Afghanistan

[B-Man]

 

 

Afghanistan conflict: As Kabul falls, Biden backlash grows

BBC, by Boer Deng , Sam Farzaneh & Tara Mckelvey

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58224399

 

 

 

[The Frankish Reich]

19 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I expect its all down hill for Joe Biden from here barring any unexpected outcome.  And adhering to my theory we're heading for complete chaos I'm thinking at some point Manchin (WV) and Sinema (AZ) are going to change party's as groups like "the squad" and other leftist voices get more annoying and demanding (if that's possible). 

I expect that would be comical.  Watching the total leftist meltdown that would follow.  A switch throws the balance of power in the Senate out of wack and Schummer is out and McConnell is in and all the committee chairs switch hands.  Even if they don't switch it would be unwise to under-estimate the power they wield as the swing votes in the Senate. 

Manchin, yes. Sinema, no. WV is a 70% Republican state. If Manchin can't force Biden toward the middle, his own fate will depend on jumping ship.

Sinema: AZ is trending more and more blue. I don't see it happening.

[Big Blitz]

 

 

 

 

[Governor]

20 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Kabul has fallen.

Every U.S. President, former and current, should be hanging his head in shame.

- George W. Bush: for deciding that the attacks on terrorist training camps and the neutralization of the terrorist threat from Afghanistan wasn't the sole limited purpose of the operation. That had succeeded by early 2002. The war went on two more decades. And for distracting the U.S. military from the mission by engaging in a pointless war with Saddam Hussein's Iraq.

- Barack Obama: for vacillating between withdrawal talk and surge talk. But in retrospect, probably the most successful (well, let's say "least unsuccessful") of out post 9-11 presidencies.

- Donald Trump: for brokering a joke of a peace agreement with the Taliban (the Doha agreement) and insisting on departure on a date certain, allowing the Taliban to cynically wait out the American departure

- Joe Biden: for finally carrying out that departure, either knowingly allowing the descent into chaos and retribution, or naively believing that the Afghan government/army could hold off the assault.

 

My take on it: Trump kept our troops in not so much to avoid chaos, but to postpone chaos until after the election. Biden allowed this to happen right away, hoping the debacle will be largely forgotten by the time 2024 rolls around.

 

What a mess.

 

Your take is correct. You have an increasingly rare skill where you can analyze an issue, remove the noise, and predict how it will play out over time in a country that chases a 24-hour news cycle which consists mostly of manufactured outrage and spin.

 

What may seem really easy for you, is quite difficult for most.

 

One poster even said that this event will define Biden’s presidency, as if we are still living in the 1970’s.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Governor

[T master]

This Pres. just makes knee jerk decisions with little to no thought put into it and those that surround him don't seem to help with the fore thought .

[RiotAct]

12 minutes ago, Governor said:

 

One poster even said that this event will define Biden’s presidency, as if we are still living in the 1970’s.

I mean, we’ll see how things play out.  It may or may not.

[Westside]

Worst president ever!!! It’s not even close!

[Governor]

1 minute ago, RiotAct said:

I mean, we’ll see how things play out.  It may or may not.

I always knew that voters would choose the most boring candidate ever (Biden) after 4 years of idiocy and chaos (Trump), but it won’t be THAT boring where this would define a presidency.

[B-Man]

 

 

Joe Biden Remains Hiding at Camp David After Afghanistan Collapses; May Address Nation in the ‘Next Few Days’

by Charlie Spiering

 

 

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/08/15/white-house-joe-biden-might-address-nation-next-few-days-afghanistan/

 

 

 

UPDATE:  He will do it this afternoon.................................can't stay up too late.

 

 

Biden to address nation on deadly chaos in Afghanistan

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-afghanistan-taliban-5abab9d1a552dc93b10a76973a8b3d25

[Big Blitz]

4 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Joe Biden Remains Hiding at Camp David After Afghanistan Collapses; May Address Nation in the ‘Next Few Days’

by Charlie Spiering

 

 

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/08/15/white-house-joe-biden-might-address-nation-next-few-days-afghanistan/

 

 

 

UPDATE:  He will do it this afternoon.................................can't stay up too late.

