Should the Bulls and NYS pair with the Bills?

[Peace Frog]

An interesting article about this very subject can be found here.  Mods, please merge if no one has posted this link.

 

So did you hear, the Bills want a new stadium in Orchard Park, or they are going to leave for San Antonio....

© ubbulls.com

Or so the story goes.

Things got more interesting recently when UB Athletic Director Mark Alnutt made it known UB is interested in pairing with the Bills on this venture. His conditions are that it be on or proximate to the UB North campus. Where the cost would be close to the same as Orchard Park, but the UB community would have walking access for game days.

Of course maybe, with the right package, SUNY could be tempted in pairing up with the Bills for a downtown stadium and this is a negotiation. Negotiation strategy is not my thing, Conrad recently had some interesting throughts worth a read.

So here’s my thoughts on the matter.

Edited September 30, 2021 by Peace Frog

[PromoTheRobot]

Makes too much sense so it likely won't happen. FYI the proposed cost of building at/near UB was the same as OP: $1.4B. There isn't as much open land where you could build but they could tear down the current mausoleum called UB stadium and build on that footprint. UB could play in OP until completed. To me it's a win-win. Maybe putting a roof on is back on the table too.

[letsgoteam]

What would they do with the training facilities that they just put in at OP?  Would the Bills use that (and the current stadium ) for training camp, or does everything basically get abandoned or demo'd?

[msw2112]

While I would love to see UB and the Bills partnering on the deal, I just don't see the synergies.  First, the Bills sell out most of their games.  UB is a MAC school and doesn't have a big football history.  They just don't draw that many people, so they'd be playing in a stadium that was 80% empty.  That's not going to be impressive to recruits and athough there's some "chicken and egg" theory here, not something that is attractive to fans.  The atmosphere will be lacking. 
 

The second piece is location.  UB wants to have its stadium within walking distance of campus.  Having attended a university with a major D-1 football program, I can see why this is important.  Many college kids don't have cars, Uber/cabs are too expensive, public transportation in Buffalo is limited, and who wants to take a shuttle to get to a football game?  Games are usually Saturday afternoon, so college kids want to roll out of bed, have a few beverages with their friends, and then head over to the game.  Moreover, the UB site does not appear to be of interest to the Bills.  They have invested heavily in their faciltiies in OP, plus the land is readily available in there.  They may have other reasons to dislike the UB site.  I no longer live in Buffalo, but I am from the northtowns and usually stay in that area when I visit Buffalo, so a Bllls stadium there would certainly be more convenient for me and the people I would go to the game with (many of whom live near there), but I see it as being too sterile and a bad fit for Bills games.  I'd rather make the trek to OP.  

Edited September 30, 2021 by msw2112

[LeGOATski]

What year is this...1954?

[nkreed]

I think that there's a great little site opening up that would be within walking distance of BOTH campuses! The boulevard mall. The traffic would be impossible, but that's not the exercise here. Expansion of the metro rail to the North campus should be included, as a cherry on top. There's some massive infrastructure issues on NFB near the location that have long been delayed, based on how busy the road is.

 

 

[LeGOATski]

11 minutes ago, letsgoteam said:

What would they do with the training facilities that they just put in at OP?  Would the Bills use that (and the current stadium ) for training camp, or does everything basically get abandoned or demo'd?

I imagine they would still practice there a lot and then bus over to the stadium for some practices/games.

[Beast]

If UB is involved they had better make a jump to a bigger conference.

[letsgoteam]

Just now, Beast said:

If UB is involved they had better make a jump to a bigger conference.

Dont know if UB would. However with Texas and OU going to the SEC, stuff is going to go down so now is the time to jump to a bigger conference. I have zero idea the reality of it.

[Motorin']

6 minutes ago, nkreed said:

I think that there's a great little site opening up that would be within walking distance of BOTH campuses! The boulevard mall. The traffic would be impossible, but that's not the exercise here. Expansion of the metro rail to the North campus should be included, as a cherry on top. There's some massive infrastructure issues on NFB near the location that have long been delayed, based on how busy the road is.

 

 

 

Lol! Why not build it at the Apple Tree mall and throw in $1 movies! 

[BarleyNY]

46 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

While I would love to see UB and the Bills partnering on the deal, I just don't see the synergies.  First, the Bills sell out most of their games.  UB is a MAC school and doesn't have a big football history.  They just don't draw that many people, so they'd be playing in a stadium that was 80% empty.  That's not going to be impressive to recruits and athough there's some "chicken and egg" theory here, not something that is attractive to fans.  The atmosphere will be lacking. 
 

