If the Bills re-sign Edmunds, they're stupid.

[HamptonBillsfan]

3 minutes ago, balln said:

no he sucks. JFC this play highlights it. you can talk about what position he plays and scheme and players around him. blah blah blah. im talking about a football player 1 on 1 with an aging out of the league QB completely whiffffffingg

Your example proves nothing,just as a highlight reel of him running down backs and TEs sideline to sideline proves nothing. Blaming him for tackles missed by us over the 6 losses,even games he didn’t play in,is the mentality of fans that pile on players they don't like. Look at our overall run defense. Why single out one guy. What's the problem with blah, blah, and blah.

[balln]

8 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Your example proves nothing,just as a highlight reel of him running down backs and TEs sideline to sideline proves nothing. Blaming him for tackles missed by us over the 6 losses,even games he didn’t play in,is the mentality of fans that pile on players they don't like. Look at our overall run defense. Why single out one guy. What's the problem with blah, blah, and blah.

you just cant be helped. best wishes to you

[HamptonBillsfan]

27 minutes ago, balln said:

you just cant be helped. best wishes to you

One good game by Tremaine against NE, and you'll be on the bandwagon. I think the adjustments made by Frazier in the 2nd half will help Edmunds and our defense going forward. 

[Patrick Duffy]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said:

Edmunds has proved over and over again that his two good games a season doesn’t trump the garbage 14 games. We made a mistake drafting this guy, and a bigger mistake picking up his option. 
 

It’s time to admit fault and let him go this off-season, eat his full salary. We are a better team without him. 

Well they didn't with Ford unless it happens sometime after this season so that kinda tells me it will be same for Edmunds. 

[Nuncha]

I say make him an offer and if he holds out for more $ you let him walk.  I'm fine with him coming back, but he certainly should NOT be paid like an elite LB.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Azucho98

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

I had just held out hope the kid would turn the corner given his ridiculously young draft age, but a player needs to show some steady trajectory of improvement going into his 5th year.  You look at him, you see all that potential, the "Pro Bowl" nods, the fact that he HAS been the MLB of an upper-echelon unit, he is younger than guys getting drafted, and you kinda understand why it's hard for Beane/McJauron to really move on just yet.

 

All that said I would be looking to move on, and maybe franchise and trade if he's not on a 5th year option bc you can still sell somebody on this kid for all the reasons why this team still hasn't moved on from him.

[SoCal Deek]

These discussions give you some idea why it's so hard to be the GM of an NFL Team. As they say, this is a business.  Fans get way too attached to these players, cheering for them week after week. But, when you look back over the hundreds of plays that have made up the 2021 season, does anyone really think the Edmunds deserves big money?  You cannot tell me that he and his Agent don't know he's under the spotlight...and yet THIS is what we've seen from him?  We get a 13 page thread on whether to cut him?  That should tell you all you need to know. (While we're at it....does anyone think this Team has gotten anything out of Jerry Hughes this year? I sure don't!)

Edited December 15, 2021 by SoCal Deek

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

One good game by Tremaine against NE, and you'll be on the bandwagon. I think the adjustments made by Frazier in the 2nd half will help Edmunds and our defense going forward. 

....ok whatever you say Tremaine's cousin...

[HamptonBillsfan]

3 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

....ok whatever you say Tremaine's cousin...

He happens to be my favorite nephew. We're very proud. 

[Billy Zabka]

McBeane saw a young athletic freak with speed to go sideline to sideline, the height & wingspan to alter throwing lanes who was a solid guy and a hard worker.  Unfortuantely he is just not a quality MLB.  For all his personal and athletic positives he lacks the tackling, toughness, instincts, big play ability, and football smarts to be a good MLB.  

Edited December 15, 2021 by Billy Zabka

[Billy Zabka]

22 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Excellent in coverage. Excellent in getting fast to the edge on run downs. Has problems occasionally with run fits and needs to work on this but overall very solid in the run game.

 

Yup, there are people out there who don't see it.

 

Still true. It's not a coincidence that he's a captain, that they love him, that he's out there on every play they can possibly get him out there for, that he's a two-time Pro Bowler. Nor that the chances on him being re-signed - while it money is always a huge factor - are probably in the range of 70% - 90%.

