Jordan Poyer changes agents

[HappyDays]

Beane doesn't negotiate through the media. I don't know why Poyer is going scorched earth with this. I am now less confident he'll be on the team this year.

[RunTheBall]

"Wants to finish his career" means he's not looking to squeeze every last penny out of the Bills. If he's willing to take a reasonable offer Beane will get something done. Won't be for more than 2 years guaranteed even though the contract will 3/4 years blah blah blah. 

 

 

[Back2Buff]

This is where you have to draw the line.

 

He is one of the top paid players for his position already.  He is almost 31 years old and had a nasty prior injury.  

 

The team committed to Hyde already.  They need to let him play out this year and move on.  In no way should they be giving a 32 year old safety a new contract.  Time to get younger.

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:

This is where you have to draw the line.

 

He is one of the top paid players for his position already.  He is almost 31 years old and had a nasty prior injury.  

 

The team committed to Hyde already.  They need to let him play out this year and move on.  In no way should they be giving a 32 year old safety a new contract.  Time to get younger.

I actually agree with this.  However I could get on board with an Extension that is in the 8-9M AAV (real money) So a 2 year deal at 18M.  Can market it as a 4 year yada yada extension 

 

I am sorry he is already a top 5 paid FS in the NFL.

 

6 seasons before Buffalo and Nothing from him.

Comes to the DB friendly Cover 3 and boom.  

Edited April 8, 2022 by MAJBobby

[Warriorspikes51]

3 year extension
4 years 50 million total with 35 million guaranteed

 

with an easy out for Bills after 2023 and 24

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Warriorspikes51 said:

3 year extension
4 years 50 million total with 35 million guaranteed

 

with an easy out for Bills after 2023 and 24

To much.  before the easy outs we are talking in the 9M AAV range.

[Warcodered]

12 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Beane doesn't negotiate through the media. I don't know why Poyer is going scorched earth with this. I am now less confident he'll be on the team this year.

He hasn't really all he's done is change agents in a year where he's trying to get extended. His wife is the one that's saying things and she doesn't appear to have a filter for things like this.

[Warriorspikes51]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

To much.  before the easy outs we are talking in the 9M AAV range.

his hit this season is 10.7 already

3 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

He hasn't really all he's done is change agents in a year where he's trying to get extended. His wife is the one that's saying things and she doesn't appear to have a filter for things like this.

his wife has clearly stated they Love the Bills and want to win us a SB

[MAJBobby]

6 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

his hit this season is 10.7 already

his wife has clearly stated they Love the Bills and want to win us a SB

Dont care what he has already been paid.  his value is no more than 9M AAV.  I also do not care what Rachel has tweeted, she already said the reality and then deleted that tweet.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

The way I see it.  Does the Bills win total projections change with Hamlin or Johnson as the other safety over Poyer?  No with will not.  

I don’t understand why or how win projections would matter in the slightest.  

[TheBrownBear]

14 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Why? Because she advocates for her guy to get what he deserves? Perhaps the fans are jealous they don’t have a woman who looks like her AND supports them.

I sincerely doubt that many, if any, of us are jealous of a woman whose entire existence seemingly revolves around sharing nearly naked big butt shots with the entire world.  She'd be fun for a month or two in my younger days, but I'd take my supportive wife (who also has a brain, education, real job, morals, a soul AND looks) all day everyday over Ms. Bush.

[YoloinOhio]

39 minutes ago, wppete said:

I agree. But what if Poyer  threatens to hold out? Trade him and find replacement in the draft? Some studs in the 2nd -3rd round this year at safety. 

If he holds out of TC he will be fined each day as he’s under contract so I don’t see that happening. If he “holds out” of OTAs it doesn’t matter he knows the defense like the back of his hand. 

18 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

He hasn't really all he's done is change agents in a year where he's trying to get extended. His wife is the one that's saying things and she doesn't appear to have a filter for things like this.

He did speak to the media 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Just have Poyer open a vitamin company. Name it JP12 and have the Bills pay him under the table.

[NewEra]

39 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:

This is where you have to draw the line.

