Did McDermott all but admit there will be coaching changes on the offensive side of the ball?

[Gisele]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's astounding how far their OL has fallen off of a cliff from last year.

 

I knew they were middling in the middle.........but they have gone from that to terrible this season.    Feliciano has been a bust after losing a bunch of weight and apparently power and then getting injured again.   Boettger went from promising long term backup type to garbage.   And I have long been critical of him, but can't even believe how Cody Ford has managed to regress.

 

And the tackles..........Williams has been atrocious at RT after being excellent there last season.    I could see a drop-off but this can only be explained by a lack of preparation and want-to.

 

The other tackles:   Dawkins f*cked around and ended up nearly dying from Covid and has subsequently been a weakened and inconsistent version of himself.    Then Brown misses games after passing on the vax. 

 

The OL is a prime example of what can happen when you promise love and trust in a sport that has survived on fear and accountability as the primary motivators for all of its existence.

Last year we used lot's of motion and the Jet Sweep was in the game plan.  Something has happened in the office that has caused us to dumb down our offensive game plans.  

[BADOLBILZ]

51 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think there are weeks this year when this board has given Josh an undeserved pass when he has been part of the problem. But last night Josh Allen was excellent. One poor sack aside he played an excellent game. If Dawson Knox catches either of the third down conversions that hit him right in the hands, or Diggs catches a touchdown that for a player of his ability is a gimme or Brieda manages to take a routine handoff, or Knox manages not to false start..... 

 

This was not on Josh. 

 

 

 

Allen was outstanding last night.    

 

As much as I'd be happy that we won if I were a Pats fan...........I would have come away from that game a little discouraged knowing that my long term solution at QB is likely Mac Jones in a division with Josh Allen in it.    Allen was far better last night than he was in that Ravens playoff game last season in similar wind conditions.

[Gisele]

Just now, Gisele said:

Last year we used lot's of motion and the Jet Sweep was in the game plan.  Something has happened in the office that has caused us to dumb down our offensive game plans.  

And Williams looked lazy last night

[GETTOTHE50]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

I think I'd rather keep Daboll and get rid of McDermott, if there is a rift growing between them.

 

The future is passing, not running, and it has nothing to do with "toughness" whatsoever.

 

 

As much as I don’t like McDermott, he’s still not as much of a bum like daboll 

[MAJBobby]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBill said:

“We’re gonna try our darndest to fix it. It’s tough. I’m not gonna sit up here and lie to you guys. To fix that part of your game this time of year is tough,” he said. “That’s why we try like heck to do it in training camp. That’s where you develop the toughness of the football team. That’s why we run the football in training camp.”

 

Sean McDermott quoted by Matt Parrino 

 

Clearly, he is not very happy with what Bobby Johnson and Brian Dabol have done with the run game.  To me this is an astounding statement from a head coach who was supposedly going to make a Super Bowl appearance this year.  

 

It would seem almost obvious that Johnson is as good as gone at the end of the year and Dabol may also be very much on the hot seat. What a change given Dabol was to be heading towards a HC’ing job at the end of this season. 

If he takes this offense back to the Stone Age. I will be calling for his head. 
 

how about he FIND his ***** spine and stop coaching scared. 

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, atomicpwrd said:

I was praying Daboll was going to get picked up as a HC last year...he has an occasional well called game, but they are few and far between.  Those that don't think you need a run game are delusional and have not been paying attention this year.  You need to force the defense to defend the ENTIRE field to be successful on offense.  Josh can't do it all himself...a run game would take some of the pressure off...

How's this for a stat- Allen played in 1 game with a 100 yard rusher, Motor in 2019. ONE GAME 2 years ago!!😡😡😡😡

 

 

You can't make this stuff up. Passing O or not this is Ridiculous that our run gm is this bad , even with a dynamic pass game. Imagine 17 with a respectable run game? He'd be MVP every year.. 

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

What if Josh says he wants Daboll?

 

too damm bad.  Josh has won nothing and cant be picking OC’s. 

