Changed my mind - Bring back Milano and let Edmunds walk

[PrimeTime101]

14 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

This defense is truly transformed with Milano playing.  I just rewatched the game.  He made multiple plays and good open field tackles.  Maybe it is this scheme. Maybe he is just that good.  Beane can't let him walk out the door.  In an ideal world the Bills and Milano would realize they are both good for each other and hammer out a reasonable deal.  Maybe with COVID and a static or falling cap number, there won't be too much money to throw at Milano by other teams.  If they can't find common ground then they should tag him.  Previously I said let Milano walk and use the tag for Williams at RT.  Now I say do whatever they can to keep him in Buffalo for another year.

 

Edmunds was terrible again.  He took bad angles again.  When he sheds a block someone let me know because it will be his first.  The runs up the gut were in part due to him guessing the wrong hole and just getting blown out of the play.  There is no way he played anywhere close to a ProBowl level this year.  Am I missing something?  Are you guys seeing something I am not?  He was moved to OLB for a handful of plays.  I get it 9 points, why mess with what's working.  But what happens when they play a competent offense that can run the ball?  

 

 

Guess it means nothing that he was picked to go to the pro bowl this year  The second ILB picked. 

 

(4) Master Moats Film Session: Ep. 33 (Buffalo Bills Tremaine Edmunds) - YouTube

 

Has he had his struggles? YES

Is he an damn good ILB In this league? YES

Will he get better? YES

 

Just wondering.. When the first players are picked for the pro bowl.. are they stupid? they don't no what they doing? This is a legit question I'm asking cause Many think Edmunds is a young amazing ILB with room for growth.

[BullBuchanan]

9 hours ago, thurst44 said:

Oh for crying out loud, he's the MLB and 22-year-old CAPTAIN of a defense on a 12-3 team who has dominated five straight games (and he held the same role on a team that was the #3 defense last year). They have allowed fewer than 260 yards the last three weeks. All players have bad plays (Aaron Donald looked silly a couple times in that game where he also had a few sacks against us), but if you've watched Edmunds and your takeaway is that he's a reclamation project or a bad player, then you probably don't know what you're talking about. Making the Pro Bowl this year was a stretch, but it was the players and coaches who sent him there. And say that nonsense to McDermott or Frazier and see what reaction your "expert" take gets. Or most football analysts.

 

Moreover, it's just sad that this team is rolling in all aspects of the game for the first time since the 1990s and some here's takeaway is how we need to get rid of a player who is a respected captain of the team. How miserable. And I will keep mentioning 22-years-old, because it's relevant whereas O'Leary's grandfather isn't and if you don't get that, maybe your take is a wee bit chilly and maybe you should enjoy this team's run and not try to dismantle it in your head b/c you think you know better. Frankly, I'm finding the "he has no instinvts" comments becoming a lazy meme, especially when I've seen him with my own eyes take over games and sniff out plays from sideline to sideline.

 

One other thing you need to remember is YOU DON'T KNOW what he's supposed to be doing or the game plan.

What does his age or captaincy have to do with with being a good football player or not? It's not even an argument.  Dwayne Haskins was a captain up until last week.

Do better.

[BullBuchanan]

12 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Right, if he can't play, he can't play.

 

Thing is, he can. And does.

 

The Pro Bowl only authenticates the obvious. Yes, he wasn't very good earlier this season when he was injured and the whole defense wasn't working together. But he's obviously a great deal better now, as he was last year.

 

People want to see a skull-crusher at MLB, but that's not his game, nor is it what McDermott's main requirement of whoever plays that position in his defense.

 

And yeah, people say that Edmunds is young a lot. They also say look both ways before you cross and others, wear a mask for instance. A lot of times when people say stuff a lot, it's because it makes total and complete sense.

Pro Bowl voting is one of the most useless awards in all of sports. It means less than nothing. He doesn't need to be a "skull crusher", but he plays the game soft. People bashed on Poz for tackling guys several yards down the field, but that's best case scenario for Edmunds. He spends most of his day getting caught in the garbage at the line and taking bad angles to the ball carrier.

