Week 7: Bills at Jets

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

 

 

Well - week to week is better than "out for the season with ACL injury" which is where I thought Cody Ford was going.

 

For the "D executed the game plan" bro's (you know who you are), McDermott specified containing QB scrambles, limiting the rush, and allowing 3rd down conversions as 3 areas where the defense didn't do enough.  He specifically mentioned the 3rd and 12 and the 3rd and 6 conversions in the 4th Q.

 

https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?v=906837219850752&ref=search

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[2003Contenders]

54 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

And again - if we recover that fumble, if Kelce misses that catch, etc - different ball game.

 

 

I believe the shoulder is affecting him also.  It appeared he was favoring the L arm from time to time - hooking the L hand into the handwarmer not in "I need to stay warm fashion" but "I need support", not lifting the L arm.  I think I saw a coach approach him on the bench after that series and Allen shook his head vehemently - I wondered at the time if he was asked if he needed to come out.

 

But I think the bigger issue with the fall-off in technique is 1) he's been made to feel more pressure the last 2 weeks 2) he's been using more brain-cycles to decode the zone defense and see who is open.

Well put.

 

I think it is also interesting too that in the first few games of the season, the defense's strategy was to load the box and force Josh to (as Gregg Williams said) "be a QB". After the success Josh has had doing exactly that, the last couple of games the opponent's strategy has been to take away the deep ball and only keep 6-7 in the box.

 

It will be interesting to see what the Jets plan to do the second time around. It sure would help if the Bills could finally get the traditional running game going.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

[Victory Formation]

Should be 5-2 next Sunday.. should crush the Jets.. New England OTOH is also another team we should beat... Bills should be 6-2 over the next few weeks unless Belichick completely out coaches McDermott which is possible..

[Process]

Brown and Milano need to sit vs the jets. If we can't beat the jets easily without them then we are not going anywhere anyways. Get them ready for the pats game. 

[appoo]

The lack of ability to run against 6-7 man fronts is probably the biggest issue of this offense. Allen has been, in general, extremely good this season, but he's still human and throwing against 7 man zones isn't easy. Force defenses into man coverages and get those safeties closer to the LOS. 

 

They couldn't do that against either the Titans and the Chiefs and it's really hampered the passing game

[Penfield45]

Jets game is nothing more of a confidence booster before NE. 

 

Get back in rhythm and beat the patriots to kickstart a run of wins. Lose against the patriots and things could get ugly in the 2nd half of the season 

[Dont Stop Billeiving]

Some random thoughts:

 

I think Milano and John Brown should be rested for the Jets game unless they are truly at 100%. I don't want to overlook the Jets, but we need those guys back to their full effectiveness for the upcoming schedule. 

 

I also hope Feliciano and Spain can get healthy and come back soon. I think these two were far more important to our run game than we realized. 

 

I'd like to see Zimmer and Bryan Cox Jr get more snaps next week. I liked what I saw from both and they made as many impact plays as anyone has on the defensive line this year.

 

Speaking of the d-line, as many others have mentioned, we have missed Star a ton and to a lesser extent Lawson on our run defense. Still don't think Lawson is quite worth his current contract in Miami as I don't think he affects the passer enough, but he was excellent setting the edge. Jordan Phillips was an awful run defender and would not have helped us. In Star's absence, Ed Oliver has been playing at 1-Tech on a significant percentage of snaps and that's not a good thing for him or our defense. I think he's actually been playing a lot better than the obvious stats show and his effort is always top notch. Our strongest defensive line IMO is Hughes-Oliver-Butler-Addison and we should rotate them less if possible.

 

Are Murphy and Harry back this game and if so, are they any more surprise scratches for this week? 

 

Would love to know who Beane is speaking with in terms of possibly bringing in some help before the deadline. A speed RB, a run-stuffing DT, and/or another CB would be great, but I know we have a lot less cap room to work with this year. 

[smuvtalker]

3 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I suspect a good part of this is due to the 10 - 1 record of our opponents the last 2 weeks and to the possibility that the NFL has learned we can't run the football and our TE's represent no viable threat downfield. Especially when Knox is out.

 

Last night BOTH defensive schemes and the weather largely took out the high octane passing attacks of both teams. So that means you better be able to lean on your running game and short passing attack. Last night when you look at the production for our RB/TE's versus the Chiefs a disturbing pattern develops:

 

Chiefs RB production =  35 carries for 204 yards & 1 TD

Bills RB production = 15 carries for 42yards

 

Chiefs TE & RB receiving production = 11 catches for 90 yards & 2 TD's

Bills TE & RB receiving production = 2 catches for 20 yards

 

Total production for the Chiefs = 46 touches for 294 yards& 3 TD's

Total production for the Bills = 17 touches for 62 yards & no TD's

 

You can blame this lack of production on Allen if you want and some will.  But I prefer to believe my lying eyes which tell me we don't have the horses at RB or TE to do what KC did last night.

