Seahawks trade for Jamal Adams

[SCBills]

Jets lose an All-Pro, centerpiece impact player in Jamal Adams

 

Jets gain/avoid spending massive cap space on a Safety. 
 

Jets gain two (likely) late first round draft picks over the next two years.  
 

Given Adams wanted out, I think they did a great job.   It all depends what they do with those picks and cap space.  Can they parlay two late first round picks and $10-$12 mil in cap space (rough difference between what they’d pay Adams minus what they’ll pay the two late 1sts) into an impact equivalent/better than what Jamal Adams provided?  
 

Regardless of if they do, or not, they just made Year 3 of Sam Darnold more difficult. 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by SCBills

[FireChans]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

People still overrate draft picks. If you had 2 picks in the late 1st round and one of them turned into Jamal Adams you would be thrilled. The Seahawks traded a guess for a sure thing. That is what you do when you're a contender. It's the same reason the Bills traded for Diggs. The Jets now have no building blocks in their secondary and they have to hit on both picks as starters for the trade to be worth it. Great players > draft picks, every time.

That’s a far too simplistic way to describe it.

 

Your argument would support that the Dolphins should have considered trading pick  5 for Adams. After all, players over picks. However, we all know that’s nonsense, because the Dolphins were angling for a QB, and trading a first rounder on a depleted team devoid of talent for a solitary player who may or may not be retained is just not smart team building.

 

Also, a team that has agreed with your philosophy wholeheartedly is the Rams. They have believed players > picks and executed that plan for the last 3 years. I think they have been mostly right in their assessment, but I wonder your opinion on their future.

[HappyDays]

18 minutes ago, FireChans said:

That’s a far too simplistic way to describe it.

 

Your argument would support that the Dolphins should have considered trading pick  5 for Adams. After all, players over picks. However, we all know that’s nonsense, because the Dolphins were angling for a QB, and trading a first rounder on a depleted team devoid of talent for a solitary player who may or may not be retained is just not smart team building.

 

Also, a team that has agreed with your philosophy wholeheartedly is the Rams. They have believed players > picks and executed that plan for the last 3 years. I think they have been mostly right in their assessment, but I wonder your opinion on their future.

 

Sure that was too simplistic of me, it obviously isn't a universal truth. If you don't need the position upgraded or if you're looking for a QB or if you're putting yourself in cap jail because you make too many trades for players, then you are better off keeping the draft picks. I'm just talking about one off scenarios. In general if I have the choice between the great player or the draft pick(s), I'm taking the great player. The exception would be if I can't afford him or I don't need him. The Jets can afford Adams AND they need his position AND the draft picks they got back aren't the best value. It's easy for me to say they lost that trade. It's the same reason I say Diggs was a no brainer trade for the Bills with no downside.

[FireChans]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

Sure that was too simplistic of me, it obviously isn't a universal truth. If you don't need the position upgraded or if you're looking for a QB or if you're putting yourself in cap jail because you make too many trades for players, then you are better off keeping the draft picks. I'm just talking about one off scenarios. In general if I have the choice between the great player or the draft pick(s), I'm taking the great player. The exception would be if I can't afford him or I don't need him. The Jets can afford Adams AND they need his position AND the draft picks they got back aren't the best value. It's easy for me to say they lost that trade. It's the same reason I say Diggs was a no brainer trade for the Bills with no downside.

Okay, fair enough. I understand that position. 

 

I like the bolded because it does draw a nice parallel.

 

The issue is when you look at the core position needs, (QB, EDGE/pass rusher, CB, WR, OT of which most folks agree are the most important), how many of those positions do the Jets have filled vs the Bills prior to the Diggs/Adams trade?

 

Jets/Bills

QB - Darnold/Allen (presumably)

EDGE/pass rush - Jenkins-Williams/Hughes-Oliver

CB - ?????/White (maybe Poole or Pierre for the Jets?)

WR - ????/Brown (Crowder/Mims?

OT - Becton/Dawkins (but the Jets player hasn't played a snap yet)

 

So looking at those positions, just at a glance, the Bills are pretty much better in every category except arguably pass rush, right?  And if we agree that the Jets should be reasonably expected to improve their pass rush, CB, and WR positions, how can they NOT trade a player who is giving you every inclination he is walking, for 2 first round picks, which statistically gives you the best chance to fill those blue chip positions?

 

In contrast, the Bills are close to set. The Diggs trade is a no-brainer because of how few needs we have in our overall team makeup. If we had great WR's and no Dawkins, trading for Trent Williams would have been a no-brainer too.

