Bills open practice 9/1 and media

[NickelCity]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Other reports Dane Jackson also in red jersey

 

Love seeing Phillips and Sweeney on that list. 

[HurlyBurly51]

23 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

 

Shades of Marshawn in his college days lol

Or his Buffalo days cruisin' down Chippewa

[K-9]

41 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Lousy snap.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

Yikes.  McKenzie does some beatiful jukes, makes a sweet one-handed grab with his L hand, then immediately flips the ball to his R hand and grabs his L shoulderpads with his L hand

 

But, he does have a week and a half, so....

 

Sweeney looks good actually.

[nucci]

24 minutes ago, K-9 said:

 

 

25 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Lousy snap.

how come they never say that after a 30 yd FG....easily from 50?

[Malazan]

55 minutes ago, Cash said:

The problem with that logic is that “the 20%” might be what separates a Good team from a Championship team. There are strong benefits of having a real pass-catching threat at TE (who also blocks effectively in the run game). 

 

You completely and totally misunderstand. The 20% is what keeps you from being great. You're so focused on "their must be someone who is labeled as a TE" that you ignore the best results.

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Why does it have to be a “bunch of resources”?    How about a couple mill or a draft pick?

 

Turns out Knox, Gilliam and Sweeney were all draft picks. 

[FLFan]

1 hour ago, Don Otreply said:

Not upper tier in anyone’s book…, a bit over stated there Coach…

 

Yes.  He was the the best receiving option on a team without any real options at WR.  That does not make him elite.

[CorkScrewHill]

The really interesting thing to me is with all of these QBs wanting input and trying to force the HC / GM hands, Josh I think makes recommendations as to people he would like to see the team look at, but isn't trying to dictate final personnel decisions. At lest that is the way it appears. I always thought Aaron griping about his need for better teammates must really rub his actual teammates the wrong way. The Hollister decision seems to indicate that at least.

Edited September 1, 2021 by CorkScrewHill

[Mango]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Harsh, but 😂

 

Kroft did have 3 TD and 9 1st downs, which is pretty good for 12 receptions.

Smith had 2 TD and 3 1st downs in 4 targets

 

Hard to say "nothing" is an improvement on that.

 

I thought Kroft was a nice option. A steady hand if you will. He stepped in well when Knox went down. Could he be replaced? Sure. 
 

The TE room is weird at the moment. 

3 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

The really interesting thing to me is with all of these QBs wanting input and trying to force the HC / GM hands, Josh I think makes recommendations as to people he would like to see the team look at, but isn't trying to dictate final personnel decisions. At lest that is the way it appears. I always thought Aaron griping about his need for better teammates must really rub his actual teammates the wrong way.

Optics can be as important as results. We don’t know how much input has in offensive personnel. He may whine like Rogers behind closed doors or you might be right. But the way guys like Rogers have handled their situations is bad at every level. 

Edited September 1, 2021 by Mango
Double quote

[Dukestreetking]

27 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Sweeney looks good actually.

Agree. Seems he spent alot of his "down time" in the weight room. Don't remember him looking that swoll.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 minutes ago, Mango said:

I thought Kroft was a nice option. A steady hand if you will. He stepped in well when Knox went down. Could he be replaced? Sure. 
 

The TE room is weird at the moment. 

Optics can be as important as results. We don’t know how much input has in offensive personnel. He may whine like Rogers behind closed doors or you might be right. But the way guys like Rogers have handled their situations is bad at every level. 

 

To be fair, I don't recall hearing much Rodgers whining in the days when he was throwing to Jennings, Driver, or Nelson and winning the SB, vs losing the last two Conf. Championships.

 

Give Allen a decade and have him throwing to Adams and who? while we lose successive conference championships and he feels the clock winding down on his Superbowl window, and maybe he won't handle his situation so quietly, either

[fergie's ire]

43 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

You completely and totally misunderstand. The 20% is what keeps you from being great. You're so focused on "their must be someone who is labeled as a TE" that you ignore the best results.