Maybe he's had one, but I can't think of a single noteworthy play he's had all year. 1 sack, 3 tfl, no int, no forced fumbles. If he meets your bar of a good football player, I think you have your sights set too low. If he played on the Jets, no one would be talking about him unless it had to so with how "he's only [insert age]" *doge face*.

For a pass oriented LB, give me Deion Jones any day.

[CaptnCoke11]

Matt Milano is much harder to replace than Edmunds.  

[BananaB]

3 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Matt Milano is much harder to replace than Edmunds.  

We have replaced him constantly throughout his career when he’s out on injury. 😂😂

 

 

[MWK]

We cannot pay both of them. Paying two linebackers 25-30 million total will kill us with the cap, especially with Allen’s deal coming soon. We need to pick one or the other soon, and I’d pick Milano. Edmunds looks lost out there and is allergic to good plays and tackling. I probably wouldn’t pick up his 5th year option, and I’d let him walk after next year. The young and athletic excuses need to stop, eventually we need some good play from him. The Pro Bowl argument is also ridiculous, the fact that he was selected this year shows it’s a joke.

Edited December 30, 2020 by MWK

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Just want to clarify. I am not advocating Edmunds is released or even traded this off season. I would pick up his fifth year option and see how he plays the next two years before committing big dollars to him. He is still young and maybe he gets better, but he has not done enough to justify an extension yet. Bills have all the leverage.  I truly hope he is the long term answer at MLB. I doubt it but would love to be wrong. I still think if he is played like TJ Watt is used in Pittsburgh he would be a superstar.

[PaoloBillsFanFromItaly]

I think yesterday everybody played great except for Edmunds.

[JaCrispy]

On 12/29/2020 at 1:19 AM, BuffaloRebound said:

Edmunds has zero playmaking ability or instincts. He’s a highly athletic robot out there.  Not sure you can teach him how to anticipate or make a play on the ball.  He should play lots of pickup hoops in the offseason. Not sure how else to teach a guy anticipation and ball skills.  

“Highly athletic robot”

 

I think that term describes Edmunds perfectly 👍

[JOSH HUFF]

On 12/28/2020 at 10:10 PM, RobbRiddicksTDLeap said:

Edmunds was terrible again?

What game were you watching?

 

Just because one player plays well statistically and the other doesn’t, means nothing. 
 

The goal should be to keep as much of the defense together as possible. Not get into the addition by subtraction nonsense. 

Edmunds has been terrible this year PERIOD!

On 12/29/2020 at 5:27 AM, Not at the table Karlos said:

Don’t remember what team it was against but a couple weeks ago Edmunds stuffed the RB for no gain or a loss on a critical play. When I remember what team it was against I can post a video. 
 

He does make plays here and there but not consistently. The same issues have been there since his rookie year. When looking for the run stuff I mentioned I saw a ton of plays where he came up just short of making a play because he took a poor angle, got washed out of play by a blocker or just made a terrible attempt at an open field tackle. 

Too inconsistent!  Misses a lot of tackles.  Milano is a better LB

[RobbRiddicksTDLeap]

18 minutes ago, JOSH HUFF said:

Edmunds has been terrible this year PERIOD!

Too inconsistent!  Misses a lot of tackles.  Milano is a better LB

Hot takes! Get your hot takes!

[Green Lightning]

On 12/29/2020 at 1:14 AM, Ethan in Portland said:

Has nothing to do with stats. I don't even know how many tackles he was credited with.  Don't care.  I watched the plays.  Go back and watch them too.  You will see what I see.  

Tremaine is a serious liability against strong running teams. I don't see how anyone can't see that. He cannot get off blocks and has no idea how to hand fight with an OL. For his size he cannot impose his will. Like to see him as a cover LB. 

[BADOLBILZ]

On 12/30/2020 at 7:24 AM, Ethan in Portland said:

Just want to clarify. I am not advocating Edmunds is released or even traded this off season. I would pick up his fifth year option and see how he plays the next two years before committing big dollars to him. He is still young and maybe he gets better, but he has not done enough to justify an extension yet. Bills have all the leverage.  I truly hope he is the long term answer at MLB. I doubt it but would love to be wrong. I still think if he is played like TJ Watt is used in Pittsburgh he would be a superstar.