 

To me, I would say if the Jets traded Adams for Diggs straight up, that would have been a good trade. Because we know a good WR matters more than a good SS. If they traded Adams for Aaron Donald, or for Khalil Mack, that would have been a good trade too. But those trades would never happen, because while Adams is a great player, he ain't worth an elite pass rusher.

 

None of this is even getting into the rest of the Jets roster which ain't great. But I understand the trade, the rationale behind it. And the Jets brass knows they have more gambling on hitting on those picks now.

[y2zipper]

Every first round pick is at least a cheap starter for 3-5 years and a shot an all-pro if a team drafts competently. If you're not hitting on first rounders you don't stay employed.

 

Football has talent abundance and safety isn't a critical position that's going to win or lose Seattle a Super Bowl. If Seattle traded multiple first-round picks in an effort to beef up their pass rush or their bad protection for Wilson, I would feel different about it.

 

The Jets did well here. If you can get multiple picks for any non QB/pass protector/pass rusher it's probably worthwhile to make a trade.

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

People still overrate draft picks. If you had 2 picks in the late 1st round and one of them turned into Jamal Adams you would be thrilled. The Seahawks traded a guess for a sure thing. That is what you do when you're a contender. It's the same reason the Bills traded for Diggs. The Jets now have no building blocks in their secondary and they have to hit on both picks as starters for the trade to be worth it. Great players > draft picks, every time.

With the rookie wage scale first round picks have gone up in value.  The Jets now have four opportunities in the next two years to draft solid starters in the first round and won't be cap strapped because they gave Adams a big deal.  That saved cap space will be important if Donald is their guy when they look to resigning him.

[FireChans]

5 minutes ago, y2zipper said:

Every first round pick is at least a cheap starter for 3-5 years and a shot an all-pro if a team drafts competently. If you're not hitting on first rounders you don't stay employed.

 

Football has talent abundance and safety isn't a critical position that's going to win or lose Seattle a Super Bowl. If Seattle traded multiple first-round picks in an effort to beef up their pass rush or their bad protection for Wilson, I would feel different about it.

 

The Jets did well here. If you can get multiple picks for any non QB/pass protector/pass rusher it's probably worthwhile to make a trade.

Interestingly enough, from 2011 to 2018, players picked 20-32, an average of 3 players make a ProBowl at least once in their career.

 

 

[Doc Brown]

51 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Sure that was too simplistic of me, it obviously isn't a universal truth. If you don't need the position upgraded or if you're looking for a QB or if you're putting yourself in cap jail because you make too many trades for players, then you are better off keeping the draft picks. I'm just talking about one off scenarios. In general if I have the choice between the great player or the draft pick(s), I'm taking the great player. The exception would be if I can't afford him or I don't need him. The Jets can afford Adams AND they need his position AND the draft picks they got back aren't the best value. It's easy for me to say they lost that trade. It's the same reason I say Diggs was a no brainer trade for the Bills with no downside.

I agree that I'd rather pay a proven asset than take a chance on a 1st rounder.  That's assuming you only lose one first rounder.  Not two.

 

The Bills only gave up one first round pick though.  Same thing with the Steelers and Minkah Fitzpatrick.  Frank Clark to the Chiefs, etc... 

[Rico]

Sweet trade for the Jets. I would've been tempted to take a little less and trade him to a dumpster fire like the Redskins.

[nucci]

Seahawks don't worry too much about the future. They have Wilson and try to win every year

[SirAndrew]

4 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Gase blows. But he’s a goner at seasons end if he even makes it that far. I’d bet a whole lot of money on that.... so the draft picks have nothing to do with Gase.

I’m not convinced the Jets ditch Gase if he goes 8-8 or something like that. People on this board have more faith in that franchise doing anything right than I do. 

4 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Isn't it good for the Jets by definition if it is a good deal for them?

 

I'm with you on Gase but non of that really matters in just grading the trade.

I can see how my words were confusing. I mean the Jets are instantly weaker without Adams. The draft picks are the good part, but acquiring and keeping talent is also important. Nothing about that franchise convinces me they’ll make wise choices with the draft picks, and actually keep the players if they do. The Jets have been a revolving door roster wise for years, and while the trade got them nice draft picks, at some point the revolving door needs to close. It can be just as good to keep and build around talent, as it is to acquire draft picks. That’s why I see this trade from both angles. It just seems like the Jets are in a constant state of upheaval. 