 

He is one of the top paid players for his position already.  He is almost 31 years old and had a nasty prior injury.  

 

The team committed to Hyde already.  They need to let him play out this year and move on.  In no way should they be giving a 32 year old safety a new contract.  Time to get younger.

what does one of the top paid safeties even mean!  Poyer is 13th and Hyde is 14th.   Both are all pros.  Not pro bowlers…. All pro.

 

i agree that we should draw a line and not go over.  What’s he’s worth to this team….and how can we make both sides happy for one year beyond 2022.  He wants some gtd money.  Can’t blame him, coming off an all Pro season in which the QBs passer rating against him was the lowest I can remember.  Can’t blame Beane for not wanting to pay him beyond this season (if that happens to be the case).  I don’t see Beane getting bullied here, but I could see him trying to keep Poyer for 22 and 23.  He’s more than just a safety.  He’s a vocal and emotional leader and that stuff matters 

33 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

3 year extension
4 years 50 million total with 35 million guaranteed

 

with an easy out for Bills after 2023 and 24

Def too much.  Guarantee his money for the next 2 years and that’s it.  

Edited April 8, 2022 by NewEra

[BuffaloRebound]

3 years, $30m, $20mgtd.  Add extra years to pump up the headline numbers for his wife 

[Rocket94]

Just now, BuffaloRebound said:

3 years, $30m, $20mgtd.  Add extra years to pump up the headline numbers for his wife 

DB’s begin their descent at this time! 1-2 more years tops!

[Rochesterfan]

30 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

I actually agree with this.  However I could get on board with an Extension that is in the 8-9M AAV (real money) So a 2 year deal at 18M.  Can market it as a 4 year yada yada extension 

 

I am sorry he is already a top 5 paid FS in the NFL.

 

6 seasons before Buffalo and Nothing from him.

Comes to the DB friendly Cover 3 and boom.  

I think you are close, but I think the AAV for the first 2 years is to high.  I would look at a max of about 20 guaranteed with a very minimal salary in year 1 and 2 both guaranteed also.

 

So he gets like 24 guaranteed, but his actual cost this year and next is only like 6 million each year against the cap.  Then have year 3 go up some - closer to this years salary with the bonus and then 1-2 years of out with minimal dead cap 8 million or less.

 

I am also fine if they trade him if needed and get younger.

 

 

 

26 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

3 year extension
4 years 50 million total with 35 million guaranteed

 

with an easy out for Bills after 2023 and 24

 

I don’t mind the idea, but that contract makes no sense - way to much guaranteed money by at least 15+ million to have outs after even 2024 - you are talking about 14 million dead cap and with that guaranteed money spread out over the years - you are not getting any cap savings this year with close to 7 million in SB spread out and a vet minimum contract - you are looking at 9 million - barely a savings.

 

Cut that down to 20 million guaranteed or even 24 with 2 years salary at 2 million guaranteed and I am fine, but 35 million - nope let him walk or trade him.

 

 

[gonzo1105]

Give him a 1 year extension with more money up front this year. Thats it. If he doesn't want it then let him go. He gets an extra year and more money. The bills dont have to commit long term and allows them time to draft or develop a safety to replace him. 

[Back2Buff]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

what does one of the top paid safeties even mean!  Poyer is 13th and Hyde is 14th.   Both are all pros.  Not pro bowlers…. All pro.

 

i agree that we should draw a line and not go over.  What’s he’s worth to this team….and how can we make both sides happy for one year beyond 2022.  He wants some gtd money.  Can’t blame him, coming off an all Pro season in which the QBs passer rating against him was the lowest I can remember.  Can’t blame Beane for not wanting to pay him beyond this season (if that happens to be the case).  I don’t see Beane getting bullied here, but I could see him trying to keep Poyer for 22 and 23.  He’s more than just a safety.  He’s a vocal and emotional leader and that stuff matters 

Def too much.  Guarantee his money for the next 2 years and that’s it.  

