Jordan Phillips and Shaq Lawson

[TroutDog]

There were many TBD GM’s who commented on Beane’s stupidity to let them both walk. Hmmmmmm. 
 

Shaq was non-existent on the field in their last game (literally ZERO stats) and Phillips has a TOTAL of ten tackles, an assist and two sacks. https://www.nfl.com/players/jordan-phillips/stats/career
 

Looking at reality, who was right, Beane or the individuals who called these decisions poor? For me it is fairly clear that Beane was. 
 

With that being said, the defenses around the NFL were hung out to dry this year with no time to gel. That is why I hate what the NFLPA arguing for not having any preseason work: the play on the field was, definitively, less than what we have come to expect from a defensive standpoint. 
 

Anyway, I digress. Thoughts on letting those two go?

Edited January 4, 2021 by TroutDog

[BADOLBILZ]

 

As I said at the time......well done by McBeane not giving Shaq the 5th year extension.

 

That's the only reason they got any good football out of him at all.

 

Jordan Phillips was a long prior proven unaccountable dude on a contract run as well.

 

They got the most out of both of them.

 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

1 minute ago, TroutDog said:

There were many TBD GM’s who commented on Beane’s stupidity to let them both walk. Hmmmmmm. 
 

Shaq was non-existent on the field in their last game (literally ZERO stats) and Phillips has a TOTAL of ten tackles, an assist and two sacks. https://www.nfl.com/players/jordan-phillips/stats/career
 

Looking at reality, who was right, Beane or the individuals who called these decisions poor? For me it is fairly clear that Beane was. 
 

With that being said, the defenses around the NFL were hung out to dry this year with no time to gel. That is why I hate what the NFLPA arguing for not having any preseason work: the play on the field was, definitively, less than what we have come to expect from a defensive standpoint. 
 

Anyway, I digress. Thoughts on letting those two go?

 

Big Stuff was hurt for a lot of the season, so you can't just look at his stat line.

 

I really wish we had paid him because he was a lot like Dion... his attitude and playfulness was something that our D line fed off of. 

 

I'd take Phillips and another DE over Addison, but that's just my opinion. 

[delirious]

Yeah I wasn't high on them and glad they didn't return. 

 

I appreciated Shaq his last year. And I loved Jordan Phillips's hype.  He'd always be throwing his hands up to get the crowd pumping or after a sack he'd smack his thigh pads. He made me want to jump through a wall a couple times. 

 

Hopefully they let Addison, Jefferson (maybe butler) walk to try to keep Mango, Williams, and Milano. 

[papazoid]

neither was worth what they got.....beane wins

[TroutDog]

Just now, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

Big Stuff was hurt for a lot of the season, so you can't just look at his stat line.

 

I really wish we had paid him because he was a lot like Dion... his attitude and playfulness was something that our D line fed off of. 

 

I'd take Phillips and another DE over Addison, but that's just my opinion. 

I won’t argue that other than saying if you knew they’d be where they are now would you still argue to pay him?

 

I loved the guy but the results are in the puddin’, as they say. 😃 

1 minute ago, papazoid said:

neither was worth what they got.....beane wins

Agreed...obviously. 😃 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Just now, TroutDog said:

I won’t argue that other than saying if you knew they’d be where they are now would you still argue to pay him?

 

I loved the guy but the results are in the puddin’, as they say. 😃 

 

Results in Arizona are from their team, not from ours really... I just wish he had stayed.

 

The Bills not drafting Dobbins and drafting Moss instead was where I got pissed off... but ohh well, I'm not complaining one bit. Que sera, sera

[Don Otreply]

Well, when your GM drafts the Mandalorian as your teams QB, he’s bound to be right more frequently that the fans..., just sayin 

 

Go Bills!!!

[atlbillsfan1975]

Beane knows his own players. Literally the only slip up of his has been Wyatt Teller. Even that wasn’t a total loss, Beane got a pick back for Teller. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by atlbillsfan1975

[TroutDog]

Just now, Don Otreply said:

Well, when your GM drafts the Mandalorian as your teams QB, he’s bound to be right more frequently that the fans..., just sayin 

 

Go Bills!!!

I’m still holding on for finishing season two...and am taking a ton of heat from friends for it as they want to discuss! Been too wrapped up in Bills football! 🦬🏈

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I was fine letting Phillips walk for the money he was being offered. They had already drafted Oliver and there was no way they were keeping Phillips.

I posted at the time and still stand by they should have picked up Lawson's 5th year option and let Murphy walk.  Murphy has been terrible his entire Bills career.  Lawson has had some moments and was by far the better player in 2019.  I will admit I didn't follow him at all this year so I won't offer commentary on his performance. All I know is Murphy was inactive during the time the defense played the best this year and likely won't be active in the playoffs barring injury. 

