Chris Simms Top 10 Qbs

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

100% disagree with the Jackson comparison when it comes to murray. Murray is a much better thrower of the football. He'll have a career in the pocket by the time his legs give out.

 

 

I agree. He can throw it. He's damn good. And a year younger than Josh. He's got a lot of developing to do.

[Thurman#1]

9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

? - What I meant is that older qbs who have been elite for a while and can quickly diagnose every defense thrown at them don't have to rely on mobility like virtually every other qb in the league. Lack of mobility is a key reason why Josh Rosen is a failure.  I'm sorry I didn't mention Rodgers, but I certainly include him in that group along with Roethlisberger and to a lesser extent Rivers (whose extreme lack of mobility will kill him in the end, as it always does). 

 

As for sack rate, please explain your mocking laughs. It's a really important stat that tells you a lot about a QBs ability to quickly diagnose plays and avoid drive killing sacks. Carson Wentz's slow recognition this season and his constant inability to get rid of it quickly has led to a 9.3 percent sack rate. It is killing the Eagles this season. Also, I didn't think this needed to be relitigated because it's so obvious, but the reason that Flutie was so much more effective than Rob Johnson is that both played behind the same line, but while Flutie had a low sack rate, Johnson accumulated the highest sack rate in NFL history. Sacks kill drives--plain and simple.   

 

 

Agree about the re-litigation but it isn't clear that Flutie was significantly more effective than RJ. If we'd had him before he lost his arm strength he might really have been something. But we didn't. Teams could strangle Flutie-led teams as they didn't have to defend the whole field against him.

 

Neither guy was very good.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Thurman#1

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I agree. He can throw it. He's damn good. And a year younger than Josh. He's got a lot of developing to do.

Like I said, I think he's a fine QB that is getting a lot of hype. That's the Jackson comparison I agree with, not necessarily their skillset. I think it's clear Murray is a more competent passer of the football at this point.

[Thurman#1]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Like I said, I think he's a fine QB that is getting a lot of hype. That's the Jackson comparison I agree with, not necessarily their skillset. I think it's clear Murray is a more competent passer of the football at this point.

 

 

Ah, I see. Fair enough.

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Like I said, I think he's a fine QB that is getting a lot of hype. That's the Jackson comparison I agree with, not necessarily their skillset. I think it's clear Murray is a more competent passer of the football at this point.

Yeah, he's a much better natural passer than Jackson. People forget he was drafted #10 overall by the A's to play center field. You have to have a great arm AND be highly mobile to play CF in MLB. The best athletes in MLB are SS, 2B, and CF.  

[NickelCity]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Fair, but as I've stated also, we see less long balls and completions there.

 

Just a minor quibble, that I'm watching.

 

My understanding is the opposing secondaries are taking away the deep and intermediate/deep throws, knowing that he's a guy that wants to push the ball downfield. I think he's taking a bit longer because he wants the yards, and then settles for a short pass.

[JESSEFEFFER]

14 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

#5! Simms loves his “ Boy Blue”. 
 

Starts at the 11:40 mark and he once again absolutely SLAYS the people still pushing the inaccuracy narrative. He also, without mentioning names, killed Aikman for his slanted take on Allen earlier in the year. Loved it. 

He did mention Bradshaw by name.  Specifically how bad he was for multiple years when he entered the NFL and then improved which is what he claimed couldn't be done 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

14 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

#5! Simms loves his “ Boy Blue”. 
 

Starts at the 11:40 mark and he once again absolutely SLAYS the people still pushing the inaccuracy narrative. He also, without mentioning names, killed Aikman for his slanted take on Allen earlier in the year. Loved it. 

Aikman came around and admitted he was wrong in his belief that inaccuracy was not fixable. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

56 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Neither guy was very good.

this was the answer in that debate.  The rest is splitting hairs.

[Process]

People are underestimating how much having no threat at RB or TE is hurting our offense. There were a lot of cases where the Cardinals were able to blanket our WRs and we have no one else to attack them with. 

 

Bills desperately need a playmaker at RB or TE or both and then I think we'll see Josh take another big step forward. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Process

[Stank_Nasty]

14 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Aikman came around and admitted he was wrong in his belief that inaccuracy was not fixable. 

before the game? because during it he wasnt very reasonable about it.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Just now, Stank_Nasty said:

before the game? because during it he wasnt very reasonable about it.

don’t remember when. 

[Stank_Nasty]

Just now, Process said:

People are underestimating how much having no threat at RB or TE is hurting our offense. The Cardinals for the most part blanketed our WRs and we have no one else to attack them with. 

