Bills match Bears Offer Sheet for Ryan Bates, 4 yr deal

[njbuff]

3 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

Not sure Crowder is an upgrade, but good enough to keep the offense humming

 

Beasley fell off a cliff last year. Crowder should at least add a little more speed than Beasley when he is on the field.

[Stank_Nasty]

7 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

Not sure Crowder is an upgrade, but good enough to keep the offense humming

 

3 minutes ago, njbuff said:

 

Beasley fell off a cliff last year. Crowder should at least add a little more speed than Beasley when he is on the field.

Was crowder not the one that took a crosser about 50 yards to the house against us last year? I definitely think he adds a bit of pop there, and everything i've read said he's an absolute technician in the slot.

[njbuff]

3 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

 

Was crowder not the one that took a crosser about 50 yards to the house against us last year? I definitely think he adds a bit of pop there, and everything i've read said he's an absolute technician in the slot.

 

Crowder's problem is that he never stays on the field, hence his availability for the Bills.

 

If he can remain available, he can be a huge upgrade over Beasley and relegating poor poor McKenzie to gadget duties. 😁

[JGMcD2]

19 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Why does Bates automatically (or even probably) walk next year? is he going to take personal offense at being given a tender?

As far as the misplay is concerned, I think you provided my answer: "no one is making him an offer if it costs a 2nd rounder". So, now instead of us being able to make an offer on our terms, we had to compete with the highest bidder.

Most free agents want to see what they’re worth on the open market. 
 

Getting to free agency is a HUGE deal for players. It’s, in most cases, their only chance to make life (generation) changing wealth. It doesn’t matter if it’s RFA of UFA… any chance to have multiple parties lobbying for your services gives them an outstanding opportunity to make more money. 
 

So yes, nobody is making Bates an offer at greater than $4M/year in return for a RD2 pick. Bates gladly signs his RFA tender for 1 year, starts for a Super Bowl contenders and waits to see what the market looks like next year… where he’s not inhibited at all by the RFA process. Meaning the highest bidder has the best chance. 
 

The point being, RFA more often than not don’t sign long term extensions with their original team after accepting the 1 year tender, because they want to reach FA. The time to get a long term deal worked out was before the RFA tender was given… after it’s given you’re most likely not inking a guy to a long term deal. 
 

Your point about us “not being able to make an offer on our terms” and being at the mercy of the “highest bidder” is just wrong. That opportunity was BEFORE the tender was placed. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by JGMcD2

[Shake_My_Head]

7 minutes ago, njbuff said:

 

Beasley fell off a cliff last year. Crowder should at least add a little more speed than Beasley when he is on the field.

What?      He had 82 catches, second most for a slot receiver in the league.   Yes, his YPC and TDs were down from 2020.   But that is nowhere near "dropping off a cliff" performance.

 

 

[njbuff]

1 minute ago, Shake_My_Head said:

What?      He had 82 catches, second most for a slot receiver in the league.   Yes, his YPC and TDs were down from 2020.   But that is nowhere near "dropping off a cliff" performance.

 

 

 

I'm talking about his game day speed that has fallen off a cliff. 

[Shake_My_Head]

Just now, njbuff said:

 

I'm talking about his game day speed that has fallen off a cliff. 

I'm talking about effectiveness.     He was still was a valuable third-down difference maker--and Crowder will have big shoes to fill, IMO.

[MrEpsYtown]

7 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Most free agents want to see what they’re worth on the open market. 
 

Getting to free agency is a HUGE deal for players. It’s, in most cases, their only chance to make life (generation) changing wealth. It doesn’t matter if it’s RFA of UFA… any chance to have multiple parties lobbying for your services gives them an outstanding opportunity to make more money. 
 

So yes, nobody is making Bates an offer at greater than $4M/year in return for a RD2 pick. Bates gladly signs his RFA tender for 1 year, starts for a Super Bowl contenders and waits to see what the market looks like next year… where he’s not inhibited at all by the RFA process. Meaning the highest bidder has the best chance. 
 

The point being, RFA more often than not don’t sign long term extensions with their original team after accepting the 1 year tender, because they want to reach FA. The time to get a long term deal worked out was before the RFA tender was given… after it’s given you’re most likely not inking a guy to a long term deal. 
 

Your point about us “not being able to make an offer on our terms” and being at the mercy of the “highest bidder” is just wrong. That opportunity was BEFORE the tender was placed. 

Great take and well written. To add, allowing Bates to go to market and see his value around the league let the Bills know they were making a good deal. Bates’ situation is a very unique one and I think it would have been very difficult to project his value. Now we know, and he knows, and we get to have him for 4 years for a deal the market deemed fair. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

That’s starter money my friends.

