DT DaQuan Jones to Buffalo, $3.58M cap this year

[Hapless Bills Fan]

45 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I do think Saffold is probably even now a better guard than what we fielded last year.... just for me that is a really low bar. Williams as a tackle moved inside for conveniencebecause the other RG options blew chunks, Bates who played okay down the stretch, Ike who was serviceable and Cody who sucked. I thought interior oline was the biggest weakness on the team and while there is a price at which I'd take Saffold as an upgrade jumping on him so soon makes me think the price will be too high for the level of upgrade he is. 

 

I like the two DTs. They are both good players who fit the scheme. 

 

FIFY (also don't forget Feliciano who was not playing well before his injury)

 

I think there's reason to believe Dawkins-Saffold-Morse-Bates-Brown could be an improvement on Dawkins-Boettger-Morse-Williams-Brown or Dawkins-Bates-Morse-Williams-Brown.  And of course, both those lines were improvements on Dawkins-Feliciano-Morse-Ford-Williams.

 

We'll see what the contract for Saffold is.  It's possible, between him raving about the knowledgeable training/S&C staff, the amazing training facilities, and Aaron Kromer, that Saffold had non-monetary motivations to choose Buffalo.  But until we see the contract, we won't know.

 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's totally understandable not to want to re-type an entire evaluation, but could you link the post where you provided it?

 

I ask because I actually was curious (and respecting of your views) enough to search for it, and this is the only post by you mentioning Saffold that I could find:

"I want to stop bringing in older mid tier guys and try and get 1 or 2 guys who make an impact." isn't much of an evaluation. 

 

Saffold is 3 years older than Norwell, but Saffold did go to the probowl last year (for what that's worth) while Norwell took a paycut to stay on the Jaguar's roster in 2021, and it's not like the Jags OL did a great job with .... well, anything, last year.

 

Again, totally not a problem to refer to your previous evaluation of Saffold, but I did search and this is the only post after last fall, where you corrected a misapprehension about who started on OL for Tenn when we played them.

 

 

 

 

There you go. It was in the thread about him so I never needed to refer to him by name hence it wouldn't come up in your search.

 

I wouldn't say it was an evaluation more just an opinion. If you want more meat on the bones I think he is a bad pass protector and kind of always has been. His feet are slow, he knows that so he ends up lunging where a player with better feet could adjust on the fly in his pass sets. He gets beaten by twists and defensive ends who loop inside into the B gap way too often and once he is beaten he has basically no recovery ability. He has been an effective run blocker ever since a move into guard after failing at both tackle spots saved his career with the Rams. But I have just never seen it. To me he has always been overrated. I didn't like the deal Tennessee gave him. 

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

FIFY (also don't forget Feliciano who was not playing well before his injury)

 

I think there's reason to believe Dawkins-Saffold-Morse-Bates-Brown could be an improvement on Dawkins-Boettger-Morse-Williams-Brown or Dawkins-Bates-Morse-Williams-Brown.  And of course, both those lines were improvements on Dawkins-Feliciano-Morse-Ford-Williams.

 

We'll see what the contract for Saffold is.  It's possible, between him raving about the knowledgeable training/S&C staff, the amazing training facilities, and Aaron Kromer, that Saffold had non-monetary motivations to choose Buffalo.  But until we see the contract, we won't know.

 

 

Correct. Both on forgetting Feliciano and on the chance it is an upgrade. I just don't think it is a very big one. As the post just linked for a week ago said if he had sat out there and I thought we were getting him as a cheap dust settle guy I wouldn't be against it. As our main vet solution at guard it is a very meh move for me.

[NewEra]

Still no numbers on this one huh?  
 

With interest in Akiem Hicks now too…. I’m confused.  Give that money to Chandler jones NOW!

[Process]

That's.... A lot

 

 

[Logic]

Just now, Process said:

That's.... A lot

 

 

Indeed.

 

Looks like adding a dependable double team splitting, space eating, two-gapping 1T was a high priority.

 

In terms of the ripple effect it will have on Ed Oliver and our young edge guys, I can understand why.

[BillsMafi$]

2 minutes ago, Process said:

That's.... A lot

 

 

Yikes 

[Mikie's Bills]

Not cheap at all..