 

Turns out Knox, Gilliam and Sweeney were all draft picks. 

Well, Gilliam wasn't....but I otherwise agree.

[Solomon Grundy]

48 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

You completely and totally misunderstand. The 20% is what keeps you from being great. You're so focused on "their must be someone who is labeled as a TE" that you ignore the best results.

 

Turns out Knox, Gilliam and Sweeney were all draft picks. 

Is this the reason Hollister was let go before them? Some GMs don’t want to admit mistakes. I keep referencing Peterman 

[Motorin']

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

I think Ike is better in pass pro. Cody's a better run blocker. 

 

It's going to be interesting... My guess is Cody starts week 1, and keeps the job as long as he stays healthy and doesn't become a liability in pass protection. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

Lousy snap.

 

If Long Snapping were so easy that anyone could do it, teams wouldn't keep a dedicated long snapping specialist

[Malazan]

2 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Is this the reason Hollister was let go before them? Some GMs don’t want to admit mistakes. I keep referencing Peterman 

 

Beane has more loyalty to draft picks (like the ones he just cut) over the guy he signed in free agency... is a take, for sure. 

 

Pretty much everyone on the roster was brought in by Beane so no matter what he does he's letting go of a player he is responsible for being here. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

6 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

I think Ike is better in pass pro. Cody's a better run blocker. 

 

It's going to be interesting... My guess is Cody starts week 1, and keeps the job as long as he stays healthy and doesn't become a liability in pass protection. 

 

Cody also played RT for a year, so to me as a depth option he gives you some flexibility there to not force a rookie into regular gametime.  Gimme the best 5, and if ford is in, he's still probably my first guy going in at tackle if a tackle goes down.  

[LyndonvilleBill]

2 hours ago, Bangarang said:

He hasn’t been good even when healthy. And we must have watched different games because his pass blocking is still not good. 
 

Considering we’re a passing offense, pass blocking is more important to me. 
 

There’s obviously a reason why the coaching staff is still rotating Ike and Ford and why Beane didn’t commit to Ford being the starter.

 

It sucks Ford couldn’t take the job and run with it considering where we drafted him but sometimes guys aren’t as good as you hope. I want the 5 best guys on the field for what we do on offense.

Ford. First year RT, bad choice. Second year LG and gets injured.  Third year, RG, I'll give him a few games, but if he doesn't show out in say the 1st 3 games, yank him.🤔

[Motorin']

1 minute ago, dneveu said:

 

Cody also played RT for a year, so to me as a depth option he gives you some flexibility there to not force a rookie into regular gametime.  Gimme the best 5, and if ford is in, he's still probably my first guy going in at tackle if a tackle goes down.  

 

Makes sense. I'd probably lean towards Brown at swing tackle. And Bates can handle OT as well, imo. But yeah, McD usually skews towards trusting experience. So it wouldn't surprise me if Cody is #3 OT.

 

I like Ike, and think he has more room for growth in his game. It might be a coin flip between him and Ford at G. Maybe it even hinges on Mongo, if they like him better at LG than RG. Idk. 

[Don Otreply]

38 minutes ago, Dukestreetking said:

Agree. Seems he spent alot of his "down time" in the weight room. Don't remember him looking that swoll.

That and he moves more fluently than Knox, who is shall we say more wooden in his movements, and has far better hands, you know, that actually catching the ball thing… 

[YoloinOhio]

 

Sounds like Baby Hyde may be here 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

10 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Makes sense. I'd probably lean towards Brown at swing tackle. And Bates can handle OT as well, imo. But yeah, McD usually skews towards trusting experience. So it wouldn't surprise me if Cody is #3 OT.

 

I like Ike, and think he has more room for growth in his game. It might be a coin flip between him and Ford at G. Maybe it even hinges on Mongo, if they like him better at LG than RG. Idk. 