[Beerball]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Edit: it wasn’t me. But you know who you are

how long has it been since you've had to use the "this is fine" dude? Been a nice stretch for Bills fans.

[FilthyBeast]

I'm actually surprised this happened and now it's pretty clear this team views Bates as locked into a starting spot this season.

[Doc]

31 minutes ago, Malazan said:

BPA isn't a thing. Most teams use something that if you describe it would be "BVA" aka Best Value Available. Drafting BPA is a bad strategy. To explain this in the extreme, the BPA could be a QB.. a QB at 25would be a massive waste on the Bills though..

 

Same thing if you look in the draft and you're in the 2nd round and the BPA is a player who's going to have a hard time making the team then.. well, you have better value elsewhere. It's not drafting for need, but it's a balancing act. Then you look at things like a safety... don't draft a safety in the 1st because solid productive players are available in FA every year at that position and even the cost of the elite ones don't compare to pass rushers and wide receivers.

 

It's more like BPAPNNGN (best player available at a position of not necessarily greatest need).  And BPA is largely subjective after the first 10-15 picks.

[Buddo]

12 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Why does Bates automatically (or even probably) walk next year? is he going to take personal offense at being given a tender?

As far as the misplay is concerned, I think you provided my answer: "no one is making him an offer if it costs a 2nd rounder". So, now instead of us being able to make an offer on our terms, we had to compete with the highest bidder.

 

When do you think we would be making that offer 'on our terms?'

 

Bates only has to sign the tender, if we had given him the 2nd round one, and that's it for this season.

 

The reasons to give him the 2nd round tender, are imho, twofold. Firstly, you want to keep the player (retrospectively obvious).

 

Secondly, you are protecting your 'investment' by getting a 2nd round pick should someone actually sign him to an offer sheet.

 

The reality being with respect to Bates, that the original round offer doesn't get you any return at all, as he was a UDFA.

 

Personally, I was of the opinion, that we should have tendered him at the 2nd round level, but I was more concerned about 'protecting an asset' than particularly thinking about the implications going forward. i.e. the greater potential to lose him next year when he would have become a FA.

 

For a starting Guard, I thought that the $3.98m was a decent deal, but with Bates, you get the added value of being able to play any position along the line, something that very few seemed to be thinking added any real weight to his value.

 

As things have turned out, Beane looks like he's pulled a masterstroke, assuming Bates continues to play well. 4 years at £4.25m average, is, imho, terrific value for a guy as versatile as Bates, who will be a starter as well.

 

It also represents additional value going forward, because if Saffold is 'one and done', then we have a ready made replacement at LG.

 

I wanted us to retain Bates all along, but the way in which it has panned out, is far better for us long term.

 

Essentially, I was wrong about the 2nd Round tender being the right move, and Beane deserves a good deal of Kudos for having the cohones to see this through (by only putting the lowest tender on him).

[Beerball]

4 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

Not possible. I heard from a reliable poster here that he is a Bear!

 

Really curious about the terms.

 

If it is 4 years this will be a recurring thread theme one way or another.

 

Welcome Ryan "Rick" Bates, new Bills legend!

@John from Riverside said what?

[Malazan]

33 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

Not sure Crowder is an upgrade, but good enough to keep the offense humming

 

29 minutes ago, njbuff said:

 

Beasley fell off a cliff last year. Crowder should at least add a little more speed than Beasley when he is on the field.

 

16 minutes ago, Shake_My_Head said:

What?      He had 82 catches, second most for a slot receiver in the league.   Yes, his YPC and TDs were down from 2020.   But that is nowhere near "dropping off a cliff" performance.

 

 

 

19 minutes ago, njbuff said:

 

Crowder's problem is that he never stays on the field, hence his availability for the Bills.

 

If he can remain available, he can be a huge upgrade over Beasley and relegating poor poor McKenzie to gadget duties. 😁

 

Best Season: 

Crowder (2019) - Catches: 78, Yards: 833, Yard/Rec: 10.7, TDs: 6, Catch: 63.9%, YAC: 365

Beasley (2020) - Catches: 82, Yards: 967, Yard/Rec: 11.8, TDs: 4, Catch: 76.6%, YAC: 354

 

Last Season: 

Crowder (7 Games) - Catches: 51, Yards: 447, Yard/Rec: 8.8, TDs: 2, Catch: 71.8%, YAC: 327

Beasley (16 games) - Catches: 82, Yards: 693, Yard/Rec: 8.5, TDs: 1, Catch: 73.2%, YAC: 305

 

Career:

Crowder (28 years old / 96 games / 18 games lost to injury) - Catches: 409, Yard/Rec: 11.3, TDs: 29, Catch: 66.9%, YAC: 1895

Beaseley )32 years old / 149 games / 2 games lost to injury) - Catches: 550, Yard/Rec: 10.4, TDs: 34, Catch: 71%, YAC:  2446

Edited March 28, 2022 by Malazan

[Fixxxer]

Great news, hated the idea of losing a player that we developed into a starter. Good OL are not easy to come by. 