The second piece is location.  UB wants to have its stadium within walking distance of campus.  Having attended a university with a major D-1 football program, I can see why this is important.  Many college kids don't have cars, Uber/cabs are too expensive, public transportation in Buffalo is limited, and who wants to take a shuttle to get to a football game?  Games are usually Saturday afternoon, so college kids want to roll out of bed, have a few beverages with their friends, and then head over to the game.  Moreover, the UB site does not appear to be of interest to the Bills.  They have invested heavily in their faciltiies in OP, plus the land is readily available in there.  They may have other reasons to dislike the UB site.  I no longer live in Buffalo, but I am from the northtowns and usually stay in that area when I visit Buffalo, so a Bllls stadium there would certainly be more convenient for me and the people I would go to the game with (many of whom live near there), but I see it as being too sterile and a bad fit for Bills games.  I'd rather make the trek to OP.  

The only way it should be seriously considered is if UB is going to try to invest in and build up their football program.  That means top notch facilities and paying coaches real money.  The current college conferences are changing dramatically and some will be gone soon.  That makes this a great time to try and bring a team like the Bulls into prominence.  I don’t think they will try and there is a real possibility of failure even if they do.  For instance, I’m not sure the alumni and other fans would jump on board with the college game anyway.  But everyone loves a winner so it’s possible.

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, msw2112 said:

Uber/cabs are too expensive, public transportation in Buffalo is limited, and who wants to take a shuttle to get to a football game?   

 

Anyone who wants to go to a Washington game due to "safety".  If you do not pay to park you need to pay for a shuttle bus.  You cannot be dropped off, walk or use a bicycle. 

 

I can understand fans being favor of "anyplace but Orchard Park" (See same fans supporting downtown, UB and Niagara Falls) who do not tailgate but lots of fans not screaming will not be moving to stadium elsewhere.

[RiotAct]

56 minutes ago, nkreed said:

I think that there's a great little site opening up that would be within walking distance of BOTH campuses! The boulevard mall. The traffic would be impossible, but that's not the exercise here. Expansion of the metro rail to the North campus should be included, as a cherry on top. There's some massive infrastructure issues on NFB near the location that have long been delayed, based on how busy the road is.

 

 

lol, the Boulevard Mall is not within (reasonable) walking distance of South Campus.

[DrDawkinstein]

No to the stadium being in Amherst.

 

Yes to UB moving their games to a new downtown, domed stadium.

[RiotAct]

9 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Just move the UB North Campus, to Orchard Park.

I mean it basically looks like a Legoland anyway, so how hard could it be to “lift and shift”?

[Chandler#81]

1 hour ago, letsgoteam said:

What would they do with the training facilities that they just put in at OP?  Would the Bills use that (and the current stadium ) for training camp, or does everything basically get abandoned or demo'd?

Break it down. Move it. Set it back up.

Its just girders and aluminum.

[Punching Bag]

11 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

lol, the Boulevard Mall is not within (reasonable) walking distance of South Campus.

 

There is nothing in move the Bills to UB thread which is reasonable so why should that be?

This is from alumni of UB.

 

Northern Virginia Bills Backers Annual Tailgate this coming weekend at Jimmy's Old Town Tavern with UB alumni association.

https://www.jottnew.com/uploads/4/9/1/4/49145785/jimmy-s-tailgate-party-special_orig.png

13 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Just move the UB North Campus, to Orchard Park.

 

I understand ECC South may have some land free.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, letsgoteam said:

What would they do with the training facilities that they just put in at OP?  Would the Bills use that (and the current stadium ) for training camp, or does everything basically get abandoned or demo'd?

Everything could move or they just make op their corporate office and practice facility.

[BigAl2526]

I don't think UB should join in efforts to build a stadium in Orchard Park.  I think that the University has an obligation to keep games somewhat student friendly.  I assume a significant number of students don't have cars, and getting to games in Orchard Park could be a headache.  On the other hand, I think the idea of building a stadium near UB's Amherst campus deserves a close look.

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

3 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

Should the Bulls and NYS pair with the Bills?

 

Why would a Chicago-based NBA team want to pair up with the Bills?

[msw2112]

2 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Anyone who wants to go to a Washington game due to "safety".  If you do not pay to park you need to pay for a shuttle bus.  You cannot be dropped off, walk or use a bicycle. 