 

I think it comes down to - if boettger is on the bench in the 5, if someone is injured - would you rather put boettger in and move ford or leave ford and insert brown? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Sounds like Baby Hyde may be here 

 

I was thinking that earlier when I saw the report no Micah Hyde - Baby Hyde on the way!

 

[K-9]

31 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If Long Snapping were so easy that anyone could do it, teams wouldn't keep a dedicated long snapping specialist

Nobody said it was easy. That’s why good long snappers are worth their weight in gold. Let’s hope Epenesa isn’t pressed into service. Ever. 

[YattaOkasan]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

In an actual game situation, does anyone think a DE actually covers Bease successfully?

Hes essentially being double teamed so yes i think it can happen.

 

 

On the cody and ike discussions i think its gonna be a rotation right away.  ford might start but i think ike will get reps in the games.

[Cash]

1 hour ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

You completely and totally misunderstand. The 20% is what keeps you from being great. You're so focused on "their must be someone who is labeled as a TE" that you ignore the best results.

Well one of us misunderstands, because it sounded like you were saying TEs don’t matter to NFL success. And that’s demonstrably false. It’s not pure coincidence that 10 of the last 14 Super Bowl participants have had “star” TEs. And there’s been a lot of analysis over the years of the tactical advantage of a 2-TE set where both TEs are receiving threats. Plus, TEs are important in short yardage situations, and no matter how WR focused your offense is, you’ll find yourself in those situations on a regular basis. 
 

But I agree with you that our top 2 TEs being Knox/Hollister vs Knox/Sweeney is probably not going to move the needle. Maybe you just meant that these particular TEs on the 2021 Bills are the 20%, in which case I misunderstood you, and you can pretty much ignore everything above. 

[YattaOkasan]

6 minutes ago, Cash said:

Well one of us misunderstands, because it sounded like you were saying TEs don’t matter to NFL success. And that’s demonstrably false. It’s not pure coincidence that 10 of the last 14 Super Bowl participants have had “star” TEs. And there’s been a lot of analysis over the years of the tactical advantage of a 2-TE set where both TEs are receiving threats. Plus, TEs are important in short yardage situations, and no matter how WR focused your offense is, you’ll find yourself in those situations on a regular basis. 
 

But I agree with you that our top 2 TEs being Knox/Hollister vs Knox/Sweeney is probably not going to move the needle. Maybe you just meant that these particular TEs on the 2021 Bills are the 20%, in which case I misunderstood you, and you can pretty much ignore everything above. 

I think youre calling Gronk last year a star?  He played well in that game but I'm not sure he was a star for the year.  Also looking prior to the last 7 years there was a dearth of TE talent in Super Bowl.  I agree a star TE can be a tactical advantage but with limited resources how do you prioritize getting one.  Are they more important than a number 3 receiver? a number 2?  

[Cash]

5 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

I think youre calling Gronk last year a star?  He played well in that game but I'm not sure he was a star for the year.  Also looking prior to the last 7 years there was a dearth of TE talent in Super Bowl.  I agree a star TE can be a tactical advantage but with limited resources how do you prioritize getting one.  Are they more important than a number 3 receiver? a number 2?  

Gronk played like a star down the stretch of the regular season, and combined with his history of star play, I think it’s a fair call. And I agree with the rest of your post. A star TE definitely isn’t necessary or required to win it all. And star TEs seem to have shorter shelf lives on average than star WRs, so there’s at least some advantage to putting resources into WRs. 
 

So when the Bills seemingly neglected TE from 2020 to 2021, I’m not necessarily happy about it, but I get it. If Ertz had gotten cut, I would’ve loved to see the Bills sign him to a 1 year deal. But I didn’t think it was worth both draft capital and $8mil to bring him in. Likewise, I liked that we tried to sign Greg Olsen before the 2020 season. Would’ve been a great mentor to Knox, and could’ve contributed in 2-TE sets. But when he said no, the Bills didn’t think anyone else on the market was worth the $$, and I respect that. 
 

