Chris Simms Top 40 quaterbacks - in depth Josh vs Aaron

[Stank_Nasty]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Wanna know something else?  I saw a FB post that had Allen, Lamar, Dak and Herbert….you have to remove one and no one of the dozens of replies I read had Allen.  Most was Dak, then Lamar and a few Herbert.  When FB trolls respect Allen, the world almost pauses.

Well…. PFF just ranked him all the way down at #40 in their countdown of top players heading into next year. They also only put Diggs at #45 while AJ Brown is at 38… so at least we have that bit of normalcy still 😂. Schlereth and Cowherd have some thoughts on that right here at the 3:20 mark 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Stank_Nasty

[cisco2403]

1 hour ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Well…. PFF just ranked him all the way down at #40 in their countdown of top players heading into next year. They also only put Diggs at #45 while AJ Brown is at 38… so at least we have that bit of normalcy still 😂. Schlereth and Cowherd have some thoughts on that right here at the 3:20 mark 

 

 

Colin Cowherd has changed his tune quite a bit regarding Josh. When the top 100 came out and Josh was at 88 I think, he ridiculed him for being so high now it’s the opposite. Nice to see those in the media giving Josh his respect.

 

Simms putting Josh number 2 isn’t as much of a hot take as it’s a confirmation to many Bills fan that Josh is really as good as we think he is. Can’t wait to see how he has improved this off-season. 

[Stank_Nasty]

6 minutes ago, cisco2403 said:

Colin Cowherd has changed his tune quite a bit regarding Josh. When the top 100 came out and Josh was at 88 I think, he ridiculed him for being so high now it’s the opposite. Nice to see those in the media giving Josh his respect.

 

Simms putting Josh number 2 isn’t as much of a hot take as it’s a confirmation to many Bills fan that Josh is really as good as we think he is. Can’t wait to see how he has improved this off-season. 

I remember his reaction to that ranking. He claimed he wasn’t even deserving of a top 200 ranking let alone top 100. It’s been very clear from the jump that the players(they voted him in) respected Allen’s game much more than the media over the last couple of years. Same goes for former players/QB’s. There’s a handful of former qb’s that have been adamant about what he would become since his rookie year. Quinn, Dilfer, and both Simms come to mind. 

[Freddie's Dead]

I liked the Quatermain movie...

 

[Dr.Sack]

Josh is good

[Royale with Cheese]

3 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Well…. PFF just ranked him all the way down at #40 in their countdown of top players heading into next year. They also only put Diggs at #45 while AJ Brown is at 38… so at least we have that bit of normalcy still 😂. Schlereth and Cowherd have some thoughts on that right here at the 3:20 mark 

 

 

Those stupid sons of ******

[PrimeTime101]

For me... All that matters is that Buffalo has a QB that is in the conversation. I truly believe Josh leads us to at least one title. If he does that... who gives a flying grass hopper where they rank him.

[Thurman#1]

8 hours ago, wjag said:

 

Unless your TB apparently with a stout DLINE and good LBs.

 

 

It's hard even for them.

 

When the KC o-line was healthy early in the year, they beat the Bucs 27-24, including 456 passing yards. I'd argue that shows a good passing attack being hard to stop even for KC. The Saints put up 34 and 38 points against them during the year, beating them twice.

 

Yeah, Tampa has a terrific defense, though, and yeah, that's a very good thing to have. Can't argue that.

[CSBill]

I have a hard time taking seriously guys who always button the top button ????

 

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by CSBill

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

I am fairly certain that anyone accusing Simms of clickbait and the like doesn't regularly listen to Unbuttoned or PFT. Simms is about as far away from a clickbait guy as you can get, and he hates the social media environment. These are real opinions and they always have good, solid reasoning behind them. Also, the methodology of his QB rankings doesn't take history, offensive scheme, or the team the guy is currently on into account at all. It's "If I were starting a team with a generic scheme, who are the best quarterbacks?"

[Apocalypse Nuts]

On 6/21/2021 at 5:51 PM, eball said:

We have a stud, he'll be here for the next 15 years, and we're going to win multiple championships.  I don't even need to see/hear these analyses any more.