 

Strong Safeties total cash for 2022:

 

Adams 14.4

Diggs 14

Johnson 10.75

Hyde 7.7

Poyer 7.176

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cash/strong-safety/

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:

 

Strong Safeties total cash for 2022:

 

Adams 14.4

Diggs 14

Johnson 10.75

Hyde 7.7

Poyer 7.176

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cash/strong-safety/

Oh….”strong safties”……with both Poyer and Hyde listed.  🤣 they are the 13th and 14th highest paid safeties in the league. Period

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Oh….”strong safties”……with both Poyer and Hyde listed.  🤣 they are the 13th and 14th highest paid safeties in the league. Period

I’m pretty sure the safety positions are interchangeable in this D. I know they are technically FS and SS but they have similar roles in the scheme, someone can correct me if I’m wrong here. 

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

I’m pretty sure the safety positions are interchangeable in this D. I know they are technically FS and SS but they have similar roles in the scheme, someone can correct me if I’m wrong here. 

Yeah I know.  You are 💯 correct.

 

My point…..dude was trying to prove a point was they are both in the top 5 highest paid “strong safeties”…..when that’s not how it is seen in the landscape of the nfl and how they are paid.  They are the 13th and 14th highest paid safeties in the league.  They are among the “highest paid” only if you differentiate which safety position…..and that’s only done in situations where people are just making up nonsense.  They aren’t among the highest paid safeties unless you consider 13th and 14th highest paid.  

[MasterStrategist]

3 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

3 years 26M that is where I go.  AAV is 8.6M  That is a good contract for Poyer.  Can make the first 2 years fully guaranteed.  Anything more than that I would move on 

I think that's fair, my original thought was $9-10m per AAV, given cap likely to keep increasing value.

 

1 problem I see is if we give this to Jordan, then Micah is immediately underpaid (compared to Poyer).  To me, both are worth similar $s, and I haven't done the research to see total value each player has received while in Buffalo, but may factor into decisions.  

 

On the other hand, I am a big supporter of Hamlin and think he could be ready to step up as a starter by 2023.  Jordan has 2-3 great seasons left though, so my preference would be to keep him and Hyde working together.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

On 4/7/2022 at 3:18 AM, Locomark said:

No this is not. Next year we will have to pay Oliver and Knox and Davis and a few others and  we have now kicked a lot of money into that year already so there will be restraint to not give big money to the older players. The gravy train only works for players on an upward trajectory, not at the end of their career. The exception is someone like Von who filled a giant gap for us. A defense doesn’t need to pay any safety big money. Just Look at Tyron. He is still looking for a team and he is the same age as Micah and Jordan.  It’s quite possible 2 years from now both safeties and Milano will all be gone due to their age and salary wants. 

Now you’re saying 2 years from now?  I agree with the safety value argument but I’m just sick of hearing bills fans parrot “we can’t pay everyone” 

Clearly we can. We started the offseason with negative cap space. If we can’t pay an all -pro who can we pay? The cap is going up and Poyer already makes 10 mil against the cap. It will be a modest raise/year and an extension which will create even more cap space this season. Next year we can restructure Allen and others. We can keep every single player that is on this team if we keep pushing cap hits into later years (Not saying everyone deserves an extension). We might not be able to add much more, but do we really need to? Other than draft picks? Hasn’t anyone been paying attention to how the cap works this offseason? Seems like a good chance to finally learn about it with all the signings, extensions and restructures. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Rock-A-Bye Beasley

[Jerboski]

Don’t pay it

[YoloinOhio]

52 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Yeah I know.  You are 💯 correct.

 

My point…..dude was trying to prove a point was they are both in the top 5 highest paid “strong safeties”…..when that’s not how it is seen in the landscape of the nfl and how they are paid.  They are the 13th and 14th highest paid safeties in the league.  They are among the “highest paid” only if you differentiate which safety position…..and that’s only done in situations where people are just making up nonsense.  They aren’t among the highest paid safeties unless you consider 13th and 14th highest paid.  

Yes

[PetermansRedemption]

Too old to devote too much money to

[BananaB]

Poyer is one of my favourite players but now ain’t the time.