Ultimately I’m sure the Bills would love to have the personnel to run an effective 2-TE set at least some of the time in every game. But I trust this FO’s evaluations of players. If they don’t think Hollister will help the team more than Speedy or whoever, then I’m fine with that. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

21 minutes ago, Cash said:

Well one of us misunderstands, because it sounded like you were saying TEs don’t matter to NFL success. And that’s demonstrably false. It’s not pure coincidence that 10 of the last 14 Super Bowl participants have had “star” TEs. And there’s been a lot of analysis over the years of the tactical advantage of a 2-TE set where both TEs are receiving threats. Plus, TEs are important in short yardage situations, and no matter how WR focused your offense is, you’ll find yourself in those situations on a regular basis. 
 

But I agree with you that our top 2 TEs being Knox/Hollister vs Knox/Sweeney is probably not going to move the needle. Maybe you just meant that these particular TEs on the 2021 Bills are the 20%, in which case I misunderstood you, and you can pretty much ignore everything above. 

 

Ok - somewhat strange timeframe to choose but - 5 of those participants had Gronk(* on the 2016-2017 one... he didn't play in the playoffs).  2 were Kelce.  1 was Ertz. and 1 was Olsen, and i guess Hooper is the 10th?  I'm not sure how much better Hooper is than Knox tbh, his numbers are pretty underwhelming and he's not someone you walk in wondering how you're going to stop.

 

So 7 of the last 14 super bowl participants were Gronk and Kelce.  Also Brady and Mahomes were there.  I'm not sure i buy into this the same way.  

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

1 hour ago, Cash said:

But I agree with you that our top 2 TEs being Knox/Hollister vs Knox/Sweeney is probably not going to move the needle. Maybe you just meant that these particular TEs on the 2021 Bills are the 20%, in which case I misunderstood you, and you can pretty much ignore everything above. 

That can't be what he meant because he introduced his '80-20' philosophy thing as a case against using resources on TEs in the first place. 

[MJS]

6 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Hope you are right, I dont know what happened to Singletary's "fire" last year but he looked like his "old" self this pre-season.

I think it was getting hit by five defenders in the back field as soon as he touched the ball all year.

5 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

That's fine but why does Sweeney offer more than Hollister? That's what I don't understand. It can't be a cap move because Hollister was only set to make a couple hundred thousand more than Sweeney. Usually even with the moves I disagree with I can see the logic in, this one I just don't see it.

You saw Hollister on only like 3 plays. Maybe people were working him up without actually seeing anything from him.

 

Both are depth players. I'll trust the coaches who have actually seen them both play a ton.

[MJS]

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Pretty simple, he got beat out by Sweeney and Gilliam (basically an Hback) and they kept 7 WRs instead of a 4th TE

Exactly. Hollister would not have been cut if Beane and McDermott didn't think Sweeney and Gilliam provided more for the team. Hollister is just another of those camp darlings that fans got fixated on.

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

Exactly. Hollister would not have been cut if Beane and McDermott didn't think Sweeney and Gilliam provided more for the team. Hollister is just another of those camp darlings that fans got fixated on.

I didn’t even realize anyone was fixated on him. When did this happen? He missed a bunch of camp with that back injury. I thought he would initially make it in a roster move like Ferguson’s to get Sweeney to short term IR since he had that boot on his foot … but since Sweeney is healthy …it was always going to be one or the other 

[HappyDays]

14 minutes ago, MJS said:

You saw Hollister on only like 3 plays. Maybe people were working him up without actually seeing anything from him.

 

I saw him catch the ball. And that's all I needed to see! I have very low standards for TEs in this offense. Catch the ball and be where you're supposed to. Right now I don't trust Knox to do either of those things consistently and nothing out of training camp or preseason makes me think he is going to suddenly clean up his issues. I would love for him to prove me wrong. He was my favorite draft pick that year because I saw unlimited potential. But until I actually see him develop I'm not convinced he will.