[Beerball]

4 hours ago, jkeerie said:

I really believe this was the plan all along...to sign Bates to a long term deal, but let the market determine the dollar figure.  

Will Wolford says "hi."

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Malazan said:

Best Season: 

Crowder (2019) - Catches: 78, Yards: 833, Yard/Rec: 10.7, TDs: 6, Catch: 63.9%, YAC: 365

Beasley (2020) - Catches: 82, Yards: 967, Yard/Rec: 11.8, TDs: 4, Catch: 76.6%, YAC: 354

 

Last Season: 

Crowder (7 Games) - Catches: 51, Yards: 447, Yard/Rec: 8.8, TDs: 2, Catch: 71.8%, YAC: 327

Beasley (16 games) - Catches: 82, Yards: 693, Yard/Rec: 8.5, TDs: 1, Catch: 73.2%, YAC: 305

 

Career:

Crowder (28 years old / 96 games) - Catches: 409, Yard/Rec: 11.3, TDs: 29, Catch: 66.9%, YAC: 1895

Beaseley )32 years old / 149 games) - Catches: 550, Yard/Rec: 10.4, TDs: 34, Catch: 71%, YAC:  2446

 

Actually Crowder's best season was in 2016 (67, 847, 12.6, 7, 67.7%, don't know).  And it was better than Beasley's best season prior to joining the Bills.  The question is staying healthy.

[Beast]

The Bills now need to curb stomp the Bears this season for interfering in our own family matters.

[Process]

5 minutes ago, Malazan said:

 

 

Best Season: 

Crowder (2019) - Catches: 78, Yards: 833, Yard/Rec: 10.7, TDs: 6, Catch: 63.9%, YAC: 365

Beasley (2020) - Catches: 82, Yards: 967, Yard/Rec: 11.8, TDs: 4, Catch: 76.6%, YAC: 354

 

Last Season: 

Crowder (7 Games) - Catches: 51, Yards: 447, Yard/Rec: 8.8, TDs: 2, Catch: 71.8%, YAC: 327

Beasley (16 games) - Catches: 82, Yards: 693, Yard/Rec: 8.5, TDs: 1, Catch: 73.2%, YAC: 305

 

Career:

Crowder (28 years old / 96 games) - Catches: 409, Yard/Rec: 11.3, TDs: 29, Catch: 66.9%, YAC: 1895

Beaseley )32 years old / 149 games) - Catches: 550, Yard/Rec: 10.4, TDs: 34, Catch: 71%, YAC:  2446

What was Cole's best season prior to playing with Josh Allen?

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

“They” is no longer with the team 

i would seriously love to know who made the call on this— Johnson, Daboll? They had to think Bates was a total bottom feeder to not start him during that mid-season stretch when the entire interior oline was getting blown up every week. 

[Malazan]

15 minutes ago, Process said:

What was Cole's best season prior to playing with Josh Allen?

 

It's the season under "Best Season" in my post aka 2020. I did not differentiate between QBs. That is not how stats work. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Malazan

[Punching Bag]

3 hours ago, Buftex said:

I wonder, did Beane overplay his hand with Bates at all?  He probably could have offered him less, and he would have been happy to sign a contract, knowing that he was was returning. But he let Bates go out and find another team to draw up a contract for him.  It looks as though the Bears structured a deal they didn't think the Bills would match.  Glad he is back, but wondering if this is one of those few times where Beane got a little too cocky.

 

 

No this is Beane's philosophy - players have earned right to free agency. 

If agent approached Beane with numbers the Bills would have done a contract with him.

Bates got some free hotel stays, meals and frequent flyer miles in off season.

[John from Riverside]

10 minutes ago, Beerball said:

@John from Riverside said what?

I am higher on Bates then most....has excelled every time he has been given a chance

[LeGOATski]

Nice cap to a great FA period for Beane

[Beerball]

3 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Isn’t this the opposite to “kick the can”?

 

They are paying him now.. not later..
 

Not a 100 percent sure though as it’s a saying I don’t hear where I am from…

Brooklyn? 

[Malazan]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Actually Crowder's best season was in 2016 (67, 847, 12.6, 7, 67.7%, don't know).  And it was better than Beasley's best season prior to joining the Bills.  The question is staying healthy.