 

A lot of money tied up in non pass rushing DTs in Star and Jones

[BuffBills51]

4 minutes ago, Process said:

That's.... A lot

 

 

Yikes...I like the signing but that is quite a bit more than I expected.

[Big C]

A little confused about this deal. Did Harry just want to go or is this guy actually better? 

[SCBills]

This real or is this pretend like the initial McKenzie numbers?

[MAJBobby]

That money is the Agents Take I will wait for the breakdown

[GolfandBills]

2 minutes ago, Big C said:

A little confused about this deal. Did Harry just want to go or is this guy actually better? 

1 he’s better and 2 the full details aren’t out yet on the contract for Jones 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, Process said:

That's.... A lot

 

 

 

I would go so far as saying that would be crazy money

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, Big C said:

A little confused about this deal. Did Harry just want to go or is this guy actually better? 

 

Well....he's more durable (has played every game the last 4 years) while playing close to 60% of the snaps

In terms of production (not that that's paramount at 1TDT) they're similar, Harry has a few more TFL and tackles.

 

I'm gonna guess that the sticking point might be guaranteed money, given Phillips track record on durability (missing significant time 3 out of 4 years)

 

7 minutes ago, SCBills said:

This real or is this pretend like the initial McKenzie numbers?

 

I think the initial McKenzie #s were a mistake by Schefter, but one does wonder if there's some padding in there.

[MAJBobby]

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 minutes ago, Process said:

That's.... A lot

 

 

 

Getzenberg followed it up:

 

 

[atlbillsfan1975]

Definitely wait to see the full breakdown of the numbers before reacting. Since we aren’t seeing anything yet regarding Saffold’s deal, do you think it means it’s a team friendly one? Wouldn’t an agent put a big one year number out there? 

[Hebert19]

did anyone see this though?   From KC game.  He's a keeper. 

 

 

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, Logic said:

Indeed.

 

Looks like adding a dependable double team splitting, space eating, two-gapping 1T was a high priority.

 

In terms of the ripple effect it will have on Ed Oliver and our young edge guys, I can understand why.

Zomg wtf…..
 

Brandon Beane…..what are you thinking?  Maybe he looked at his pff pass rush rating? 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Process said:

That's.... A lot

 

 

 

 

Hopefully the majority of those "guaranteed" dollars are actually contingent on being on the roster at the beginning of the league year in 2023..........basically an opt out if he doesn't dominate(which he likely won't).

[Big Blitz]

35 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

did anyone see this though?   From KC game.  He's a keeper. 

 

 

 

 

Wonder what he was tweeting after 13 seconds - can't go thru the TL lol

[gobills404]

TwoBillsDrive: “We need a durable and consistent 1T that can take on double teams”

 

Beane: *signs one for less than what we paid Vernon Butler*
 

TwoBillsDrive:”What is Beane doing that’s way too much money!”

[RyanC883]

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So you're arguing that a highly evaluated player immediately loses value if he actually falls in the draft? Nope, see below.  I'm arguing that player never had the value "analysists" gave him.  

 

Like, if everyone is evaluating Aaron Rodgers as a high 1st round pick but he falls to #24, Green Bay shouldn't pick him because the very fact that he fell means the evaluations were incorrect?  Or Drew Brees falling to 32nd means he was a Bad Draft Pick also?  Rodgers may be an outlier, don't believe Brees' "fell" to 32.  There were concerns about his height going into the NFL.  

 

I don't think you can support that argument very well.  Draft evaluation is an art, and different scouts/teams/pundits weight different factors differently, but the mere fact that a highly evaluated player fell in the draft doesn't intrinsicly change their evaluation on a team's draft board.  

 

That's not how it works.

 

(which sometimes has nothing to do with the player, and everything to do with teams factoring need into the equation which they do)

 

Yes, if a bunch of "analysists" state that a player should go at 24, and he starts falling, there is generally a reason known to most GM's for that fall.  Rodgers is an outlier.  

 

The second part of the argument is that Bean had AJ too high on his board, same with Basham, if he actually took BPA, which I do not believe he did, and rather attacked what he felt were the best "edge" rushers left.  

 

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Mikie's Bills said:

Not cheap at all..

 

A lot of money tied up in non pass rushing DTs in Star and Jones

 

Star was such an abysmal contract.  Hopefully Jones can come in and play to his contract.  I'd also be fine drafting the 1T from GA if he is still available (depending on who else is available) and just sitting Star if needed.  

