Doug Whaley Criticizes Sean McDermott’s Game Management vs Chiefs

[Buffalo_Stampede]

He's right. You kick FGs vs KC you lose.  What showed me McDermott had no idea what he was doing that night was when he goes for 2 late in the game instead of making it a 2 score game. Just no sense at all. 

 

Imagine the Bills actually scored on that last drive? McDermott would be getting slammed by everyone. 

Edited January 27, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede

[JohnNord]

14 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Brandon and Whaley were failures on a epic level. Easy to criticize a coaches game plan when 3 starting WR’s are playing injured and no running game. I think our game plan was based on the injuries knowing we couldn’t match the KC offense.

While I don’t think Doug’s criticisms were unwarranted, I do agree that it’s easy to criticize when your watching the AFC Championship on CBS and not competing in it.  

[BillMafia716ix]

The 2nd quarter field goal was the absolute right decision. The Chiefs were on a run and Bills had to get some kind of points to gain confidence going into half. If we would of went for it on 4th down and came up short...it probably would been the first nail in the coffin with the Chiefs getting the ball to start the half. 
 

Now the 3rd quarter field goal I didn’t agree with. The same is slipping and we needed to score at least two more TD’s to even have a chance to tie. If we would of went for it and didn’t get the TD, we would of at least had KC pinned deep in their territory. Although it probably wouldn’t have mattered anyway since we couldn’t stop them all night. 

[WideNine]

 

I don't have a lot of beef with his comments.

 

I do think you have to have a mindset that mirrors the winner take all nature of that game.

 

I do think that one can argue, especially with the other team scoring at will, that you have to trust the offense that got you there when they have a chance to take it in for the score.

 

He didn't think they could get that 4th and goal play. Is what it is, and not upset Whaley called it that way.

 

McD said as much in his presser that he did not like what coming away with nothing would do to their morale.

 

It is only fair to ask what conceding your inability to get a few yards does for moral too.

 

Honestly, I don't blame McD or the coaches if they went either way on that call. I can see the pros and cons of both.

 

I do blame them for not having an effective game plan on either side of the ball.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

18 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Brandon and Whaley were failures on a epic level. Easy to criticize a coaches game plan when 3 starting WR’s are playing injured and no running game. I think our game plan was based on the injuries knowing we couldn’t match the KC offense.

He played them. We could've saw more Mckenzie. McDermott failed his team in the AFC Championship game. No need to make excuses. He didn't have a good plan going in and he made poor game day decisions. 

[Coach Tuesday]

It sounds like he was right?  McDermott decided during the week before the game that his team couldn’t run with the Chiefs and he never really put his players in a position to win.  You’ve got to hope he learns from it and that his players have a short memory about their coach not believing they could win.

[BuffaloBills1998]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Whaley and Beane both hurt us cap wise. Beane accelerated the process so he could get the roster he wanted.  We have cap issues again before paying Allen. Beane spends a lot of money on marginal free agents. 

First off Beane did not hurt us in any way shape or form. He got us out of the muck that Whaley left us in and we have plenty of cap room. Idk where your getting your information 

[Niagara Dude]

1 hour ago, Rico said:

Agree 100%, he needed to be hit. Well worth the 15 yards.

Look at all the shots a more healthy Allen took in the first half,  it pays off later in the game.  Frazier blew it with guys just back peddling the whole game,  at least the Browns got shots on him the week before and knocked him out.

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

He did try though.  Look what happened on the goal when Kelcie was wide open and every time they blitzed Mahomes.  It’s getting to the point where if you want get pressure with your front 4, Mahomes is going to destroy the defense 

Should have blitzed well before they got into the red zone

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I've never watched a defense in the playoffs defeat a great offense by playing soft like Buffalo did. The Chiefs don't have the CB depth to matchup with Buffalo but they said we're going to punch these WR's in the mouth and make everything difficult. McDermott decided to play a soft zone and let KC have easy releases and easy uncontested catches. 

[Lenigmusx]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Disagree.... he obviously didn’t have a good feel for the game or was coaching scared. The Bills defense could not stop the Chiefs. They needed TDS to keep pace. A FG wasn’t going to do much there. 

My issue is more with Frazier and the lack of Defensive adjustments. Yes Josh should have run it in on 4th down at the end of the 1st half. We also should have run a few more designed QB runs up the middle. The safety’s were so far off it would have made them play more honest. Finally when we saw how aggressive  The KC corners were playing with no PI we should have adjusted and played more physically. Especially Johnson and White in Hill. 
 