 

You have to admit though that it is really nice to be able to make such a statement about our Buffalo Bills and our QB situation.  I still have to pinch myself sometimes to know it's actually happening.  Heck, I still have to get my mind to reconcile the fact that that stud #17 that's taken the league by storm is actually wearing a Buffalo Bills helmet.  He's changed everyone's perception about our team and just a Bills QB in general it's hard to fathom sometimes that it's really happening to the Bills. 

50 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

I am fairly certain that anyone accusing Simms of clickbait and the like doesn't regularly listen to Unbuttoned or PFT. Simms is about as far away from a clickbait guy as you can get, and he hates the social media environment. These are real opinions and they always have good, solid reasoning behind them. Also, the methodology of his QB rankings doesn't take history, offensive scheme, or the team the guy is currently on into account at all. It's "If I were starting a team with a generic scheme, who are the best quarterbacks?"

 

I agree 100%.  Simms is a big Josh Allen fan, yes, but for real, solid reasons.  I really like the way he talks about things in a not-so-technical way.  You really know that he's saying what he's really thinking as a former NFL quarterback himself and he expresses it in his own words.   I'm a big Chris Simms fan.  He's just real and genuine.

[Boxcar]

On 6/21/2021 at 6:09 PM, YoloinOhio said:

Don’t get me wrong, I like that he ranked Josh 2nd and it’s a good thread. I’m just not a huge fan of Simms for that reason I stated. 

I'm not a huge fan of Simms and all the things like that but in this case, I don't really see JA @ #2 as a stretch. Are people forgetting that Rodgers had basically a career year in 2020? Why would we expect a repeat while also expecting Josh to regress? Rodgers blew his 2018 and 2019 numbers out of the water.

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

I am fairly certain that anyone accusing Simms of clickbait and the like doesn't regularly listen to Unbuttoned or PFT. Simms is about as far away from a clickbait guy as you can get, and he hates the social media environment. These are real opinions and they always have good, solid reasoning behind them. Also, the methodology of his QB rankings doesn't take history, offensive scheme, or the team the guy is currently on into account at all. It's "If I were starting a team with a generic scheme, who are the best quarterbacks?"

 

 

And he would start a team with Murray or Stafford or Jackson over Brady?  Or Herbert?   He would start a team with Taysom Hill over any rookie drafted this year?

 

Come on....this  list he puts out is purely for clicks.

[loyal2dagame]

20 hours ago, Old Coot said:

I like Josh He is a very good QB on the cusp of being elite. 

 

His achilles heel is that he holds onto the ball too long.  He needs to get the ball out sooner.  If I were a DC facing Josh, I'd defense him by disguising coverages to confuse him and blitzing him.

 

I also have concerns about his long term durability.  All of those hits he takes when running the ball will add up over the years.

Josh holding the ball sets him up to get big chunks of yards, and it works. Teams tried to disguise coverages and that didn't work and Allen still carved them up. 

If Allen holding the ball longer continues to result in wins,  i don't care. 

At this point in his career,  he's not going to be a dink and dunk passer that gets the ball out just to get the ball out.  Maybe 10 years from now,  but not today. 

Edited June 23, 2021 by loyal2dagame

[YoloinOhio]

4 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

I am fairly certain that anyone accusing Simms of clickbait and the like doesn't regularly listen to Unbuttoned or PFT. Simms is about as far away from a clickbait guy as you can get, and he hates the social media environment. These are real opinions and they always have good, solid reasoning behind them. Also, the methodology of his QB rankings doesn't take history, offensive scheme, or the team the guy is currently on into account at all. It's "If I were starting a team with a generic scheme, who are the best quarterbacks?"

Don’t take “clicks” too literally … I meant that I think he wants people to talk about him. He wants to be relevant.  Whether that be on social media or on here or on sports radio - because he has a “wow did you see that” opinion. That’s how he comes across to me.  

Edited June 23, 2021 by YoloinOhio

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Don’t take “clicks” too literally … I meant that I think he wants people to talk about him. He wants to be relevant.  Whether that be on social media or on here or on sports radio - because he has a “wow did you see that” opinion. That’s how he comes across to me.  

 

 

True.  any of these guys that post these annual list are only doing it for people to click on it.  There really can't be any reason he insists on including a guy like Hill every year.  He wants to stimulate that argument.  It's bait in it's purest form.  No one can credibly argue otherwise.

