Is it worth seeing if Antonio Williams should get a shot?

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

Cool, can we fire them and bring in Vrabel ? 

No

[Billzgobowlin]

12 hours ago, Lothar said:

I mean at this point our running game is pretty ineffective. And McDermott is pretty good about giving guys the hook if they aren't producing. Maybe choose between Singletary and Moss as the 3rd down back and give Williams a shot. He's bigger and can't be much worse at this point. Our OL is what it is.

 

Otherwise the running option changes we could try seen to be limited to more jet sweeps - or the threat of jet sweeps - at least a half dozen times a game with McKenzie or Breida.

Please no more Brieda.  If anything was evident on Monday was that Brieda can't be trusted to take a handoff.   The coaching staff seems to think Antonio doesn't give more than what Singletary or Moss have.  I think the issue with the running game is not the runners but the interior line.  They don't know how to anchor and push the pile.  Oh what I wouldn't give to have Incognito on this line right now.  We have no mean streak and that line is soft.

[Pags24]

I'm with most of the group here, the OL is the bigger issue.  No doubt.  That being said, I'd like to see Williams get a chance.  What's the worst that can happen?

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

11 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

...and raise you a Christian Wade.

Christian Wade?!?

*
🎵Chris-tee-ann Wade!!🎶

 

 

[Mark Vader]

If bringing up Williams equates to Moss being inactive, then fine, do it.

 

I would still rather see Singletary getting the majority of carries. He actually gets yardage, unlike Moss.

 

Use Brieda as a change of pace back and extra receiver.

[billieve420]

I can see the O-line coach getting the axe once we hit the offseason. McDermott has not been shy with making changes with those in charge of under performing units.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Reported.  Covid vaccination status is not to be discussed outside appropriate threads and/or forums.

[BassToMouth]

I said this in the game thread. Williams definitely should get some reps. He’s a total package physically. Let’s see if he can take advantage of an opportunity 

5 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Reported.  Covid vaccination status is not to be discussed outside appropriate threads and/or forums.

Only if you have the right opinion on it. 

[Motorin']

47 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

If bringing up Williams equates to Moss being inactive, then fine, do it.

 

I would still rather see Singletary getting the majority of carries. He actually gets yardage, unlike Moss.

 

Use Brieda as a change of pace back and extra receiver.

 

Singletary may have taken some of those Red Zone runs to the house where Moss refused to turn it outside. 

[dpberr]

Don't stop at Antonio Williams.  I'd be shaking the trees for new legs at RB because you know what you've got and it's not doing much.  Tryouts are  lottery scratch offs.

 

  

[Trogdor]

13 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Other teams runnin' bax miss holes all the time too.

 

Behind a good run blocking line, where the hole will be is often a pre-snap read for a RB...........for the Bills,  it's all post snap because they rarely execute their assignments as they are drawn up.

 

Moss is too slow for outside zone for me.    I wouldn't have him out there.   Singletary is clearly their best back.   Breida is the most explosive but it's now abundantly clear why he was available so cheap in UFA.   He's really dumb.   One mental error after the next.   That's why he's bounced around and played sparingly in Miami and Buffalo despite that talent.  

Singletary has 2 more fumbles on 50 less carries. I wouldnt say Breida is having any more mental errors than the rest of the team. I can't really think of what else you might be pointing to though.

[Shaw66]

16 hours ago, Lothar said:

I mean at this point our running game is pretty ineffective. And McDermott is pretty good about giving guys the hook if they aren't producing. Maybe choose between Singletary and Moss as the 3rd down back and give Williams a shot. He's bigger and can't be much worse at this point. Our OL is what it is.

 

Otherwise the running option changes we could try seen to be limited to more jet sweeps - or the threat of jet sweeps - at least a half dozen times a game with McKenzie or Breida.

If he'd shown anything in practice, he would already have been on the roster.   

 

And the running backs aren't the problem.  It's the line and the schemes.   Either the line isn't talented enough to block the schemes, or the schemes aren't good enough to create opportunities, or both. 

[par73]

At this point, it seems like an obvious move.

[BADOLBILZ]

58 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Singletary has 2 more fumbles on 50 less carries. I wouldnt say Breida is having any more mental errors than the rest of the team. I can't really think of what else you might be pointing to though.