 

 

Holy crap, excellent, excellent post.  

 

I was particularly bothered by the fact that we let a rookie RB playing behind an offensive line minus TWO starters, to run absolutely roughshod on us.  They made Edwards-Helaire look like the love child of Jim Brown and Barry Sanders.  At one point the announcers stated that the rookie was averaging 8 YPC.  That's not just unacceptable, that's unforgivable.  To me.

 

I still believe Singletary is a solid back, and capable of being the guy.  The one good thing to come out of Knox's injury is that Kroft has started to step up and be a more reliable target for Allen.  If  Knox can get back healthy, he and Kroft will make a nice 1-2 punch at TE.  Maybe then we can execute the way the Chiefs did last night...great post again.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Doesn’t sound like we’ll get Darnold. Flacco and Gore... hope our defense can contain the madness. 

[YoloinOhio]

8 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Doesn’t sound like we’ll get Darnold. Flacco and Gore... hope our defense can contain the madness. 

Would be scary in 2013

[Blank Stare]

2 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

unless Belichick completely out coaches McDermott which is possible..

Not only is this possible, but it’s highly likely. McD hasn’t outcoached Belichick one time since he’s been here. Doesn’t mean he can’t, but history tells us he likely won’t. 
 

You can bet he’ll have a plan to take away big plays from this receiving group (see Vrabel’s game plan). He’ll also probably take away any run game we can muster up, and make Josh beat him with long extended drives. Josh just has to take whatever he’s giving him instead of getting impatient. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I suspect a good part of this is due to the 10 - 1 record of our opponents the last 2 weeks and to the possibility that the NFL has learned we can't run the football and our TE's represent no viable threat downfield. Especially when Knox is out.

 

Last night BOTH defensive schemes and the weather largely took out the high octane passing attacks of both teams. So that means you better be able to lean on your running game and short passing attack. Last night when you look at the production for our RB/TE's versus the Chiefs a disturbing pattern develops:

 

Chiefs RB production =  35 carries for 204 yards & 1 TD

Bills RB production = 15 carries for 42yards

 

Chiefs TE & RB receiving production = 11 catches for 90 yards & 2 TD's

Bills TE & RB receiving production = 2 catches for 20 yards

 

Total production for the Chiefs = 46 touches for 294 yards& 3 TD's

Total production for the Bills = 17 touches for 62 yards & no TD's

 

You can blame this lack of production on Allen if you want and some will.  But I prefer to believe my lying eyes which tell me we don't have the horses at RB or TE to do what KC did last night.

 

Excellent, excellent post.

 

Essentially as targets, Allen had Beas and Diggs.  And if Diggs is running short routes he isn't occupying guys downfield.  I don't know what's up with  Brown but he seems to get taken out of the game by physical coverage that's right on top of him over the middle.   Yesterday's drop an example.

 

I'm like "Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego?" on our TE.  I know we use 'em to block.  Where in the world was Kroft last night?  Was he open, and Allen just didn't see or wouldn't throw to him?  "Baby Beluga in the deep blue sea (I mean gridiron), swim so wild and you swim so free***....WHOAOA!  WHALE SIGHTING!  Oh damn, now he's gone and I won't see him again, and it was such a beautiful sight"

 

I know many times last year I saw Singletary open for a checkdown and Allen just would not take it. 

 

But there also seem to be schematically a lack of these options on some plays.  We can't run the ball unless Allen does it, apparently.  We don't have a TE who can find those gaps in the zone and is always open 2' over his head.

 

As you say, we don't seem to have the horses.

 

***if you are a parent, surely you know this song

[K-9]

2 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

Should be 5-2 next Sunday.. should crush the Jets.. New England OTOH is also another team we should beat... Bills should be 6-2 over the next few weeks unless Belichick completely out coaches McDermott which is possible..

I’m as optimistic as can be, but if we continue to be a sieve against the run, Belichick will scheme another 200 plus yards against our defense like he’s done numerous times in the past. If we don’t fix it, I can’t see us beating the Pats***...again. 
 

And I won’t even mention the other teams we have on the schedule. 
 