[MAJBobby]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

I think I'd rather keep Daboll and get rid of McDermott, if there is a rift growing between them.

 

The future is passing, not running, and it has nothing to do with "toughness" whatsoever.

 

 

I understand this statement. I am the same. I want the modern offense and if we go back to a Run First run heavy offense and play defense wanting to win games 17-14. With a Stud 1/4B QB. I am done with McD and will be calling for his job. 

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Allen was outstanding last night.    

 

As much as I'd be happy that we won if I were a Pats fan...........I would have come away from that game a little discouraged knowing that my long term solution at QB is likely Mac Jones in a division with Josh Allen in it.    Allen was far better last night than he was in that Ravens playoff game last season in similar wind conditions.

 

The Bills were the better team last night. That would worry me as a Pats fan. If the Bills make any of about 5 or 6 routine plays in the game (and I mean routine plays not 'that woulda taken something special but he had a chance' type plays) the Bills win. If they make 2 or 3 of them they win going away. 

 

This wasn't a win for Belichick's coaching (as much as I totally subscribe to him as the goat). It was a win gifted by the Bills screwing up some basic, basic plays. Block, catch, tackle. 

 

As Chan Gailey once said "plays are more fun that fundamentals. Fundamentals are more important than plays."

[Fallsnative01]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Baldy just posted some plays on Twitter. The entire OL gets zero push. We lose double teams, LB’s beat down our OG’s, and we don’t move the LoS at all. 
 

Daboll calls HB dives because if we execute, we get 4 and if we don’t, we get 1 or 2. If you start running traps and counters and tosses and other slow developing run plays, we will get -4. I take 2nd and 9 over 2nd and 14 all day every day.

 

Team is fundamentally flawed. There is no one on the OL that should be safe next year. Maybe Spencer Brown.

Thank you! Well stated. The OL is garbage, period. And we MUST be able to effectively run the ball if we want to win! If you cant run you are one dimensional (see Buffalo Bills) which means teams can put up 3 or 4 DL against your trash OL, stop your run game and put pressure on your QB. I cant understand how so many Bills fans cant accept that a decent run game is necessary for the passing game to be effective. oh, and having an OL that can pass block and run block well too. 

1 hour ago, BBills_88 said:

Daboll has not been consistent since the passing of his grandparents. 

I said the same thing last night. 

[Nuncha]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

I think I'd rather keep Daboll and get rid of McDermott, if there is a rift growing between them.

 

The future is passing, not running, and it has nothing to do with "toughness" whatsoever.

 

 

Daboll is the master of the "one dimensional offense".  Yea lets keep him so we don't run the ball in BUFFALO.  Did you happen to watch how the Patriots beat us?  It's kind of important to have a solid run game in BUFFALO, even if you have a QB with a rocket arm.  So there will never be bad weather games again in the future in buffalo since the future is "passing"? LMAO.  You need BALANCE to have a good offense in the NFL.  Run game is all about toughness and this O line is as soft as a baby's a$$ right now.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Azucho98

[MAJBobby]

You want to fix the run game McSpineless feed Brieda and Singletary. Nah Bench him in the 1st for a fumble. That will do it. 
 

also you have a weapon running the ball McSpineless in 17 but you don’t want him running either. 
 

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by MAJBobby

[Ramza86]

You cant coach a crappy line. 

 

How are they trying to put blame on scheme when they dont have the personnel for a good rushing attack?

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

If he takes this offense back to the Stone Age. I will be calling for his head. 
 

how about he FIND his ***** spine and stop coaching scared. 

 

They don't need to go back to the stone age.    They need to be able to get under center,  utilize play action and let Allen beat teams over the top.   Offenses like that have produced some of the highest point totals in NFL history.    Like they looked in the Jets game.   That's not really how they are built though.    They are built to run a spread offense and get the ball out quick,   which leaves you vulnerable to a myriad of mistakes and negates the advantage of having such a gifted thrower of the football.    

