LeGOATski Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 2 hours ago, unbillievable said: How did the Bills go from having nothing but mediocre Quarterbacks for 20 years to having the best on the Planet... Sean McDermott and Brandon BeaneĀ 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 4 hours ago, SydneyBillsFan said: ...and most importantly - has unbelievable leadership qualities and character, work and team first ethics and is a family man of the highest order. Ā To think that we got him with picks 12, 22 and 56. Heck, the NFL could legitimately report the Bills to the IRS for grand theft HOF-er! Ā It was even better than that.Ā It was picks 21, 53, 56, the equivalent of a mid-7th and Cordy Glenn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 9 hours ago, Richard Noggin said: Ā All of the ELITE QBs you've mentioned here are smaller than Allen,Ā Havenāt you heardĀ Ā Size doesnāt matterĀ Ā šĀ 1 hour ago, eball said: Either Palmer or Chris Simms have said this before. Ā Itās not a ānewā opinion. Ā Josh is a unicorn. Ā If heād have blossomed a little bit sooner as a teen heād have played three years at Alabama or Ohio State and have been the no-doubt 1st pick in the draft. Ā From a sheer physical standpoint you canāt name a QB with more impressive all-around ātools.ā Ā The key was always when, not if, he would get enough reps and coaching to become a true quarterback, because his drive and desire are also unmatched. Ā Josh Allen absolutely strikes fear into the minds of DCs across the league. Ā This year he may truly be unstoppable. Ā 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 10 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said: those who canāt ā¦ ā¦ Coach.Ā ā¦ā¦.you rang? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 11 hours ago, julian said: I donāt believe this is even close, Allen can physically do more on the field than any other QB in history. Ā Ā He checks boxes no other QB can. So, on top of everything else he's Marcia's gynecologist?Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoudyBills Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 10 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said: Has this board ever heard of John Elway? Same size, arm strength, and athletic ability.Ā Played in an era where it was much harder to be a passer. Ā Or Brett Favre? He wasn't as fast running but obviously had the toughness and the arm strength.Ā Ā Steve Young was an amazing passer and runner though his running was not as violent as JA's.Ā Ā Montana was also sneaky mobile early on. Obviously not the arm strength of JA though. Ā Ā Ā So 1 comp and 3 throw ins that you admit are lacking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said: He threw for 66 yards in the NFL, more than anyone on this board combined.Ā Ā What's your point? There is at least one member of this board that threw for more than that. Not sure if he's still here tho.Ā Edited July 8, 2022 by Not at the table Karlos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 10 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said: Has this board ever heard of John Elway? Same size, arm strength, and athletic ability.Ā Played in an era where it was much harder to be a passer. Ā Or Brett Favre? He wasn't as fast running but obviously had the toughness and the arm strength.Ā Ā Steve Young was an amazing passer and runner though his running was not as violent as JA's.Ā Ā Montana was also sneaky mobile early on. Obviously not the arm strength of JA though. Ā Ā Ā Ā Could Brett Farve or John Elway do any of these? Ā Ā 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Ā Could Brett Farve or John Elway do any of these? Ā Ā Ā That last play is what I'm talking about when I say he reminds me of Jim Brown as a runner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearNorth Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 11 hours ago, Doc said: Ā However if I were to compare him to someone, Jim Brown keeps coming to my mind. Jim was thicker and faster tho, 6-2, 232. according to Belichick, ran a 4.5 40 in pads from a 3 point start, He was bigger and faster than most LB's of that era.Ā Also played with a quiet rage on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 27 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Ā Could Brett Farve or John Elway do any of these? Ā Ā When did we start allowing porn here?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMuffin Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 I like the job that Palmer is doing with Josh and I agree with a lot of the superlatives thrown Joshās way but this is a little too much. Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 11 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said: Who is Jordan Palmer ? Ā Did he ever play QB in the NFL ? Who is Jordan Palmer?!?! Brother of Carson?!?! š¤¦āāļø Nephew of Jim? š¤·āāļø Grandson of Arnold? š¤ Close acquaintance of Rosie? š¤ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 11 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said: those who canāt ā¦ ā¦ Coach.Ā I always think itās funny when a failed player has an opinion and people act like he doesnāt know what heās talking about. Almost every successful coach was a failed player or didnāt even play at a high level. Ā Ā 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Darragh Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 11 hours ago, Big Turk said: Russell couldn't move like Allen could. I guess it's very difficult to communicate irony or sarcasm in a postĀ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Ladies and gentlemen, the most talented QB ever. Ā Ā 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 40 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said: When did we start allowing porn here?? Ā 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Udubalum07 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 I would agree with Jordan. Ā I think the closest comparison right now would be Herbert, but he doesn't run as well as Josh. Their arm strength are a close comparison, but again doesn't quite drive the ball as well as Josh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 1 hour ago, BearNorth said: Jim was thicker and faster tho, 6-2, 232. according to Belichick, ran a 4.5 40 in pads from a 3 point start, He was bigger and faster than most LB's of that era.