Ryan "Rick" Bates Watch Thread

[JGMcD2]

When Daryl Williams was released, there was a point made that there was mutual interest in bringing him back at a reduced cap hit. 
 

I don’t think he’s gone. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

21 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

It makes sense when you look at the options -

tender at the lowest, get him back at that amount 

tender at the lowest, risk someone offering between 2.4 and 3.9, you then match at less than the 2nd round tender that you would have paid anyway 

tender at the lowest, risk someone offering above 4 mill, ok they value him higher than we do, but we can pay him that if we choose

 

tender at the lowest, someone offers a front loaded deal that pays like 10 mill over two years or something with 7 in first year  - see ya - take his cap space and go sign will Hernandez who I think would be an upgrade 

 

 

 

Agree and if you do the $3.9, you're locked in at that as rarely does any team  go after a 2nd round tender unless was some real star.  It is still a small sample size to offer that much.  He also hasn't signed with anyone either.  Could be the offer's weren't that much better than the $2.4 and he just talked to other teams to gauge his value.

 

 

4 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

When Daryl Williams was released, there was a point made that there was mutual interest in bringing him back at a reduced cap hit. 
 

I don’t think he’s gone. 

 

If that's the plan they likely tried to get him to take a cut to start with and he said no.  Certainly if no other teams sign him and in 2 to 3 weeks he may decide the Bills offer wasn't so bad after all.

[YoloinOhio]

13 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Agree and if you do the $3.9, you're locked in at that as rarely does any team  go after a 2nd round tender unless was some real star.  It is still a small sample size to offer that much.  He also hasn't signed with anyone either.  Could be the offer's weren't that much better than the $2.4 and he just talked to other teams to gauge his value.

 

 

 

If that's the plan they likely tried to get him to take a cut to start with and he said no.  Certainly if no other teams sign him and in 2 to 3 weeks he may decide the Bills offer wasn't so bad after all.

I remember hearing that about DW too. The issue with his contract was that it was OT money and not OG money. I suppose if he doesn’t find more OT money he could return on a cheap deal to compete at OG but I really feel like that spot is going to be a competition regardless of whether he, Bates or both return. 

[Shake_My_Head]

11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Guy is taking some abuse in the comments though

Shocking.    Absolutely shocking.    

[PromoTheRobot]

Didn't I just hear Sal C say Bates signed with the Patriots?

[John Adams]

Did we all forget about Ike Boettger? 

 

Bates only started because he got hurt and he's still under contract. I know he's hurt but he was also playing well when he went down. 

 

Whatever the answer is, it's not likely Ford though the contract year can be a motivator. 

[Brand J]

23 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Didn't I just hear Sal C say Bates signed with the Patriots?

All Bates can do is sign their offer. Bills would still have 10 days to match.

[78thealltimegreat]

I wouldn’t totally discount Cody Ford I think Kromer is going to look at him as a reclamation project special 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I remember hearing that about DW too. The issue with his contract was that it was OT money and not OG money. I suppose if he doesn’t find more OT money he could return on a cheap deal to compete at OG but I really feel like that spot is going to be a competition regardless of whether he, Bates or both return. 

 

I feel like I'm talking into a soundproof room here, but if we look at the AAV for the top contracts for RT and top contracts for G (spotract doesn't separate), Williams would be the #6 paid RT but the #10 paid OG ..... meaning that

1) there's not that much difference between the pay of the top OG and the pay of the top RT

2) somewhat more OG than RT get paid top money

 

The real problem is that Williams was being paid like a top-10 G or RT - and he wasn't playing like "all that " last year at either position.  "Better than Cody Ford" is too low of a floor.

 

57 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

All Bates can do is sign their offer. Bills would still have 10 days to match.

 

5 days, not 10

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, John Adams said:

Did we all forget about Ike Boettger? 

 

Bates only started because he got hurt and he's still under contract. I know he's hurt but he was also playing well when he went down. 

 

Whatever the answer is, it's not likely Ford though the contract year can be a motivator. 

 

Boettger is an UFA.  He is rehabbing a torn Achilles suffered Dec 26, and while some guys do return in 8 months (KC then Colts OT Eric Fischer, for example), it's 1) common they aren't the same the first year back 2) many take longer if they do return - a year, say.

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Boettger is an UFA.  He is rehabbing a torn Achilles suffered Dec 26, and while some guys do return in 8 months (KC then Colts OT Eric Fischer, for example), it's 1) common they aren't the same the first year back 2) many take longer if they do return - a year, say.

 

I expect Ike to end up signing back here at some stage, rehab depending. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Didn't I just hear Sal C say Bates signed with the Patriots?

 

Where did you hear this?  It isn't on Sal C's twitter or anyone else's that I've checked.

Also not news on the Google

 

(and again, they can not sign him.  they can give him an offer sheet which he takes to the Bills to see if they'll match in the next 5 days)

 

4 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

Interesting. So who do think will be on the roster?

 

Dawkins, Saffold, Morse, Brown, Doyle and early draft pick are stone cold locks. Thats 6. Seven if you count Bates, but you are also saying you wouldn't match any higher offer, so not sure we can count him.