 

Pay a little closer attention.     The worst hit Allen has taken all season was an impossibly stupid play where Breida ran right past a blitzer he was responsible for.   Then he had a play last week that he blew in the red zone by going in motion to the wrong side of the field.    Then against NE he just forgot how to physically accept a handoff.    That's an exceptional amount of egregious mental mistakes for the few snaps he's played.    There is a difference between improperly executing assignments and missing them entirely.     It's discouraging because he is a really explosive player with his hands on the football and a good fit for an outside zone team.   

 

 

 

 

[Maine-iac]

 ....... remember when we had Glenn, Incognito, and Woods on the left side?  That's a line you can run behind.  Miller and Mills were a little more forgettable but I bet Miller is better than Ford.  All that said I think the run game is not well coached from an execution standpoint.  I am not even sure if it's bad play design because frequently it just seems like bad execution and players that can't block the run more than the actual play itself being bad.

[T master]

Motor and Williams or Gilliam would be a good back field .

[Nextmanup]

17 hours ago, ClemsonBills said:

One thing this regime has proven is they are sub par talent evaluators 

And yet they pulled Josh Allen out of a big QB talent pool that year, and that proved to be the correct choice.

 

The problem is their talent evaluation hasn't been consistent enough.

 

They've made some big mistakes at key positions, and it has directly impacted where the team is at this time.

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

17 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Guarantee McD wants a RB in the first come April…. 

Then he's the idiot we all were afraid he might be. I'd spend the first 3 picks on OL. Then maybe a fast RB falls in the 4th. Also consider FA for a better version of Breida. Cut Moss and use Singletary for one last year.

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

And yet they pulled Josh Allen out of a big QB talent pool that year, and that proved to be the correct choice.

 

The problem is their talent evaluation hasn't been consistent enough.

 

They've made some big mistakes at key positions, and it has directly impacted where the team is at this time.

 

 

They've hit HR's with qb & wr.  Yet dribblers back to the mound on OL & RB. Maybe the scouts in charge of those positions just suck.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

22 hours ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

Totally, the wrong call!

 

We ain’t in 1960 anymore! Get an even bigger, faster WR or TE or both. The idea is not to slow Allen down with running trash when he’s putting up 30-40 passes.

 

RBs are for screens and none of these has been worth a damn! Let alone, a Draft pick.

 

Month back I'd have been more in favor of this as thinking the Bills may be picking around #30 so a RB then isn't so bad.  But now looking more like picking in low 20's so agree don't pick a RB then.

[Breakout Squad]

22 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Their personnel / talent decisions have been bad dating back to Petermen.

If it’s that bad why are we consistently winning since McD and then Beane took over? My opinion is that they are not bad but pretty darn good actually. Every team misses on players. 

[LeGOATski]

16 minutes ago, Breakout Squad said:

If it’s that bad why are we consistently winning since McD and then Beane took over? My opinion is that they are not bad but pretty darn good actually. Every team misses on players. 

Yes.

 

This isn't the drought era Bills with entire draft classes failing out I'm 3 years. The misses are going to happen.

 

The running issues are on BOTH the line and the backs. We all saw Moss miss what looked like a TD when all he had to do was cut it outside. That's a simple read. These guys just aren't good.

 

I'd activate AW if I were them, but still start Breida or Singletary.

[Breakout Squad]

1 minute ago, LeGOATski said:

Yes.

 

This isn't the drought era Bills with entire draft classes failing out I'm 3 years. The misses are going to happen.

 

The running issues are on BOTH the line and the backs. We all saw Moss miss what looked like a TD when all he had to do was cut it outside. That's a simple read. These guys just aren't good.

 

I'd activate AW if I were them, but still start Breida or Singletary.

I’m of the opinion the lack of a run game is because our O line has regressed. Moss has been a huge disappointment. Singletary is pretty good but he has to work on fumbling. If Beane doesn’t address the OL early in the draft it will be the same story. Spencer Brown seems like a great pick up for the 3rd round. We need to keep investing in the line. 

[WyoAZBillfan]

Yes in last years play off games, possibly after the first practice of preseason or whenever the play called for power, or not running into a Bill lineman’s backside.

[Nelius]

Yes, I don't know why anybody would be opposed to this. Agreed that it's typically blocking first and if you can block, anybody can run, but a hungry back can always surprise. He had 2 TDs and 5 ypc in garbage time against Miami last year, that's good enough for me considering the alternatives. Let's see what he can do. 

[Spiderweb]

2 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Yes.

 

This isn't the drought era Bills with entire draft classes failing out I'm 3 years. The misses are going to happen.