Ā Also played with a quiet rage on the field. Ā I don't disagree with the thicker since Josh is 3" taller and "just" 15# (or so) heavier, but as far as faster goes, Josh had that run as a rookie where he was among the top-10 fastest ball carriers for the week, competing with DBs and RBs.Ā But it's the quiet rage I was mostly talking about, with the way he tries to stiff arm guys to the ground or power through them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrahammer Posted July 8, 2022 Author Share Posted July 8, 2022 Haven't seen any Marshawn run comparisons...š Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 11 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said: Has this board ever heard of John Elway? Same size, arm strength, and athletic ability.Ā Played in an era where it was much harder to be a passer. Ā Or Brett Favre? He wasn't as fast running but obviously had the toughness and the arm strength.Ā Ā Steve Young was an amazing passer and runner though his running was not as violent as JA's.Ā Ā Montana was also sneaky mobile early on. Obviously not the arm strength of JA though. Ā Ā Ā Ā Elway was a few inches shorter and about 20-25 lbs lighter.Ā Have you ever seen Elway stiff arm a defensive lineman to the ground and then truck a LB on the same play? 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lane Meyer K12 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 15 hours ago, Logic said: I believe Palmer is correct. Ā In terms of sheer physical talent ā arm strength, size, power, mobility, speed, jumping ability ā I canāt think of anyone thatās ever been clearly superior to Josh Allen. Ā Combine all of that with elite work ethic, competitiveness, and leadership ability, and you have the ingredients for a Hall of Famer. All of this while staying humble, hungry and grounded. We all waited a long time for this one. It was worth the wait.Ā 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 12 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said: Has this board ever heard of John Elway? Same size, arm strength, and athletic ability.Ā Played in an era where it was much harder to be a passer. Ā Or Brett Favre? He wasn't as fast running but obviously had the toughness and the arm strength.Ā Ā Steve Young was an amazing passer and runner though his running was not as violent as JA's.Ā Ā Montana was also sneaky mobile early on. Obviously not the arm strength of JA though. Ā Ā Ā Ā I've heard of them yes.Ā Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisWatson#21 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 He is not wrong.Ā I don't think I've ever seen a combination of arm talent, athletic ability, football IQ and the will to carry his team like Josh does.Ā When you watch his highlight videos you see everything, beautiful throws, lasers on a rope, pocket presence, effective check downs, ability to run, stiff arms, broken tackles of DL's, juke moves on the open field, hurdles and more.Ā He literally is a human highlight film.Ā There isn't a QB most GM's in the league would rather have other than Josh at this moment.Ā To read the story of how Pegula wanted Mahomes in 2017 and Whaley or whoever it was responsible for messing that up then to have landed on Josh is astonishing.Ā I still can't believe to this day he is our QB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Palmer handing out his business card again... Ā By "most ever", Palmer must mean "that I have personally trained". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 This is how I look at it:Ā Ā Is there any other QB where Josh Allen can not do all the things they are capable of doing?Ā Ā Answer:Ā NO Is there any other QB that can do ALL the things that Josh Allen can do?Ā Ā Answer:Ā NO Its really just that simple.Ā If you look at all of todays best QB's, and even all the greatest QB's in history...can any of them do things Josh Allen can't?Ā There really isn't any example of anyone that is capable of things Josh isn't capable of doing himself.Ā And yet, if you look at all the things Josh can do, there is no QB in history capable of doing everything he can do on the field.Ā And honestly, the closest is Patrick Mahomes.Ā But even compared to Mahomes, there are just things Allen can do with his legs and running ability that Pat can't even though Pat is also quite good with his legs himself.Ā Ā Ā So I do really think Palmer is correct here...doesn't mean Josh is, or will be, the greatest to ever play.Ā It takes more than talent and physical gifts to reach those accolades.Ā But talent to talent comparison, I don't think Palmer is wrong.Ā Ā 2 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said: Has this board ever heard of John Elway? Same size, arm strength, and athletic ability.Ā Played in an era where it was much harder to be a passer. Ā Or Brett Favre? He wasn't as fast running but obviously had the toughness and the arm strength.Ā Ā Steve Young was an amazing passer and runner though his running was not as violent as JA's.