 

Assuming there will be 9 OL on the roster, you need 2 more to get ahead of Ford. Is it Mancz and another (late) draft pick? Or do you still expect Beane to sign somebody better than Ford in FA?

 

I am not arguing with you I just don't see how Ford (still on the rookie deal) could be cut, esp. with new OL coach.

 

At this point, bringing Ford into camp seems like a reasonable option.  I don't think the Bills intend to count on him though.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Agree and if you do the $3.9, you're locked in at that as rarely does any team  go after a 2nd round tender unless was some real star.  It is still a small sample size to offer that much.  He also hasn't signed with anyone either.  Could be the offer's weren't that much better than the $2.4 and he just talked to other teams to gauge his value.

 

Other teams have until April 22 to make him an offer.  There could be some negotiation between teams going on as his agent tries to get him the best sheet to bring to the Bills.

 

3 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

If that's the plan they likely tried to get him to take a cut to start with and he said no.  Certainly if no other teams sign him and in 2 to 3 weeks he may decide the Bills offer wasn't so bad after all.

 

I think part of the issue may be Williams may see himself as a RT who moved to RG last season to help the team win.  Brown played well enough to become the "guy to beat" moving into next season. So Williams may want to shop himself as a RT first and foremost, then if he gets no offers he likes, he'd consider coming back to B'lo.

 

I tend to feel Bates potentially > Williams at RG, but the sample size is small.

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

I don't know why they didn't just tender him with a 2nd tender. All the dude did was play well when he was put in the lineup do they think teams didn't see how he stabilized the OLine and improved the run game? Not to mention his versatility.

 

Bills do very well at uncovering hidden gems but not so well at gauging the value other teams will put on them.

I think your answer lies in one of these 2:

 

Because they don’t value him as much as you (or I) do.  
 

or

 

Because they were hoping to get lucky and save 1.5M. 

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Where did you hear this?  It isn't on Sal C's twitter or anyone else's that I've checked.

Also not news on the Google

 

(and again, they can not sign him.  they can give him an offer sheet which he takes to the Bills to see if they'll match in the next 5 days)

 

 

At this point, bringing Ford into camp seems like a reasonable option.  I don't think the Bills intend to count on him though.

Ford is Kromer's reclaimation project and on a cost controlled contract.   We are not cutting him.

[Beerball]

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Ford is Kromer's reclaimation project and on a cost controlled contract.   We are not cutting him.

Quoted so I can easily find when Ford is cut. There’s reclamation projects and there’s demolition projects. Ford is the latter.

[Warcodered]

 

[MrEpsYtown]

3 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

 

I am guessing all the offers are going to be pretty much the same. I’m sure there will be a poison pill type thing in the Bears offer since they have the cap space to do whatever. But it doesn’t mean Bates has to take the poison pill offer, he can just weigh his options. And if he wants to come back to Buffalo on a long term contract he could pick the one that they would most likely match. Not for less money, but just without the pill.  If he wants out, then he takes the poison pill. 

[mannc]

3 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I am guessing all the offers are going to be pretty much the same. I’m sure there will be a poison pill type thing in the Bears offer since they have the cap space to do whatever. But it doesn’t mean Bates has to take the poison pill offer, he can just weigh his options. And if he wants to come back to Buffalo on a long term contract he could pick the one that they would most likely match. Not for less money, but just without the pill.  If he wants out, then he takes the poison pill. 

If he wants to come back to Buffalo, can't he just sign a contract with the Bills, without signing with another team first?  

Edited March 23, 2022 by mannc

[NY Nole]

I doubt he gets a big offer from either of those teams - why not bet on himself and the Bills to make another deep run and do this again next year when the cap goes up and more money is available. Plus it would make me less nervous about our OL depth.

[MrEpsYtown]

6 minutes ago, mannc said:

If he wants to come back to Buffalo, can't he just sign a contract with the Bills, without signing with another team first?  

Yep for sure. He doesn’t have to sign and offer sheet, he can just go back to the Bills and tell them what it is going to take. He had a chance to see his market, now he controls his destiny. 

[transplantbillsfan]

It just seems weird if we let Bates walk.  He's been a true developmental guy for Buffalo and it seems like he's finally developed into a solid starting OL.  I wonder if the other teams want him to play Center, which he's expressed a desire to play long term.  The money at Center is better, too.

 

As much as people seem to be ragging on posters complaining about the prospect of losing him, I think losing Bates would be a pretty significant loss for this team.

 

Plus... Cody Ford...

 

YIKES!!!

[MrEpsYtown]

Bears just signed Dakota Dozier. He sucks though so I don’t think it matters, but I just wanted to add that to the conversation. But again they are the ones with the most cap space out of all the teams looking at Bates. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 minutes ago, mannc said:

If he wants to come back to Buffalo, can't he just sign a contract with the Bills, without signing with another team first?  

 

That's an interesting question.  I don't know the answer, actually. 

 

I think part of the idea is to be able to prove to the tendering team that he really did get a legitimate contract for the stated terms, and for that he needs to present it to the Bills. 

