Afghanistan

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

21 minutes ago, TSOL said:

 

 

China will lose in Afghanistan 

 

 

Let’s see. They seem to be even less ethically constrained than our politicians.
 

They also can stream in a lot of manpower pretty quickly to engage in a low tech war.  

[LeviF]

[Governor]

43 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/uk-defense-minister-blames-trump-afghanistan-taliban-crisis-2021-8?utm_source=reddit.com
 

But UK Defense Minister Ben Wallace has pointed the finger at Trump.

He told "BBC Breakfast" on Monday: "The die was cast when the deal was done by Donald Trump, if you want my observation."

"President Biden inherited a momentum, a momentum that had been given to the Taliban because they felt they had now won. He'd also inherited a momentum of troop withdrawal from the international community, the US."

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/adam-kinzinger-trump-biden-afghanistan-b1903281.html?utm_source=reddit.com
 

Mr Kinzinger, who himself served in both Afghanistan and Iraq as a US air force pilot, has been actively tweeting his feelings about the US’ departure as it unfolds.

 

And as the Republican Partydeleted a web page trumpeting the former president’s plan to pull out of Afghanistan, the congressman wrote: “Trump can’t memory hole this. Real Americans won’t forget.”

https://theweek.com/afghanistan-war/1003748/gop-takes-down-2020-page-touting-trumps-historic-peace-agreement-with-the

 

The Republican National Committee has removed a page from the 2020 campaign that says "Biden has had a history of pushing for endless wars" while "Trump has continued to take the lead in peace talks as he signed a historic peace agreement with the Taliban in Afghanistan, which would end America's longest war," The Washington Post's David Weigel noted Sunday.

It’s going to take decades to clean up Trump’s mess. This is what happens when you mix Rand Paul-style isolationism with incompetence.

 

Luckily, the voters recognize this.

4 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Let’s see. They seem to be even less ethically constrained than our politicians.
 

They also can stream in a lot of manpower pretty quickly to engage in a low tech war.  

They just have to keep the right mouth’s fed and it should work perfectly.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Governor

[sherpa]

19 minutes ago, TSOL said:

 

 

Acknowledged although I feel it's arguing semantics as they were the father's of the Taliban. 

 

It's not semantics.

The Mujahideen, who were grossly outclassed in their struggle against the Soviet assassination's  and invasion were nothing like what eventually became the Taliban, whom were never our ally.

[TSOL]

10 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

It's not semantics.

The Mujahideen, who were grossly outclassed in their struggle against the Soviet assassination's  and invasion were nothing like what eventually became the Taliban, whom were never our ally.

 

 

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/taliban-afghanistan

 

How was the Taliban formed?

The group was formed in the early 1990s by Afghan mujahideen, or Islamic guerilla fighters, who had resisted the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan (1979–89) with the covert backing of the CIA and its Pakistani counterpart, the Inter-Services Intelligence directorate (ISI). They were joined by younger Pashtun tribesmen who studied in Pakistani madrassas, or seminaries; taliban is Pashto for “students.” Pashtuns comprise a plurality in Afghanistan and are the predominant ethnic group in much of the country’s south and east. They are also a major ethnic group in Pakistan’s north and west.

[Chef Jim]

[Unforgiven]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Same people telling us Trump had a cult-like following are on here telling us it’s DeSantis fault for covid and Trumps fault for Afghanistan.. y’all wanna just go ahead and blame Boebert for inflation?

Don't give the mental midgets any more ideas,

all they do is steal everything from the right and reverse it.

[sherpa]

I am well aware of how the Taliban was formed.

I am also aware of US, Pakistan, Chinese, British and Arab Sates support for the mujahidden against the Soviet invasion.

The fact is that the Taliban was never an ally of the US, and did not exist in the 80's.

[Backintheday544]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

None of this excuses the pathetic exit plan executed by Joey's admin.  

No excuses from me. I didn’t posit a position. I’m just posting articles from sources people on here may not read. Sorry I didn’t have the multicolors like the right wing poster who does that.

[TSOL]

18 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

 

"Hey Joe! You gotta try the goat kabobs! They're delicious!"

[The Frankish Reich]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

None of this excuses the pathetic exit plan executed by Joey's admin.  

True.

2 hours ago, Backintheday544 said:

The Republican National Committee has removed a page from the 2020 campaign that says "Biden has had a history of pushing for endless wars" while "Trump has continued to take the lead in peace talks as he signed a historic peace agreement with the Taliban in Afghanistan, which would end America's longest war," The Washington Post's David Weigel noted Sunday.