 

Edited January 27, 2021 by Lenigmusx

[Coach Tuesday]

You’re playing against Tiger Woods in his prime.  You have two choices: hit it down the middle and hope he has an off day, or try to hit the snot out of the ball and maybe go down swinging.  Beane and McD trend towards the former.  It’s a middle management approach to sports that doesn’t really do it for me but in McDermott’s defense, he has gradually learned to be more aggressive and ruthless.  Sunday was an unfortunate step backwards.  I really hope we never have to see that approach again.

[Lenigmusx]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I've never watched a defense in the playoffs defeat a great offense by playing soft like Buffalo did. The Chiefs don't have the CB depth to matchup with Buffalo but they said we're going to punch these WR's in the mouth and make everything difficult. McDermott decided to play a soft zone and let KC have easy releases and easy uncontested catches. 

You are 100 percent correct! This time 1000. 

[Coach Tuesday]

As for Whaley at least he swung for the fences.  He just missed.  He had no real idea how to build and run a football team but he tried to collect talent for his coaches to coach.  Everyone failed at their jobs during his tenure - including ownership.

[WideNine]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I've never watched a defense in the playoffs defeat a great offense by playing soft like Buffalo did. The Chiefs don't have the CB depth to matchup with Buffalo but they said we're going to punch these WR's in the mouth and make everything difficult. McDermott decided to play a soft zone and let KC have easy releases and easy uncontested catches. 

 

Probably the biggest head-scratcher for me too.

 

You see Knox release and he is getting knocked around like a pin ball on his drag route.

 

Kelce releases and it is a clean uncontested route.

 

It was a zone concept you play if you think the other team is going to eventually misfire on execution, not a plan I would have against the Chiefs.

 

You take away Kelce and Hill and make them beat you with the run or using other guys and you hit Mahomes whenever you can. 

 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2021 by WideNine

[Coach Tuesday]

Just now, WideNine said:

 

Probably the biggest head-scratcher for me too.

 

You see Knox release and he is getting knocked around like a pin ball on his drag route.

 

Kelci releases and it is a clean uncontested route.

 

It was a zone concept you play if you think the other team is going to eventually misfire on execution, not a plan I would have against the Chiefs.

 

You take away Kelci and Hill and make them beat you with the run or using other guys and you hit Mahomes whenever you can. 

 

 

 

Do you by any chance have a side piece named Kelci?  Your unique autocorrect has been giving you away lately!

[WideNine]

12 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Do you by any chance have a side piece named Kelci?  Your unique autocorrect has been giving you away lately!

 

 

Fixed and thanks for the head-up.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2021 by WideNine

[Buffalo_Stampede]

8 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Probably the biggest head-scratcher for me too.

 

You see Knox release and he is getting knocked around like a pin ball on his drag route.

 

Kelci releases and it is a clean uncontested route.

 

It was a zone concept you play if you think the other team is going to eventually misfire on execution, not a plan I would have against the Chiefs.

 

You take away Kelci and Hill and make them beat you with the run or using other guys and you hit Mahomes whenever you can. 

 

 

 

Definitely. We had to take away one of those players, or at least limit them better. You're likely still going to get beat many times because KC can beat you so many ways but the Bills really had zero chance to win this game unless Josh Allen was a super hero. KC would have put up 50+ if the Bills offense made it a game. 

[JohnNord]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Definitely. We had to take away one of those players, or at least limit them better. You're likely still going to get beat many times because KC can beat you so many ways but the Bills really had zero chance to win this game unless Josh Allen was a super hero. KC would have put up 50+ if the Bills offense made it a game. 

Sounds good in theory, but the problem is the Bills defense doesn’t really have the physical players to jam at the line.  You miss on a jam you’re looking at a massive completion.  That’s why the Bills elected to keep everything in front of them.  Like McDermott said it’s pick your poison.  
 

If anything I hope this loss reinforced the idea that the defenses might have to be more versatile and athletic to keep up with a team like Kansas City.   There are times when they’ll need to make a switch from predominately zone to man given the matchup.  Not sure if the currently defensive players can do this well 

25 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

As for Whaley at least he swung for the fences.  He just missed.  He had no real idea how to build and run a football team but he tried to collect talent for his coaches to coach.  Everyone failed at their jobs during his tenure - including ownership.

Whaley was a terrible GM and had no idea how to build a team.  He didn’t have the ability or the vision to do what Beane and McDermott did.  
 

If you long for the days of Doug Whaley, I have no idea what to tell you.

[JohnNord]

42 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

Look at all the shots a more healthy Allen took in the first half,  it pays off later in the game.  Frazier blew it with guys just back peddling the whole game,  at least the Browns got shots on him the week before and knocked him out.