[Buddo]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

Yeah I know.  You are 💯 correct.

 

My point…..dude was trying to prove a point was they are both in the top 5 highest paid “strong safeties”…..when that’s not how it is seen in the landscape of the nfl and how they are paid.  They are the 13th and 14th highest paid safeties in the league.  They are among the “highest paid” only if you differentiate which safety position…..and that’s only done in situations where people are just making up nonsense.  They aren’t among the highest paid safeties unless you consider 13th and 14th highest paid.  

 

It's certainly not being badly paid, and considering there are only 64 starting safeties in the league, being 13th and 14th can be argued to be amongst the highest paid, especially as there probably isn't too many actual $ from them being in the top 10.

 

Now, there have been some more sensible noises coming through from Rosenhaus, as regards Poyer wanting to see his career out as a Bill, but for all that he's deserved the money he's got, I'm not so sure he deserves more. A new deal around the same money, seems fair enough to me, as I don't believe he would get that elsewhere in a hurry - even if he hit FA next year.

 

Imho, there seems to be too much ego involved in wanting to get paid. A new contract is one thing, but the push for that appears to be also for a bunch more money as well, and I don't think it's there.

 

I also have the feeling that we have one of the classic NFL situations, where if the player pushes for too much, he ends up with next to nothing. Too often , players don't realize that their best market value, is with the team they are at.

[Mango]

3 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

 

Strong Safeties total cash for 2022:

 

Adams 14.4

Diggs 14

Johnson 10.75

Hyde 7.7

Poyer 7.176

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cash/strong-safety/

This. I don’t see him signing anything less than $10M per. Poyer was the best player on this defense last year. He isn’t taking $8-9M

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, Buddo said:

 

It's certainly not being badly paid, and considering there are only 64 starting safeties in the league, being 13th and 14th can be argued to be amongst the highest paid, especially as there probably isn't too many actual $ from them being in the top 10.

 

Now, there have been some more sensible noises coming through from Rosenhaus, as regards Poyer wanting to see his career out as a Bill, but for all that he's deserved the money he's got, I'm not so sure he deserves more. A new deal around the same money, seems fair enough to me, as I don't believe he would get that elsewhere in a hurry - even if he hit FA next year.

 

Imho, there seems to be too much ego involved in wanting to get paid. A new contract is one thing, but the push for that appears to be also for a bunch more money as well, and I don't think it's there.

 

I also have the feeling that we have one of the classic NFL situations, where if the player pushes for too much, he ends up with next to nothing. Too often , players don't realize that their best market value, is with the team they are at.

All pro players that aren’t paid within the top 10 of their positions have a gripe imo.  
 

that said, I wouldn’t give Poyer a raise. If he wants more guaranteed money, which would also allow us to work the cap even more, I’d guarantee his 2023.  That locks up the tandem for the next two years.  
 

His wife is probably in his ear with all these players calling shots.  He made all pro for the first time and that is usually the best time to try and get some more guaranteed cash.  

[extrahammer]

I think we should try to find something that works, I think Beane will, but my concern with Poyer is he's just now pushing this. Free Agency started a month ago and he's just now switching agents. The Diggs deal has been talked about and expected since during the season, Poyer waits until most teams have already allocated their budgets to try to get a bigger deal? 

Edited April 8, 2022 by extrahammer

[Rocket94]

4 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

Give him a 1 year extension with more money up front this year. Thats it. If he doesn't want it then let him go. He gets an extra year and more money. The bills dont have to commit long term and allows them time to draft or develop a safety to replace him. 

Yes...time starts about now about developing a replacement. The safety position can get old real quick.

[Dopey]

We are drafting a safety this year. Although a great tandem, they are old. Time to groom a replacement. Or two.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I’m pretty sure the safety positions are interchangeable in this D. I know they are technically FS and SS but they have similar roles in the scheme, someone can correct me if I’m wrong here. 

 

No, you’re pretty much right.  The fact that Poyer and Hyde can interchange safety roles is one of their features

 

21 minutes ago, Dopey said:

We are drafting a safety this year. Although a great tandem, they are old. Time to groom a replacement. Or two.