Edited July 26, 2020 by SirAndrew

[machine gun kelly]

3 hours ago, Locomark said:

This is a win for the Jets long term and further pushes the Pats down to the cellar in the next 2 years. This draft capital makes this look like it could be a very tough division in a few years. We better go get some divisions NOW while the getting is easier. 

The Jets May improve in time, but only if they fire Gase.  That tool is the best thing for us in the division.  The Pats will fall, and as I mentioned somewhere else, the Fish are the ones to watch.  They have a decent coach, if their QB holds up against injury, and all of the new players they brought in this year, they will be competitive in a couple of years.  I can see us going 5-1, or maybe even 6-0 this year in the division.  We’ll need that record given we face the Seahawks, 49ers, a much improved AZ, the Chiefs, Steelers with Big Ben, TN who made it to the championship beating the Pats, and the Ravens on the road in the playoffs, and I see the Broncos improving this year.  That is one helluva schedule so 5-1 is going to be needed to win the division.  I’m not saying we can’t beat some of these teams listed above, but we’re not going to beat all of them.  We are fortunate almost our entire starting squad on offense and defense is returning.  That’s our ace in the hole this year.

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, HappyDays said:

People still overrate draft picks. If you had 2 picks in the late 1st round and one of them turned into Jamal Adams you would be thrilled. The Seahawks traded a guess for a sure thing. That is what you do when you're a contender. It's the same reason the Bills traded for Diggs. The Jets now have no building blocks in their secondary and they have to hit on both picks as starters for the trade to be worth it. Great players > draft picks, every time.

 

 

No organization builds a team around a Safety.  No safety has been yielded 2 1st rounders in trade.  There have been QB's (Cutler cost 2 1st rounders, so did Jeff George and Jim Everett), RBs (Ricky Williams, Eric Dickerson, Herschel Walker) and WR (Keyshawn Johnson).  Other than KJ, the trade was either a dud or outright disaster for the team that gave up the picks.   Mack to Chicago hasn't paid dividends for there Bears.

 

For this trade to be worth it for the Seahawks, they need a SB appearance in the next 2 years.  Then they have to pay the man.  Carroll will be 70.  The window for Seattle is now, not 4 years from now.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Mr. WEO

[billsfan89]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

No organization builds a team around a Safety.  No safety has been yielded 2 1st rounders in trade.  There have been QB's (Cutler cost 2 1st rounders, so did Jeff George and Jim Everett), RBs (Ricky Williams, Eric Dickerson, Herschel Walker) and WR (Keyshawn Johnson).  Other than KJ, the trade was either a dud or outright disaster for the team that gave up the picks.

 

For this trade to be worth it for the Seahawks, they need a SB appearance in the next 2 years.  Then they have to pay the man.  Carroll will be 70.  The window for Seattle is now, not 4 years from now.

 

It's not just the draft picks, Adam's wants to be paid so not only are you giving up 2 firsts and swapping a third for a fourth but you are also giving up a chunk of your cap space. Now this would easily be justified for a QB and could be justified for a prime pass rusher. 

 

But a large cap and draft capital commitment for a safety? That's insane.

[Mr. WEO]

14 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

It's not just the draft picks, Adam's wants to be paid so not only are you giving up 2 firsts and swapping a third for a fourth but you are also giving up a chunk of your cap space. Now this would easily be justified for a QB and could be justified for a prime pass rusher. 

 

But a large cap and draft capital commitment for a safety? That's insane.

 

 

It has to have a fairly quick payoff.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Mr. WEO

[Coach Tuesday]

4 hours ago, HappyDays said:

People still overrate draft picks. If you had 2 picks in the late 1st round and one of them turned into Jamal Adams you would be thrilled. The Seahawks traded a guess for a sure thing. That is what you do when you're a contender. It's the same reason the Bills traded for Diggs. The Jets now have no building blocks in their secondary and they have to hit on both picks as starters for the trade to be worth it. Great players > draft picks, every time.

You’re ignoring the salary cap.  Low first round picks are highly cost-controlled assets.  Trading two of those for a non-premium player whom you’re now going to have to give a rich contract to makes little sense cap-wise.  It’s one thing to do it for a left tackle but a box safety?!?!

[billsfan89]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

It has to have a fairly quick payoff.

 

The Seahawks have to feel that they were only one player away from a SB. But I just don't see that player being Jamal Adams.

[PromoTheRobot]

Swami Mike Francesca.