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, BuffBills51 said:

Yikes...I like the signing but that is quite a bit more than I expected.

 

It is $3m more than he played on in Carolina last year. I really hope there is some agent spin in this.

[appoo]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Hopefully the majority of those "guaranteed" dollars are actually contingent on being on the roster at the beginning of the league year in 2023..........basically an opt out if he doesn't dominate(which he likely won't).

Would imagine the cap hit is skewed towards next season, with the idea that the Bills either keep him and restructure and convert a roster as a singing bonus, or cut him and leave just that roster bonus as the dead cap hit. 
 

something like 5M this year, and 5M roster + 5M base salary in 2023

[John from Riverside]

I just don’t understand fan sometimes we complain but players like Edmunds are not consistent enough and then we complain when we spend money to help them be more consistent by putting down Lehman in front of them that can control the line of scrimmage come on people

10 hours ago, Mikie's Bills said:

Not cheap at all..

 

A lot of money tied up in non pass rushing DTs in Star and Jones

Do we even know what stars future plans are before pooping all over this

Edited March 16, 2022 by John from Riverside

[HOUSE]

Big savings here....he can punt too

 

[JGMcD2]

17 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

Your snarky comment adds little.  Falling players are falling for a reason.  The proof is in the results.  Bean messed up these draft boards, plain and simple.  Perhaps we should give Bean a participation trophy for trying?  

It wasn’t a snarky comment at all, it was me genuinely asking you to walk me through your definition of BPA and then your process for putting together a draft board. 
 

You’re using certain terms here and I’m trying to find some common ground so we can have an actual discussion about the topic at hand. 
 

I do the whole BPA thing and putting together draft boards for a living, but my world is slightly different than the football world (although it retains plenty of similarities). I’ve found that it’s easier to figure out HOW we’re using certain terms before debating the terms and then the process itself. 
 

Hopefully that clears things up… I apologize if the original comment came off snarky. 

[Buffalosouth]

What kind of GM would aquire a player that he can get the inside scoop from former colleagues. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

It wasn’t a snarky comment at all, it was me genuinely asking you to walk me through your definition of BPA and then your process for putting together a draft board. 
 

You’re using certain terms here and I’m trying to find some common ground so we can have an actual discussion about the topic at hand. 
 

I do the whole BPA thing and putting together draft boards for a living, but my world is slightly different than the football world (although it retains plenty of similarities). I’ve found that it’s easier to figure out HOW we’re using certain terms before debating the terms and then the process itself. 
 

Hopefully that clears things up… I apologize if the original comment came off snarky. 

 

1) Yeah you did it to be snarky

 

2) Just because you do something for a living doesn't mean you are very good at it..........not every cook is a good one.........Russ Brandon was an NFL GM for a season.......facts.

 

[JGMcD2]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

1) Yeah you did it to be snarky

 

2) Just because you do something for a living doesn't mean you are very good at it..........not every cook is a good one.........Russ Brandon was an NFL GM for a season.......facts.

 

I didn’t do it to be snarky. You don’t know my intentions, my intentions were EXACTLY what I laid out. 
 

YOU come on here to be snarky, you’ve said it so yourself. Don’t throw stones when you live in a glass house. 
 

Never claimed to be good, said I did it, and that my world is slightly different than football. 
 

I asked so we could find some common ground and have discussion - not do whatever the ***** you do on here (which you’ve recently admitted is be an ####### for entertainment with some legitimately good Bills discussion mixed in). 
 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

I didn’t do it to be snarky. You don’t know my intentions, my intentions were EXACTLY what I laid out. 
 

YOU come on here to be snarky, you’ve said it so yourself. Don’t throw stones when you live in a glass house. 
 

Never claimed to be good, said I did it, and that my world is slightly different than football. 
 

I asked so we could find some common ground and have discussion - not do whatever the ***** you do on here (which you’ve recently admitted is be an ####### for entertainment with some legitimately good Bills discussion mixed in). 
 

 

 

I never said I wasn't snarky........just pointing out your lie.

 

Pro sports is an entertainment business.    This board is here to discuss said entertainment business.

 

Having a focused McClappy photo as your avatar doesn't change the fact that you just come here for entertainment.

