isnt even first on the depth chart at guard, He is behind Ryan Bates who barely made the team last year, This will be Ford's last year with the Bills. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P Riv Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 "Is Mahomes-Allen the new Brady-Manning?" I'd say yeah, it is because the NFL wants that for publicity, and they'll push that narrative for everything they can get out of it. That, and it does appear to be THE rivalry at the top right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uninja Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 16 hours ago, wjag said: Yep. And Josh Allen, the other guy, had the rare triple: a sack, fumble recovery and interception. And the final insult as I recall was Gabe dropping a pass that would have put them in Bass-o-matic range. I think we've determined that the only thing that can truly stop Josh Allen is...Josh Allen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 I think you guys are overlooking Mac&Cheese-Tua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 Bottom line is every era has multiple top flight QBs. Brady/Manning was always hyped by the media during that timeframe even though Ben, Rodgers, Brees, and Rivers we’re all excellent. The difference was the team around them and coaching and GM’s. Now Allen/Mahomes have at their heels Herbert, Burrow, and Lamar. Now there are older guys still viable, but these fab 5 are going to Duke it out for a long time. The key is who has the better team and the coaching. Wilson will still be around for awhile so I wouldn’t count him out. I have no idea if the new Denver coach, Hackett can pull them together as they have talent on this team, and the $ will be flowing with the Walton family. Basically one of the richest families in the world so cash over cap is a non issue. They’ll keep bringing in talent and the Walmart Wltons will be writing the checks. To them this is a toy as Walmart is everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralonzo Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 17 hours ago, The Wiz said: Which is really interesting because looking at the stats buffalo was better overall on offense than theirs. They just couldn't put a drive together to save their lives. Also 12 penalties for 118 yards didn't help. As with every Bills loss in 2021 save the Colts game, the Bills did only what they needed to do to lose the game, no more and no less. We used to call this being Billsy, and it surprised me as usually that reflects most on coaching and McD was the antithesis of Billsy in his first-year run to the playoffs with Tie Rod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 The only thing Mahomes has that Allen doesn’t is Andy Reid. To me no other QBs skill set compares favourably with Allen’s overall. PMs year will be significantly impacted by Reid’s success (or lack thereof) in scheming around the absence of Hill and Kelsey being a year older. The Chief’s floor is still a good and very productive offence but I won’t be surprised if they take a step back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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