Of course they did. "Historic peace agreement" 😆

[Doc]

53 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

No excuses from me. I didn’t posit a position. I’m just posting articles from sources people on here may not read. Sorry I didn’t have the multicolors like the right wing poster who does that.

 

Quoting people blaming Trump for Joey's botched exit is positing a position.  There was no die cast and Joey could have nixed the exit plan just like Trump nixed the Iran nuclear deal, or at least waited until they were able to extricate everyone they wanted.

[Chef Jim]

11 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Quoting people blaming Trump for Joey's botched exit is positing a position.  There was no die cast and Joey could have nixed the exit plan just like Trump nixed the Iran nuclear deal, or at least waited until they were able to extricate everyone they wanted.

 

It's all part of the "evil" plan.  Now they can say "the one Trump policy we didn't change or remove completely has bitten us right in the ass!"

 

Wait for it....

[RiotAct]

at least Biden didn’t blame Trump in his excellent, not-rambling speech.

[All_Pro_Bills]

12 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

It's all part of the "evil" plan.  Now they can say "the one Trump policy we didn't change or remove completely has bitten us right in the ass!"

 

Wait for it....

Except for the fact they've managed to "F" up everything else too!!

 

[The Frankish Reich]

1 minute ago, RiotAct said:

at least Biden didn’t blame Trump in his excellent, not-rambling speech.

Well, he didn't blame Trump except in the first couple minutes (criticizing the Trump May 1 planned departure date).

Look, he was willing to own it. We are out and we ain't goin' back. Not in America's vital interests.

 

I disagree -- I think preventing a radical Islamist state from emerging in that part of the world, with access to all the apparatus of a state, including a nominally large-ish military -- IS in our vital national interest. 

 

Back in about 1981 it became fashionable to say that Barry Goldwater's Republican Party "won," it just took 16 years for it to become official.

Well, today I can say George McGovern's Democratic Party has won the half century long war for the heart of the Democratic Party. We even heard it just now with Biden talking about coming to Washington in the waning days of Vietnam and pledging to himself to not let it happen again. 

[sherpa]

In my view, humbly asserted, it is a huge mistake to try to place any political blame on a US president for Afghanistan.

The place is not a "country" in any sense that Americans would understand.

It is impossible to "govern" a group of tribes that have no national identity and rely on the next person who either, (a) is not going to kill them and their family, or (b) is going to provide them their next meal or dollar.

Islam informs many governments, most notably Iran and to a lesser extent Pakistan.

Those countries are problems.

Afghanistan has no gov; has no national sense and is run by momentum in ten square mile areas.

 

Obvious in 1979 and more obvious now.

[dpberr]

37 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Quoting people blaming Trump for Joey's botched exit is positing a position.  There was no die cast and Joey could have nixed the exit plan just like Trump nixed the Iran nuclear deal, or at least waited until they were able to extricate everyone they wanted.

Two of the most damning things I've read about the US leaving the country that are pinned not on only Biden but the US military are:

 

1.  We didn't even tell the Afghan military we were leaving.  We just got up and left.  In the middle of night. 

2.  We prohibited contractors from remaining in or entering the country to maintain and repair the helicopters, vehicles, etc.  The Afghans barely knew how to operate them.  Fix them?  Once broken, stays broken.  A helicopter in that environment needs *daily* maintenance just to remain airworthy.  

3.  We did absolutely nothing to ensure the safety of the THOUSANDS of Afghans that worked with us until there were days to go.  

 

Unless the Trump plan of withdrawal specifically said to do those types of things, that's a disaster that falls on the shoulders of the Pentagon and State.  

[snafu]

15 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Well, he didn't blame Trump except in the first couple minutes (criticizing the Trump May 1 planned departure date).

Look, he was willing to own it. We are out and we ain't goin' back. Not in America's vital interests.

 

I disagree -- I think preventing a radical Islamist state from emerging in that part of the world, with access to all the apparatus of a state, including a nominally large-ish military -- IS in our vital national interest. 

 

Back in about 1981 it became fashionable to say that Barry Goldwater's Republican Party "won," it just took 16 years for it to become official.

Well, today I can say George McGovern's Democratic Party has won the half century long war for the heart of the Democratic Party. We even heard it just now with Biden talking about coming to Washington in the waning days of Vietnam and pledging to himself to not let it happen again. 

 

The 2020 agreement was based upon the Taliban's assurances that there are no "foreign fighters" in Afghanistan -- which is a flat out lie.  Bottom line is that time will tell if the Taliban will allow terrorism to be exported from Afghanistan.  So, yes, it is in our national interest.