 

 

Biden to address nation on deadly chaos in Afghanistan

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-afghanistan-taliban-5abab9d1a552dc93b10a76973a8b3d25

 

 

"Another video showed the Afghans falling as the plane gained altitude over Kabul. U.S. troops resorted to firing warning shots and using helicopters to clear a path for transport aircraft."

 

 

 

The tweet with the video of this happening is out there.  I'm not posting it.  

 

2 people fell off as they were hanging on it at lift off.  

[Niagara Bill]

Been looking at some of the pics of the Taliban taking over government offices.

Looks strangley like Jan 6 at the Capital.😅😅😅😅😁

[B-Man]

Actual news.

 

 

I Am So Sick to My Stomach Right Now’: Retired Marine Reacts to ‘POS’ Joe Biden’s Disastrous Bugout From Afghanistan.

 

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/victoria-taft/2021/08/15/i-am-so-sick-to-my-stomach-right-now-retired-marine-reacts-to-fcking-pos-joe-bidens-disastrous-bugout-from-afghanistan-n1469748

 

 

 

MILLEY MUST RESIGN OR BE FIRED:“

 

Fretting about white supremacy is what our ruling class does instead of their jobs.

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

15 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

Been looking at some of the pics of the Taliban taking over government offices.

Looks strangley like Jan 6 at the Capital.😅😅😅😅😁

i don’t see bear spray or zip ties. Half hearted effort.

[Doc]

43 minutes ago, Governor said:

Your take is correct. You have an increasingly rare skill where you can analyze an issue, remove the noise, and predict how it will play out over time in a country that chases a 24-hour news cycle which consists mostly of manufactured outrage and spin.

 

What may seem really easy for you, is quite difficult for most.

 

One poster even said that this event will define Biden’s presidency, as if we are still living in the 1970’s.

 

28 minutes ago, Governor said:

I always knew that voters would choose the most boring candidate ever (Biden) after 4 years of idiocy and chaos (Trump), but it won’t be THAT boring where this would define a presidency.

 

I knew that people could be scared into voting for a dunce like Joey because they mistakenly believed him when he said he would end Wuhan virus.  He hasn't and once lambda variant enters the country, Joey will be defined by many things, Afghanistan being one of them.

 

5 minutes ago, B-Man said:

Actual news.

 

 

I Am So Sick to My Stomach Right Now’: Retired Marine Reacts to ‘POS’ Joe Biden’s Disastrous Bugout From Afghanistan.

 

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/victoria-taft/2021/08/15/i-am-so-sick-to-my-stomach-right-now-retired-marine-reacts-to-fcking-pos-joe-bidens-disastrous-bugout-from-afghanistan-n1469748

 

 

 

MILLEY MUST RESIGN OR BE FIRED:“

 

Fretting about white supremacy is what our ruling class does instead of their jobs.

 

 

 

Hey Marx Milley, that's what a real government takover looks like...

 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Doc

[B-Man]

 

 

 

"BREAKING NEWS/President Biden will return to the White House to deliver remarks on Afghanistan this afternoon."

 

CNN reports: https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/16/politics/biden-afghanistan-speech/index.html

 

Biden remained at the wooded Camp David presidential retreat with members of his family over the weekend as chaotic images from Kabul emerged. He will return to Washington ahead of his address, which is scheduled for 3:45 p.m. ET. 

 

Speaking on morning television programs, senior members of Biden's national security team sought to shift blame for the collapse of the Afghan government on the country's defense forces, which they said lacked the will to defend their country against the Taliban. 

 

Blame the Afghans. Have they gamed it out and decided it would be a mistake to blame Trump? Trump isn't even mention in the article. Perhaps they can see that to blame Trump is to open the path of blame back to Obama.

 

 

 

 

[Governor]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

 

I knew that people could be scared into voting for a dunce like Joey because they mistakenly believed him when he said he would end Wuhan virus.  He hasn't and once lambda variant enters the country, Joey will be defined by many things, Afghanistan being one of them.

Lambda already entered the country through Miami.

 

That’s why people called it the DeSantis variant.

[Beast]

[JaCrispy]

1 minute ago, Beast said:

Didn’t you know the greatest threat to America’s freedom is white supremacy? Duh...😉

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Governor said:

Lambda already entered the country through Miami.

 

That’s why people idiots called it the DeSantis variant.