 

I can understand fans being favor of "anyplace but Orchard Park" (See same fans supporting downtown, UB and Niagara Falls) who do not tailgate but lots of fans not screaming will not be moving to stadium elsewhere.

 

I went to an Arizona Cardinals game where we parked on one of the more distant lots and had to take a shuttle bus to the stadium.  It was terrible and I would never do it again.  Tailgating near the stadium is part of the NFL experience, in my opinion.  Perhaps that's just because I grew up in Buffalo and that's what I know, but I have enjoyed tailgating at many other NFL and college stadiums other than Buffalo.  Given the option of riding the shuttle bus before and after the game, I might prefer to stay home and watch on TV or go to a sports bar.

[First Round Bust]

sad that football and hockey at the collegiate level were mostly inferior programs for decades across WNY (other than the frozen four)...that is another topic for another day...

[SoCal Deek]

This is actually an excellent idea for many reasons:

 

1. It gives NY State an easy excuse to help pay for the facility

2. Amherst already has the parking and road infrastructure

3. UB can play at Rich Stadium while the new Stadium is being built in Amherst.

4. Bills games, tailgating and parking are not disrupted during construction up in Amherst

5. A dome becomes a viable option as there are plenty of events a major university can use it for

 

Make it happen Governor! 

[Punching Bag]

12 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

This is actually an excellent idea for many reasons:

 

1. It gives NY State an easy excuse to help pay for the facility

2. Amherst already has the parking and road infrastructure

3. UB can play at Rich Stadium while the new Stadium is being built in Amherst.

4. Bills games, tailgating and parking are not disrupted during construction up in Amherst

5. A dome becomes a viable option as there are plenty of events a major university can use it for

 

Make it happen Governor! 

 

Amherst does not have road structure for Bills game.

[May Day 10]

As mentioned, it would have to accompany some kind of plan/commitment from NYS and UB to elevate their program.  

 

It doesn't make sense if we are going to settle into MAC crowds of 7-12K in a stadium of 60,000.  

 

 

Road-wise, it seems more possible than downtown.  People can be moved by 990 right there, 290 in both directions, as well as some arteries nearby like Sheridan, Millersport, Maple, Niagara Falls Blvd, etc.  

Edited September 30, 2021 by May Day 10

[SoCal Deek]

2 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Amherst does not have road structure for Bills game.

I'm not sure what kind of road structure you're looking for.  There's just as many 'expressways' encircling the UB Amherst campus as any other location in the Greater Buffalo area. (Take a quick visit there on Google Earth.)

Edited September 30, 2021 by SoCal Deek

[machine gun kelly]

Not happening and if college

kids are too poor for cars and uber, how are they a good economic customer for the Bills? They’re not amd I was one of those kids who paid for all of my Oswego and USF (grad school) education.

 

Besides arguably USF has a much bigger football fan base than UB, and a higher standard of living base in the Tampa area.  They are lucky to get 15-20k of fans per game.  Neither team is Clemson or GA.

 

Everything is set perfectly for OP.

[Rochesterfan]

4 hours ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

 

Why would a Chicago-based NBA team want to pair up with the Bills?

 

Well with the Bears moving to Arlington Heights - the Bulls want to follow suit!

 

😂

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

Not happening and if college

kids are too poor for cars and uber, how are they a good economic customer for the Bills? They’re not amd I was one of those kids who paid for all of my Oswego and USF (grad school) education.

 

Besides arguably USF has a much bigger football fan base than UB, and a higher standard of living base in the Tampa area.  They are lucky to get 15-20k of fans per game.  Neither team is Clemson or GA.

 

Everything is set perfectly for OP.

The UB kids wouldn’t be going to Orchard Park. Bills fans would be driving to Amherst.

And the point is to give the State an palatable excuse to invest money in the project since it’d be constructed on State property. 

[Orlando Tim]

UB should not want it unless it is on campus, which then means Bills don't want it. From a financial standpoint I get it but all other ways don't make sense.

[QCity]

Absolutely not. No decision regarding the new stadium should factor in anything from U freaking B lol

[SirAndrew]

I swear some people are under the delusion that UB football is Ohio State or something. Why in the world would UB want to play to an empty stadium ? I don’t even know if there’s a desire for a new UB stadium from the school or the state. The football program isn’t a giant money maker, like a big time program. The deal would basically mean UB getting a stadium they don’t need, while the Bills get to use their campus. It doesn’t seem very logical when UB doesn’t need a huge stadium. UB wouldn’t be getting much out of that deal, while the Bills get free land and income from sold out games.  