 

But I don't know if there are rules where in between being tendered as an RFA and needing to sign the tender, the team could offer him an acceptable contract without an offer sheet and the player could sign

[MiltonWaddams]

Tough situation for Rick. Not guaranteed to start on a SB contender, despite being the singular piece that evolved the o-line from broken to effective in the last 1/3 of the season. I wish I could see what the Bills brass don't see in him to put him in this position. I prefer the Bills to fill CB and WR needs in the top 2 rounds. I really hope that they don't force their own hand by missing on Bates. 

[MrEpsYtown]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That's an interesting question.  I don't know the answer, actually. 

 

I think part of the idea is to be able to prove to the tendering team that he really did get a legitimate contract for the stated terms, and for that he needs to present it to the Bills. 

 

But I don't know if there are rules where in between being tendered as an RFA and needing to sign the tender, the team could offer him an acceptable contract without an offer sheet and the player could sign

I believe it is like the franchise tag. Like after signing the tender you can still negotiate with your original team. However, if Bates signs an offer sheet, I don’t think he can negotiate with the Bills anymore. It’s either match the deal, let him leave, or try to negotiate a trade with the other team in exchange for not matching. 

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

 

What options? Any offers? There could be, but haven’t seen any reported. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

59 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

What options? Any offers? There could be, but haven’t seen any reported. 

 

Good question @RyanTalbotBills: What options is Ryan Bates got to weigh?

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I believe it is like the franchise tag. Like after signing the tender you can still negotiate with your original team. However, if Bates signs an offer sheet, I don’t think he can negotiate with the Bills anymore. It’s either match the deal, let him leave, or try to negotiate a trade with the other team in exchange for not matching. 

My question would be can he reveal to the Bills the offers he got without actually signing an offer sheet, so that the Bills can build a roughly similar offer but with a cap structure that works for us.

[MrEpsYtown]

9 minutes ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

My question would be can he reveal to the Bills the offers he got without actually signing an offer sheet, so that the Bills can build a roughly similar offer but with a cap structure that works for us.

I am not 100%. But I believe that he can, up until he signs an offer sheet. 

[SCBills]

2 hours ago, MiltonWaddams said:

Tough situation for Rick. Not guaranteed to start on a SB contender, despite being the singular piece that evolved the o-line from broken to effective in the last 1/3 of the season. I wish I could see what the Bills brass don't see in him to put him in this position. I prefer the Bills to fill CB and WR needs in the top 2 rounds. I really hope that they don't force their own hand by missing on Bates. 

He helped, but our line also finally got healthy.   Dawkins was a beast again after fighting covid effects all year.  

[NewEra]

34 minutes ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

My question would be can he reveal to the Bills the offers he got without actually signing an offer sheet, so that the Bills can build a roughly similar offer but with a cap structure that works for us.

I can’t say yes definitively, but I don’t see whY he can’t discuss his offers or at least give the bills guidelines to what he wants. 

[Royale with Cheese]

Watch Belicheck spite McDermott by making him the highest paid Guard in NFL History.  That mother****** would.

[KDIGGZ]

Are we even sure he's "good"? He started what like 4 games? If we didn't know Cody Ford was a 2nd round bust of a pick we could probably find 4 games where he played pretty decent too

[YoloinOhio]

59 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Watch Belicheck spite McDermott by making him the highest paid Guard in NFL History.  That mother****** would.

If Rick bates is the crown jewel of belichick’s FA class, I’m certain that McDermott will do an Irish jig 

[mrags]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

I can’t say yes definitively, but I don’t see whY he can’t discuss his offers or at least give the bills guidelines to what he wants. 

Think they have to. Isn’t that the point of the RFA status. We have to be given the opportunity to match no matter what? 

[Warcodered]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Watch Belicheck spite McDermott by making him the highest paid Guard in NFL History.  That mother****** would.

I would love that unless somehow he ends up being an All-pro guard immediatly after arriving there.

[NewEra]

27 minutes ago, mrags said:

Think they have to. Isn’t that the point of the RFA status. We have to be given the opportunity to match no matter what? 

Yeah…. But there isn’t a signed offer yet.  I think he may have been wondering if Bates is allowed to come back and tell the Bills all the details about the offer or if we may not be privy to the details until the offer sheet is signed. Should be the same answer but I don’t know that 💯 to be fact.  I’m just assuming

[mrags]

6 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Yeah…. But there isn’t a signed offer yet.  I think he may have been wondering if Bates is allowed to come back and tell the Bills all the details about the offer or if we may not be privy to the details until the offer sheet is signed. Should be the same answer but I don’t know that 💯 to be fact.  I’m just assuming

Dont think we would know until the offer sheet is submitted. But pretty sure we will get to see exactly what the offer is. And of course be able to match it. 
 

probably should have used the better RFA tag on him. But I’m guessing Beane was assuming for the 3-4m they would have to spend on that, they could get an easy upgrade to replace him. Which makes me believe they don’t value him as much as most of us fans do. 

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

I can’t say yes definitively, but I don’t see whY he can’t discuss his offers or at least give the bills guidelines to what he wants. 

That's true, there shouldn't be any rule against it because he can just present it as "this is what I'd need" like any other negotiation.