Why do you feel Edmunds is "excellent" in coverage?  I simply don't see it.  His pff coverage grades last 4 years are poor.  I see a player that is constantly fooled by the qbs eyes in zone, misses a ton of tackles, and certainly doesn't get a lot of picks.  Tight Ends and Rbs and have eaten the Bills up since his arrival.

[1ManRaid]

On 12/12/2021 at 8:03 PM, 947 said:

Even the Edmund apologists on this board have to admit it after this game. There's no way anyone could look at the impact Devin White is making in the same game, and say that Tremaine is anything but a major liability.

 

But he did tip a pass today. And did I mention that he's still only 19 years old...

 

Ehhh...(sigh)...yeah...

 

When he's good, he's REALLY good.  But it's so inconsistently, it's feeling like his bouts of greatness are accidental when the match-up allows for it.  Considering he was drafted with Josh (another raw prospect), I think he's had long enough to "put it together".  At this point I'd rather just sign a vet and sacrifice Edmund's moments of brilliance for reliability that at least won't lose us more games than it wins.

[Gisele]

12 hours ago, Azucho98 said:

I say make him an offer and if he holds out for more $ you let him walk.  I'm fine with him coming back, but he certainly should NOT be paid like an elite LB.

There are only 53 spots on the team.  If he's signed that means one less football player on the team.  Just get rid of him and get someone that can play football.

[Pete]

Whos going to be D captain and play MLB for us next season then?  We have 3-5 holes at starting OL and need a RB1 for starters.  Let's not dig holes while trying to fill.  Lets not play whack a mole

[ehfeuh57]

There is also ZERO improvement week to week and year to year.

 

Having a "knack for the game" is a real thing and he doesnt have it.

[badassgixxer05]

He makes the same dumb mistakes as he did early on in his career. Big deal, hell no. Team friendly deal and id take him back.

[Fan in Chicago]

7 hours ago, Billy Zabka said:

.  For all his personal and athletic positives he lacks the tackling, toughness, instincts, big play ability, and football smarts to be a good MLB.  

The LB equivalent of McKelvin

[st pete gogolak]

Shouldn't the front office be studying how Dallas uses Micah Parsons?  ILB with 12 sacks already, drops in coverage as much as he rushes the passer.  Lock for DROY and in the running for DPOY.  Tell me Edmunds isn't at least in the same universe as Parsons athletically.  If we're going to go with more or less the same defensive personnel next year (money should be spent on the offensive side of the ball), we're going to have to be more imaginative on how we use our defensive personnel.  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Occasionally, the play lines up for him and he shoots the gap correctly and he uses his speed to close. 

 

But, he doesn't grade that well, and I agree with others, he seems to overrun the play constantly. 

 

We've said this from the beginning with him, the Bills are insistent that he plays MLB. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

The LB equivalent of McKelvin

Good analogy. Mckelvin was also an athletic freak who just never quite lived up to the athletic ability. That said he was retained for a while, was a decent starter and played on self aware contracts.

[LABILLBACKER]

17 hours ago, Buffalo619 said:

Edmunds has proved over and over again that his two good games a season doesn’t trump the garbage 14 games. We made a mistake drafting this guy, and a bigger mistake picking up his option. 
 

It’s time to admit fault and let him go this off-season, eat his full salary. We are a better team without him. 

Amen my brother 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

The Bills have always always always had issues with inside linebacker play.

 

No issue here upgrading Edmunds, or any other position for that matter, but I’d love to hear who that upgrade is going to be.

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

8 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

The Bills have always always always had issues with inside linebacker play.

 

No issue here upgrading Edmunds, or any other position for that matter, but I’d love to hear who that upgrade is going to be.