 

Wouldn't take a lot of expensive changes to become that team.    Not sure wicky-wacky Daboll is the right guy to call that offense though.

[LabattBlue]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

What if Josh says he wants Daboll?

The inmates don’t run the asylum! 😉

[whorlnut]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

What if Josh says he wants Daboll?

Does Josh want a ring?

[LabattBlue]

1 hour ago, Kellyhero68 said:

OLC Bobby Johnson needs to go along with every guard on the team. Sign one or two above average guards and draft at least two more. 

…and they can take Morse with them. 

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

go watch the Pittsburgh game week 1…. That’s what happens when defenses play the pass and dare your team to the run the football.  

People forget that Pitts absolutely wrecked the bills o line with 3 and 4 man pass rushes.

 

That was the biggest issue.

 

Sure you need to run a bit and keep teams off balanced.

 

But if the line would have just played average in pass pro, they would have crushed Pittsburgh 

[Believer]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think this is a very prevalent question. 

 

Personally if McDermott wants to ask questions about the run game the first person he should be asking is his buddy in the GM chair. We lead the league in running back fumbles. All three of those players we brought in by Beane. Our interior line couldn't push cotton candy. They were all acquired by Beane. I put the redzone struggles somewhat at Daboll's door. It is something he has been good at the past two years but a combination of teams keying in on tendencies and some odd choices of calls at times have hurt them (though so has execution). 

 

The struggles in the run game...... IT. IS. PERSONNEL. If anyone thinks swapping out an OL coach or an OC but running it back with these players would change anything they are kidding themselves. The run game wasn't good last year when our offense was breaking records. Was it still the OC and the OL coach's fault then? Or is it two years of the same average and poor players on the interior of the offensive line and the average to below average running backs. 

 

 

Both our OL and Running Backs are small by todays standards… This is on Beane, his scouts, and his recent draft picks…

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

They don't need to go back to the stone age.    They need to be able to get under center,  utilize play action and let Allen beat teams over the top.   Offenses like that have produced some of the highest point totals in NFL history.    Like they looked in the Jets game.   That's not really how they are built though.    They are built to run a spread offense and get the ball out quick,   which leaves you vulnerable to a myriad of mistakes and negates the advantage of having such a gifted thrower of the football.    

 

Wouldn't take a lot of expensive changes to become that team.    Not sure wicky-wacky Daboll is the right guy to call that offense though.

so want to run ball McSpineless then why did you not do a damn thing in the offseason to address that. But hey you did get your premier picks on defense. 
 

no RB in the 3rd or later. Not premier OL. But glad you double dipped at DE to give them 20% or so snaps a game (when your 2nd rounder is even active). 

[Billsflyer12]

3 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Does Josh want a ring?

Daboll has 5 Super Bowl rings and 1 college National Championship ring, McD has none.  Just saying.

[LabattBlue]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

so want to run ball McSpineless then why did you not do a damn thing in the offseason to address that. But hey you did get your premier picks on defense. 
 

no RB in the 3rd or later. Not premier OL. But glad you double dipped at DE to give them 20% or so snaps a game (when your 2nd rounder is even active). 

Yeah…but look at that awesome DL rotation. No one sits their best players more than Frazier/McD. 😂

[whorlnut]

5 minutes ago, Billsflyer12 said:

Daboll has 5 Super Bowl rings and 1 college National Championship ring, McD has none.  Just saying.

You have to be kidding me. This is your logic????  Hahahahahha. 

[HappyDays]

7 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

They don't need to go back to the stone age.    They need to be able to get under center,  utilize play action and let Allen beat teams over the top.   Offenses like that have produced some of the highest point totals in NFL history.    Like they looked in the Jets game.

 

I don't understand why we tried a whole new offense for one game, found immediate success with it, and then went back to the same offense that defenses figured out. Allen looked great throwing from under center. Breida gave us a legitimate running game. McKenzie jet sweeps kept the defense off balance - that seems like a good safe play to run in windy conditions. What was the point of using all of those wrinkles only against our worst opponent of the year? It's bizarre.