Should have blitzed well before they got into the red zone

Check Mahomes rating versus the blitz it’s disgusting.  The answer is almost never to blitz Mahomes

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

Sounds good in theory, but the problem is the Bills defense doesn’t really have the physical players to jam at the line.  You miss on a jam you’re looking at a massive completion.  That’s why the Bills elected to keep everything in front of them.  Like McDermott said it’s pick your poison.  
 

If anything I hope this loss reinforced the idea that the defenses might have to be more versatile and athletic to keep up with a team like Kansas City.   There are times when they’ll need to make a switch from predominately zone to man given the matchup.  Not sure if the currently defensive players can do this well 

Whaley was a terrible GM and had no idea how to build a team.  He didn’t have the ability or the vision to do what Beane and McDermott did.  
 

If you long for the days of Doug Whaley, I have no idea what to tell you.

I do agree. We saw Tre White on the 1st series get smoked off the line by Hill. I still think you've got to do a better job taking away someone. Can't let both Hill and Kelce have huge games. 

[Mango]

The problem is, we didn’t ride the horse that got us there, and that’s Josh. We needed Josh in rhythm AND to get hot. The team needed him to walk out there with his balls in a wheelbarrow and let everything else fall into place. 
 

Instead we played conservative zone coverage in D and tried to impress with our run game that never works. Part of me thinks the trying to force the run early was because we knew our WR were banged up. 
 

We had 4 beat up WR starting, one with a broken effing leg. McKenzie has proven to be effective in the slot, and Stills should have at least dressed for some spot duty, if, you know, you noticed your receivers couldn’t get open. I would have made Robert’s a healthy scratch. Roberts is only going to flip the game against KC if the rest of the team is firing on all cylinders. 
 

By the middle of Q2 the writing was on the wall. We should have put the game on Josh’s shoulders and immediately started with the QB power runs and get him rolling. I know everybody is afraid of the Houston game. The other option is what we got out of him in Indy. 
 

I think Whaley is being a bit kind here by only calling out the conservative concepts in this game. The management and use of the WR corps was just as bad. 
 

I like McD a ton. I think he might be the best coach we have ever had. But the staff lost this one before the coin toss. I am not going to call out any players based on this game alone. 
 

I have thoughts on who should stay, go, be demoted, traded, extended, etc. this year, but the KC game didn’t sway me at all. (Except for Yeldon. Watching him block and catch out of the backfield, I think he’s the best RB on the roster) 

[Aussie Joe]

3 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

As for Whaley at least he swung for the fences.  He just missed.  

Anyone here could do that...

[london_bills]

7 hours ago, Process said:

He coached scared. We were completely outmatched, so it probably didn't cost us the game. But he 100% should be called out for it. 

 

Don't know why anyone would have a problem with that. 

I hope Mcd, Allen and Daboll all sit in an office. I hope Allen is asked his opinion and is honest with mcdermott privately. The more time has passed and I've seen some of his press conference, Mcdermott is an inspiring coach but I think he was plain wrong to change what the Bills had done all season and to kick those FG. I think he was thinking of his defence more than the fearless message he had given the team a year or so before 

8 hours ago, JohnNord said:

This clip has generated a lot of interesting discussion.  Whaley echoes what a lot of fans have said about McDermott.  But because of past stint as GM, it’s pissed off a lot of fans.  
 

I’ll say this... I’ve listed to some of these podcasts and Doug isn’t really bitter.  If anything he takes the high road and goes out of his way not to say anything critical.  I feel that he doesn’t want to burn any bridges to get back to the NFL.  

 

I get why Bills fans are pissed though 
 

 

He's right

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, popcornpam said:

If you sit back and play that prevent defense you are neutralizing our own offense because we don’t get the ball back

 

There is a difference between playing zone defense and prevent defense.

[machine gun kelly]

He’s definitely not worth my time, so I’m not going to listen.  I’ll take you’re word for it JN, amd there is truth to the coaching way too conservatively.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Just a couple of thoughts:

 

As mentioned earlier, we should wait to see what 'Cornpone' Nix has to say.  Maybe Coach Stephenson as well.

 

Boxing is...well, "It's a violent game that I personally don't think humans are supposed to play."  Anyone with a webcam can be a pundit nowadays.

 

 

[Nihilarian]

From EJ to Sammy Watkins...this GM didn't know his elbow from his arse. 

 

Most of you are forgetting that "NFL football is a violent sport humans aren't meant to play"...

 

One, in a long list of mistakes by Russ Brandon / Ralph Wilson.

 

I, for one, am grateful for McD, Beane. The Buffalo Bills were just in the AFC Championship game. 