 

The running issues are on BOTH the line and the backs. We all saw Moss miss what looked like a TD when all he had to do was cut it outside. That's a simple read. These guys just aren't good.

 

I'd activate AW if I were them, but still start Breida or Singletary.

Brenda? No... Give Williams a shot. Period.

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, Breakout Squad said:

If it’s that bad why are we consistently winning since McD and then Beane took over? My opinion is that they are not bad but pretty darn good actually. Every team misses on players. 

Because when you hit a HR on a superstar qb, it can mask other deficiencies. Picking Josh was so over the top amazing that we tend to give Beane a pass on other semi-failed high picks. We knew wholeheartedly last season the OL was an issue,  but JA's 13-3 heroics allowed McB to "run it back" with basically the same roster. Now I think they probably wish they had focused a little more on the OL. Not all their picks have been bad but I would say if you're dealing with 1-3 rounds since 2018, it's 50-50.

[BananaB]

I don’t think it matters at this point, it’s not gonna happen though. Staff can’t judge talent at RB, that’s why we have these two slugs in the first place. At the same time maybe you gotta look at Dabol, McCoy had 5 straight pro bowl appearances before he showed up. 

[Estro]

Very simply put, yes.

 

He showed something in last years week 17 game.  Zack Moss has been well below replacement level at the position, so what do we have to lose.

 

Moss shouldn't see a uniform for the rest of the season, and I'd split the carries like this:

 

Breida: 50%

Singletary: 30%

Williams: 20%

 

Bump Williams up some if he shows you something.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Estro

[T master]

On 12/7/2021 at 9:25 PM, Lothar said:

I mean at this point our running game is pretty ineffective. And McDermott is pretty good about giving guys the hook if they aren't producing. Maybe choose between Singletary and Moss as the 3rd down back and give Williams a shot. He's bigger and can't be much worse at this point. Our OL is what it is.

 

Otherwise the running option changes we could try seem to be limited to more jet sweeps - or the threat of jet sweeps - at least a half dozen times a game with McKenzie or Breida.

 

If it's broke anything is worth a shot hell bring back Shady that's even worth a shot in my eyes if he can give our offense the kick in the ass it needs to put them back on the winning track to start stacking wins i'm all for it .

 

I would leave Moss inactive and use the 2 bigger backs that we have on the team both Williams & Gilliam and use them in multiple ways to see what & where they're use is best for the offense .

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

On the bills Facebook pages they keep showing vague hints that this guy might actually be active Sunday. It is absolutely not a solid source but. I don’t know what we’d have to lose at this point. The guys we are trying no aren’t getting it done. I’d rather not just assume it’s the line and not at least attempt another guy.

[BADOLBILZ]

On 12/8/2021 at 1:57 AM, LABILLBACKER said:

Calling Devin our best back is like saying he's the most fragrant turd. All 3 are gone next year. 

 

 

Singletary is fine running the ball.   Career 4.7 ypc on 415 carries.  His fumbling has just been out of control this season.  

 

I doubt all of them will be gone next season but there will be changes.    But put these RB's behind some more OL talent...........and switch to more inside zone, pin and pull blocking like they used prior to McDermott getting here and we could see an instant transformation to a consistently excellent run game.    

 

Easy to forget that the a line with Wood and Glenn was seen as unredeemable garbage under Marrone with his man-blocking,  run CJ Spiller up-the-gut style..........Eric Wood was so bad in that system that even he thought he might get cut by the team..........but a year later they added Incognito and two scrubs in Miller and Mills and then lead the league in both rushing and big plays on offense (with an incredible amount of long runs).   And that was also the season when LeSean McCoy missed every gotdamn hole and played like a JAG.    

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Estro said:

Very simply put, yes.

 

He showed something in last years week 17 game.  Zack Moss has been well below replacement level at the position, so what do we have to lose.

 

Moss shouldn't see a uniform for the rest of the season, and I'd split the carries like this:

 

Breida: 50%

Singletary: 30%

Williams: 20%

 

Bump Williams up some if he shows you something.

 

 

I'm for benching Moss and incorporating Williams.

 

For most of last season the OL wasn't blocking it up well for the run either and eventually Moss in particular started anticipating missed blocks and it really slowed down his decision making.    Would-be 8 yard runs were turning into 3 yard runs.  It was very evident in that finale against the Dolphins when Moss was leaving yards on the field and enter Williams and he just ran hard to where the hole should be and it paid off.    They aren't blocking it up well enough for Williams to get much done......certainly not against Tampa........but it's time for Moss to grab some pine, IMO.