 

 

For the short term the team is stuck with Edmunds. It's doubtful Beane will find a trade partner for a reasonable draft pick. TE will likely play with us all next season. He will occasionally shine but mostly struggle as he has his entire career. I think temporarily Klein or Milano could be a mike but I think Dermott will be reluctant to move Matt.  Who the long term answer is I have no idea. Maybe they look at FA or draft someone in 23?  Trust me we all wanted Tremaine to be the next Keuckly but it wasn't meant to be. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Just now, LABILLBACKER said:

For the short term the team is stuck with Edmunds. It's doubtful Beane will find a trade partner for a reasonable draft pick. TE will likely play with us all next season. He will occasionally shine but mostly struggle as he has his entire career. I think temporarily Klein or Milano could be a mike but I think Dermott will be reluctant to move Matt.  Who the long term answer is I have no idea. Maybe they look at FA or draft someone in 23?  Trust me we all wanted Tremaine to be the next Keuckly but it wasn't meant to be. 

See colts game. NFW

[FilthyBeast]

If Beane is smart (he's obviously not) he'd trade Edmunds this offseason to a team that runs a 3-4 that understands he's a better fit there and can truly unlock whatever potential is being held back in Buffalo. Probably could get as high as a conditional 3rd rounder that could turn into a 2nd rounder in return.

 

Either way the debate is settled once and for all about who he is in Buffalo at MLB in this style defense and that's definitely not a guy worth the type of money that he can probably get on the open market after the 5th year option.

[Norcalbillsfan]

1 hour ago, st pete gogolak said:

Shouldn't the front office be studying how Dallas uses Micah Parsons?  ILB with 12 sacks already, drops in coverage as much as he rushes the passer.  Lock for DROY and in the running for DPOY.  Tell me Edmunds isn't at least in the same universe as Parsons athletically.  If we're going to go with more or less the same defensive personnel next year (money should be spent on the offensive side of the ball), we're going to have to be more imaginative on how we use our defensive personnel.  

Parsons has power, sheds blockers really well, and has good rush moves. Edmunds gets alot of hate, sometimes undeserved but there's no arguing he is below average at shedding blockers or putting a move on a pass blocker. He is only a successful Blitzer when he has a free lane and can use his speed to close on the qb. But even then how many missed arm tackles on athletic qbs have we seen from him? Seeing how we've seen how they use Klein to blitz and be successful tells me that mcd and Frazier know what Edmunds abilities are.

[John from Riverside]

7 minutes ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

Parsons has power, sheds blockers really well, and has good rush moves. Edmunds gets alot of hate, sometimes undeserved but there's no arguing he is below average at shedding blockers or putting a move on a pass blocker. He is only a successful Blitzer when he has a free lane and can use his speed to close on the qb. But even then how many missed arm tackles on athletic qbs have we seen from him? Seeing how we've seen how they use Klein to blitz and be successful tells me that mcd and Frazier know what Edmunds abilities are.

Yeah there is no denying that Parsons is better

[DCOrange]

I checked out of curiosity, Edmunds is currently rated the #45 LB out of 83 per PFF. That's the best ranking he's had in 4 years.

 

2018: 67/91

2019: 47/89

2020: 74/83

2021: 45/83

 

I've seen mentions of Devin White a lot; he's generally been worse per PFF. He does make the splash plays that Edmunds doesn't, but having watched almost every game of White's career; he too ends up out of place a ton, but he's surrounded by far better players in the front 7, including Lavonte David, who is as good a LB as anyone in the league.

 

Devin White:

2019: 67/89

2020: 62/83

2021: 74/83

 

My personal opinion: I assumed we would pick up Edmunds' option and I think we'll likely re-sign him but I disagree with both of those things. To me, he is the exact kind of luxury we can't really afford to keep on this team.

Edited December 15, 2021 by DCOrange

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

See colts game. NFW

The MLB FA pool this spring is terrible. 

[LabattBlue]

3 hours ago, st pete gogolak said:

Shouldn't the front office be studying how Dallas uses Micah Parsons?  ILB with 12 sacks already, drops in coverage as much as he rushes the passer.  Lock for DROY and in the running for DPOY.  Tell me Edmunds isn't at least in the same universe as Parsons athletically.  If we're going to go with more or less the same defensive personnel next year (money should be spent on the offensive side of the ball), we're going to have to be more imaginative on how we use our defensive personnel.  

The scheme is not the reason why Parsons and Edmunds are different players.  One is a super productive impact player and one isn’t.  It is all about talent. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by BTB

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

7 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

The MLB FA pool this spring is terrible. 