Either way, they still have a hole at DE.  Johnson didn't make any strides and Hughes/Addison are old.  

 

I did not like the Epenesa pick either, but I do like what they asked him to do. I like him more at a quick 260 than a slow 285.  

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

Big Stuff was hurt for a lot of the season, so you can't just look at his stat line.

 

I really wish we had paid him because he was a lot like Dion... his attitude and playfulness was something that our D line fed off of. 

 

I'd take Phillips and another DE over Addison, but that's just my opinion. 

 

 

Big Stuff was Dareus.

 

Some fans just love irreverent clowns like Phillips and Stevie Johnson.

 

One of the worst things about the drought was seeing a generation of fans who only knew losing learn to idolize losers like that who would selfishly put themselves in front of the team with stupid personal foul penalties and bulletin board material etc..

 

McBeane has done a good job managing a range of personalities but giving dudes like that big money makes it even harder to reign in their antics.

 

[Domitian]

17 minutes ago, TroutDog said:

There were many TBD GM’s who commented on Beane’s stupidity to let them both walk. Hmmmmmm. 
 

Shaq was non-existent on the field in their last game (literally ZERO stats) and Phillips has a TOTAL of ten tackles, an assist and two sacks. https://www.nfl.com/players/jordan-phillips/stats/career
 

Looking at reality, who was right, Beane or the individuals who called these decisions poor? For me it is fairly clear that Beane was. 
 

With that being said, the defenses around the NFL were hung out to dry this year with no time to gel. That is why I hate what the NFLPA arguing for not having any preseason work: the play on the field was, definitively, less than what we have come to expect from a defensive standpoint. 
 

Anyway, I digress. Thoughts on letting those two go?

 

Neither were "right".  Both players were likely a product of the system and their role in it.  If they had come back, there's a good chance they'd have kept up their level of play in the same system.  Neither were good enough to excel on their own outside of Buffalo.  There's a good case to make that they should have been kept regardless of what they've done with other teams.  That being said, the cap space can be used elsewhere.  

[TroutDog]

1 minute ago, Domitian said:

 

Neither were "right".  Both players were likely a product of the system and their role in it.  If they had come back, there's a good chance they'd have kept up their level of play in the same system.  Neither were good enough to excel on their own outside of Buffalo.  There's a good case to make that they should have been kept regardless of what they've done with other teams.  That being said, the cap space can be used elsewhere.  

Ok...seems to be quite a bit of guessing in there but if that’s how you feel. 

[ChevyVanMiller]

20 minutes ago, TroutDog said:

There were many TBD GM’s who commented on Beane’s stupidity to let them both walk. Hmmmmmm. 
 

Shaq was non-existent on the field in their last game (literally ZERO stats) and Phillips has a TOTAL of ten tackles, an assist and two sacks. https://www.nfl.com/players/jordan-phillips/stats/career
 

Looking at reality, who was right, Beane or the individuals who called these decisions poor? For me it is fairly clear that Beane was. 
 

With that being said, the defenses around the NFL were hung out to dry this year with no time to gel. That is why I hate what the NFLPA arguing for not having any preseason work: the play on the field was, definitively, less than what we have come to expect from a defensive standpoint. 
 

Anyway, I digress. Thoughts on letting those two go?

Expect much of the same rhetoric being sprouted around here when Beane lets Darryl Williams walk this off-season.

[nedboy7]

Some good old ex Bills bashing!!  It had been a while. 

[Domitian]

1 minute ago, TroutDog said:

Ok...seems to be quite a bit of guessing in there but if that’s how you feel. 

 

Isn't the forum for discussion of ideas like that?

[TroutDog]

Just now, nedboy7 said:

Some good old ex Bills bashing!!  It had been a while. 

Please...I’m not bashing them. I loved them both when they were here and look at my history: I pull for any young guy to get chances to a fault. 

2 minutes ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

Expect much of the same rhetoric being sprouted around here when Beane lets Darryl Williams walk this off-season.

Not the same, in my opinion. 

1 minute ago, Domitian said:

 

Isn't the forum for discussion of ideas like that?

Sure, if you provide some facts. 
 

I’m not belittling you, just commented on your post. 

[Malazan]

I don't know about Phillips, but Lawson is an afterthought in Miami. He is going to have to work to hold onto a starting spot next season. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by jeremy2020

[Magox]

One of many good moves.  Trading away Marcel and Watkins were very unpopular with some of the fan base and now it’s indisputable that they were the right moves.  Same with Phillips and Shaq, even though they produced and were fan favorites they weren’t worth what some in the open market were willing to pay.   
 