 

Yeah, because he brought it in.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

This withdrawal is so hasty… it looks so incompetent I can’t believe there isn’t more to the story involving China and Russia. 

China ramping up Afghanistan involvement amid US withdrawal

https://nypost.com/2021/07/05/china-ramping-up-afghanistan-involvement-amid-us-withdrawal/?utm_campaign=iphone_nyp&utm_source=mail_app
 

https://news.yahoo.com/china-big-plan-post-u-091239086.html

 

interesting 

 

https://tfiglobalnews.com/2021/08/16/a-china-russia-power-struggle-has-already-begun-in-afghanistan/

Edited August 16, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[JaCrispy]

1 hour ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Afghanistan conflict: As Kabul falls, Biden backlash grows

BBC, by Boer Deng , Sam Farzaneh & Tara Mckelvey

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58224399

 

 

 

The Left May be up to something imo...I don’t trust all the coordinated attacks on Biden from the msm...they might be trying to do to Biden what they did to Cuomo...rumor has it, they are trying to clear the way for Kamala...stay tuned...😉

Edited August 16, 2021 by JaCrispy

[The Frankish Reich]

False binary choices, Part 1,000:

 

Either:

A. We finally fully disengage militarily from Afghanistan; after 20 years, if they're not ready to protect their own country, they never will be.

or,

B. We commit to yet another surge and keep our military in harm's way for another 2, 5, 10, 20 years at extreme cost to the American people.

 

Steve Coll (I will re-read his "Ghost Wars" now - it is a fantastic account of the early years of all of this) sets us straight:

 

New Yorker magazine reporter:  You could argue that this shows the Biden Administration’s policy was a mistake, but you could also argue that, if this was going to happen so quickly after two decades of American troops in Afghanistan, there was no way to make this work without pledging to stay forever. How do you think about those two ways of looking at the situation, or do you think that dichotomy isn’t helpful?

 

Coll:  I think that dichotomy describes two poles that represent the range of choices that the Biden Administration faced, and in between those poles had been, more or less, the policy going back to the second term of the Barack Obama Administration—which was a smaller, sustained deployment. There were twenty-five hundred troops there when the Biden Administration came to office. The rate of casualties incurred by nato forces was almost at the level of traffic accidents for much of the past couple of years. So a sustained, smaller deployment—not free, but nothing like the expenditures of the past—linked to a search for some more sustainable political outcome had been visible. The Trump Administration followed that path, too, picking it up from the Obama Administration, and the Trump White House had become quite ambitious about it. It had negotiated with the Taliban an agreement that had a timetable, including regarding American withdrawal. But, until the Trump Administration got to that point, it had been following the same pathway as its predecessor.

I think in between was this question of whether the benefits of a messy degree of stability justified having the small-to-medium deployment that America has in other parts of the world. That is what you are going to hear in Washington. The counter-argument to the Biden Administration’s policy is not going to be forever war and the defeat of the Taliban; it is going to be a critique of the haste with which it pulled the plug on what was not a large deployment, and one that was not incurring a lot of casualties.

 

This required nothing even close to our level of commitment in South Korea, for example.

Read the whole thing!   https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/how-america-failed-in-afghanistan

[SoCal Deek]

Anybody stop to ask why this is Trump’s fault unless the Biden camp is admitting this is a MESS? Pause, breathe and Think about it. 

[Governor]

9 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

This withdrawal is so hasty… it looks so incompetent I can’t believe there isn’t more to the story involving China and Russia. 

China ramping up Afghanistan involvement amid US withdrawal

https://nypost.com/2021/07/05/china-ramping-up-afghanistan-involvement-amid-us-withdrawal/?utm_campaign=iphone_nyp&utm_source=mail_app
 

https://news.yahoo.com/china-big-plan-post-u-091239086.html

 

interesting 

 

https://tfiglobalnews.com/2021/08/16/a-china-russia-power-struggle-has-already-begun-in-afghanistan/

I would think that China is the main reason we’re leaving. They were coming in regardless and it isn’t smart to get into the middle of that.

 

It should be us building that infrastructure, not China, but as you can see, we’re more interested in the rights of Afghan women in a Muslim country.

[TSOL]

17 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

This withdrawal is so hasty… it looks so incompetent I can’t believe there isn’t more to the story involving China and Russia. 