And the draft is always a crap shoot, although I had thought Queen would add juice to the defense … we got Diggs instead  which I can’t complain about. 
 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

20 minutes ago, BTB said:

The scheme is not the reason why Parson and Edmunds are different players.  One is a super productive impact player and one isn’t.  It is all about talent. 

So you think parsons would have 11 sacks playing middle linebacker? 

[Mat68]

21 minutes ago, BTB said:

The scheme is not the reason why Parson and Edmunds are different players.  One is a super productive impact player and one isn’t.  It is all about talent. 

I disagree.  They have Parsons attack.  He has little coverage responsibility outside designed plays.  I think Edmunds is a large factor in Buffalos overall coverage grades.  Routinely,  Buffalo is tops in the league vs the pass.  On the edge Parson is a beast and is the reason for his impactful plays.  

[LabattBlue]

4 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

So you think parsons would have 11 sacks playing middle linebacker? 

Probably not because he wouldn’t be rushing the passer as much, but I have seen enough of Edmunds blitzes over the last few years to know that I can guarantee that if he was an OLB he wouldn’t be anywhere near 11 sacks. 

[Scott7975]

Edmunds is good depth but he isn’t a good starter. Frequently out of position. Can’t get off blocks. Actually takes on blocks when he doesn’t need to. Watches the receiver run by him in his zone and just sits there until said receiver catches the ball. Even when he gets in position to make a play frequently miffs. Makes a play once in a blue moon and a bunch of people scream “see I told you he’s good!”

 

I still think picking up his option was the right move but a big long term contract likely isn’t. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Scott7975

[vincec]

22 hours ago, st pete gogolak said:

Like many, many posters on this board, I feel that Edmunds could be more effective playing a different position but I'm not sure what that position would be - OLB in a 4-3?  ILB in a 3-4?  Old timers on the board may remember David Fulcher from the Cincinnati Bengals' glory days in the late 80's.  Linebacker size, played safety and kind of created havoc all over the field.  Kind of like a rover or monster man in college football.  Maybe you could use Edmunds creatively in that type of role.  Whatever you do with Edmunds, I'd love an LB who can be a run-plugger up the middle.  Not necessarily an every down player but someone we could play against run-heavy teams, Colts, Pats, etc.

I don’t see any 3-4 LB position he can play. He’s not nearly a good enough pass rusher to play 3-4 OLB and not physical enough for a 3-4 ILB. He’s a 4-3 LB and the way the Bills use their LBs he plays OLB a lot already so switching him won’t be that big a difference. Not to mention that Milano is way better than him and they only play 1 OLB 90% of the time. He obviously can’t cover well enough to be a safety in this defense. Just look at the OT play.

 

He is what he is: a slightly above average 4-3 LB VS the pass and slightly below average VS the run.

Edited December 15, 2021 by vincec

[SoCal Deek]

2 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

The Bills have always always always had issues with inside linebacker play.

 

No issue here upgrading Edmunds, or any other position for that matter, but I’d love to hear who that upgrade is going to be.

 

 

London Fletcher begs to differ.

[st pete gogolak]

46 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

So you think parsons would have 11 sacks playing middle linebacker? 

That's what he is, isn't it?  Doesn't Dallas play a 4-3 and he's the Mike.

[Billl]

53 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

And the draft is always a crap shoot, although I had thought Queen would add juice to the defense … we got Diggs instead  which I can’t complain about. 
 

 

Queen is the most overrated LB in the league.  I don't think Edmunds is great, but the more I watch the more I think it's a function of the system he plays in.  When you play a base nickel and your MLB is more of a coverage guy than a run suffer, he's going to struggle.

 

Part of me thinks that they're willing to live with his mistakes because that's just the cost of doing business when you're running McDermott's scheme.  Not everybody is going to be Luke Kuechly, so you do your best with a great athlete and know he's going to look really bad at times because you're asking too much of your MLB.

[billrooter]

3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

The Bills have always always always had issues with inside linebacker play.

 

No issue here upgrading Edmunds, or any other position for that matter, but I’d love to hear who that upgrade is going to be.

 

 

Conlan, Fletcher, Spielman, and Cowart (pre Injury) disagree with you.

Edited December 15, 2021 by billrooter