Now we gotta see what they do with Milano.  Personally I’d love to see them sign him to another deal, just not sure they will do it.   We have an OT that we need to sign and that probably ends up more of a priority.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

7 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Big Stuff was Dareus.

 

Some fans just love irreverent clowns like Phillips and Stevie Johnson.

 

One of the worst things about the drought was seeing a generation of fans who only knew losing learn to idolize losers like that who would selfishly put themselves in front of the team with stupid personal foul penalties and bulletin board material etc..

 

McBeane has done a good job managing a range of personalities but giving dudes like that big money makes it even harder to reign in their antics.

 

 

Idolize losers???

 

IN NO WAY did Jordan Phillips selfishly put himself ahead of the team. I don't know what personal animus you have against him, but he's not a Bill because of his FA salary number and not because of his conduct or his immaturity. He came from Miami and a Gase led team that treated players like crap... then he played here and really had an impact.

 

You can hate the past way of doing business, but don't take it out on me or try to rewrite the history from last season.

[HOUSE]

I forgot they were gone

[bigK14094]

6 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

I don't know about Phillips, but Lawson is an afterthought in Miami. He is going to to work to hold onto a starting spot next season. 

For 10 mil a season.

[T master]

I figured both would want to have a big game against the Bills for letting them walk but i didn't here Phillips name in the AZ game and was wondering what Shack did thanks for posting this .

[CommonCents]

Phillips was one of the most emotional guys, maybe fans returning will help him. He was fun to watch.

 

Lawson was always meh. 

[RochesterLifer]

30 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

Big Stuff was hurt for a lot of the season, so you can't just look at his stat line.

 

I really wish we had paid him because he was a lot like Dion... his attitude and playfulness was something that our D line fed off of. 

 

I'd take Phillips and another DE over Addison, but that's just my opinion. 

Except Dion is consistent, accountable and among the league’s best at his position. Big stuff Jordan Phillips can’t hold Dion Dawkin’s jock strap. And, let’s not forget, availability is one of the most important abilities. Phillips was too much show and not enough go.

[eball]

You certainly didn’t see me bemoaning those losses in the offseason.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

36 minutes ago, TroutDog said:

There were many TBD GM’s who commented on Beane’s stupidity to let them both walk. Hmmmmmm. 
 

Shaq was non-existent on the field in their last game (literally ZERO stats) and Phillips has a TOTAL of ten tackles, an assist and two sacks. https://www.nfl.com/players/jordan-phillips/stats/career
 

Looking at reality, who was right, Beane or the individuals who called these decisions poor? For me it is fairly clear that Beane was. 
 

With that being said, the defenses around the NFL were hung out to dry this year with no time to gel. That is why I hate what the NFLPA arguing for not having any preseason work: the play on the field was, definitively, less than what we have come to expect from a defensive standpoint. 
 

Anyway, I digress. Thoughts on letting those two go?

I think it was smart letting them walk at what they were asking. But both guys are solid in their roles and it would have been great had they stayed at a lower price point.

 

Shaq is basically a guy that sets the edge and will get you a handful of pressures and 3-4 sacks per year.  He is good in that limited role— but not worth paying $30M or whatever the dolphins paid him. 
 

As others have said, Phillips has been banged up, so hard to judge his play. As between Shaq and Phillips, I really wanted to keep Phillips. But the D line has done pretty well without him as the year as progressed. 

[Perry Turtle]

Give Beane credit for signing Phillips in the first place. 

 

Give McDermott credit for maximizing Phillips' and Lawson's potential in his defense and locker room. 

 

And give Beane credit again for realizing their true value.

 

 

[John from Riverside]

I wasnt sure how Lawson was going to do

 

Jordan Philllips had "pay me so I can dissapear written all over himself to me"

 

Yes he had the sacks.....and I loved his size......but for someone as big as he easy he should be better in run support....you worry about his effort after giving him a Brinks truck full of cash

 

And that is exactly what happned

[EasternOHBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, RochesterLifer said:

Except Dion is consistent, accountable and among the league’s best at his position. Big stuff Jordan Phillips can’t hold Dion Dawkin’s jock strap. And, let’s not forget, availability is one of the most important abilities. Phillips was too much show and not enough go.

 

Just saying I enjoyed watching him play, even for a season. That's all...

[TroutDog]

1 minute ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I think it was smart letting them walk at what they were asking. But both guys are solid in their roles and it would have been great had they stayed at a lower price point.

 

Shaq is basically a guy that sets the edge and will get you a handful of pressures and 3-4 sacks per year.  He is good in that limited role— but not worth paying $30M or whatever the dolphins paid him. 
 

