Wow...NFL attempting to make vaccines mandatory for NFL players now...NFLPA not with it

[US Egg]

The NFL want to protect their product. Can’t blame them for that.

[Process]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said:

A mandate will never work. This has potential to backfire tremendously. Get your popcorn ready. Bring in the tomato plants. 
 

Lol, care to share why it wouldn't work? Sure some vets will retire. Who gives a damn.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, I am the egg man said:

The NFL want to protect their product. Can’t blame them for that.

 

I can't blame them, but they need to look carefully at the actual situation in the country and decide whether trying to mandate vaccines is the best way to accomplish that at this point.

 

 

[Mango]

22 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Tie Ertz into the thread and we have a winning Trifecta.

Have we talked about Beasleys latest rap song? 

[mannc]

2 hours ago, aristocrat said:

Dawkins should be the first person the NFLPA asks about this

How so?

[Brennan Huff]

Just let us win the Super Bowl first..

[Malazan]

27 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Tie Ertz into the thread and we have a winning Trifecta.

 

Can Duke Williams and Robert Foster make an appearance? 

[RoyBatty is alive]

7 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I don’t think they’ll find an agreement to mandate it. 
Players against can point to the successes of last season without it. If players follow similar rules to last year it already has proven success. (I realize not all players are following along with the rules in place, some didn’t last year as well) Also the fact we are so close to the season beginning makes it even more difficult 

 

Was last year really a "success"?  Not sure about that, yes we had a "full season" moving games around, it certainly impacted the Bills and I would assert in a negative way.  It has to be expensive to continually cancelling/moving games and help us if we cant field a real team or be competitive much less forfeit. And cancelling games from empty/next to empty stadiums is one thing, move games around with fans in attendance the cost and complexity skyrockets.

Edited August 27, 2021 by RoyBatty is alive

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, Process said:

Lol, care to share why it wouldn't work? Sure some vets will retire. Who gives a damn.

 

So let's step back a minute.

 

Let's hypothesize that the NFL's goal is to "protect their product" by not only carrying out all of the games, but having them involve starters and be of a high quality. 

 

A lot of viewers and ticketholders were not happy about the ridiculousness of a game where the Denver Broncos being forced to play without a QB, and the NFL quickly changed their policies to prevent that happening again.

 

So if they mandate vaccination at this time, when NFL rosters are almost set, guys have learnt the playbook and how to play effectively together, and a bunch of teams don't have the cap space to make significant moves - if a bunch of veterans retire at this point, will that improve/maintain the quality of the product, or will it degrade it?

 

The NFLPA is a balancing act for the NFL, I think.  One guy stated it doesn't have a lot of power, and I think that's true.  But the NFL has maintained a not-very-effective-or-powerful union by balancing getting what they want, with enough accomodations that the membership doesn't decertify the NFLPA.

 

If it's true (as various sportswriters and agents have said) that a lot of the rank-and-file players did not want to be vaccinated but went along because they didn't want to hinder their careers, pushing through a vaccine mandate that actually might not be the most effective way to maintaining quality product on the field, could cause decertification of the NFLPA and formation of a new union that would be harder for the NFL to deal with.

[MrSarcasm]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Also Bills appear to be way behind the curve as NFL says 93% of it's players are fully vaxxed

What constitutes way behind? At what point are they just behind?

[Utah John]

They should do both. Daily tests until the data show the tests aren't necessary anymore (I hope), and mandatory vaccinations.  For all players, coaches and staff.

[mannc]

51 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think there are 16 unvaccinated players (0.2 x 80) and it's a pretty strong guess, given what agents etc have been saying publicly, most of them are vets who feel secure of a roster spots and have made their money.

 

That would mean (53-16)/53 or 70% vaccinated after cutdowns to the 53

 

It's a pretty sure bet that Mahomes publicly announcing he was vaccinated to protect his baby early on has a big impact on KC's vaccination rate, and Fitzpatrick being both vaccinated and everyone in his family including kids vaccinated and sitting and talking to anyone about it, had a big impact on WFT turning itself around from least-vaxxed to one of the most vaxxed.