[GoBills808]

34 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

True.  any of these guys that post these annual list are only doing it for people to click on it.  There really can't be any reason he insists on including a guy like Hill every year.  He wants to stimulate that argument.  It's bait in it's purest form.  No one can credibly argue otherwise.

Clearly he is trying to generate content that will promote further discussion, but that doesn’t mean this list is compiled in bad faith. To me that’s why click bait is a misnomer…I take Simms’ stuff at face value. He seems reasonable for the most part.

 

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Clearly he is trying to generate content that will promote further discussion, but that doesn’t mean this list is compiled in bad faith. To me that’s why click bait is a misnomer…I take Simms’ stuff at face value. He seems reasonable for the most part.

 

The Hill mention is preposterous, worse so because he ranked him last year as well.  He can’t be credibly ranked, let akonr where herwnked him.

 

His other shaky rank placements I already mentioned

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Don’t take “clicks” too literally … I meant that I think he wants people to talk about him. He wants to be relevant.  Whether that be on social media or on here or on sports radio - because he has a “wow did you see that” opinion. That’s how he comes across to me.  

I disagree. I find it puzzling that one could listen to him and draw that conclusion. He's as real as they come.

[Old Coot]

5 hours ago, loyal2dagame said:

Josh holding the ball sets him up to get big chunks of yards, and it works.

 

Sometimes.  Effective pass rushing can get to Josh and force him to get rid of the ball sooner than he'd like.  See the KC Conference title game.

 

Teams tried to disguise coverages and that didn't work and Allen still carved them up.

True but not all disguises are created equal.  If your disguise is a common one & on tape, Josh will be prepped for it but if its a new disguise or a new D, that will cause Josh to hesitate and that gives the pass rush a better opportunity to get to him.  Again see the KC game where they unveiled a new D.

 

That said, I expect that as Josh gets more experience at recognizing D's he'll make faster decisions.

[Big Blitz]

The point made at the 9:00 mark is spot on.  They do this better then anyone.  

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Simms highlights and appreciates Josh’s unique, intangible playmaking ability that makes down/distance factors almost irrelevant—I couldn’t agree more. We have someone special, perhaps a generational talent to make up for all the drought years of mediocrity at the position?

[BigDingus]

On 6/21/2021 at 4:44 PM, YoloinOhio said:

I am clearly a huge Bills fan and Josh Allen fan but it seems to me every time Chris Simms opens his mouth about QB analysis or rankings or whatever, he’s trying to be a hot take artist. It’s like he wants to be talked about - “wow can you believe Chris Simms thinks Kellen mond should have been a 1st rounder?? What is he thinking or is literally everyone else including people who do this for a living totally wrong about him?? ” Etc etc 

 

That could be true on some things, but every time I've listened to Simms the last couple years, he's been pretty darn consistent in regards to Allen. I have no idea what his other hot takes are, but with Allen he's been pretty willing to place him highly in any QB discussion.

[YattaOkasan]

On 6/23/2021 at 10:27 AM, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

And he would start a team with Murray or Stafford or Jackson over Brady?  Or Herbert?   He would start a team with Taysom Hill over any rookie drafted this year?

 

Come on....this  list he puts out is purely for clicks.

I would take those 3 over Brady?  I would take Murray Jackson over Herbert but not the other two (I can't remember the list and am a bit confused by your sentence structure). 

 

I think hes wrong on Taysom Hill, but I really don't think the list is for clicks.  Last year he actually tempered his list quite a bit and had Josh only at like 18 even though he really like him.  He did similar with Burrow.  His list maybe more out on a limb this year but I don't think its just for clicks. 

 

Do you think his picking of Josh and Lamar over the other 3 QBs in 2018 was just for clicks?  Same for choosing Herbert over Tua?  If hes just doing things for clicks then hes had well above average luck.

 

For the other post about KC and disguising coverage, it was some of that but moreover that game was them CHANGING coverage to match the audible and Josh not having enough time to get back into the right play.

[Mr. WEO]

You would not take Murray over Herbert.   Jackson either.  Hill doesn’t belong on any list, let alone twice.  
 

it’s for clicks.  It’s connected to his compensation most likely.  Why so hard to accept that?