 

 

I agree........I think he needs to be lined up at the LOS and rushing the passer to reach his potential.     No reason for a guy that talented to not be producing big plays.  And the longer they wait the less time he has to develop.    The 5th year option is only guaranteed for injury so they probably have to pick it up regardless.   It would be a major slap in the face to not pick that up after they chose to make him a MLB and then all the smoke they've blown up his azz about how great he is.   Can't pay a player $15M+ per season to do a job at the same level that an AJ Klein can do though.

[{::'KayCeeS::}]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I agree........I think he needs to be lined up at the LOS and rushing the passer to reach his potential.     No reason for a guy that talented to not be producing big plays.  And the longer they wait the less time he has to develop.    The 5th year option is only guaranteed for injury so they probably have to pick it up regardless.   It would be a major slap in the face to not pick that up after they chose to make him a MLB and then all the smoke they've blown up his azz about how great he is.   Can't pay a player $15M+ per season to do a job at the same level that an AJ Klein can do though.

 

AJ Klein can't cover.  Which you already know.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 12/29/2020 at 3:35 PM, HappyDays said:

I think the discrepancy between fan takes on Edmunds and the league's take on Edmunds is because his negative plays are easily visible on broadcast footage and his positive plays aren't. Everyone sees him take a terrible angle on Cam's TD run. But we don't see the passing windows he takes away on a lot of downs. Edmunds is not a stat sheet MLB but he makes a difference on the field. I would prefer to have both Edmunds and Milano here but as others have mentioned Williams is the most important signing this offseason.

cover 1 did a nice job breaking down his excellent play in the Broncos game. 
 

most of his detractors don’t have a clue how this defense works, is supposed to work and what any one on the field is supposed to be Doing on any single play. they are stuck on the Ray Lewis or Butkus definition ofMLB and are clueless about run fits and zone schemes. 
 

As for 49... he’s the second leading tackler on the team, like it or not, voted as now a 2 time Probowler, excellent in zone coverage In the middle of the field and an excellent athlete showing blitz, dropping into zone, closing lanes, etc. and while he had some struggles after the first jets game with a bum shoulder, his recovery and recent play is one of the big reasons the defense has been trending so well the second half of the season.

 

he’s more critical to the defense and More while less splashy I’m sure is getting a new deal to continue leading the defense. 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[MrEpsYtown]

Crystal ball, I think they let Milano walk and do everything the can to draft Nick Bolton somewhere between 20-32. I think they use the money to re-sign Darryl Williams. 
 

To me, Milano should be kept, but Bolton is a perfect fit. I think it comes down to demand and cost for Milano.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Many smart people in the media praise Edmunds 

 

Some TBD experts want him gone.  
 

😆 🤦 

[Green Lightning]

On 12/29/2020 at 3:37 PM, PrimeTime101 said:

Guess it means nothing that he was picked to go to the pro bowl this year  The second ILB picked. 

 

(4) Master Moats Film Session: Ep. 33 (Buffalo Bills Tremaine Edmunds) - YouTube

 

Has he had his struggles? YES

Is he an damn good ILB In this league? YES

Will he get better? YES

 

Just wondering.. When the first players are picked for the pro bowl.. are they stupid? they don't no what they doing? This is a legit question I'm asking cause Many think Edmunds is a young amazing ILB with room for growth.

Nick Chubb is first team pro bowl with Derrick Henry as a reserve - despite Chubb having 700 fewer yards. It means the pro bowl is a BS measure. Tremaine is terrible against any sophisticated running attack. When the Pats first ran, he was abysmal. It was only after they had to pass it got better. 

[ganesh]

On 12/30/2020 at 5:54 PM, Ethan in Portland said:

Just want to clarify. I am not advocating Edmunds is released or even traded this off season. I would pick up his fifth year option and see how he plays the next two years before committing big dollars to him. He is still young and maybe he gets better, but he has not done enough to justify an extension yet. Bills have all the leverage.  I truly hope he is the long term answer at MLB. I doubt it but would love to be wrong. I still think if he is played like TJ Watt is used in Pittsburgh he would be a superstar.