 

I just don't think we have anyone similar on the Bills who is a respected leader on the team and fully supports vaccination, but the truth is neither of us know what's going on inside the locker room.

 

I don't think the mandatory vaccination thing will fly with the NFLPA.   I think if they do push it through their membership will revolt.  Just my opinion, for which in this instance I totally and openly admit I have no factual evidence.

I agree.  I wonder if the NFLPA leadership is under fire from the membership for agreeing to the current protocols. If so, that might make them less likely to back down on this issue.  I suppose the league could take the position that vaccine mandate is a work rule that is not a subject of collective bargaining and just try to ram it through. I have no idea what the law is on that, but it would seem to be a stretch. Also, I think the league operates in states where vaccine mandates are illegal, like Texas, IIRC.  

6 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

Was last year really a "success"?  Not sure about that, yes we had a "full season" moving games around, it certainly impacted the Bills and I would assert in a negative way.  It has to be expensive to continually cancelling/moving games and help us if we cant field a real team or be competitive much less forfeit. And cancelling games from empty/next to empty stadiums is one thing, move games around with fans in attendance the cost and complexity skyrockets.

Given that many people (especially in the media) thought the season should be cancelled, I thought last season was hugely successful.  I don't think any games were cancelled and no players or coaches got seriously ill.

[Reader]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said:

Some people, especially in America take their personal liberties seriously. Beasley for example. 

 

And that is different from the idea that he will retire...how? The NFL will utilize it's liberties to require vaccination, Beasley will exercise his liberty to then retire. Other players will exercise their liberties to get vaccinated and continue to play. Strange that you single out "some people."

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

It’s a business 

 

if said business says get a shot or take a hike 

 

They have a Choice 

to comply or not.  
 

[HalftimeAdjustment]

I think the NFLPA just says "no" and the proposal goes nowhere. Even if 90% of players are vaccinated that does not at all imply that a majority of players support forcing the other 10% to get vaccinated. Support for a mandate among players is likely very, very low. There was already basically a "vax or be inconvenienced" approach in place, the NFL should leave it at that.

[Wayne Cubed]

5 minutes ago, mannc said:

I agree.  I wonder if the NFLPA leadership is under fire from the membership for agreeing to the current protocols. If so, that might make them less likely to back down on this issue.  I suppose the league could take the position that vaccine mandate is a work rule that is not a subject of collective bargaining and just try to ram it through. I have no idea what the law is on that, but it would seem to be a stretch. Also, I think the league operates in states where vaccine mandates are illegal, like Texas, IIRC.  

 

Why would they be under fire? A very, very high percentage of their players have been vaccinated. The NFLPA has something like 3000 members just because a few players, like Beasley or Cousins, have big mouths or disagree with the policy doesn't mean they should change what that policy is. The vast majority, based on vaccination numbers, were ok with that policy otherwise there's no way NFLPA leadership would have signed off on it. They wouldn't just go to the NFL with a policy that the majority of it's members don't agree with.

 

Yes, the Beasleys of the world are screaming the loudest. That doesn't mean they represent the thoughts of the majority.

[Buffalo Boy]

1 hour ago, LeGOATski said:

It makes sense for the NFL. Their product isn't up to standards if a bunch of players are out.

    Feel like there is some CYA going on the leagues part. If games get canceled they can assign the blame elsewhere.

[Process]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said:

Some people, especially in America take their personal liberties seriously. Beasley for example. 

If you are saying the NFLPA would never agree to it then I agree with you, they won't.

 

That's different then saying a mandate wouldn't work. If they agree to a mandate, then the players can't do anything about it. Get the shot or retire, which I'm sure Beasley would do. And I couldn't care less. 