 

95% of the Bills fans had the Bills winning 7 to 9 games this season...and the other 5%, less. 

[Irv]

Doug Whaley is our favorite GM.

 

Sincerely,

Jacksonville Jaguars. 

[blacklabel]

Meh. I get what he's saying. I don't really think he's saying anything inflammatory. He's basically just saying you're not gonna beat KC with field goals. I understood the FG at the end of the half, he wanted to get some points on the board after the 21 unanswered by KC. I get what he's doing there, he didn't want the team to walk away with zilch and feel even more deflated. But I imagine a TD there would've provided a decent spark. I also thought Poyer's big hit would create a spark. There was just something missing on the Bills end. 

 

It is pretty infuriating to see KC be able to defend against them so well in both games this season. 32nd ranked red zone defense and that's all they could get? Bah. 

 

I also now despise Jim Nantz and Tony Romo. 

[Fan in Chicago]

So, setting aside these two points :

- most on here dislike Whaley (agree that he was not a good GM but not a bad person)

- Beane is a better GM (which I agree with)

 

are there specific area where you guys disagree with Whaley ? 

why does his sub-par job with Bills disqualify him from expressing his views on the game and coaching ?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Fan in Chicago said:

So, setting aside these two points :

- most on here dislike Whaley (agree that he was not a good GM but not a bad person)

- Beane is a better GM (which I agree with)

 

are there specific area where you guys disagree with Whaley ? 

why does his sub-par job with Bills disqualify him from expressing his views on the game and coaching ?

 

Speaking strictly for myself, it's not that Whaley and Monos sub-par job with the Bills disqualify them from expressing his views.

 

It's just that their past doesn't qualify them as experts I'm intrigued and motivated to tune in to Ty Dunne and listen to, and pointing out they were in the FO of teams while those teams won Superbowls doesn't change that.

 

If the point is to generally discuss the Bills roster and gameplan and coaching approach to the KC game, from what people have said here it doesn't sound as though they added much in the way of new insights or ideas over what McDermott himself has said in his presser, and less than pundits like Chris Simms or bloggers like Cover1 have offered.

[DrDawkinstein]

I supported Whaley while he was here. But he and Dunne just need to move on. Dunne especially, as he is trying to milk an entire reporting career out of one contact who isnt even in the NFL anymore. Sad.

 

Anyone could sit and pick apart things in hindsight.

 

I think we all know where the Bills went wrong Sunday night. Moving on...

[Not at the table Karlos]

15 hours ago, JohnNord said:

This clip has generated a lot of interesting discussion.  Whaley echoes what a lot of fans have said about McDermott.  But because of past stint as GM, it’s pissed off a lot of fans.  
 

I’ll say this... I’ve listed to some of these podcasts and Doug isn’t really bitter.  If anything he takes the high road and goes out of his way not to say anything critical.  I feel that he doesn’t want to burn any bridges to get back to the NFL.  

 

I get why Bills fans are pissed though 
 

 

I don’t see why anyone would be pissed off at this. He’s 100% right. If you’re mad at this there’s something wrong with you. 

12 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Whaley was a terrible GM and had no idea how to build a team.  He didn’t have the ability or the vision to do what Beane and McDermott did.  
 

If you long for the days of Doug Whaley, I have no idea what to tell you.

I don’t think anyone is longing for Doug Whaley days but he never picked the coach and we constantly changed schemes not many people would be successful in that situation. Many of the players he drafted were solid parts of Super Bowl teams elsewhere. 

Edited January 27, 2021 by Not at the table Karlos

[TheFunPolice]

If you kick the FG you probably lose.

If you go for it and don't make it, you probably lose.

If you go for it and score the TD you've got a shot.

 

1 of those 3 decisions gives you a chance to win the game. Kicking a FG and going 4 and out are pretty much the same thing. You need to score 30+ to be in the game at the end, so unless you score 10 FGs you aren't getting there with 3's. 

[Malazan]

I don't view Whaley's tenure in a favorable light, but that doesn't mean he can't comment on anything. 

 

Also, Sean McDermott has criticized Sean McDermott's game management so it's not Whaley's saying something crazy either. 

[london_bills]

1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said:

If you kick the FG you probably lose.

If you go for it and don't make it, you probably lose.

If you go for it and score the TD you've got a shot.

 

1 of those 3 decisions gives you a chance to win the game. Kicking a FG and going 4 and out are pretty much the same thing. You need to score 30+ to be in the game at the end, so unless you score 10 FGs you aren't getting there with 3's. 

I agree and I also think his aggressive in game coaching on 4th down (before this game) improved this teams output alot. 