I think that is what will happen in the off season. 

 

Bills will negotiate a  contract extension in the off season for Allen in the ball park of Watson (if we lose in the divisional round) and more near Mahomes (if we win the SB).  

Bills will add the 5th year option for Edmunds so that they will have him for at least 2 more seaons. 

 

Bills will extend Milano, Feliciano and Williams.    They will figure it out to keep the core roster together.    They got quite a bit of change to come off the DL, TE positions.   

 

The only wrench in the work will be if Diggs requests a  new deal.   But since they did give him more up front money after the trade, I assume that will wait until 2022 season. 

 

This team will be significantly different in 2022 due to expiring contracts for senior players such as Hyde, Poyer, Morse,   Brown, Beasley, Jefferson,  Addison and needing to pay young guns such as Wallace, Ford, Singletary, Knox etc. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by ganesh

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

what? 

 

First off, we have Edmunds on a rookie deal for another year, plus the fifth year option. Cutting Edmunds in no way helps free up the money to keep Milano.

 

Second, are you high? Edmunds started slow but has really come along. I don't know what the hell the OP is seeing

[Ethan in Cleveland]

55 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

what? 

 

First off, we have Edmunds on a rookie deal for another year, plus the fifth year option. Cutting Edmunds in no way helps free up the money to keep Milano.

 

Second, are you high? Edmunds started slow but has really come along. I don't know what the hell the OP is seeing

Never said cut Edmunds.

I said I changed my mind and they should bring back Milano. They can let Edmunds walk after year 4 or if the pick up option year 5. That assumes he doesn't get any better.

And he has not come along at all. He is playing as poorly as he did at the beginning of the year just not as bad as the first few games after the injury. 

[PrimeTime101]

4 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

Nick Chubb is first team pro bowl with Derrick Henry as a reserve - despite Chubb having 700 fewer yards. It means the pro bowl is a BS measure. Tremaine is terrible against any sophisticated running attack. When the Pats first ran, he was abysmal. It was only after they had to pass it got better. 

lol....

[Orlando Tim]

This thread was started by someone without any understanding of what a MLB does different than a OLB. It is like comparing DE to DT players. Edmunds has a much harder job and is much more important that Milano. Milano is very good at what he does but he is replaceable by many more players. I hope we can keep both but unless cost is extremely different you keep Edmunds.

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Never said cut Edmunds.

I said I changed my mind and they should bring back Milano. They can let Edmunds walk after year 4 or if the pick up option year 5. That assumes he doesn't get any better.

And he has not come along at all. He is playing as poorly as he did at the beginning of the year just not as bad as the first few games after the injury. 

 

 

Yup. That's what you said.

 

But don't feel bad. People say stupid things all the time. It's a human thing.

Edited January 1, 2021 by Thurman#1

[JGMcD2]

“The lasting image of this game was that of Tremaine Edmunds getting pushed back by guard Joe Thuney for a 21-yard run by the Patriots. The game certainly wasn’t Edmunds’ best of the season because of that play and some others, but the linebacker continues to be a strength in the Bills’ zone coverage, even when he’s not making flashy pass breakups. The influence he had on a third-and-13 attempt shows how his subtle movements can help the Bills force offenses off the field.”

 

Weird... he’s not a great run defender which I think everyone agrees on... but that’s not where his value is derived and what his role is. Good thing the average NFL team passes the ball 60% of the time.

 

Find me another middle linebacker with his length that can fill his role on defense and then we can talk. I’m sure it’s just a coincidence the defense started playing better when Tremaine got healthy.

 

 

It’s not that hard to look at this image and understand what sets Edmunds apart and what they’re utilizing his skill set for.

Edited January 1, 2021 by JGMcD2

[Thurmal34]

neither!

[machine gun kelly]

Ethan, I value Milano more than a number of people, here, and to dismiss his role in the defense that is easily replaceable by a guy is silly.  It also speaks to a person’s knowledge of football.  Then again, Edmunds does a lot right and the MLB vs. WLB are two completely different roles.  These two compliment each other when both healthy.  
 