[Mat68]

With the FDA approval this was an option.  I don't believe the NFLPA will be able to stop it.  Most of the people they represent are already vaccinated.  The Owners want fans in the stands. With covid around many states will mandate vaccine for entry into stadiums.  Requesting the players to do the same thing the other 50,000 people their to do isnt crazy.   

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 hours ago, billsfanmiamioh said:

This should go well! 

 

With the league or this message board? LOL!

[nedboy7]

I dont have my hopes up for this season.  It could derail at anytime.  It's gonna be stupid.  Vaccine or no vaccine. 

[The Wiz]

30 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

Can Duke Williams and Robert Foster make an appearance? 

How you gonna leave Da'Rick hanging like that???

[Mat68]

Increase the projected cap next year by 10% and the NFLPA will fold like a cheap tent.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

With the league or this message board? LOL!

 

Yes.

[aristocrat]

38 minutes ago, mannc said:

How so?

 

He had a very bad experience with the virus in which he thought he may die.  

[Billzgobowlin]

48 minutes ago, I am the egg man said:

The NFL want to protect their product. Can’t blame them for that.

I could see your point if it stopped you from getting Covid or even spreading it...

[mannc]

1 minute ago, aristocrat said:

 

He had a very bad experience with the virus in which he thought he may die.  

And he was vaccinated...

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

OP, I sure didn’t expect to see Covid and anthem-kneeling threads on the same morning today! 

 

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Tie Ertz into the thread and we have a winning Trifecta.

 

I heard Ertz is going to kneel while being vacinated!

[4_kidd_4]

Getcha popcorn ready.

[BassToMouth]

2 hours ago, aristocrat said:

Dawkins should be the first person the NFLPA asks about this

Why. In the article it even mentions how Beasley and McKenzie had close

contact w a vaccinated person who contracted Covid. Lol unreal how dumb our population is, you believe everything you’re told by people you know nothing about. But but the scientists say … researchers concluded … the cdc (a private company) advised .. wake up this has nothing to do with a ‘virus’

[CSBill]

2 hours ago, billsfanmiamioh said:

This should go well! 

What could go wrong?

[mannc]

20 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

Why would they be under fire? A very, very high percentage of their players have been vaccinated. The NFLPA has something like 3000 members just because a few players, like Beasley or Cousins, have big mouths or disagree with the policy doesn't mean they should change what that policy is. The vast majority, based on vaccination numbers, were ok with that policy otherwise there's no way NFLPA leadership would have signed off on it. They wouldn't just go to the NFL with a policy that the majority of it's members don't agree with.

 

Yes, the Beasleys of the world are screaming the loudest. That doesn't mean they represent the thoughts of the majority.

I did not say they necessarily are under fire. I posed the question.  The fact that many players are vaccinated doesn't mean they favor the protocols or even wanted the vax; many probably got vaccinated because they didn't feel like they had a viable choice, and many who are vaccinated may nonetheless believe the protocols are silly and counterproductive.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

Why would they be under fire? A very, very high percentage of their players have been vaccinated. The NFLPA has something like 3000 members just because a few players, like Beasley or Cousins, have big mouths or disagree with the policy doesn't mean they should change what that policy is. The vast majority, based on vaccination numbers, were ok with that policy otherwise there's no way NFLPA leadership would have signed off on it. They wouldn't just go to the NFL with a policy that the majority of it's members don't agree with.

 

Yes, the Beasleys of the world are screaming the loudest. That doesn't mean they represent the thoughts of the majority.

 

We're not talking about changine the policy, right?  We're talking about imposing a new policy.

 

A player being vaccinated himself, and a player being willing to sign off on a mandate that all players should be vaccinated or retire/be terminated are two different things.

 

Someone elsewhere asked why the mandate wouldn't work.  Think about how far into the season the timeline for being considered fully vaccinated would take us.  Then add in weeks for discussion/debate before hypothetical NFLPA approval.  Then add in weeks for a possible court challenge, since a number of states have enacted laws that prohibit mandates, including in places that receive state monies (like some stadiums?). 