The two seasons are pretty close. I went with 2019 personally because more catches and my own bias that I watched every jets game with him and he put that team on his back. You're probably correct that while he fewer catches, he had 1 more TD, 14 more yards and 3.8% higher catch percent in 2016. 

[Warcodered]

9 minutes ago, Beast said:

The Bills now need to curb stomp the Bears this season for interfering in our own family matters.

 

[First Round Bust]

yeah 4 years sounds execessive but at least 1 is a void year and is he the replacement center for Morse in 1-2 years...hmm

[Shake_My_Head]

11 minutes ago, Malazan said:

Last Season: 

Crowder (7 Games) - Catches: 51, Yards: 447, Yard/Rec: 8.8, TDs: 2, Catch: 71.8%, YAC: 327

Beasley (16 games) - Catches: 82, Yards: 693, Yard/Rec: 8.5, TDs: 1, Catch: 73.2%, YAC: 305

 

Last Season:

Crowder:  (12 games)

Beasley: (18 games w/ playoffs)

 

2020 Season:

Crowder: (12 games)

Beasley: (18 games w/ playoffs)

 

Availability is a big ability.

[Bookie Man]

Beane is The Slayer

[Malazan]

Just now, Shake_My_Head said:

 

Last Season:

Crowder:  (12 games)

Beasley: (18 games w/ playoffs)

 

2020 Season:

Crowder: (12 games)

Beasley: (18 games w/ playoffs)

 

Availability is a big ability.

 

ok?

 

I posted stats. No one posts stats that include regular season and playoffs. You can do with them what you will. 

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, Malazan said:

The two seasons are pretty close. I went with 2019 personally because more catches and my own bias that I watched every jets game with him and he put that team on his back. You're probably correct that while he fewer catches, he had 1 more TD, 14 more yards and 3.8% higher catch percent in 2016. 

 

I went by totality.  Fewer catches but better numbers everywhere else.  And I think the bigger point is his best season pre-Josh was better than Bease's was pre-Josh, and Josh can certainly do for him what he did for Bease.  Hopefully the training staff does their best with him.

[Turbo44]

Beasley absolutely didn’t fall off a cliff last year - he never had any speed to begin with. Some fans like to justify a player Leaving by saying such things. My opinion is the Bills grew a bit sick of his antics and Beasley didn’t like some of the backlash he got from the public. Fresh start for both I suppose

[HurlyBurly51]

The point on Crowder/Beasley was whether Crowder is considered an upgrade or not.  The stats seem to indicate a wash, at best.

[Malazan]

Just now, Turbo44 said:

Beasley absolutely didn’t fall off a cliff last year - he never had any speed to begin with. Some fans like to justify a player Leaving by saying such things. My opinion is the Bills grew a bit sick of his antics and Beasley didn’t like some of the backlash he got from the public. Fresh start for both I suppose

 

The stats speak for themselves. You should take a look. Beasley fell off a cliff (that's not to say he wasn't effective, but compared to previous seasons.. there was a stark difference). Whatever the Bills felt about him off the field, they replaced his production for about half the cost with a younger player which strikes me of much greater interest to them. 

[Beerball]

3 hours ago, Magox said:

Personally, I think this is better because I believe Bates will be the long-term option.  But, I think in a perfect world they would have wanted to see one more years worth of production before committing to the $8m, hence the 2nd round tender.

This does not compute.

 

[BillsShredder83]

3 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

At first I was confused as to why they didn't put him on a 2nd round tender so they could have had him for cheaper with no competition.

 

But now that I think about it, I wonder if this was what Beane wanted all along. He wanted Bates to sign a long term deal with another team so that he could get Bates locked up long term at what his market is now after a small sample size. As opposed to what he perceives his market will be after a full year as a starter.

5-D Chess out hereeeeeeeeeee

[Einstein]

4 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

At first I was confused as to why they didn't put him on a 2nd round tender so they could have had him for cheaper with no competition.

 

But now that I think about it, I wonder if this was what Beane wanted all along. He wanted Bates to sign a long term deal with another team so that he could get Bates locked up long term at what his market is now after a small sample size. As opposed to what he perceives his market will be after a full year as a starter.

This is a fascinating example of fandom.

[Shake_My_Head]

36 minutes ago, Malazan said:

 

ok?

 

I posted stats. No one posts stats that include regular season and playoffs. You can do with them what you will. 

 

And I posted games played.    Beasley missed only one game over the past two years, including the playoffs.     Versus nine regular season games for Crowder, across two seasons.

 

You can do with that what you will.

.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Shake_My_Head