Besides given they play mostly nickel defense, their roles are slightly different than a traditional MLB, and WLB.

 

The pressing decision is not Edmunds as we have another two years and the cap will be much stronger by tha time.  Milano is more pressing so we’ll see.  Only because of the expected lower cap, and Milano knows he has a much better chance at a better second contract if he takes a one year deal.  He also hopefully will bet on himself showing a healthy year in 2021.

[Thurmal34]

milano is gonna cost 12

 

[wjag]

On 12/29/2020 at 1:19 AM, BuffaloRebound said:

Edmunds has zero playmaking ability or instincts. He’s a highly athletic robot out there.  Not sure you can teach him how to anticipate or make a play on the ball.  He should play lots of pickup hoops in the offseason. Not sure how else to teach a guy anticipation and ball skills.  

I wonder if Ray Lewis does any off season player development?  I was watching him recently dissect plays from the MLB point of view.  He struck me as someone who could be a very good coach.  Jordan Palmer works with Allen, maybe Edmunds needs a similar guru.  

[biggerdaddynj]

Happy New Year to all!!  Let me preface this by (apologizing for the long post) and saying I was SO pumped when we traded up to grab Edmunds, I’m still really pulling for the guy.  He’s still young, super athletic and has skills you can’t teach. I’d hate to see him in another uniform playing the way we’d hoped.
 

However, I don’t know if I’m articulating this right, but it’s like he’s a much (and I mean much) higher functioning Knox (in terms of flashes and then flat out broken expectations) at an integral position on our defense.  Sometimes he just seems not to “see” the field like the cornerstone to our defense needs to (takes bad angles, misses tackles and the many other weekly mistakes pointed out by others on TBD).  Just seems to be missing something that elite LBs have developed after having his amount of snaps.  BUT I’m merely a novice and regardless I am really pulling for him, I want him to be “that guy”.
 

LOVE Milano because he’s been such a wonderful surprise being picked where he was (5th rd)—flip side to Edmunds with his expectations and draft profile pedigree.  When healthy, Milano is always around the ball, gives his all and is just fun to watch—he’s not perfect for sure but he wasn’t expected to be the player he is and will expect compensation as such).  BUT the injuries scare the ***** out of me.  Which means investing a lot of $$ in him scares the ***** out of me.  Losing him would be like losing Kiko (which turned out well for other reasons beyond his control).

Haven’t done my due diligence on the draft and I’m not a college fan (let alone ND)—Rutgers guy 🙈, Jersey Boy, but I’ve read a lot of good things about Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah—“Swiss army knife tag”, versatile, all things or FO likes: https://www.profootballnetwork.com/notre-dame-lb-jeremiah-owusu-koramoah-next-great-hybrid-defender/

Looks like we’d have to make a move to bump up a bit but from what little I’ve read and how he’ll probably perform at the combine but seems like Milano will command $10 million—and a rookie deal for a legit replacement would free up money for Williams at RT and Josh’s protection is much more important to me.  

 

Edited January 1, 2021 by biggerdaddynj

[JY422]

On 12/29/2020 at 1:07 AM, Bferra13 said:

Only thing your missing is the injuries with Milano. Hes very good. Its a very tough call though and good analysis.

It’s not a tough call and it’s not good analysis. Edmunds is 22 years old and a 2x pro bowler. He consistently makes plays, his teammates rave about his leadership on and off the field, he plays hurt and he is only going to keep getting better. 
does he miss a few plays every game? Yep. 
Let him go so he can become a perennial all-pro for the Pats or some other future opponent? Asinine! 
 

every year NFL front offices have to make hard decisions. 
Bringing both Edmunds AND Milano back is not one of those decisions. 

[MAJBobby]

Edmunds is more important and better player then Milano. 
 

it is no coincidence that the defense started getting better once Edmunds got healthy. 
 