 

I do prefer good football discussion...............but do you see me demanding people show me their board when debating a topic/player?  

 

No, you do not.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

25 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

I do prefer good football discussion...............but do you see me demanding people show me their board when debating a topic/player?  

 

I'm glad to hear you prefer football discussion.  That's the point here.  If you have more football discussion to add, pray continue.

 

25 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

I never said I wasn't snarky........just pointing out your lie.

 

There is not a lie here.  Someone interpreted the man's comment as snarky.  He said that was not his intent.  You don't know him, you can't know his intent.   Take the man at his word absent conclusive contrary evidence, and derive your entertainment without insulting people gratuitously. 

 

That's not football discussion.

 

25 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 do you see me demanding people show me their board when debating a topic/player?  

 

No one demanded "show me your board" when debating a topic/player.  The exact quote was "Ryan, can you explain to me your definition of BPA as well as your process for putting together a draft board?"

 

Explain the process.  Not "show me your board".

 

Since the claim @RyanC883 seems to be making (as I understand it, sorry guy don't mean to put words in your mouth!!) is that Beane didn't draft "BPA" because Epenesa and Basham fell, that question is entirely relevant to having a good football discussion about this.  If we don't understand how he thinks BPA is defined, and how draft boards are put together, it can't be discussed because there doesn't seem to be a shared understanding of terms.

 

We get that a lot around here with terms where people go back and forth for days and it turns out they define "Bust" or "Franchise QB" differently and that's the basis of the dispute.

[2003Contenders]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm glad to hear you prefer football discussion.  That's the point here.  If you have more football discussion to add, pray continue.

 

 

There is not a lie here.  Someone interpreted the man's comment as snarky.  He said that was not his intent.  You don't know him, you can't know his intent.   Take the man at his word absent conclusive contrary evidence, and derive your entertainment without insulting people gratuitously. 

 

That's not football discussion.

 

 

No one demanded "show me your board" when debating a topic/player.  The exact quote was "Ryan, can you explain to me your definition of BPA as well as your process for putting together a draft board?"

 

Explain the process.  Not "show me your board".

 

Since the claim @RyanC883 seems to be making (as I understand it, sorry guy don't mean to put words in your mouth!!) is that Beane didn't draft "BPA" because Epenesa and Basham fell, that question is entirely relevant to having a good football discussion about this.  If we don't understand how he thinks BPA is defined, and how draft boards are put together, it can't be discussed because there doesn't seem to be a shared understanding of terms.

 

We get that a lot around here with terms where people go back and forth for days and it turns out they define "Bust" or "Franchise QB" differently and that's the basis of the dispute.

 

When it comes to BPA, beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder. Also, the definition of "Best Player Available" really does not truly mean that literally -- but perhaps more along the lines of "Best Player Available at a position that it makes sense for the team to target". For example, the Bills would not be drafting a QB at #25 this year even if the best player on the board is, in fact, a QB. What BPA to me means is being flexible about the position rather than zeroing in on a specific position at the expense of quality. For example, the Bills could logically draft a CB, OL, WR, DL, TE, or RB there and rely on their scouts to direct them on which player is the best player and match for the team.

 

A couple of things about Boogie and Epenesa... For one, both players are still very young and the verdict is still out a bit on both -- even on Epenesa, who needs to take a major step forward in this, his 3rd season. Second, heading into both of the last 2 drafts conventional wisdom was that both of those players were borderline 1st rounders, so taking both at the end of the 2nd round seemed like good "value" at the time.

[BillsMafi$]

Got a hunch he’s going to the colts 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm glad to hear you prefer football discussion.  That's the point here.  If you have more football discussion to add, pray continue.

 

 

There is not a lie here.  Someone interpreted the man's comment as snarky.  He said that was not his intent.  You don't know him, you can't know his intent.   Take the man at his word absent conclusive contrary evidence, and derive your entertainment without insulting people gratuitously. 

 

That's not football discussion.

 

 

No one demanded "show me your board" when debating a topic/player.  The exact quote was "Ryan, can you explain to me your definition of BPA as well as your process for putting together a draft board?"

 

Explain the process.  Not "show me your board".