Edited October 1, 2021 by SirAndrew

[Process]

Would UB fill even 10% of an NFL stadium? 

[letsgoteam]

10 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Break it down. Move it. Set it back up.

Its just girders and aluminum.

Thanks. I live in TN and unfortunately have not been to a home game. 

[SirAndrew]

9 hours ago, QCity said:

Absolutely not. No decision regarding the new stadium should factor in anything from U freaking B lol

I can’t believe how much traction this UB topic has gained on TBD. It’s one of the more bizarre ideas I’ve heard accepted around here. NFL teams don’t build stadiums on college campuses to share with mid major football programs. No one cares if UB gets a new stadium tbh. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, SirAndrew said:

I can’t believe how much traction this UB topic has gained on TBD. It’s one of the more bizarre ideas I’ve heard accepted around here. NFL teams don’t build stadiums on college campuses to share with mid major football programs. No one cares if UB gets a new stadium tbh. 

This is all just a discussion on a message board. I’ve never been a never say never guy. There are a lot of never ideas that eventually become reality. Given the small market, working class area that is WNY this seems like a really smart idea to me. Other than saying it just isn’t done, I’m hard pressed to understand why not.

[SirAndrew]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

This is all just a discussion on a message board. I’ve never been a never say never guy. There are a lot of never ideas that eventually become reality. Given the small market, working class area that is WNY this seems like a really smart idea to me. Other than saying it just isn’t done, I’m hard pressed to understand why not.

I agree that discussion about any idea is great on a message board. I just don’t understand why UB needs a 60K seat stadium. This is a MAC team that’s lucky to attract 20K fans a game. The idea would seem more feasible if this were a big time college program. Was anyone really asking for a new UB football stadium ? 

[BillsfaninChicago]

Like I always say with most ideas in the the WNY area. They couldn’t figure out how to put a Bass Pro downtown I doubt they can do anything else.

[May Day 10]

1 hour ago, SirAndrew said:

I agree that discussion about any idea is great on a message board. I just don’t understand why UB needs a 60K seat stadium. This is a MAC team that’s lucky to attract 20K fans a game. The idea would seem more feasible if this were a big time college program. Was anyone really asking for a new UB football stadium ? 

 

I would think if UB were included in plans for a stadium, it would likely end up profiting the Pegulas to some degree via rent/lease in some form, concessions, etc

 

Now I would think that the plan would have to include (from both ends) some sort of commitment that UB up-jumps their program with some short, mid, and long-term goals.  It would probably need to really make an effort to move on from the MAC within 5 years for a start.

 

Right now, they do not sell a ton of tickets.  A lot of it has to do with the Maction weeknight games.  A lot has to do with the level of opponent/competition.  A lot of it has to do with that Stadium. 

I would argue the stadium there keeps a lot of people away.  I went in with my Bills ticket buddies (10 of us) and we were excited to get UB season tickets one year.  We went to the first few games, tailgated, had a bit of fun there... but the stadium is so awful, and not in a cool, dingy quaint way.  Its a pile of formed concrete about 1/8 of a mile from the field with terrible sightlines.  Everything about it is bad.  People started to bail after the 3rd game, the 4th was it.   I have been to a few games since, but its always disappointing.  Not to mention the weather cuts through that thing like a knife, and if you sit in the upper deck on the one side in a late afternoon game, you are staring directly into the sun because the other grandstand is about 2 miles to the West.

 

So I guess the question is... would more people go if the stadium was a proper football venue and if the opponents were on a better level than the MAC?  Students especially.  Seriously dont know the answer.  Buffalo is kind of a strange area supporting things that arent the Bills and Sabres.   I dont think they will/can ever be at a level like Ohio St, Penn St, etc... but can they get to a level like Pitt, Iowa State, NC State, etc?  Talking like 10 years down the line, plus.

[Don Otreply]

5 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

I can’t believe how much traction this UB topic has gained on TBD. It’s one of the more bizarre ideas I’ve heard accepted around here. NFL teams don’t build stadiums on college campuses to share with mid major football programs. No one cares if UB gets a new stadium tbh. 

It’s pretty obvious that folk are just having fun throwing stuff at the wall so to speak, I would suspect no one thinks it’s gonna happen, but then again…, why did the Pegulas make the invitation in the first place if it supposedly would have no real financial benefit to them..,.???? 😁👍 (cue the canned organ music)

 

Go Bills!!!