Milano if he wants to sign around 8-9 AAV then fine. I am not paying a WLB (easiest position to find on defense) more than that 

[MAJBobby]

Time to identify you core positions. Those are the ones you pay. QB, Elite WR, OTs and then up the middle on defense meaning (DTs, MLB, Safety and one CB). The rest have to be role players or on rookie deals. That is what Bills will manage once they Pay Josh. 

[RunTheBall]

McBeane absolutely love Edmunds. He’s not going anywhere for a decade. Many members here are still having trouble adjusting to the role a MLB plays in McD’s defense. His primary purpose is to get them lined up correctly and protect the middle zones in pass defense. Edmunds is superior in this respect. He absolutely needs to improve his run stopping and gap filling but McD is willing to give up those yards on the ground to protect the zones. If Edmunds didn’t have stone hands and just caught the balls that hit him in the chest we wouldn’t even be discussing his run defense deficiency. I hope he got a JUGS machine for Christmas.

 

[BuffaloRebound]

It’ll never happen, but I’d trade Edmunds to somebody like Pete Carroll after next year.  Given his age and pro bowls/pedigree, I’m guessing Edmunds is gonna be crazy expensive to re-sign.  Get another relatively cheap year out of him next year, exercise his 5th year option then trade him before you gotta pay him Bobby Wagner money.  Unless he learns how to catch a pass thrown right at him or how to anticipate and hit a hole in the next 2 years, he’s gonna command way more money than his actual play warrants.  

[Green Lightning]

48 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

It’ll never happen, but I’d trade Edmunds to somebody like Pete Carroll after next year.  Given his age and pro bowls/pedigree, I’m guessing Edmunds is gonna be crazy expensive to re-sign.  Get another relatively cheap year out of him next year, exercise his 5th year option then trade him before you gotta pay him Bobby Wagner money.  Unless he learns how to catch a pass thrown right at him or how to anticipate and hit a hole in the next 2 years, he’s gonna command way more money than his actual play warrants.  

This is where I am. Sinking cap busting coin on a guy who excels at 60% of the job is tough to take. For the money he will command there should be a history of game changing plays and there just isn't. I'd like to keep him to see if he improves but at what cost? Right now I am just hoping we don't see the Titans in the playoffs.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, RunTheBall said:

McBeane absolutely love Edmunds. He’s not going anywhere for a decade. Many members here are still having trouble adjusting to the role a MLB plays in McD’s defense. His primary purpose is to get them lined up correctly and protect the middle zones in pass defense. Edmunds is superior in this respect. He absolutely needs to improve his run stopping and gap filling but McD is willing to give up those yards on the ground to protect the zones. If Edmunds didn’t have stone hands and just caught the balls that hit him in the chest we wouldn’t even be discussing his run defense deficiency. I hope he got a JUGS machine for Christmas.

 

If that is all you ask of a MLB then you don't need to pay him 10 or 15 million a year. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

Time to identify you core positions. Those are the ones you pay. QB, Elite WR, OTs and then up the middle on defense meaning (DTs, MLB, Safety and one CB). The rest have to be role players or on rookie deals. That is what Bills will manage once they Pay Josh. 

Funny the Bills are about to win 13 games doing almost the exact opposite of what you are suggesting. They have a QB, MLB, top two CBs( yes White was extended but still on rookie deal this year) and a couple DTs on rookie deals. They do have a lot of money invested in the WR spot. The highest paid linemen is the center.  

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Funny the Bills are about to win 13 games doing almost the exact opposite of what you are suggesting. They have a QB, MLB, top two CBs( yes White was extended but still on rookie deal this year) and a couple DTs on rookie deals. They do have a lot of money invested in the WR spot. The highest paid linemen is the center.  

Yep but QB on a Rookie Deal. Once Allen gets his 35+M a year things will change. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

6 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Yep but QB on a Rookie Deal. Once Allen gets his 35+M a year things will change. 

Exaclty and if they pay Edmunds top 3 MLB money to line up the defense and drop into zone and make virtually no jmpact plays all year then they are crazy

Hopefully I am wrong and he fulfills his potential next year. Having a great MLB that is only 23 for another 4 or 5 years beyond 2021 would set them up for consistent success.