[MJS]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I didn’t even realize anyone was fixated on him. When did this happen? He missed a bunch of camp with that back injury. I thought he would initially make it in a roster move like Ferguson’s to get Sweeney to short term IR since he had that boot on his foot … but since Sweeney is healthy …it was always going to be one or the other 

A lot of posters here were convinced he would supplant Knox as the #1 TE after a few tweets about him making a couple plays in training camp. And we see it here again with the countless posts of confusion on why he didn't make the team.

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I saw him catch the ball. And that's all I needed to see! I have very low standards for TEs in this offense. Catch the ball and be where you're supposed to. Right now I don't trust Knox to do either of those things consistently and nothing out of training camp or preseason makes me think he is going to suddenly clean up his issues. I would love for him to prove me wrong. He was my favorite draft pick that year because I saw unlimited potential. But until I actually see him develop I'm not convinced he will.

I totally get it. Knox needs to be better. In fact, I would love to see an upgrade to Knox regardless, but I never saw Hollister as anything but depth.

[Shaw66]

7 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

The Bills finished at or near the top in almost every meaningful offensive category last year with minimal contributions from the TE position.  It's clear that Daboll doesn't need a premier TE to make this offense click.  I'm surprised by the Hollister cut too, but we still have the best WR corps in the NFL and a QB who can throw the ball to any spot on the field, on pace, on time. 

 

I'll trust Beane and Co. on this one.

 

 

Makes sense.  Dabs would rather have the extra blocker who can run his patterns and catch, rather than an extra receiver who isn't a blocking threat when line up tight.  It's luxury to be able to add the extra blocker to enhance the running game, especially because the Bills run so much play action.  

7 hours ago, Logic said:

I am absolutely flummoxed by the release of Hollister. I thought FOR SURE it was just roster gymnastics and he'd be brought back.

To go into the season with only Dawson Knox -- who still has yet to prove he can be a high quality starter at the position -- and Sweeney and Gilliam (and Gilliam is listed as a fullback, mind you) is crazy to me. It shows A TON of confidence in Dawson Knox. Even IF Knox breaks out, though, there's always health to consider. The Bills are now one Dawson Knox injury away from going into an actual NFL game with Tommy Sweeney and Reggie Gilliam as its only tight ends.

Between Hollister's athleticism, his chemistry with Josh, and just the sheer need to have more than one capable tight end in today's game, I just don't understand this move. It makes zero sense to me.

I hear you.  Probably means they'll get some comfort by having a practice squad TE who might offer more of a receiving threat that Gilliam or Sweeney. 

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I saw him catch the ball. And that's all I needed to see! I have very low standards for TEs in this offense. Catch the ball and be where you're supposed to. Right now I don't trust Knox to do either of those things consistently and nothing out of training camp or preseason makes me think he is going to suddenly clean up his issues. I would love for him to prove me wrong. He was my favorite draft pick that year because I saw unlimited potential. But until I actually see him develop I'm not convinced he will.

Hap 

 

I tend to agree catch the ball and be where you're supposed to be, unless you have a special downfield talent.  The really good tight ends are threats in their own right.   So, although I'd choose TEs by your standard, I think the Bills see Knox as a potential high-reward receiver that Hollister never will be.  Knox is downfield threat, and he's a threat after the catch.  I'd guess that the Bills think that just the threat of Knox opens up the offense, and it he can emerge as a consistent threat, all the better.  I think he probably has really special upside, because it's surprising to me that the Bills are still so invested in him in his third season. 

[Warcodered]

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

That and he moves more fluently than Knox, who is shall we say more wooden in his movements, and has far better hands, you know, that actually catching the ball thing… 

 

I personally think Sweeney looks awkward when he runs routes and catches passes.  He gets the job done, he just looks awkward to me.