[YoloinOhio]

On 6/22/2021 at 6:49 AM, TroutDog said:

I like it…and I like Simms…however, one thing perplexed me: he stated around the 15 minute mark that Josh lives in BUF and works with Daboll year round. That is inaccurate. The argument is true (that Josh is all in on Buffalo) but that statement is factually inaccurate. 

Not only isn’t it true it’s not even allowed under the CBA

[DCofNC]

C’mon man, that list is REALLLY questionable.  I appreciate the JA spot, but Rodgers is still the man.  There’s a lot of love for guys who have never been on an NFL field and hate for 1st ballot HOF QBs on this list.

[Buffalo Junction]

9 hours ago, DCofNC said:

C’mon man, that list is REALLLY questionable.  I appreciate the JA spot, but Rodgers is still the man.  There’s a lot of love for guys who have never been on an NFL field and hate for 1st ballot HOF QBs on this list.

Simms’s probably a bit biased about particular plays. Notably looking at the NFCCG, there’s no way Allen passes up that running lane to the EZ on 3rd down. I don’t think Allen’s surpassed Rodgers yet, however I can see the logic when you factor in the rushing TDs and red zone efficiency. Rodgers doesn’t risk his body like that anymore and there are times when that is detrimental. 

[Don Otreply]

On 6/23/2021 at 11:49 AM, YoloinOhio said:

Don’t take “clicks” too literally … I meant that I think he wants people to talk about him. He wants to be relevant.  Whether that be on social media or on here or on sports radio - because he has a “wow did you see that” opinion. That’s how he comes across to me.  

Well at least his opinions are his own, and not handed to him by his bosses, sure his opinions are somewhat controversial, which kind of over stats what I’m getting at, but at least the number one pass and catch combo in the league aren’t rated outside of the top thirty-five players in the league, like some other worthless outfit ranks them…, Simms is quirky for sure, but his show doesn’t suck like the vast majority of football talk shows and sites do. 
 

Go Bills!!!

[YattaOkasan]

On 6/24/2021 at 5:21 PM, Mr. WEO said:

You would not take Murray over Herbert.   Jackson either.  Hill doesn’t belong on any list, let alone twice.  
 

it’s for clicks.  It’s connected to his compensation most likely.  Why so hard to accept that?

You don't think theres an argument for either Jackson (MVP winner) or Murray (2019 Offensive rookie of the year) over Herbert (2020 offensive rookie of the year)? 

 

Simms was pretty high on Herbert and had him #2 in the class (well ahead of Tua).  That was him going out on a limb last year imo so now youre gonna say hes doing click bait by not having him high enough. 

 

Why is it so hard to accept that this is his opinion and is not for clicks.  

[jlgarsh]

On 6/22/2021 at 12:58 AM, Chandler#81 said:

He’s had a man crush on Josh since Allen hit the crossbar in the practice facility.

 

Im hooked on C. Sims.

Wasn't that Trent Dilfer's QB camp too? They were on with Rich Eisen talking about it right? That's a great clip!

[YattaOkasan]

4 hours ago, jlgarsh said:

Wasn't that Trent Dilfer's QB camp too? They were on with Rich Eisen talking about it right? That's a great clip!

He did it again with Simms two seasons ago at OBD.  
 

agree that’s a great watch though.  That’s where dilfer lays out the fallacy of the idea that completion percentage is the same as accuracy. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by YattaOkasan

[mannc]

On 6/23/2021 at 7:27 AM, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

And he would start a team with Murray or Stafford or Jackson over Brady?  Or Herbert?   He would start a team with Taysom Hill over any rookie drafted this year?

 

Come on....this  list he puts out is purely for clicks.

You didn’t listen to the podcast. It’s not a ranking of “which QB would you start a team with?”  It’s “which QB would you rather have, to win the most games for the 2021 season only”, which is why the rookies are ranked so low.

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, mannc said:

You didn’t listen to the podcast. It’s not a ranking of “which QB would you start a team with?”  It’s “which QB would you rather have, to win the most games for the 2021 season only”, which is why the rookies are ranked so low.

 

I was responding to this.