 

New York Post: Mike Francesa whiffs on Jamal Adams take during final WFAN show.
https://nypost.com/2020/07/26/mike-francesa-whiffs-on-jamal-adams-take-during-final-wfan-show/

[Mr. K]

Im just hoping Josh can hit the deep ball against them this year often. Oh yeah and all 3 of those picks bust.

 

[njbuff]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Swami Mike Francesca.

 

New York Post: Mike Francesa whiffs on Jamal Adams take during final WFAN show.
https://nypost.com/2020/07/26/mike-francesa-whiffs-on-jamal-adams-take-during-final-wfan-show/

 

Well, the man has done shows five days a week for almost 30 years on WFAN. He is bound to say stupid stuff.

 

With that said, he is a blowhard.

[MJS]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

No organization builds a team around a Safety.  No safety has been yielded 2 1st rounders in trade.  There have been QB's (Cutler cost 2 1st rounders, so did Jeff George and Jim Everett), RBs (Ricky Williams, Eric Dickerson, Herschel Walker) and WR (Keyshawn Johnson).  Other than KJ, the trade was either a dud or outright disaster for the team that gave up the picks.   Mack to Chicago hasn't paid dividends for there Bears.

 

For this trade to be worth it for the Seahawks, they need a SB appearance in the next 2 years.  Then they have to pay the man.  Carroll will be 70.  The window for Seattle is now, not 4 years from now.

Agreed. These maga trades are boom or bust. Just crazy that someone is willing to trade that for a box safety. I can almost guarentee (but I won't) they will be regretting it a year or two from now.

 

We'll see how it goes. I just don't feel like Adams has done anything to help in the win/loss column for the Jets. Great player, but there's a reason safeties are one of the least paid positions. They don't have the opportunity to impact the game on every play like a QB, or Edge Rusher, or even a linebacker can.

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

It has to have a fairly quick payoff.

It needs to be this season. 

[njbuff]

20 minutes ago, MJS said:

Agreed. These maga trades are boom or bust. Just crazy that someone is willing to trade that for a box safety. I can almost guarentee (but I won't) they will be regretting it a year or two from now.

 

We'll see how it goes. I just don't feel like Adams has done anything to help in the win/loss column for the Jets. Great player, but there's a reason safeties are one of the least paid positions. They don't have the opportunity to impact the game on every play like a QB, or Edge Rusher, or even a linebacker can.

 

It works the other way too.

 

The Bills gave up a lot of draft capitol for Biscuit.

 

It sure worked out well for the Bills.

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

The Seahawks have to feel that they were only one player away from a SB. But I just don't see that player being Jamal Adams.

 

 

Me neither.

38 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

It needs to be this season. 

 

That's a hard ask, given the uncertainty this season.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Me neither.

 

That's a hard ask, given the uncertainty this season.

I mean this season whenever it may be held. 

[Mr. WEO]

45 minutes ago, MJS said:

Agreed. These maga trades are boom or bust. Just crazy that someone is willing to trade that for a box safety. I can almost guarentee (but I won't) they will be regretting it a year or two from now.

 

We'll see how it goes. I just don't feel like Adams has done anything to help in the win/loss column for the Jets. Great player, but there's a reason safeties are one of the least paid positions. They don't have the opportunity to impact the game on every play like a QB, or Edge Rusher, or even a linebacker can.

 

 

Exactly.

 

Plus I have heard commentary on the radio that this guy is the "heart and soul" of the team and "a leader", which he has proven ridiculous.  This guy has been playing social media passive/aggressive games since last season.

 

Jets get a rare break here.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Mr. WEO

[MJS]

29 minutes ago, njbuff said:

 

It works the other way too.

 

The Bills gave up a lot of draft capitol for Biscuit.

 

It sure worked out well for the Bills.

Thus I said boom or bust. But I don't believe a safety has the same opportunity for impact as a linebacker. 

[NoSaint]

54 minutes ago, MJS said:

Agreed. These maga trades are boom or bust. Just crazy that someone is willing to trade that for a box safety. I can almost guarentee (but I won't) they will be regretting it a year or two from now.

 

We'll see how it goes. I just don't feel like Adams has done anything to help in the win/loss column for the Jets. Great player, but there's a reason safeties are one of the least paid positions. They don't have the opportunity to impact the game on every play like a QB, or Edge Rusher, or even a linebacker can.

but being a guy that can be a hybrid that’s capable in coverage and in the box instantly makes him more valuable than a linebacker 

[SinceThe70s]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Swami Mike Francesca.