 

I had a bad feeling about this game when I saw McKenzie and Stevenson both inactive and Moss active. Daboll keeps calling the same plays that never work and forgetting about the plays that have been successful. 

[LABILLBACKER]

Last year this organization of McDermott and Beane knew they were deficient in OL/RB. They got so caught up in the KC/ Mahomes narrative that they went DE on the first 2 picks.  So far these 2 plus AJ have not proven strong enough to stop the run. We needed to mix our picks better. Or at least make better decisions on FA's. Now they're basically forced to go 80% OL in this upcoming draft. And who knows where we'll get a competent RB?

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, whorlnut said:

You have to be kidding me. This is your logic????  Hahahahahha. 

McD is only a couple games over .500. That is my logic and he has regressed in all aspects of HC this year. But hey he ended the drought but that goodwill is gone for me. 

[whorlnut]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

McD is only a couple games over .500. That is my logic and he has regressed in all aspects of HC this year. But hey he ended the drought but that goodwill is gone for me. 

Anyone with a pulse can see that Daboll has become stagnant and bullish on play calls in critical situations. He keeps calling run plays after we have a big pass play and it sets us up for second and long. 

[Billsflyer12]

3 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

You have to be kidding me. This is your logic????  Hahahahahha. 

So If Josh wants a ring your logic is he should choose the one with 0 over the one with 6?

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Anyone with a pulse can see that Daboll has become stagnant and bullish on play calls in critical situations. He keeps calling run plays after we have a big pass play and it sets us up for second and long. 

I wonder why?  When you listen to McD after this game it could be forced. He has made it KNOWN how much he wants to run the ball. 
 

where is the 2020 stagnant offense as you claim. This isn’t close to the 2020 offense with plays or route concepts or anything like that. What changed besides McSpineless “toughness” “I want to run the ball better not rely on Josh’s arm”. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by MAJBobby

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

so want to run ball McSpineless then why did you not do a damn thing in the offseason to address that. But hey you did get your premier picks on defense. 
 

no RB in the 3rd or later. Not premier OL. But glad you double dipped at DE to give them 20% or so snaps a game (when your 2nd rounder is even active). 

 

 

As many of us said in frustration last offseason.........they were clearly just trying to "run it back".

 

But I've never deviated that I hate the spread.   Allen can make it work to some extent but this is not the way to use him.

 

With the exception of Morse,  who has been about exactly as expected..........every OL that has gotten significant snaps has either been extremely disappointing or has been too often unavailable(Brown).

 

That's the issue with their running game.    They could use a better lead running back but if they were simply blocking it up their running game would be a positive.   Very few things have been proven more right than not needing a stud RB to run the football.    Look at the street trash that TN picked up to put 270 yards on the Pats a week ago.   Block and it will look like you have good RB's.

 

As for drafting DE's.........I loved Rousseau,  didn't like the Basham pick.    But that position is something of a long term play.   I suspect Rousseau has had a foot injury that's hampered him since the KC game and he's only played one college season so not surprised if he's hit a wall as well.    I have to admit that Basham has shown flashes but yeah give me Creed Humphrey or a WR there.    I'm all about drafting offense early........its more sustainable.    But I am definitely not on the idiot train to drafting RB's early-ville.   Maybe one of those will win a SB for the team that drafted him one of these decades but the odds are against it.

[MAJBobby]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

As many of us said in frustration last offseason.........they were clearly just trying to "run it back".

 

But I've never deviated that I hate the spread.   Allen can make it work to some extent but this is not the way to use him.

 

With the exception of Morse,  who has been about exactly as expected..........every OL that has gotten significant snaps has either been extremely disappointing or has been too often unavailable(Brown).

 

That's the issue with their running game.    They could use a better lead running back but if they were simply blocking it up their running game would be a positive.   Very few things have been proven more right than not needing a stud RB to run the football.    Look at the street trash that TN picked up to put 270 yards on the Pats a week ago.   Block and it will look like you have good RB's.