[SCBills]

Assuming Gilliam is back, we'd probably just have Singletary and Breida active.  I'd rather see what Williams and Breida can do.  Singletary just goes down too easily when nothing is there, which is most of the time.  Maybe Williams can make 2nd and 10 become 2nd and 7.   Moss is useless right now.  

[dave mcbride]

18 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Then he's the idiot we all were afraid he might be. I'd spend the first 3 picks on OL. Then maybe a fast RB falls in the 4th. Also consider FA for a better version of Breida. Cut Moss and use Singletary for one last year.

They've hit HR's with qb & wr.  Yet dribblers back to the mound on OL & RB. Maybe the scouts in charge of those positions just suck.

With the caveat that you gotta take a great player if he's there, I think they should go as follows:

1 - C/G

2 - RB (Mixon type or one who is a legit good receiver to give Allen a guy he can have faith in)

3 - DT (not expecting much in the way of pass rush in the third round, but a monster guy who can hold the point of attack

4 - G or CB (whoever is the better prospect)

5 - G or CB (whoever is the better prospect, again)

6 - S

6 - LB

7 - WR 

7 - G

 

[LeGOATski]

11 hours ago, Spiderweb said:

Brenda? No... Give Williams a shot. Period.

Fine with me. But I wouldn't activate only 2 backs.

[LeGOATski]

9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

With the caveat that you gotta take a great player if he's there, I think they should go as follows:

1 - C/G

2 - RB (Mixon type or one who is a legit good receiver to give Allen a guy he can have faith in)

3 - DT (not expecting much in the way of pass rush in the third round, but a monster guy who can hold the point of attack

4 - G or CB (whoever is the better prospect)

5 - G or CB (whoever is the better prospect, again)

6 - S

6 - LB

7 - WR 

7 - G

 

I'm a big proponent of the RAS grade for RBs. 

 

It seems widely accepted by the NFL (including this regime) that RBs are a dime a dozen. So use later round picks, but make em guys with high RAS. 49ers did that with Sermon and Mitchell this year.

 

Use the high picks for the lines, quality linemen are harder to come by.

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, LeGOATski said:

I'm a big proponent of the RAS grade for RBs. 

 

It seems widely accepted by the NFL (including this regime) that RBs are a dime a dozen. So use later round picks, but make em guys with high RAS. 49ers did that with Sermon and Mitchell this year.

 

Use the high picks for the lines, quality linemen are harder to come by.

I get that, but if there is that guy in the low to mid-50s -- e.g., a Jonathan Stewart type -- they should take him. Bear in mind that I have us drafting a lot of interior linemen here, including in round 1. Having said this, I have no idea what the RB talent is in college right now.

[LABILLBACKER]

13 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Yes.

 

This isn't the drought era Bills with entire draft classes failing out I'm 3 years. The misses are going to happen.

 

The running issues are on BOTH the line and the backs. We all saw Moss miss what looked like a TD when all he had to do was cut it outside. That's a simple read. These guys just aren't good.

 

I'd activate AW if I were them, but still start Breida or Singletary.

Completely agree. Let Singletary be your semi serviceable RB1.  Give Breida one more chance at redemption. If he screws up then he's done. Activate Williams immediately. I know our OL blocking is pathetic and there's few gaps if any at all. But we have to try everything. Moss is probably done.

[Buffalo03]

On 12/7/2021 at 11:26 PM, Billsatlastin2018 said:

Totally, the wrong call!

 

We ain’t in 1960 anymore! Get an even bigger, faster WR or TE or both. The idea is not to slow Allen down with running trash when he’s putting up 30-40 passes.

 

RBs are for screens and none of these has been worth a damn! Let alone, a Draft pick.

I have thought this for many years but I don't care anymore. If there is a really good back there when we pick, go get him. If we need to trade up for one, go get him. I can't take this running game anymore. It's killing us

[LABILLBACKER]

29 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

With the caveat that you gotta take a great player if he's there, I think they should go as follows:

1 - C/G

2 - RB (Mixon type or one who is a legit good receiver to give Allen a guy he can have faith in)

3 - DT (not expecting much in the way of pass rush in the third round, but a monster guy who can hold the point of attack

4 - G or CB (whoever is the better prospect)

5 - G or CB (whoever is the better prospect, again)

6 - S

6 - LB

7 - WR 

7 - G

 

This is an excellent draft sequence.