 

New York Post: Mike Francesa whiffs on Jamal Adams take during final WFAN show.
https://nypost.com/2020/07/26/mike-francesa-whiffs-on-jamal-adams-take-during-final-wfan-show/

 

it was a whiff for sure, but I agree with his take both before and after the trade

 

58 minutes ago, njbuff said:

 

Well, the man has done shows five days a week for almost 30 years on WFAN. He is bound to say stupid stuff.

 

With that said, he is a blowhard.

 

Well put. I liked him, he brought enough knowledge of the game and history along with a considered opinion to overlook his arrogance more often than not. 

 

 

[MJS]

7 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

but being a guy that can be a hybrid that’s capable in coverage and in the box instantly makes him more valuable than a linebacker 

Or half as valuable as a linebacker because he spends half his time in a position of lesser impact.

[NoSaint]

10 minutes ago, MJS said:

Or half as valuable as a linebacker because he spends half his time in a position of lesser impact.

and yet, for some reason, the professionals will likely agree with me. 
 

 

[MJS]

11 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

and yet, for some reason, the professionals will likely agree with me. 

The professionals are the ones who set the pay and safeties are one of the lowest paid positions.

[njbuff]

I wonder if the Jets turn around and use one of those first rounders to go after Ngakoue?

[NoSaint]

51 minutes ago, MJS said:

The professionals are the ones who set the pay and safeties are one of the lowest paid positions.

yes, and he’s not just a safety.
 

As indicated by the draft slot,  trade compensation and soon to be contract. 

[MJS]

18 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Jets aren't going 8-8. They'll win 5 to 6 games.

 

Especially since they just traded their best player. Their secondary looks pretty weak.

[Inigo Montoya]

On 7/25/2020 at 4:03 PM, Bleedingreennc said:

A 1st round pick for each of his career INT's!! Hate that he is gone, glad that we got a safety in return who had 5 picks last season.

 

Congrats to Gang Green.  It was a bad situation and seemed like another self inflicted wound by the Jets,  but it turned out the best it possibly could for them.  A decent safety replacement and two first round picks is a great haul for Adams and much more than I though they could get .  Douglas learned from Ozzie Newsome and looks like a legit GM.  I think this move also works against Gase's security.  The Jets roster takes a hit this season but could be stronger down the line.  Gase needs to win this year to keep his job.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 hours ago, njbuff said:

I wonder if the Jets turn around and use one of those first rounders to go after Ngakoue?

I mean that would kind of defeat the purpose of trading Adams. They didn't want to pay him. Adams is the better player. Covers, run defense, and pass rush. Rare player. 

 

I don't think you get better trading rare players like Kahlil Mack, Adams, and Jason Peters just to name a few rare elite players that have been traded in their prime.

 

I think the only way the Jets get better here is by drafting well and using the money saved on Adams to help their QB next free agency.

[Warcodered]

On 7/25/2020 at 2:59 PM, YoloinOhio said:

 

So is Bell angry at him for leaving or tricking him into coming to the Jets?

[Dont Stop Billeiving]

Not sad to see Adams leave the division (I held my breath for Josh Allen's life every time he or Henry Anderson got close). However, I think the Jets likely won this trade with the return they received. A decent safety to replace Adams and a massive draft haul for a player who wanted out. If this year's draft was any indication, I think Joe Douglas may actually know how to use those picks as well. 

 

On a different note, are we able to revisit and fully appreciate the much lower cost we paid in the Stephon Diggs trade? It was unfairly judged at the time given the earlier (and insane) Nuk Hopkins trade, but given what the Seahawks gave up to get Jamal Adams (also see Ramsey and Tunsil trades), I think we did well.

[machine gun kelly]

7 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

Congrats to Gang Green.  It was a bad situation and seemed like another self inflicted wound by the Jets,  but it turned out the best it possibly could for them.  A decent safety replacement and two first round picks is a great haul for Adams and much more than I though they could get .  Douglas learned from Ozzie Newsome and looks like a legit GM.  I think this move also works against Gase's security.  The Jets roster takes a hit this season but could be stronger down the line.  Gase needs to win this year to keep his job.

Inigo, I’m with you in that Gase in my opinion is dead man walking.  The Jets win 6 games and he gets fired.  Douglas then picks his own coach, and they probably convert some of 5ese picks into decent players.  Maybe not Jamal Adams kind of talent, but talented none the less.