 

Also, the Taliban takeover puts huge pressure on India because now Afghanistan is aligned with Pakistan and China.  In our national interest.

 

Also, we're not parked next to Iran anymore.  In our national interest.

 

And, now Russia has to make nice with the Taliban because they're afraid of the other "Stans" becoming less tied to Russian influence.  And China has cut a deal with the Taliban for arms in exchange for letting the genocide continue against Chinese Muslims. In our national interest.

 

I'm glad the US is gone from there, but it could have been handled better than "tail between our legs".  Our country has less than zero influence over there after 20 years and blood and treasure.

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by snafu

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Big Blitz]

3 hours ago, Unforgiven said:

It's like tibs, cheering the census and cheering at white people dying at the same time, it's utterly bizarre

But he seems friendly

 

 

Yep just saw this.

 

Absolutely stunning.

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is a banana republic.

 

I hope we eventually get to the bottom of January 6th!

[Governor]

Don’t forget Obama’s deliberate diversion to focus on the “actual” terrorists to get out of Iraq.

 

What a mess!

 

 

[Big Blitz]

28 minutes ago, sherpa said:

In my view, humbly asserted, it is a huge mistake to try to place any political blame on a US president for Afghanistan.

The place is not a "country" in any sense that Americans would understand.

It is impossible to "govern" a group of tribes that have no national identity and rely on the next person who either, (a) is not going to kill them and their family, or (b) is going to provide them their next meal or dollar.

Islam informs many governments, most notably Iran and to a lesser extent Pakistan.

Those countries are problems.

Afghanistan has no gov; has no national sense and is run by momentum in ten square mile areas.

 

Obvious in 1979 and more obvious now.

 

 

Unfortunately that group of tribes is about to slaughter a lot of people and have no problem being unified.   

 

We've had 20 years to come up with a plan.  Biden has been at the center of it as a Senator and 8 years as a VP.

 

And this is the disaster we end up with today. 

 

Total disgrace.

 

 

 

As to the mission and anyone that fought there - IT WAS NOT FOR NOTHING. 

 

1. If you attack us, you're going to die.  Period.  We are going to take you out.  If you're good with 20 years going by for you to take charge again, then good luck. 

 

2. If we don't go into and STAY in Afghanistan we never get OBL.  Period.  There is no way it happens.  Instead we find him, and kill him.  

 

 

Because we're the greatest f...ing nation in history and if that makes you uncomfortable then get the hell out of here.  

[TH3]

7 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Unfortunately that group of tribes is about to slaughter a lot of people and have no problem being unified.   

 

We've had 20 years to come up with a plan.  Biden has been at the center of it as a Senator and 8 years as a VP.

 

And this is the disaster we end up with today. 

 

Total disgrace.

 

 

 

As to the mission and anyone that fought there - IT WAS NOT FOR NOTHING. 

 

1. If you attack us, you're going to die.  Period.  We are going to take you out.  If you're good with 20 years going by for you to take charge again, then good luck. 

 

2. If we don't go into and STAY in Afghanistan we never get OBL.  Period.  There is no way it happens.  Instead we find him, and kill him.  

 

 

Because we're the greatest f...ing nation in history and if that makes you uncomfortable then get the hell out of here.  

Your a idiot.

 

20 years to come up with a plan?....How about having a plan to start with?

Afganistan attacked us? ...Last time I checked it was Saudi Nationals 

The intel to get OBL did not come from Afghans

[Chef Jim]

15 minutes ago, Governor said:

Don’t forget Obama’s deliberate diversion to focus on the “actual” terrorists to get out of Iraq.

 

What a mess!

 

 

 

How many major terrorists attacks have we had on our soil in those 20 years?  

2 minutes ago, TH3 said:

Your a idiot.

 

 

I hope this was on purpose.  

[B-Man]

 

[Beast]

Guaranteed.

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Beast

[Chef Jim]

Quote

"I stand squarely behind my decision. After 20 years, I've learned the hard way that there was never a good time to withdraw US forces," Biden said during a speech from the East Room of the White House Monday afternoon. "That's why we're still there. We were clear-eyed about the risks. We planned for every contingency. But I always promised the American people I would be straight with you. The truth is, this did unfold more quickly than we had anticipated."

 

So you knew the country was going to be taken over by the Taliban.  How quickly did you expect it to happen?  

[Governor]

7 minutes ago, TH3 said:

Your a idiot.

 

20 years to come up with a plan?....How about having a plan to start with?