 

So even if vaccinating every player is actually an effective strategy for completing a season (which I personally question) we'd be halfway through the season by then.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

I did not say they necessarily are under fire. I posed the question.  The fact that many players are vaccinated doesn't mean they favor the protocols or even wanted the vax; many probably got vaccinated because they didn't feel like they had a viable choice, and many who are vaccinated may nonetheless believe the protocols are silly and counterproductive.  

 

Or at least, many players, including those who are vaccinated, may sincerely believe that vaccination should be a personal choice.

[aristocrat]

5 minutes ago, mannc said:

And he was vaccinated...

 

No he wasn't. Almost but not effective.  Dawkins also stated he wished he were fully vaxxed and was glad he was partly vaxxed as it would have been better for him.  He did not have any regrets for the vax only that he supported it.  So yes, the NFLPA should call him. 

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

No he wasn't. Almost but not effective.  Dawkins also stated he wished he were fully vaxxed and was glad he was partly vaxxed as it would have been better for him.  He did not have any regrets for the vax only that he supported it.  So yes, the NFLPA should call him. 

IIRC, he had had both shots and was a day or so shy of two weeks post vax when he caught it.  Doesn't seem like a great spokesperson for the vax.  

[Wayne Cubed]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

We're not talking about changine the policy, right?  We're talking about imposing a new policy.

 

A player being vaccinated himself, and a player being willing to sign off on a mandate that all players should be vaccinated or retire/be terminated are two different things.

 

Someone elsewhere asked why the mandate wouldn't work.  Think about how far into the season the timeline for being considered fully vaccinated would take us.  Then add in weeks for discussion/debate before hypothetical NFLPA approval.  Then add in weeks for a possible court challenge, since a number of states have enacted laws that prohibit mandates, including in places that receive state monies (like some stadiums?). 

 

So even if vaccinating every player is actually an effective strategy for completing a season (which I personally question) we'd be halfway through the season by then.

 

Oh no, talking about current policy. Not changing it. It was in response to the comment about the NFLPA leadership being under fire, which I don't think they are. I think the vast majority of players were more than happy to sign off on the current policy. 

 

The mandate of the vaccine would be an entirely different topic. It's possible it could have gotten signed off early on but not at this point, I don't think.

[foreboding]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

The part about "based entirely on perception" is probably incorrect as is the "NFL only wants cover from blame" bit.

I think there's reasonable evidence to believe the NFL's policies were based on the science available at the time they were drawing them up last Spring, but have been slow to adjust to the changing reality on the ground this Summer.  I put up some refs and calculations over in the facts thread if you want to understand what I mean.

 

I mean, c'mon, the NFL's chief medical officer is a very sharp guy, a neurosurgeon from Vanderbuilt, and they brought in a lot of good talent as consultants.  These are not guys with peanut-size egos (how many neurosurgeons does it take to change a light bulb?) who would sit quietly and lend their names while their science-based proposals were shunted aside by NFL bureaucrats.  Their principal incomes are elsewhere.

This is probably the smartest post I've seen in this dicussion.

 

People keep trying to pin blame based on medical professionals old (previous) comments. Science, knowledge, it evolves quickly in a scenario like this. Who cares what fauci or NFL medical people thought a year ago? They are studied and constantly up to speed, whereas the "internet" experts are fed by news trolls.

[billsfanmiamioh]

The NFL needs to just put their head down on this and trudge along. The protocols are in place, it’s time to roll with it. No additional stuff or moving the goalposts 😉. Once the season gets going, nobody will care about this crap.

[mannc]

1 minute ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

Oh no, talking about current policy. Not changing it. It was in response to the comment about the NFLPA leadership being under fire, which I don't think they are. I think the vast majority of players were more than happy to sign off on the current policy. 

 

The mandate of the vaccine would be an entirely different topic. It's possible it could have gotten signed off early on but not at this point, I don't think.

What makes you think that?