Ā Ā Montana was also sneaky mobile early on. Obviously not the arm strength of JA though. Ā Ā Ā And none of those guys were as physically talented as Josh. Ā I donāt think any of them are even close. Ā Elway the closestā¦..but heās not that close either. Ā Ā athletes are now much bigger, stronger and faster when compared to the 80s. Ā Thatās part of this conversation. Ā Ā Iād probably go with Randall. Ā Size (not Josh size), speed, arm, athletic ability. Ā Ā Mahomes, Vick, Kyler and Lamar have the speed, arm (not joshsā arm) and athletic ability, but lack the size.Ā Ā Ā Edited July 8, 2022 by NewEra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisWatson#21 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 9 minutes ago, NewEra said: And none of those guys were as physically talented as Josh. Ā I donāt think any of them are even close. Ā Elway the closestā¦..but heās not that close either. Ā Ā athletes are now much bigger, stronger and faster when compared to the 80s. Ā Thatās part of this conversation. Ā Ā Iād probably go with Randall. Ā Size (not Josh size), speed, arm, athletic ability. Ā Ā Vick, Kyler and Lamar have the speed, arm (not joshsā arm) and athletic ability, but lack the size.Ā Ā Ā It's mindboggling that Josh has set records for fastest amount of passing TD's combined with rushing TD's yet there are still people on a Buffalo Bills board that would rather say other QB's were better etc etc .. Some people just never realize when they've wonš 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, ChrisWatson#21 said: It's mindboggling that Josh has set records for fastest amount of passing TD's combined with rushing TD's yet there are still people on a Buffalo Bills board that would rather say other QB's were better etc etc .. Some people just never realize when they've wonš šÆĀ mind boggling to say the least. Ā All of my non bills fans friends agree heās easily the most physically talented theyāve ever watched.Ā 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 18 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: This is how I look at it:Ā Ā Is there any other QB where Josh Allen can not do all the things they are capable of doing?Ā Ā Answer:Ā NO Is there any other QB that can do ALL the things that Josh Allen can do?Ā Ā Answer:Ā NO Its really just that simple.Ā If you look at all of todays best QB's, and even all the greatest QB's in history...can any of them do things Josh Allen can't?Ā There really isn't any example of anyone that is capable of things Josh isn't capable of doing himself.Ā And yet, if you look at all the things Josh can do, there is no QB in history capable of doing everything he can do on the field.Ā And honestly, the closest is Patrick Mahomes.Ā But even compared to Mahomes, there are just things Allen can do with his legs and running ability that Pat can't even though Pat is also quite good with his legs himself.Ā Ā Ā So I do really think Palmer is correct here...doesn't mean Josh is, or will be, the greatest to ever play.Ā It takes more than talent and physical gifts to reach those accolades.Ā But talent to talent comparison, I don't think Palmer is wrong.Ā Ā This is the key right here. Too many people see "most talented to ever play the QB position" and equate it with "greatest to ever play the position". But that's not what Palmer was saying. Palmer was saying Josh is the most TALENTED, the most PHYSICALLY GIFTED ever to play the position. That's not the same as "he is the best" or "he WILL be the best". Case in point: Jeff George, Jay Cutler, and Michael Vick were all more physically gifted than Tom Brady. None of them could hold his jock strap, though. As you say, it takes a lot more to actually reach the perch of "greatest ever" or anything close. Luckily for us Bills fans, Josh seems to have what it takes mentally and in terms of intangibles to have a reasonable shot at bridging the gap between "most talented" and "best", but it will take a lot of wins and some championships to get there. That's what sets Josh apart from the Jeff Georges and Jay Cutlers of the world, though: His mind, his work ethic, his will, his intangibles. If he ever becomes the GOAT, THOSE traits will be as much to thank as his physical gifts. Sometimes I still can't believe that the Bills actually have a guy like Josh at QB. Amazing. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 33 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Palmer handing out his business card again... Ā By "most ever", Palmer must mean "that I have personally trained". Which QBs that he hasnāt trained are more physically talented? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Since1981 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 There are maybe 9 people that originally believed Josh had āitā. They deserve to remind us. Palmer was one of them. I liked Josh near draft because he did seem to be under coached, underdog, under played, nice kidā¦ a calculated risk worth taking for BUF, but did not expect top 5 QB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 38 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: This is how I look at it:Ā Ā Is there any other QB where Josh Allen can not do all the things they are capable of doing?Ā Ā Answer:Ā NO Is there any other QB that can do ALL the things that Josh Allen can do?Ā Ā Answer:Ā NO Its really just that simple.Ā If you look at all of todays best QB's, and even all the greatest QB's in history...can any of them do things Josh Allen can't?Ā There really isn't any example of anyone that is capable of things Josh isn't capable of doing himself.Ā And yet, if you look at all the things Josh can do, there is no QB in history capable of doing everything he can do on the field.Ā And honestly, the closest is Patrick Mahomes.Ā But even compared to Mahomes, there are just things Allen can do with his legs and running ability that Pat can't even though Pat is also quite good with his legs himself.Ā Ā Ā So I do really think Palmer is correct here...doesn't mean Josh is, or will be, the greatest to ever play.