 

Bills desperately need a playmaker at RB or TE or both and then I think we'll see Josh take another big step forward. 

right. the biggest issue is the fact that defenses dont even have to dedicate anymore than their front 4 to stop our run. they can literally play for coverage all game and still render the run game obsolete.

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

don’t remember when. 

well before that game he admitted he was coming around and then the game happened and all bets were off..... then bradshaw came in with haymakers the whole halftime show. 

[Putin]

1 minute ago, Process said:

People are underestimating how much having no threat at RB or TE is hurting our offense. The Cardinals for the most part blanketed our WRs and we have no one else to attack them with. 

 

Bills desperately need a playmaker at RB or TE or both and then I think we'll see Josh take another big step forward. 

Those are all obvious points but we have another weapon that (IMO) should be even more involved in this offense is Beasley , 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

6 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

right. the biggest issue is the fact that defenses dont even have to dedicate anymore than their front 4 to stop our run. they can literally play for coverage all game and still render the run game obsolete.

well before that game he admitted he was coming around and then the game happened and all bets were off..... then bradshaw came in with haymakers the whole halftime show. 

here is what I found from an article of the coverage of kc game. Yeah Bradshaw still isn’t sold. Ironic given bradshaws play. 

 

 

Proving Him Wrong: Noting Allen’s improving stats this season after completing 56% in college, Aikman said the quarterback was proving his theory wrong that you can’t improve accuracy. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Process]

Just now, Putin said:

Those are all obvious points but we have another weapon that (IMO) should be even more involved in this offense is Beasley , 

He is on pace for more than 1,000 yards and the best year of his career. You can't really expect to get much more than that out of a slot, #3 WR.. 

 

It actually shows how dependent we are our on our wide outs and how vulnerable we are if teams are able to take them away. 

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

right. the biggest issue is the fact that defenses dont even have to dedicate anymore than their front 4 to stop our run. they can literally play for coverage all game and still render the run game obsolete.

Yup and not just coverage- they can just shade everything to WRs because we have no tight end threats either. What makes Allen's season so remarkable is that it's literally the only threat we have and every team we play knows it. That's why when Brown goes down it falls apart- the entire Bills offense is Allen to wideouts and basically nothing else.

[msw2112]

A few thoughts on thing said here: 

 

1)  I recall Aikman saying that Allen had proven him wrong about improving accuracy.  I don't remember when he said it, but I didn't watch the pregame, so it had to have been during the game;

 

2) I think that most of the narrative about Allen these days is positive and many of his critics are admitting they were wrong (and they were);

 

3)  I think Allen is better than Murray, but Murray (who I'm not a fan of) is pretty good.  He's a great athlete and a very smart player who runs extremely effectively without taking hits.  His team believes in him and he makes a lot of plays.  I do think that teams will adjust and slow him down when they get more film on him, as has happened to Lamar a bit and as happened (as well as injury) to RG3 a few years back.  I'm not a fan of Oklahoma QBs in general and I think that Murray has a cockiness and arrogance to him that I find unlikeable, whereas Allen is confident, but seems like a great dude.  I also thought Murray and Kingsbury would be a major flop, but am coming around to admitting I was wrong and may have to begrudgingly admit they're pretty good.

 

4)  The Cardinals have a decent running game and had a good one vs. the Bills last week.  It made things much easier on Murray than they were on Allen.  Imagine how great Allen would be if he had ANY semblance of a running game....Right now, it's not even a credible threat and he's still doing pretty damn well.

[mannc]

24 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Yup and not just coverage- they can just shade everything to WRs because we have no tight end threats either. What makes Allen's season so remarkable is that it's literally the only threat we have and every team we play knows it. That's why when Brown goes down it falls apart- the entire Bills offense is Allen to wideouts and basically nothing else.

People who talk about all the amazing weapons Allen now has at his disposal are delusional.  Yes, the WR group is far better than it has been, but it still lacks a consistent downfield threat, especially when Brown is hobbled.  Combine this with the fact that we have no running game and no TE to speak of, and it makes Allen's performance even more remarkable.  The Bills need to continue to add offensive weapons at every opportunity, just like the Chiefs do for Mahomes.   

[BananaB]

He’s spot on about Allen. And if it wasn’t for the hailmary Allen would be at 4

[ProcessTruster]

17 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

#5! Simms loves his “ Boy Blue”. 
 