 

[YoloinOhio]

4 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I’m as optimistic as can be, but if we continue to be a sieve against the run, Belichick will scheme another 200 plus yards against our defense like he’s done numerous times in the past. If we don’t fix it, I can’t see us beating the Pats***...again. 
 

And I won’t even mention the other teams we have on the schedule. 
 

 

Maybe he will do that again. Wouldn’t be surprised if they use that strategy.  Just don’t think that the pats passing game now is the threat that the chiefs is, far from it, which is the reason that the bills - by their admission - committed to the pass and gave up the run. Last week they committed to the run, Henry had 47. Would be nice if they could stop both. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[Stank_Nasty]

3 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I’m as optimistic as can be, but if we continue to be a sieve against the run, Belichick will scheme another 200 plus yards against our defense like he’s done numerous times in the past. If we don’t fix it, I can’t see us beating the Pats***...again. 
 

And I won’t even mention the other teams we have on the schedule. 
 

 

I was actually envisioning today how they can stack up 300 rush yds on us. 

[K-9]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

Maybe he will do that again. Wouldn’t be surprised if they use that strategy.  Just don’t think that the pats passing game now is the threat that the chiefs is, far from it, which is the reason that the bills - by their admission - committed to the pass and gave up the run. Last week they committed to the run, Henry had 47. Would be nice if they could stop both. 

Fair points, all. But regardless, our defense hasn’t played particularly well all year, pass or run, and I’ve adjusted my expectations accordingly. And until we actually win a game against Bellyache, I won’t be convinced we are anything more than two annual automatic wins for the Pats***. Pains me to say it. 

[Putin]

10 hours ago, RiotAct said:

is Frank Gore their feature back now?!?

Watch him rush for 189 yards against our defense 

[YoloinOhio]

18 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Fair points, all. But regardless, our defense hasn’t played particularly well all year, pass or run, and I’ve adjusted my expectations accordingly. And until we actually win a game against Bellyache, I won’t be convinced we are anything more than two annual automatic wins for the Pats***. Pains me to say it. 

Oh trust me I know 

[wvbillsfan]

Can’t wait to get this game and win under our belt. The sky is falling around here after two losses to really good teams. Plus it’s a Sunday game and we usually play better on Sunday. 

[Penfield45]

Just now, wvbillsfan said:

Can’t wait to get this game and win under our belt. The sky is falling around here after two losses to really good teams. Plus it’s a Sunday game and we usually play better on Sunday. 

 

well that depends on how we win

 

anything other than a dominant performance on both sides of the ball is unacceptable 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

well that depends on how we win

anything other than a dominant performance on both sides of the ball is unacceptable 

 

Oh, FML

 

What is this, Rythmic Gymnastics? 

 

Style points don't count, a W is a W

[smuvtalker]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

Am I the only one who has a problem with this statement from Frazier?? I get it, Edmunds is playing hurt. But this isn't the first time that Frazier has said that this year, and now it's starting to not only get redundant, but it just comes off like he's making excuses for him.  And he's "not overly concerned??  REALLY?? If the shoulder injury is causing his play to be so sub-par, why is he still out there??  Is a 50% Edmunds SOO much better than the next option?  And while I definitely acknowledge that our depth at LB is non-existent right now, putting an injured Edmunds out there is way more of a liability than an asset for us. Look at how he's playing...he looks LOST.  I have no doubt that that shoulder is causing hesitation and even a lack of confidence, but right now he's hurting us out there a whole heckuva lot more than helping us.  I pray Beane is doing his due diligence and desperately seeking a LB (or three) to bring in, because Edmunds is hurting us right now.   If it's that bad Frazier then please sit him and find us a stopgap until he's back to 100%(or close to it).

Edited October 21, 2020 by smuvtalker

[RiotAct]

He’ll work through the issues... hopefully not at too great a cost to our defense 😬😬😬

[HappyDays]

This game is the free square on a bingo card. My excitement level is equivalent to that of a preseason game. I just hope Allen finds himself again in this one.

[Motor26]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

Fair points, all. But regardless, our defense hasn’t played particularly well all year, pass or run, and I’ve adjusted my expectations accordingly. And until we actually win a game against Bellyache, I won’t be convinced we are anything more than two annual automatic wins for the Pats***. Pains me to say it. 