 

Since the claim @RyanC883 seems to be making (as I understand it, sorry guy don't mean to put words in your mouth!!) is that Beane didn't draft "BPA" because Epenesa and Basham fell, that question is entirely relevant to having a good football discussion about this.  If we don't understand how he thinks BPA is defined, and how draft boards are put together, it can't be discussed because there doesn't seem to be a shared understanding of terms.

 

We get that a lot around here with terms where people go back and forth for days and it turns out they define "Bust" or "Franchise QB" differently and that's the basis of the dispute.

 

 

We will have to agree to disagree on his intent.    

 

It is a fact that you don't know his intent any more than I.

 

Is that suitable for print? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 minutes ago, 2003Contenders said:

 

When it comes to BPA, beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder. Also, the definition of "Best Player Available" really does not truly mean that literally -- but perhaps more along the lines of "Best Player Available at a position that it makes sense for the team to target". For example, the Bills would not be drafting a QB at #25 this year even if the best player on the board is, in fact, a QB. What BPA to me means is being flexible about the position rather than zeroing in on a specific position at the expense of quality. For example, the Bills could logically draft a CB, OL, WR, DL, TE, or RB there and rely on their scouts to direct them on which player is the best player and match for the team.

 

A couple of things about Boogie and Epenesa... For one, both players are still very young and the verdict is still out a bit on both -- even on Epenesa, who needs to take a major step forward in this, his 3rd season. Second, heading into both of the last 2 drafts conventional wisdom was that both of those players were borderline 1st rounders, so taking both at the end of the 2nd round seemed like good "value" at the time.

 

I completely agree with your take on BPA and also that Boogie and Epenesa are still "verdict out", especially Boogie going into his 2nd year.

 

Epenesa, well, it seems as though the Bills asked him to undertake a body transformation that he's struggling with.  It may be he simply can't be the player they want him to be.

 

They may be misses - it happens.  Overall, something greater than 50% of players drafted in the first 3 rounds don't make it - and by "make it" I don't mean "become stars" I mean "become solid NFL players".

 

I think this  branch of the discussion started with the contention that Basham and Epenesa were not BPA to the Bills at the time that they were drafted because they fell "for a reason" and therefore Beane "messed up that draft"  For example this and this

 

Not working in the FO of a professional sports franchise myself, my knowledge is anecdotal, but the point I think people are trying to make is: that isn't how the process of evaluating players and building a draft board works.  The team doesn't (and shouldn't) look at the fact that a player is falling in the draft and say "oh, gee, what do those other FOs know that we don't, we better not take him". 

 

Naturally, different teams will rate different players somewhat differently because scouting isn't an exact science, and different teams assign different weights to athleticism vs. statistics vs. game observables vs. perceived character vs. medical concerns.  That's why some teams draft first rounders who do nothing in the league while other teams draft guys in the third to fifth round who light it up, regularly, every year.

 

There's always hindsight, where in retrospect a team is "yeah, we overlooked that" or "we thought we could coach up this aspect, we were wrong".

 

But in the present, at the draft, a player's grade is set and the board is made up well before the draft, and when a player starts 'standing out' as having a grade well above anyone else that is left, he is "BPA" and likely to be drafted (subject, of course, to your well-taken caveat that yes, teams do fudge their choice according to the team's needs)

 

So, yes, it can happen that a team mis-evaluates a player or that a player, due to injury or motivation or some other factor, doesn't live up to his billing.  But that doesn't mean he wasn't the team's "BPA" when he was drafted or that the GM "blew the draft", because no one gets it right 100%.

 

35 minutes ago, BillsMafi$ said:

Got a hunch he’s going to the colts 

 

Do you mean Chandler Jones?  'Cuz we're discussing Daquon Jones (among other guys) here, and he's publicly stated he's taking a contract from the Bills.

 

 

[Pete]

6 hours ago, HOUSE said:

Big savings here....he can punt too

 

And better than “shank”, our current P

[BullBuchanan]

The money we're giving this guy is insane. He's making more than Phillips got.

[ArtVandalay]

2 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

The money we're giving this guy is insane. He's making more than Phillips got.

This is much more than I anticipated. 

 

From 18-20 he had a 3 yr $21 MM contact he played out in Tennessee... last off season he signed in Carolina for 1 yr $4 MM... did he play that well to get this massive raise? 2yr for 14? 

 

Kind of head scratching.  This has a Mario Addisson overpay feel to it but I hope it works out, hard to gauge interior linemen.