Just now, jeremy2020 said:

I don't view Whaley's tenure in a favorable light, but that doesn't mean he can't comment on anything. 

 

Also, Sean McDermott has criticized Sean McDermott's game management so it's not Whaley's saying something crazy either. 

I think it's great that Mcdermott has been questioning of some of his own decisions, he didnt sound defensive when asked in his end of season presser which I think bodes well. 

[TheFunPolice]

I think McDermott will learn from this. He seems like a very reflective guy who is willing to grow as a HC.

 

Sometimes we forget that coaches, just like players, need to grow to reach their ceiling. 

 

Andy Reid is what a coach reaching his ceiling looks like. For years Reid fell short in the playoffs, largely due to poor coaching decisions. Now he has a super team that seemingly can do whatever it wants. 

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

I don’t see why anyone would be pissed off at this. He’s 100% right. If you’re mad at this there’s something wrong with you. 

I don’t think anyone is longing for Doug Whaley days but he never picked the coach and we constantly changed schemes not many people would be successful in that situation. Many of the players he drafted were solid parts of Super Bowl teams elsewhere. 

That explains it then.  If you have a favorable opinion of Doug Whaley, then of course it won’t bother you. 
 

If you didn’t think he was very good, you’re going to take exception with a person in leadership criticizing the coach who was way more successful.

 

Its like Zay Jones saying that Stefon Diggs is too soft at getting off the LOS.  Same reaction

 

Also you said Doug never picked his coaches?  That’s your speculation but I listen to the podcast and he never has claimed that.  Ty also said that Whaley hired McDermott.  So it appears that isn’t true

10 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

I don't view Whaley's tenure in a favorable light, but that doesn't mean he can't comment on anything. 

 

Also, Sean McDermott has criticized Sean McDermott's game management so it's not Whaley's saying something crazy either. 

It doesn’t mean he can’t comment.  Everyone can comments.

 

But you shouldn’t be surprised that fans are giving him push back.  McDermott did what Doug never could in turning around a franchise, so of course fans are going to give him a negative reaction and question his credibility   

[Fan in Chicago]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Speaking strictly for myself, it's not that Whaley and Monos sub-par job with the Bills disqualify them from expressing his views.

 

It's just that their past doesn't qualify them as experts I'm intrigued and motivated to tune in to Ty Dunne and listen to, and pointing out they were in the FO of teams while those teams won Superbowls doesn't change that.

 

If the point is to generally discuss the Bills roster and gameplan and coaching approach to the KC game, from what people have said here it doesn't sound as though they added much in the way of new insights or ideas over what McDermott himself has said in his presser, and less than pundits like Chris Simms or bloggers like Cover1 have offered.

I understand and appreciate your view and you make a cogent argument. My question was related to an undercurrent of dislike for Whaley because he did not succeed as a GM for the Bills. As you did, its fair to questions his credentials as a game strategy evaluator but simply dismissing his views due to his job performance is not the right way to look at it. 

Imo, if Whaley had prioritized and taken a good QB early in his tenure, his stay with the Bills would have been viewed far more sympathetically. Beane has built a good team overall but truth be told, he has not really hit on many of his high picks. As examples, the performances from Oliver, Epenesa, Knox, Singletary have been underwhelming related to where they were picked. I dont want to hijack this thread in that direction but wanted to make a point that picking a good QB covers up for a lot of other draft mistakes

[Nextmanup]

36 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

That explains it then.  If you have a favorable opinion of Doug Whaley, then of course it won’t bother you. 
 

If you didn’t think he was very good, you’re going to take exception with a person in leadership criticizing the coach who was way more successful.

 

Its like Zay Jones saying that Stefon Diggs is too soft at getting off the LOS.  Same reaction

 

Also you said Doug never picked his coaches?  That’s your speculation but I listen to the podcast and he never has claimed that.  Ty also said that Whaley hired McDermott.  So it appears that isn’t true

It doesn’t mean he can’t comment.  Everyone can comments.

 

But you shouldn’t be surprised that fans are giving him push back.  McDermott did what Doug never could in turning around a franchise, so of course fans are going to give him a negative reaction and question his credibility   

The same people attacking Doug Whaley in this thread would have endlessly defended and supported any decision he would have made if he were still the GM of the Bills.

 

A certain % of the people here have this gang warfare territory type thing going on, where nothing bad can be said of current Bills employees, ever.  Once they leave, they immediately transition into material for criticism.  

 

Look at how this board viewed EJ, Tyrod, Kiko Alonso, and Sammy Watkins to name a few, both while on the roster and after they left it.

Night and day support followed by joking and disrespect.

 

It's odd.