China ramping up Afghanistan involvement amid US withdrawal

https://nypost.com/2021/07/05/china-ramping-up-afghanistan-involvement-amid-us-withdrawal/?utm_campaign=iphone_nyp&utm_source=mail_app
 

 

 

I say good for China. Let them try their hand in that region and see how it goes for them. 

 

Russia failed in that region.

We failed in that region.

Even Rambo barely made it out of there alive.

Give China a crack at that hellhole. Those people will turn on China like they have turned on everyone who isn't an Islamic extremist. Let china pump billion in infrastructure  just to see it blown up 10 years later. 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by TSOL

[SCBills]

Same people telling us Trump had a cult-like following are on here telling us it’s DeSantis fault for covid and Trumps fault for Afghanistan.. y’all wanna just go ahead and blame Boebert for inflation?

[Beast]

11 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

rumor has it, they are trying to clear the way for Kamala...stay tuned...😉

 

I think we all know that is coming at some point and it will probably be the reason we all suspect....he is mentally incapable of performing the tasks associated with being the POTUS.

[Governor]

8 minutes ago, TSOL said:

 

 

I say good for China. Let them try their hand in that region and see how it goes for them. 

 

Russia failed in that region.

We failed in that region.

Give China a crack at that hellhole. Those people will turn on China like they have turned on everyone who isn't an Islamic extremist. Let china pump billion in infrastructure  just to see it blown up 10 years later. 

 

I’m not sure if it was covered in his links but China basically puts these countries into huge debt with these infrastructure projects.

 

When Afghanistan can’t pay, I assume China will take their resources (mining) as payment.

 

What happens then will be interesting to watch.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Governor

[TSOL]

5 minutes ago, Governor said:

I’m not sure if it was covered in his links but China basically puts these countries into huge debt with these infrastructure projects.

 

When Afghanistan can’t pay, I assume China will take their resources as payment.

 

What happens then will be interesting to watch.

 

 

Yes, China will try to take their resources but these are people that drag the bodies of their enemy through the streets behind pick up trucks then leave the remains to be eaten by dogs. 

 

They can't be rationalized or reasoned with. 

 

The Taliban were our allies in the 80's

Edited August 16, 2021 by TSOL

[Buffarukus]

1 hour ago, Frat-Train said:

I like Manchin and Tulsi.  But I’ll be honest…. Seeing what’s become of my party and the fact those two have no shot, coupled with us having moved recently from NC to Fl (and seeing firsthand how overblown the negativity is towards Desantis vs how solid of a job he’s ACTUALLY doing), I may break stride and vote Republican. I can’t unsee what the people I trusted, have shown me.  This is the worst the country has ever been, in my opinion.  The only thing worse than our present, is our trajectory.  People are divided, hateful, mental illness is running wild and we’re no longer a United/ powerful nation, or allowed the simple freedoms we held just two years ago.  Meanwhile Government is expanding its reach, which has never in the history of man, been a good thing.

 

 

 

 

the only hope is that people take a clear honest look at what is being shoveled as propaganda and what is being covered up. many are to lazy to dig in deeper to seek truth. they briefly scan their preferred media outlets big bold headlines and move on as being "informed" 

 

i applaud you for keeping a open mind regardless where that lands you politically. 👍

 

 

[Backintheday544]

https://www.businessinsider.com/uk-defense-minister-blames-trump-afghanistan-taliban-crisis-2021-8?utm_source=reddit.com
 

But UK Defense Minister Ben Wallace has pointed the finger at Trump.

He told "BBC Breakfast" on Monday: "The die was cast when the deal was done by Donald Trump, if you want my observation."

"President Biden inherited a momentum, a momentum that had been given to the Taliban because they felt they had now won. He'd also inherited a momentum of troop withdrawal from the international community, the US."

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/adam-kinzinger-trump-biden-afghanistan-b1903281.html?utm_source=reddit.com
 

Mr Kinzinger, who himself served in both Afghanistan and Iraq as a US air force pilot, has been actively tweeting his feelings about the US’ departure as it unfolds.