 

On 6/23/2021 at 7:46 AM, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

I am fairly certain that anyone accusing Simms of clickbait and the like doesn't regularly listen to Unbuttoned or PFT. Simms is about as far away from a clickbait guy as you can get, and he hates the social media environment. These are real opinions and they always have good, solid reasoning behind them. Also, the methodology of his QB rankings doesn't take history, offensive scheme, or the team the guy is currently on into account at all. It's "If I were starting a team with a generic scheme, who are the best quarterbacks?"

 

Anyway, name one GM who would pick Taysom Hill over, say, Trevor Laurence (let alone some of the vets ranked behind Hill) to win the most games for their team this year?

 

[mannc]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I was responding to this.

 

 

Anyway, name one GM who would pick Taysom Hill over, say, Trevor Laurence (let alone some of the vets ranked behind Hill) to win the most games for their team this year?

 

I’m not defending his ranking of Hill, just pointing out that Simms was not doing his rankings on the basis you suggested.  Under his ranking “system” rookies are always going to be ranked low because they haven’t proven anything yet.  For example, Simms loved Justin Herbert coming out, but put him pretty far down the list last year because he was an unproven rookie.

[Mr. WEO]

31 minutes ago, mannc said:

I’m not defending his ranking of Hill, just pointing out that Simms was not doing his rankings on the basis you suggested.  Under his ranking “system” rookies are always going to be ranked low because they haven’t proven anything yet.  For example, Simms loved Justin Herbert coming out, but put him pretty far down the list last year because he was an unproven rookie.

 

Again, it wasn't what I suggested.  I was responding to the post I cited.

 

And while he loved Herbert coming out, Simms put him (the Offensive Rookie of the Year) behind Kyler Murray.  wtf. Which would you want?  

 

He has Taysom Hill ahead of Goff, lol.  

 

 

[mannc]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Again, it wasn't what I suggested.  I was responding to the post I cited.

 

And while he loved Herbert coming out, Simms put him (the Offensive Rookie of the Year) behind Kyler Murray.  wtf. Which would you want?  

 

He has Taysom Hill ahead of Goff, lol.  

 

 

To answer your question, I would take Herbert 10 times out of 10 over Murray.

 

I really like Simms’s draft analysis, but I agree that a lot of these QB rankings are garbage, especially his ranking of Cam Newton, Wentz, Hill and Jameis Winston.  I mean, Wentz and Newton were easily the two worst starting QBs in the league last year and he’s got them in his top 20??

[Patrick Duffy]

2 hours ago, mannc said:

To answer your question, I would take Herbert 10 times out of 10 over Murray.

 

I really like Simms’s draft analysis, but I agree that a lot of these QB rankings are garbage, especially his ranking of Cam Newton, Wentz, Hill and Jameis Winston.  I mean, Wentz and Newton were easily the two worst starting QBs in the league last year and he’s got them in his top 20??

Herbert did have a good season. Interested to see if he can play that well again. He was impressive for sure. He kinda surprised me. I think I'd take him over Murray also.

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, mannc said:

To answer your question, I would take Herbert 10 times out of 10 over Murray.

 

I really like Simms’s draft analysis, but I agree that a lot of these QB rankings are garbage, especially his ranking of Cam Newton, Wentz, Hill and Jameis Winston.  I mean, Wentz and Newton were easily the two worst starting QBs in the league last year and he’s got them in his top 20??

 

Yeah all that nonsense takes away a lot of whatever shine Simm's analysis supposedly possesses.   The inclusion of Hill last year was a major hook to get everyone talking about his QB list (and it worked).  So this year he doubled down on Taysom Clickbait and moved him up 12 spots!!--from 36 to 24.  That's a shameful move, lol.

[Captain Hindsight]

On 6/29/2021 at 8:31 PM, Mr. WEO said:

 

Yeah all that nonsense takes away a lot of whatever shine Simm's analysis supposedly possesses.   The inclusion of Hill last year was a major hook to get everyone talking about his QB list (and it worked).  So this year he doubled down on Taysom Clickbait and moved him up 12 spots!!--from 36 to 24.  That's a shameful move, lol.

I'm in the minority but I think Hill can be successful as a QB. It would only work with SP as his HC but he was decent last year and is a hell of athlete. If Lamar can be successful, Hill can too. Its gonna be scheme dependent, but good coaches put their players in position to be successful