 

As for drafting DE's.........I loved Rousseau,  didn't like the Basham pick.    But that position is something of a long term play.   I suspect Rousseau has had a foot injury that's hampered him since the KC game and he's only played one college season so not surprised if he's hit a wall as well.    I have to admit that Basham has shown flashes but yeah give me Creed Humphrey or a WR there.    I'm all about drafting offense early........its more sustainable.    But I am definitely not on the idiot train to drafting RB's early-ville.   Maybe one of those will win a SB for the team that drafted him one of these decades but the odds are against it.

I am fine putting Allen under center and running play action. Need to get Two new OGs to do it more effectively. And you don’t need a running game for PA to work. 
 

beasley is done showing his age. Sanders is done showing his age. Have Davis also needs to be on the field more than 20% of the snaps. He can bring the blocking Harry does for NE but also unlike Harry be a threat to catch the Ball. 
 

again pointing to build and coaching decisions. Why was McKenzie and Stevenson inactive. Man that speed would have been useful with some misdirection on a slick field. 
 

i do also agree that the OL needs an overhaul. 
 

bottomline you are not fixing the OL this season. So to keep slamming your head into it is going to cost this team. YOU CANNOT RUN. Fix it in the offseason and Do what you can do and that is let Allen sling it and run it. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by MAJBobby

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

As many of us said in frustration last offseason.........they were clearly just trying to "run it back".

 

But I've never deviated that I hate the spread.   Allen can make it work to some extent but this is not the way to use him.

 

With the exception of Morse,  who has been about exactly as expected..........every OL that has gotten significant snaps has either been extremely disappointing or has been too often unavailable(Brown).

 

That's the issue with their running game.    They could use a better lead running back but if they were simply blocking it up their running game would be a positive.   Very few things have been proven more right than not needing a stud RB to run the football.    Look at the street trash that TN picked up to put 270 yards on the Pats a week ago.   Block and it will look like you have good RB's.

 

As for drafting DE's.........I loved Rousseau,  didn't like the Basham pick.    But that position is something of a long term play.   I suspect Rousseau has had a foot injury that's hampered him since the KC game and he's only played one college season so not surprised if he's hit a wall as well.    I have to admit that Basham has shown flashes but yeah give me Creed Humphrey or a WR there.    I'm all about drafting offense early........its more sustainable.    But I am definitely not on the idiot train to drafting RB's early-ville.   Maybe one of those will win a SB for the team that drafted him one of these decades but the odds are against it.

The heck with TN; just look at the Pats. Stevenson, Harris, and White were all picked later than Moss and Singletary.  

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

The heck with TN; just look at the Pats. Stevenson, Harris, and White were all picked later than Moss and Singletary.  

And Singletary and Miss would he looking like their stable with NE OL on the Bills. 

[Dablitzkrieg]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

1st and Goal from the 6 yard line. Give the ball to Moss. We all know what's going to happen, he gets 0 yards. 

 

1st and 10 from the 13 yard line. Give the ball to Singletary. He gets 1 yard. 

 

No Josh Allen designed runs in the Red Zone, when the guy has 28 career TDs. And Josh should be at the point where he should audible out of those garbage play calls anyways. 

 

McDermott is in la-la land thinking that running works with this team, and that "toughness" equates to winning. 

That's a Daboll philosophy going back to Tolbert and Gore.  That's him.   Wasting downs in the red zone and will never change

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

And Singletary and Miss would he looking like their stable with NE OL on the Bills. 

Totally. 

[LeGOATski]

I believe their "disconnect" goes back to last year. McD has said as much when the struggles started this season.

 

This could end up being the nail in the coffin for the aforementioned offensive coaches, but there are still 5 games to be played, plus playoffs possibly.... 🙏🏻

[SectionC3]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think this is a very prevalent question. 