Starts at the 11:40 mark and he once again absolutely SLAYS the people still pushing the inaccuracy narrative. He also, without mentioning names, killed Aikman for his slanted take on Allen earlier in the year. Loved it. 

Hopefully someone will also trash Bradshaw at some point for his accuracy dissing of Josh during the KC game.   He categorically said that Josh will always be inaccurate and that was that.   

[billybrew1]

I think when you rate a QB, you are really rating the QB, the OL, The receiver's, the coaches, everybody involved.

 

Mahomes has the best of these things and therefore is the best....

 

The Bills O has these hiccups that I think are the result of a clunky run game, iffy TEs, and maybe a QB that can only learn so much at a time.... The plus side of Josh Allen is that his ceiling is probably the highest of them all and he appears to learn each and every week.

However, it doesn't look like Beane can keep supplying him with more talent because it looks like Buffalo's current talent is already bogging down by either a lack of talent or a lack of developing talent or both. That is, we needed Edmunds and Oliver to be defensive stars and they are not. We also neededCody Ford to be a dominant player....

[JESSEFEFFER]

3 minutes ago, billybrew1 said:

I think when you rate a QB, you are really rating the QB, the OL, The receiver's, the coaches, everybody involved.

 

Mahomes has the best of these things and therefore is the best....

 

The Bills O has these hiccups that I think are the result of a clunky run game, iffy TEs, and maybe a QB that can only learn so much at a time.... The plus side of Josh Allen is that his ceiling is probably the highest of them all and he appears to learn each and every week.

However, it doesn't look like Beane can keep supplying him with more talent because it looks like Buffalo's current talent is already bogging down by either a lack of talent or a lack of developing talent or both. That is, we needed Edmunds and Oliver to be defensive stars and they are not. We also neededCody Ford to be a dominant player....

 

Chris Simms does this by trying to put their play in context.  Deshaun Watson of the 2 win Texans is one example.  So are Burrow and Herbert.  Brees being left off the Top 10 is another.  He is most impressed by QBs who can produce off script and can challenge a defense at all levels.  So, there is an inherent bias against the old geezers who can still produce and another toward the young guns that offer mobility and playmaking ability. 

[DCofNC]

17 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Murray looks like a nice QB. Allen looks like one of the best in the league, there’s no comparison imo. He’s ahead of Murray in YPA, more TDs w fewer INTs, more attempts, better ANY/A, everything really. I don’t see the Murray hype

Murray is an accurate Mike Vick, until he gets hurt he’s gonna be really tough to deal with.  As a pure QB, Allen is better.  As a football player, they both offer a dynamic option, Murray can kill you in a few more ways, not to discount Josh as a runner, but he’s not in Murray’s class.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Allen has all the tools to be one of the all time greats. And he really looks like he is on his way. He's like the QB version of the 5 tool baseball player. In terms of  a total package as a player I don't think their is another QB in the NFL that has as many boxes checked as Allen. 

 

Brains- Check

Arm- Double Check

Size- Double Check

Mobility- Double Check

"It" Factor- Check

[Mat68]

There are a handful of guys who do everything for their teams.  Those are the top 6 qbs in the league.  Allen's running and defense has been suspect this year.  They are 7-3, lost to winning teams, and beat the most winning teams.  Allen is legit.  Buffalo is legit.

[Chicken Boo]

On 11/18/2020 at 11:02 PM, GoBills808 said:

The Kyler Murray thing I do not understand

 

I don't understand those who do not understand the Kyler Murray thing.

 

This is his 2nd year in the league.  If he does finish with 4,000 yards passing 1,000 yards rushing and 40+ TDs, it's all right there.

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I don't understand those who do not understand the Kyler Murray thing.

 

This is his 2nd year in the league.  If he does finish with 4,000 yards passing 1,000 yards rushing and 40+ TDs, it's all right there.

The rushing yards and TDs are great. He's not a terribly efficient passer. The fact that he's considered a top5 QB or MVP candidate right now is ridiculous.

[LABILLBACKER]

Someday in the very near future it will be 1. Mahomes and 2. Allen for a very long time. It could very well turn into a Brady/Manning type rivalry. QBs like Murray and Jackson will slowly fade as injuries and defensive schemes catch up to their pocket deficiencies. 

[Chicken Boo]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

The rushing yards and TDs are great. He's not a terribly efficient passer. The fact that he's considered a top5 QB or MVP candidate right now is ridiculous.

 

He's currently got a 98.7 QB rating and is completing 68.3% of his passes.  If that isn't efficient, then I don't know what is.