 

And as the Republican Partydeleted a web page trumpeting the former president’s plan to pull out of Afghanistan, the congressman wrote: “Trump can’t memory hole this. Real Americans won’t forget.”

https://theweek.com/afghanistan-war/1003748/gop-takes-down-2020-page-touting-trumps-historic-peace-agreement-with-the

 

The Republican National Committee has removed a page from the 2020 campaign that says "Biden has had a history of pushing for endless wars" while "Trump has continued to take the lead in peace talks as he signed a historic peace agreement with the Taliban in Afghanistan, which would end America's longest war," The Washington Post's David Weigel noted Sunday.

[Governor]

20 minutes ago, TSOL said:

 

 

Yes, China will try to take their resources but these are people that drag the bodies of their enemy through the streets behind pick up trucks then leave the remains to be eaten by dogs. 

 

They can't be rationalized or reasoned with. 

 

The Taliban were our allies in the 80's

At the same time, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if China was able to navigate their way through this without getting bogged down.

 

They have entirely different goals. They aren’t trying to reenact the Crusades like we were.

[sherpa]

21 minutes ago, TSOL said:

The Taliban were our allies in the 80's

 

The Taliban wasn't around in the 80's.

 

The US provided support to the Mujahideen in their efforts against the Soviet invasion.

The Mujahideen was a fragmented group of local militias.

 

Some went on to become involved with the Taliban, but the Taliban was never a US ally.

[TSOL]

Just now, Governor said:

At the same time, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if China was able to navigate their way through this without getting bogged down.

 

They have entirely different goals. They aren’t trying to reenact the Crusades like we were.

 

 

China will lose in Afghanistan 

 

 

[Unforgiven]

 

What a mess.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Unforgiven

[snafu]

2 hours ago, BillStime said:

So we didn’t surrender last year when Trump agreed to the release of 5000 talibans and releases the now President of Afghanistan from jail in 2018?

 

The US agreed to leave.  It is a crappy agreement.  Bush was put in a bad situation.  Obama was left with a bad situation, and so was Trump and so was Biden.  Big deal.

 

It's very simple.  Biden could have EITHER fixed the agreement, OR he could have lived with it and been competent about it.

He didn't do either of those things.  This is happening under Biden's watch.  He effed up, big time.

 

[Unforgiven]

It's like tibs, cheering the census and cheering at white people dying at the same time, it's utterly bizarre

But he seems friendly

[TSOL]

11 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

The Taliban wasn't around in the 80's.

 

The US provided support to the Mujahideen in their efforts against the Soviet invasion.

The Mujahideen was a fragmented group of local militias.

 

Some went on to become involved with the Taliban, but the Taliban was never a US ally.

 

 

Acknowledged although I feel it's arguing semantics as they were the father's of the Taliban. 

[B-Large]

a master class in starting with a defined objective, wiping out Terrorists… and slowly morphing into a morass of unclear objectives with everybody afraid to just end it… sad!

[Doc]

32 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/uk-defense-minister-blames-trump-afghanistan-taliban-crisis-2021-8?utm_source=reddit.com
 

But UK Defense Minister Ben Wallace has pointed the finger at Trump.

He told "BBC Breakfast" on Monday: "The die was cast when the deal was done by Donald Trump, if you want my observation."

"President Biden inherited a momentum, a momentum that had been given to the Taliban because they felt they had now won. He'd also inherited a momentum of troop withdrawal from the international community, the US."

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/adam-kinzinger-trump-biden-afghanistan-b1903281.html?utm_source=reddit.com
 

Mr Kinzinger, who himself served in both Afghanistan and Iraq as a US air force pilot, has been actively tweeting his feelings about the US’ departure as it unfolds.

 

And as the Republican Partydeleted a web page trumpeting the former president’s plan to pull out of Afghanistan, the congressman wrote: “Trump can’t memory hole this. Real Americans won’t forget.”

https://theweek.com/afghanistan-war/1003748/gop-takes-down-2020-page-touting-trumps-historic-peace-agreement-with-the

 

The Republican National Committee has removed a page from the 2020 campaign that says "Biden has had a history of pushing for endless wars" while "Trump has continued to take the lead in peace talks as he signed a historic peace agreement with the Taliban in Afghanistan, which would end America's longest war," The Washington Post's David Weigel noted Sunday.

 

None of this excuses the pathetic exit plan executed by Joey's admin.