As others have said, Phillips has been banged up, so hard to judge his play. As between Shaq and Phillips, I really wanted to keep Phillips. But the D line has done pretty well without him as the year as progressed. 

Agreed...I would have loved to have had them both but what we have seen on the field proves Beane’s point: those guys were better here and the Bills are better off for saving the cap. 
 

You said it more succinctly than it did, though! 😃 

[RochesterLifer]

1 minute ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

Just saying I enjoyed watching him play, even for a season. That's all...

I appreciate and respect that. As you can tell, I wasn’t a fan.

 

Go Bills.

[TroutDog]

25 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

I forgot they were gone

It’s your pills, House. 😃 

Edited January 5, 2021 by TroutDog

[GunnerBill]

The Bills got fantastic value out of Jordan his two years here - he was never worth the contract Arizona paid him. I was letting him walk all day. 

 

While Shaq wasn't a must retain for me I am not going to lie letting him walk only to give a very similar contract to Mario Addison frustrated me. Addison does have 1 sack more than Shaq this year but fewer pressures and fewer Quarterback hits. If I was asked now whether I want Shaq or Mario Addison I am picking Shaq. If they had put that money towards a Ngakoue or someone who I think is more a difference maker then fine. I was frustrated that we gave the same deal pretty much to a very similar player who was 7 or 8 years older.... but, you know, Panthers.

[JGMcD2]

38 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

Results in Arizona are from their team, not from ours really... I just wish he had stayed.

 

The Bills not drafting Dobbins and drafting Moss instead was where I got pissed off... but ohh well, I'm not complaining one bit. Que sera, sera

Well Dobbins was off the board 31 picks before Moss was taken. It’s not like they chose Moss over Dobbins at 86. 

[BADOLBILZ]

15 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

Idolize losers???

 

IN NO WAY did Jordan Phillips selfishly put himself ahead of the team. I don't know what personal animus you have against him, but he's not a Bill because of his FA salary number and not because of his conduct or his immaturity. He came from Miami and a Gase led team that treated players like crap... then he played here and really had an impact.

 

You can hate the past way of doing business, but don't take it out on me or try to rewrite the history from last season.

 

 

I think you better review the tape, bud.

 

He had moments on the field where he was just totally out of control and hurt the team.

 

That's not missed.

 

Nice pass rusher........terrible against the run.........fun guy on social media........but either way the team is much more disciplined without him.

 

[babulator]

I felt Beane made the right moves at the time. In hindsight, I wonder if we could have found a way to keep them both over Murphy and Jefferson. I know we would have had to renew them both, but they didn't break the bank, and we do have the highest paid D-Line in the league.  There could have been worse moves than shoring up a solid young DE. Maybe we even do something different with the Epenesa pick then. I'm probably splitting hairs and I'm aware that there are alot more moving parts in these scenarios to consider, but If you asked me now, Lawson and Phillips or Murphy and Jefferson? it's a no brainer. Im not complaining or condoning, just pondering.

 

Go Bills!

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I think you better review the tape, bud.

 

He had moments on the field where he was just totally out of control and hurt the team.

 

That's not missed.

 

Nice pass rusher........terrible against the run.........fun guy on social media........but either way the team is much more disciplined without him.

 

 

Yep. He made Tremaine Edmunds look like the master of gap discipline. 

[Doc]

38 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

Results in Arizona are from their team, not from ours really... I just wish he had stayed.

 

The Bills not drafting Dobbins and drafting Moss instead was where I got pissed off... but ohh well, I'm not complaining one bit. Que sera, sera

 

It was either Dobbins or Epenesa.  I'll take Epenesa.  You can find RBs easily.

 

28 minutes ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

Expect much of the same rhetoric being sprouted around here when Beane lets Darryl Williams walk this off-season.

 

Not gonna happen.

 

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

The Bills got fantastic value out of Jordan his two years here - he was never worth the contract Arizona paid him. I was letting him walk all day. 

 

While Shaq wasn't a must retain for me I am not going to lie letting him walk only to give a very similar contract to Mario Addison frustrated me. Addison does have 1 sack more than Shaq this year but fewer pressures and fewer Quarterback hits. If I was asked now whether I want Shaq or Mario Addison I am picking Shaq. If they had put that money towards a Ngakoue or someone who I think is more a difference maker then fine. I was frustrated that we gave the same deal pretty much to a very similar player who was 7 or 8 years older.... but, you know, Panthers.

 

I think giving Shaq the 5th year option and cutting Murphy is the best hindsight move.  But it seems to have worked-out fine  They both got essentially 2-year $21M deals, of which neither will probably see the 3rd year.