 

Personally if McDermott wants to ask questions about the run game the first person he should be asking is his buddy in the GM chair. We lead the league in running back fumbles. All three of those players we brought in by Beane. Our interior line couldn't push cotton candy. They were all acquired by Beane. I put the redzone struggles somewhat at Daboll's door. It is something he has been good at the past two years but a combination of teams keying in on tendencies and some odd choices of calls at times have hurt them (though so has execution). 

 

The struggles in the run game...... IT. IS. PERSONNEL. If anyone thinks swapping out an OL coach or an OC but running it back with these players would change anything they are kidding themselves. The run game wasn't good last year when our offense was breaking records. Was it still the OC and the OL coach's fault then? Or is it two years of the same average and poor players on the interior of the offensive line and the average to below average running backs. 

 

 

 

Ding ding we have a winner.  Mac is frustrated with Daboll. I agree that the offense has regressed this year.  It’s not as creative as it was last year — for example, where were pop passes last night?  The weather was a mess, and I can’t believe that we didn’t at least try to tire out their d-line by going side to side a bit.  At the very least a bad exchange on such a play is an incomplete pass, and exchanges apparently are a problem for us now.  

 

But the bigger issue is that a lot of our offensive success last year was Josh Allen pulling stuff out of his posterior and improvising into a ridiculous play.  That obviously hasn’t happened as much this year, and it isn’t easily replicable.  It also doesn’t help that Knox decided to revert prior form, and that we didn’t make many difficult plays last night (Diggs tough catch/drop in the end zone; and Sanders had a big drop on the sidelines as well).  

 

Then we get to the running game.  It’s a hot mess.  All of the backs are deeply flawed.  Moss has little speed.  Singletary is slightly quicker and more elusive than Moss, but he’s not fast enough to get outside.  Brieda has excellent speed, but is not equipped to regularly run between the tackles.  And, of course, none of them demonstrates good ball security. 

 

So what is Daboll to do?  The run game is ineffective—perhaps it was too reliant on the read option, perhaps Allen’s “tell” (swinging his arms pre-snap) when the call is a pass is a much bigger issue than we realize (like Roethlisberger’s tell last year), and perhaps the mish-mash we have on the offensive line is a much bigger issue than we realize (mobile, lighter center, immobile and ineffective guards, a starting guard who went on a juice diet or whatever and came in 10% lighter this year, Dawkins not playing nearly as well as last season.). Whatever.  I imagine Daboll looks at the play sheet and wonders what he can call without getting his quarterback killed.  In the meantime, we keep running our backs into the backside of our guards without any real benefit.  And here we are, losing a game in which our defense surrendered a mere 14 points and the opposing offense had to throw the ball three—THREE—times to win.  It is embarrassing. 

 

It also points to the idea that something is really off with this team.  They don’t seem to be having fun.  They seem really frustrated.  And it seems hopeless when they get behind.  I felt no hope in the red zone in the fourth quarter last night.  I appreciate that if Bass makes that kick we probably win the game with a FG at the end.  But sometimes the offense just has to score a touchdown.  We couldn’t when it counted, and we lost.  

[John from Riverside]

I feel like the OL coach and RB coach should have already been fired to send a message.

[FireChans]

21 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

That's a Daboll philosophy going back to Tolbert and Gore.  That's him.   Wasting downs in the red zone and will never change

Lol Tolbert wasn’t here when Dabs was. That’s McD all day everyday.

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Seriously… guy needs to stick to what he knows(defense). The offense should run through Allen… they need to be more effective running the ball not become a run dominate team. 

I don't see anyone thinking we should be a run dominant team. You don't wait twenty five years for a franchise qb to not throw the ball. Yet a great deal of the success of our last franchise qb was due to a fella, Thurman Thomas, and Kenneth Davis, these archaic creatures called running backs that were a recurring staple of an explosive offense that was hard to stop because you couldn't take away one aspect of the game and stymie the offense. And while I'm waxing nostalgic, we had a damn good oline that allowed you to run and pass, imagine that.