Ā It takes more than talent and physical gifts to reach those accolades.Ā But talent to talent comparison, I don't think Palmer is wrong.Ā Ā cant be. Ā You agree with my stance? Ā Ā šĀ Ā Can go from (perceived) least accurate QB to most accurate QB in 4 seasons? Can thread the needle and not be š±?Ā Can be accurate throwing on the run? Can be accurate throwing across his body to the opposite side of the field? on the run Ā Ā Can leap tall defenders in a single bound? Ā 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 49 minutes ago, Logic said: As you say, it takes a lot more to actually reach the perch of "greatest ever" or anything close. Luckily for us Bills fans, Josh seems to have what it takes mentally and in terms of intangibles to have a reasonable shot at bridging the gap between "most talented" and "best", but it will take a lot of wins and some championships to get there. That's what sets Josh apart from the Jeff Georges and Jay Cutlers of the world, though: His mind, his work ethic, his will, his intangibles. If he ever becomes the GOAT, THOSE traits will be as much to thank as his physical gifts. It will also take longevity, so they better stop using him as their alternative to a legitimate backfield. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 32 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said: cant be. Ā You agree with my stance? Ā Ā šĀ Ā Can go from (perceived) least accurate QB to most accurate QB in 4 seasons? Can thread the needle and not be š±?Ā Can be accurate throwing on the run? Can be accurate throwing across his body to the opposite side of the field? on the run Ā Ā Can leap tall defenders in a single bound? Ā Ā Hahaha not the first time we have agreed on something 34 minutes ago, Since1981 said: There are maybe 9 people that originally believed Josh had āitā. They deserve to remind us. Palmer was one of them. I liked Josh near draft because he did seem to be under coached, underdog, under played, nice kidā¦ a calculated risk worth taking for BUF, but did not expect top 5 QB Ā I was one of themĀ Ā Ā 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Steve Young in his prime also was a sensational combination of passer/run threatābut I feel like his running style was more so shifty than watch out here I come to wreck your day, which Josh can deliver as well as the athletic movesāthatās the biggest difference imho.Ā 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: Steve Young in his prime also was a sensational combination of passer/run threatābut I feel like his running style was more so shifty than watch out here I come to wreck your day, which Josh can deliver as well as the athletic movesāthatās the biggest difference imho.Ā Ā Funny, very early on when people kept trying to compare Josh to Cam Newton (which some still foolishly do), I kept pushing back and saying no, thats the wrong comparison. Ā Maybe in the ability to run with strength, but all comparisons stopped there. Ā For me, since Josh's rookie year, the real comparison was always Steve Young. Ā Ā Not sure how old everyone is here, but at 45 (soon to be 46 on Monday) I got to watch Steve Youngs career as I lived in the Central Valley of CA during that time. Ā And he IMHO is an all time great QB and was one of the funnest QB's to watch of his time. Ā He was an elite QB first and foremost, who could kill your defense at a moments notice with his legs, extend plays, and throw with precision on the run. Ā Ā Everything about Josh Allens game reminds me a lot of young in terms of style...but Allen just has an even bigger arm and an even more gifted and powerful runner. Ā But stylistically I think they are similar players. Ā And truth be told, I think Josh Allen has the potential to be a lot better than even Steve Young was. Ā I am not gonna get ahead of myself here, but just looking at his trajectory, talent, unique abilities, and his constant improvement...Josh has the potential to reach top 5 all time discussions by the time his career is over. Ā Doesn't mean he will get there, its gonna take sustained success, consistency, good health, and probably more than one SB title to enter top 5 discussions. Ā But, its not often you can talk about a young player and see a path to where he could be top 5 all time.Ā Ā For example...I can look around the league and see younger or veteran guys who have pro-bowl or even HOF potential...but not many you can look at and say, this guy could finish top 5 all time potentially when his career is over. Ā Few show that type of potential...guys like Mahomes and Allen do though. Ā Edited July 8, 2022 by Alphadawg7 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 1 hour ago, NewEra said: Which QBs that he hasnāt trained are more physically talented? Ā Vick for 1.Ā ElwayĀ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 I think Steve Young also belongs in this conversation. But at the moment, Josh looks be that guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: Ā Vick for 1.Ā ElwayĀ Vick- Ā If he were 6ā4 240 with similar movement skills as he had as a 6 foot 215 lb qb, I would agree with you. Ā Joshās size is a huge advantage. Ā I think the only place Vick > Josh is speed. Ā Ā Elway- Ā the eye test says it all in this case. Ā He doesnāt move or throw as well as Josh. Ā Heās smaller than Josh. Ā Josh is 100x the runner Elway was. Ā To date, he does everything better than Elway did, except win Super Bowls.Ā Ā Ā Ā 44 minutes ago, The Dean said: I think Steve Young also belongs in this conversation. But at the moment, Josh looks be that guy. I agree. Ā I should have mentioned him as well. Ā But his arm and size put him clearly behind JA imo. Ā 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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