 

I mean, that’s a fairly safe bet considering we’ve drafted a safety 2 of the last 3 years, with a CB sandwiched between

The question is what round?

[Dopey]

29 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No, you’re pretty much right.  The fact that Poyer and Hyde can interchange safety roles is one of their features

 

 

I mean, that’s a fairly safe bet considering we’ve drafted a safety 2 of the last 3 years, with a CB sandwiched between

The question is what round?

 

29 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No, you’re pretty much right.  The fact that Poyer and Hyde can interchange safety roles is one of their features

 

 

I mean, that’s a fairly safe bet considering we’ve drafted a safety 2 of the last 3 years, with a CB sandwiched between

The question is what round?

I can only dream about Hamilton, but I wouldn't be mad if Daxton Hill or Cline were drafted in the 2nd round. What we do at safety in the draft will tell us a lot about coach's feelings on our previous choices. Are they confident one of them can replace our vet studs?

Edited April 9, 2022 by Dopey

[Sierra Foothills]

10 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

The way I see it.  Does the Bills win total projections change with Hamlin or Johnson as the other safety over Poyer?  No with will not.  

 

In the Ryan Bates thread I brought up WAR, Wins Above Replacement. I definitely think Poyer is worth at least one win more than Hamlin or Johnson.

 

9 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

3 years 26M that is where I go.  AAV is 8.6M  That is a good contract for Poyer.  Can make the first 2 years fully guaranteed.  Anything more than that I would move on 

 

And why would you pay him that much if he's no better than Hamlin or Johnson? As a GM you're always trying to pay for the "true value" of the player. If Poyer gets 3/26 that means he's a pretty good player.

 

9 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Dont care what he has already been paid.  his value is no more than 9M AAV.  I also do not care what Rachel has tweeted, she already said the reality and then deleted that tweet.

 

I agree that his current contract doesn't dictate his future one but I'm sure the infamous Miss Bush disagrees.

[MAJBobby]

1 hour ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

In the Ryan Bates thread I brought up WAR, Wins Above Replacement. I definitely think Poyer is worth at least one win more than Hamlin or Johnson.

 

 

And why would you pay him that much if he's no better than Hamlin or Johnson? As a GM you're always trying to pay for the "true value" of the player. If Poyer gets 3/26 that means he's a pretty good player.

 

 

I agree that his current contract doesn't dictate his future one but I'm sure the infamous Miss Bush disagrees.

If Johnson or Hamlin can play without dropoff or Poyer get more inline essentially getting a paycut. That is a fine contract. I can handle Poyer extended shorter term and under 9M AAV 

[Rochesterfan]

8 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

In the Ryan Bates thread I brought up WAR, Wins Above Replacement. I definitely think Poyer is worth at least one win more than Hamlin or Johnson.

 

 

And why would you pay him that much if he's no better than Hamlin or Johnson? As a GM you're always trying to pay for the "true value" of the player. If Poyer gets 3/26 that means he's a pretty good player.

 

 

I agree that his current contract doesn't dictate his future one but I'm sure the infamous Miss Bush disagrees.

 

So is there anything to back this up or just your feeling?

 

The closest thing to that I have seen quantified - would be Vegas odds with a player injured or out for the season.

 

In an individual game - a safety missing the game would not really move the line at all.  Other than QB and maybe a real special OT or DE - I am not sure any other position missing the season shifts a teams W/L total by a game.  
 

I personally think if Poyer was moved and replaced by Johnson and Hamlin would be less than 1 point per game for the player - maybe 14 points on the season. It could result in an additional loss, but I doubt it would dent the overall win total Vegas puts out.  It is just not an impact position.  
 

I like Poyer and have no issues extending him for the right deal - if it saves us money this year and next, but I also do not think that trading him and getting something or letting him play out the contract is bad.  I like what I have seen out of Hamlin and Johnson and wouldn’t mind seeing more, but with the task at hand - my preference is for Poyer and his family to shut up and win.

 

 

[BillsMafi$]