Yeah if they can manage to split with the Pats I’d be happy. They have owned the Bills far worse than they have the Jets and the Dolphins always seem to win games against them. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

34 minutes ago, smuvtalker said:

Am I the only one who has a problem with this statement from Frazier?? I get it, Edmunds is playing hurt. But this isn't the first time that Frazier has said that this year, and now it's starting to not only get redundant, but it just comes off like he's making excuses for him.  And he's "not overly concerned??  REALLY?? If the shoulder injury is causing his play to be so sub-par, why is he still out there??  Is a 50% Edmunds SOO much better than the next option?  And while I definitely acknowledge that our depth at LB is non-existent right now, putting an injured Edmunds out there is way more of a liability than an asset for us. Look at how he's playing...he looks LOST.  I have no doubt that that shoulder is causing hesitation and even a lack of confidence, but right now he's hurting us out there a whole heckuva lot more than helping us.  I pray Beane is doing his due diligence and desperately seeking a LB (or three) to bring in, because Edmunds is hurting us right now.   If it's that bad Frazier then please sit him and find us a stopgap until he's back to 100%(or close to it).

 

No, you're not the only one. 

 

It does come across as making excuses.

 

If we're playing a guy who is so injured it is noticeably affecting his play, we need to do something - make a trade, scour some practice squads if our backup options are so limited.  Change the scheme up.  Do something.

 

Thought experiment:  Josh Allen was clearly injured during the Raiders game.  He has been wearing a brace since.  How would we feel about it if that were offered by Daboll as a reason for his lesser performances against Tennessee and KC?  I don't think the reaction would be very positive around here.

 

Edmunds is out there to deliver a certain level of play.  If he can't due to the pain of the injury, he shouldn't be out there.

 

 

[Steptide]

If bills fans are losing their minds over our 2 losses, I can only imagine Patriots fans must be jumping off bridges with their team being 2-3 and having a losing record for the first time since 2002 

[stevewin]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

Uncoordinated is definitely a word that comes to mind when watching the Bills D-linemen last night

[Hapless Bills Fan]

19 minutes ago, Steptide said:

If bills fans are losing their minds over our 2 losses, I can only imagine Patriots fans must be jumping off bridges with their team being 2-3 and having a losing record for the first time since 2002 

 

Hahaha Patriots fans have been bridge-jumping every year since 2004.  Unbelieveable.  You have to know a few to believe it.

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, Penfield45 said:

 

well that depends on how we win

 

anything other than a dominant performance on both sides of the ball is unacceptable 

Actually it doesn’t, this isn’t college 

[Kenosha2Buffalo]

5-2 would sure feel nice! Even though you wouldn't be able to tell around here lol. Hope they can establish some sort of run game and our defense can manage to look above average against a bad offense in the jets. 

[Penfield45]

5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Actually it doesn’t, this isn’t college 

what?

 

if we have another poor performance on defense and offense against the worst team in the league it’s fair to assume we won’t be winning many more games this season 

 

we need to show improvement and have 4 quarters domination 

Edited October 21, 2020 by Penfield45

[Royale with Cheese]

6 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

what?

 

if we have another poor performance on defense and offense against the worst team in the league it’s fair to assume we won’t be winning many more games this season 

 

we need to show improvement and have 4 quarters domination 

 

Not it's not.  Do you not remember how we got taken to the wood shed in 2017 with the Chargers and Saints?  Guess what?  We fixed the issues and improved.  

Same thing last year when the Eagles ran 200+ yards against us.  The next week, AD had I believe 90 or so yards at half time.  

Edited October 21, 2020 by Royale with Cheese

[SCBills]

I’d love to see us hold Brown out of this game, as he’s clearly hobbled rn, and bring up Duke.  
 

I know we all roll our eyes at the Duke hype because he failed as a WR1 in the Texans playoff game, but he’s more than capable of being WR3/4.

 

If we’re all about going 4 WR spread, we kind of need more than 4 WR’s on the active gameday roster.. McKenzie/Roberts are not legitimate WRs.   

[White Linen]

28 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I’d love to see us hold Brown out of this game, as he’s clearly hobbled rn, and bring up Duke.  
 

I know we all roll our eyes at the Duke hype because he failed as a WR1 in the Texans playoff game, but he’s more than capable of being WR3/4.

 

If we’re all about going 4 WR spread, we kind of need more than 4 WR’s on the active gameday roster.. McKenzie/Roberts are not legitimate WRs.   

 

I agree that it may be a good idea to hold Brown out for the longer term gain of getting him healthy sooner.  If he's out Davis would be the WR3, so I'd be fine mixing Duke in for say 10-15 plays in a 4th WR role.

[Unforgiven]

14 hours ago, uticaclub said:

Last time we played Joe Flacco we lost by 50

ouch. I just realized I've wasted a lot of time on the Bills with little return.

Another post showed the last playoff win by the Bills in 95, I remember

that game but 25 years, when you say it like that it's very, very depressing.