[GoBills808]

15 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

He's currently got a 98.7 QB rating and is completing 68.3% of his passes.  If that isn't efficient, then I don't know what is.

It’s 14th in the league as far as rating goes, which is fine but definitely not great.

[FLFan]

On 11/19/2020 at 1:51 AM, NickelCity said:

Kyler is pretty good. Don't think he's as good as Allen but to each their own. 

I would rate him as a better version of Lamar, but not in Josh’s class as a QB.  

15 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

After watching the Cardinals-Seahawks game, Allen should be above Murray. He would have been without the Hail Murray play, which is silly to have one play as the deciding factor....

That Hail Mary play had a hell of a lot more to do with the exceptional talent of Hopkins than it did with Murray.  There are many QBs who can scramble to buy time and throw it up for grabs in the end zone.  This was not some spectacular play by Murray.  It was a spectacular  play by the WR.   

[Putin]

2 hours ago, Mat68 said:

There are a handful of guys who do everything for their teams.  Those are the top 6 qbs in the league.  Allen's running and defense has been suspect this year.  They are 7-3, lost to winning teams, and beat the most winning teams.  Allen is legit.  Buffalo is legit.

This is legit ^^^

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Someday in the very near future it will be 1. Mahomes and 2. Allen for a very long time. It could very well turn into a Brady/Manning type rivalry. QBs like Murray and Jackson will slowly fade as injuries and defensive schemes catch up to their pocket deficiencies. 

Amen 🙏 to that !!

[johnnychemo]

On 11/19/2020 at 1:28 AM, jeremy2020 said:

 

without the fleshy appendage, my uncle is my aunt. 

not necessarily these days......🤪

[Punching Bag]

3 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Allen has all the tools to be one of the all time greats. And he really looks like he is on his way. He's like the QB version of the 5 tool baseball player. In terms of  a total package as a player I don't think their is another QB in the NFL that has as many boxes checked as Allen. 

 

Brains- Check

Arm- Double Check

Size- Double Check

Mobility- Double Check

"It" Factor- Check

 

Girl Friend/Wife- Check

Beard- Fail

[BigDingus]

On 11/18/2020 at 10:07 PM, Da webster guy said:

Which means in a re draft Browns take Allen and we probably have Rosen or Fitz or some Carolina retread at QB and my hair is fallin out....

 

Pssh, if they get a re-draft, we get a redraft too & can go back & take Mahomes. We can then trade up to take Tre White still instead of using a ton of picks to trade up twice the following year for both Allen & Edmunds. 

So the Browns can suck it, they can keep Mayfield lol. Though in fairness, I think Mayfield is actually a talented player, that organization is just dumb from top to bottom.

[Lenigmusx]

On 11/19/2020 at 9:15 AM, Gene1973 said:

I wonder if the Hail Murray had failed that Allen and Murray would have been swapped on that list...

What’s funniest to me is Murray’s Hail Mary Beat us. The reason I find it so ironic is because to me he is a modern day Doug Flutie. I think in the end you will find the he will go through erratic stretches like Flutie because defenses will figure out how to spy him and clog his throwing lanes. I think he will have a reasonable career with a super bowl loss to his resume. Anyway time will tell. 

[JerseyBills]

We played 4 QBs in the top 10 , 3 in the top 5! !!

We're 7-3 , fluke play away from 8-2! 

Bills are FOR REAL 

Our remaining schedule has 1 top 10 QB on it (on this list) , but he's a rookie and with now 2 months of tape on him, expecting McD to shut him down . 

 

Imagine Josh had a run game like Murray or Mahomes? He'd likely be at 70-75% and impossible to stop..

Edited November 21, 2020 by JerseyBills

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, BigDingus said:

 

Pssh, if they get a re-draft, we get a redraft too & can go back & take Mahomes. We can then trade up to take Tre White still instead of using a ton of picks to trade up twice the following year for both Allen & Edmunds. 

So the Browns can suck it, they can keep Mayfield lol. Though in fairness, I think Mayfield is actually a talented player, that organization is just dumb from top to bottom.

 

Number 1 draft pick holder gets redraft as well and Mahomes has to deal with coaching on another team too.

[Doc]

Josh is easily ahead of Murray, even with the Hail Murray.  More passing yards and TD's, fewer INTs, better completion percentage and higher YPA.  He also doesn't play in a dome and has the most dropped passes.  Beyond that, Murray has a better defense and running game. Where Murray is ahead of him is rushing yards and TDs, but Josh showed his first 2 years that he can rush for a lot of yards and TDs as well.