Afganistan attacked us? ...Last time I checked it was Saudi Nationals 

The intel to get OBL did not come from Afghans

The plan was a holy war. White Christian conservatives under attack. Now they’re pretending that they care about Afghan women’s rights to score very short term political points.

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

REMINDER:

 

Don't bother with your strawmen.................

 

 

 

[Backintheday544]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Quoting people blaming Trump for Joey's botched exit is positing a position.  There was no die cast and Joey could have nixed the exit plan just like Trump nixed the Iran nuclear deal, or at least waited until they were able to extricate everyone they wanted.

Just throwing out articles of opinions many on this board probably don’t read.

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, B-Man said:

 

 

REMINDER:

 

Don't bother with your strawmen.................

 

 

 

 

My point since day one.  Why I put it on my calendar the day he announced the 9/11 date.   Well to be honest I put it there because I was expecting it NOT to happen.  He went from one extreme to the other. 

[Governor]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

 

So you knew the country was going to be taken over by the Taliban.  How quickly did you expect it to happen?  

It was pretty widely covered that it would only take a month or two. They moved right in because Trump was so deliberate with his actions.

 

I’m not saying it was wrong to do that, but none is this is surprising to anyone.

 

Trump should’ve done this in his first year in office and then ran on the fact that he pulled out.

 

He was scared to do it because the guy gets terrified by polls. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

12 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

How many major terrorists attacks have we had on our soil in those 20 years?  

 

well there was THE DEADLY INSURRECTION on Jan 6, and then I heard someone the other day complaining about masks….. so… 🙄 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, Governor said:

It was pretty widely covered that it would only take a month or two. They moved right in because Trump was so deliberate with his actions.

 

I’m not saying it was wrong to do that, but none is this is surprising to anyone.

 

Trump should’ve done this in his first year in office and then ran on the fact that he pulled out.

 

He was scared to do it because the guy gets terrified by polls. 

 

And when Afghanistan sank into a hell hole of Taliban rule with daily atrocities you would have applauded Trump's move to withdraw?  

[Governor]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

well there was THE DEADLY INSURRECTION on Jan 6, and then I heard someone the other day complaining about masks….. so… 🙄 

I think you’re laying back and taking political shots but you agree it had to happen. It was never going to be pretty.

 

I actually think it’s pretty ballsy move by Biden and when presidents do that, they’re often rewarded later.

[Backintheday544]

17 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

How many major terrorists attacks have we had on our soil in those 20 years?  

 

I hope this was on purpose.  

Close to 100 terrorist attacks on US soil the past 20 years:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States

 

 

[Governor]

2 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

And when Afghanistan sank into a hell hole of Taliban rule with daily atrocities you would have applauded Trump's move to withdraw?  

I actually did. I think it would’ve helped him in his re-election. Lots of my alt/right friends and people in the middle said the same thing. He ran on that. He didn’t deliver.

 

The dude was so scared about his poll numbers. Most people don’t realize how obsessed he was with polling.

 

[B-Man]

WAPO: WHY DIDN’T BIDEN PLAN TO GET FEMALE ACTIVISTS OUT OF AFGHANISTAN? “

 

"In some sense, the Washington Post’s angle here is almost a self parody of the old joke about media bias: End of the world comes; women, minorities hardest hit. In this case, though, this angle is justified, especially given the politics of this administration. Joe Biden pledged to choose a woman of color as his running mate about this time last year in order to emphasize his support for women’s rights and access to power for the formerly oppressed. Apparently that only applies in the US, where the costs for such stunts are practically non-existent. In places where it matters, Joe Biden apparently couldn’t care less.”

 

https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2021/08/16/wapo-why-didnt-biden-plan-to-get-female-activists-out-of-afghanistan-n409129

 

 

 

 American Defeat in Afghanistan Exposes the ‘Smart Power’ Mirage.

 

“Every four years, the message is the same: Trust us, we’re the ones who know what we’re doing. And yet, the oddest thing happens — the Democratic foreign-policy establishment gets in power, and a short while later, so many things go wrong.”

 

https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/american-defeat-in-afghanistan-exposes-the-smart-power-mirage/

 

 

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

4 minutes ago, Governor said:

I think you’re laying back and taking political shots but you agree it had to happen. It was never going to be pretty.

 

I actually think it’s pretty ballsy move by Biden and when presidents do that, they’re often rewarded later.

leaving was fine, doing it so poorly and chaotically is a big problem. This has been an epic disaster. Now a place that hasn’t seen combat in over a year is right back into chaos and we are sending in a new reactive troop surge. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood