NFL Players Staging Revolt

[Billl]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

Cool.   Sit out and don’t get paid.  
 

If they’re worried about their health (and they have every right to be), simply offer to forego pay and stay home with your family. 
 

....As is the case for every other person in this country.  
 

This isn’t going to end well for players perception if this is the route they choose while not offering to forego pay.  I doubt the public has an appetite to feel bad for Russell Wilson tweeting out about his safety when he makes millions upon millions per year as they go to work every day at grocery stores, restaurants, hospitals, small businesses that are barely getting by etc.. 

 

 

They have contracts.  Should teams be able to essentially terminate their contracts unilaterally by failing to provide a safe working environment?  The players are millionaires, but the owners are billionaires.  Should the public sympathize more with the old billionaires than the players who actually do the work and put their bodies on the line?

[SCBills]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Then maybe you should read the rest of my post. A bubble for 6 months is not realistic when you consider the number of people that would have to be kept in that bubble. It isn't just the players. It's everyone else involved with the game too.

Why is a bubble for that time period not realistic?  
 

You can have protocols for people outside the bubble coming in and people in the bubble leaving, just like the NBA does.   Each team would have their own bubble, as opposed to the NBA all under one.  
 

It also may not even be necessary for the entire duration of the NFL season, should we get therapeutic advancements.  
 

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by SCBills

[KD in CA]

27 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

What is the NFL’s plan? I can’t really find many specifics online. 

Maybe that’s because they’ve chosen not to publish it online.  How many other large businesses have published their plans publicly?

 

[Paulus]

1 hour ago, Beast said:

 

I'll take the bet that not one does.

Well, Richie Incognito is back in the league. I was was given a TO (temporarily banned) because of me defending myself against the haters on here. My post was also locked by the mod, as the suggestion was too off the rails. The NFL does have the money to prevent it, but people are people. We'll see, is all I have to say to you. Id have to see the schedules, locations, and nirmal information which would be available to us, before I wager, tbh.

[Mr. WEO]

15 minutes ago, Billl said:

They have contracts.  Should teams be able to essentially terminate their contracts unilaterally by failing to provide a safe working environment?  The players are millionaires, but the owners are billionaires.  Should the public sympathize more with the old billionaires than the players who actually do the work and put their bodies on the line?

 

No one is terminating any contracts...what are you talking about?

[Kirby Jackson]

58 minutes ago, bigK14094 said:

A job action to stop the preseason and camp should cancel the season imho.  I attended games back in the 80's after the strike, and, they came in with one week of practice.  Worst pro game I ever saw, sloppy execution, out of shape players.  But, the vets think they can do it.  Experience tells me otherwise.  If the preseason and camps are canceled, you will see the worst display of football ever seen in week one.

To be fair the training and offseason prep difference between 1980 and 2020 is the difference between a Kia and a Ferrari. The game may not be pretty coming off this break but it’s an entirely different world now. 

[Kirby Jackson]

42 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Yes, I understand.  I also understand that the players openly opposed a “bubble” strategy.   
 

Reality is, there’s zero way to ensure safety in a pandemic with no vaccine available.  
 

A “bubble” is the next best thing.  

 

If that is not an option for the players, everything else will look like a s**tshow, because that’s exactly what it is.  

 

If they play, without a bubble, some players will get with COVID.... there’s no way around it in the current environment. 
 

Every other league is getting back to playing - MLS, MLB, NBA etc.. 
 

It comes down to the same question many other Americans are having to deal with... Stay home, or accept inherent risk.  
 

I have zero issue with the players pushing for safety protocols,  but when they don’t seem willing to give up money and already opposed a “bubble”, it’s a bit difficult to take them 100% seriously. 
 

What about baseball? How are they able to do it? They have a lot more traveling going on albeit with a smaller group. There should be universal protocols in place. They should be standardized across the league. Your argument, to this point, is “if no bubble, nothing will work.” That may or may not be true but there should be alternative options in place. Throwing your hands up and saying “it is what it is” isn’t going to fly with the players. They’ve made that clear. 

Edited July 19, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[machine gun kelly]

50 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I'm not betting on somebody possibly dying during a pandemic (I'm just not that type of person)....unless I'm getting at least 3 to 1 odds minimum.

Doc, you have one warped sense of humor (I love BTW).  The people I most worry about who still will be working are the trainers, weight training coaches, assistants, other older employees, and yes, the O Lineman who some have very high BMI’s.  As much as I hate the Darth Vader of the NFL, Belicheck and Carroll who I don’t mind when he’s not talking with gum in his mouth are both in their late 60’s.  These are the guys who are definitely at risk.  How many assistants are older than 65?

[MJS]

Maybe this will be another scab season.

[aristocrat]

I don’t think we start on time unless there is a down tick in cases. 

[Dragoon]

Is it shocking some of them feel.....entitled?

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, Dragoon said:

Is it shocking some of them feel.....entitled?

In what way?

[machine gun kelly]

43 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Why is a bubble for that time period not realistic?  
 

You can have protocols for people outside the bubble coming in and people in the bubble leaving, just like the NBA does.   Each team would have their own bubble, as opposed to the NBA all under one.  
 

It also may not even be necessary for the entire duration of the NFL season, should we get therapeutic advancements.  
 

 

it’s not unrealistic.  Before the rookie accuses me of not making $, by some standards I’ve done very well the last 20 years in management, but if I can work, but need to be in a bubble to do it and at bare minimum I make $450,000 (I think that is the minimum for salaries) upwards of many millions, Id do it.  Soldiers get deployed, undersea welders make a handsome living in dangerous conditions, but they can work like an NFL player 7 months on a rig, before coming home to their families and not working for 5. It’s not unthinkable, it’s just these players, not all want $, but they want the luxury of not working.  It, meaning the world doesn’t work that way.  Work, get paid, don’t work, don’t get paid.  Pretty damn simple to me.

 

I absolutely want players and everyone else to make a decision.  Either one is fine with me, but you don’t get to have you’re cake and eat it too as my mom used to say.  Never really understood that old phrase, but you guys get it.

[JoPoy88]

52 minutes ago, Billl said:

They have contracts.  Should teams be able to essentially terminate their contracts unilaterally by failing to provide a safe working environment?  The players are millionaires, but the owners are billionaires.  Should the public sympathize more with the old billionaires than the players who actually do the work and put their bodies on the line?

You’d be surprised how many fans side with the ownership over literally any issue. I don’t get it either.

[BobbyC81]

3 hours ago, driddles said:

The players are ticked, so we can safely assume that the NFL didn't have multiple solid plans for how to proceed in different scenarios.  Was the NFL plan on par with 'It'll all be done by the time we start, let's not have a plan'?  This can't be possible in a billion dollar sport.  Can it?

 

Looks like delay in test results could do in all the major sports.  How can you have a plan of testing every couple days if it takes 5 to 6 days for results?

[Doc]

19 minutes ago, MJS said:

Maybe this will be another scab season.

 

Like I've been saying, think of this as at-worst a strike season.

 

7 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

it’s not unrealistic.  Before the rookie accuses me of not making $, by some standards I’ve done very well the last 20 years in management, but if I can work, but need to be in a bubble to do it and at bare minimum I make $450,000 (I think that is the minimum for salaries) upwards of many millions, Id do it.  Soldiers get deployed, undersea welders make a handsome living in dangerous conditions, but they can work like an NFL player 7 months on a rig, before coming home to their families and not working for 5. It’s not unthinkable, it’s just these players, not all want $, but they want the luxury of not working.  It, meaning the world doesn’t work that way.  Work, get paid, don’t work, don’t get paid.  Pretty damn simple to me.

 

I absolutely want players and everyone else to make a decision.  Either one is fine with me, but you don’t get to have you’re cake and eat it too as my mom used to say.  Never really understood that old phrase, but you guys get it.

 

This.  If you have to be away from family members, you can find a way to make it work just like others do.  My cousin-in-law has been deployed 3 times with my cousin having 2-4 small children to care for, on a minimal income (albeit with help from family and friends).  If you think it's too much of a bother +/- think you won't be able to abide by the rules, sit out the season but don't expect to be paid.  We want everyone to be as safe as possible.

 

3 minutes ago, ColeB said:

Looks like delay in test results could do in all the major sports.  How can you have a plan of testing every couple days if it takes 5 to 6 days for results?

 

Where does it say it will take 5-6 days to get results back?  Again B-D has a test with results in 15 minutes and the one we use has a 4-hour turnaround.

[machine gun kelly]

Well said Doc, and even Quest  can get a result in one day as reported for what they call Priority One patients, whether that is a healthcare worker at risk or an at risk patient.
 

Im not purporting for a bubble, but it is possible if wanted bad enough by all sides.

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Well said Doc, and even Quest  can get a result in one day as reported for what they call Priority One patients, whether that is a healthcare worker at risk or an at risk patient.
 

Im not purporting for a bubble, but it is possible if wanted bad enough by all sides.

 

Yup.  By now everyone knows what they should and shouldn't be doing based on the most current recommendations.

[dwight in philly]

4 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

Funny how almost every one of those Tweets uses the same words/phrases. It’s like they were given four or five catch phrases and told to send the message out. Must be a coincidence. 

i wanna see Football obviously.. but call their bluff. let them lose the money

Edited July 19, 2020 by dwight in philly

[par73]

A bubble is unrealistic for an entire FB season, imo. The only true answer is an effective vaccine-- and that is too far off.

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, Beast said:

 

I didn't say 100% but I will still take that bet. I'd lay a lot of cash on it.

What kind of odds we talking 

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Dragoon said:

Is it shocking some of them feel.....entitled?

to a safe workplace? No, not shocking. Many of us do.

[Augie]

4 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

to a safe workplace? No, not shocking. Many of us do.

 

Sadly, I don’t see any way possible that can be provided. Basketball in a bubble, not really, but maybe. Baseball is also very different. I’m watching golf now, and even that “distancing” sport has had issues. Football? I just don’t know what can be done. You can minimize unnecessary risk, but it is inherently risky. You can’t really change that, IMO. 

[SCBills]

11 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

to a safe workplace? No, not shocking. Many of us do.

I mean.. players vocally shot down the bubble, and some also shot down amended face masks.  What exactly are they looking for?   You can’t possibly think the NFL is just business as usual, there’s going to be testing and guidelines as we saw floated a few days ago, but if it’s truly about “safety”, how come I’ve already seen them shoot down two common sense safety protocols? ??‍♂️
 

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

Sadly, I don’t see any way possible that can be provided. Basketball in a bubble, not really, but maybe. Baseball is also very different. I’m watching golf now, and even that “distancing” sport has had issues. Football? I just don’t know what can be done. You can minimize unnecessary risk, but it is inherently risky. You can’t really change that, IMO. 

You can make it LESS risky though. That’s what they are asking for. There will always be risk. There will be guys that test positive. At the same time it’s reasonable to have a plan in place for how often they’ll be tested, what happens following a positive test, how to distance during meetings, how the facilities will be sanitized, etc... No one is asking for perfect, just better. Transparency and a plan is a pretty low bar to meet and it isn’t being met.

Edited July 19, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[njbuff]

So much for my theory that a virus dies in the heat. Most of the country is in an oppressive heat wave right now.

 

This MFing virus does NOT want to go away.

 

It is losing potency but is still very much alive.

Edited July 19, 2020 by njbuff

[The Wiz]

4 hours ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

I think they made the union a proposal last week that anyone wanting to opt out could by 8/1 and get a check for 150k

How will they ever survive off of so little???

 

Sarcasm off

[LeGOATski]

The NFL, as a whole (players/personnel), can't get out of its own way. They'll keep tripping over themselves until they finally call off the season.

 

Meanwhile, soccer all over the world has come back without issue...

9 minutes ago, njbuff said:

So much for my theory that a virus dies in the heat. Most of the country is in an oppressive heat wave right now.

 

This MFing virus does NOT want to go away.

 

It is losing potency but is still very much alive.

Of course it is. Like the flu, it's not going to die. This has been common knowledge for a while now. We need to adjust to it.

[snafu]

1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said:

You’d be surprised how many fans side with the ownership over literally any issue. I don’t get it either.

 

Look at it from the owners’ point of view. Fans are clamoring for a season, players want to play, owners want their profits.  No matter what safety measures the league puts in place, it is highly likely that people will get sick.  Then it’s back to fans calling them greedy and players calling them reckless. 

 

I’m not discounting the Owners’ desire to make their cash. They want a season for that reason. But they’re in a tough spot. Honestly, if there’s no good plan in place — a plan that includes the players, whatever that may be — then there shouldn’t be any games.

 

[Augie]

10 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

You can make it LESS risky though. That’s what they are asking for. There will always be risk. There will be guys that rest positive. At the same time it’s reasonable to have a plan in place for how often they’ll be tested, what happens following a positive test, how to distance during meetings, how the facilities will be sanitized, etc... No one is asking for perfect, just better. Transparency and a plan is a pretty low bar to meet and it isn’t being met.

 

I totally agree. My point is it’s probably the most difficult sport to pull this off. They can have or create the best possible plan with all kinds of contingencies (ready to change on the fly as needed), but I wonder what the tolerance will be once the cases start piling up among players, coaches and staffs. 

[LeGOATski]

22 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Sadly, I don’t see any way possible that can be provided. Basketball in a bubble, not really, but maybe. Baseball is also very different. I’m watching golf now, and even that “distancing” sport has had issues. Football? I just don’t know what can be done. You can minimize unnecessary risk, but it is inherently risky. You can’t really change that, IMO. 

Soccer has been fine. Full contact sport. MLS is doing the bubble in Florida.

[Punching Bag]

14 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I mean.. players vocally shot down the bubble, and some also shot down amended face masks.  What exactly are they looking for?   You can’t possibly think the NFL is just business as usual, there’s going to be testing and guidelines as we saw floated a few days ago, but if it’s truly about “safety”, how come I’ve already seen them shoot down two common sense safety protocols? ??‍♂️
 

 

Previously some players shot down new helmets and thigh pads.  Some will just keep objecting to everything; there are players who object to fines on cheap shots which hurt other players.  The NFLPA is better at this type of campaign but I cannot see purpose.

[Mr. WEO]

10 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

You can make it LESS risky though. That’s what they are asking for. There will always be risk. There will be guys that rest positive. At the same time it’s reasonable to have a plan in place for how often they’ll be tested, what happens following a positive test, how to distance during meetings, how the facilities will be sanitized, etc... No one is asking for perfect, just better. Transparency and a plan is a pretty low bar to meet and it isn’t being met.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/07/16/players-who-test-positive-for-covid-19-will-be-paid/

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-nfl-creating-covid-19-202407712.html

 

Distancing and sanitization protocols exist for any industry--no mysteries there.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2020/07/06/nfl-training-camps-coronavirus-covid-19-protocol/5385276002/

 

Details to be worked out remain--primarily because the testing apparatus in this country, because of the increase in testing, is still inadequate for the volume.

 

These players are being (I'm being kind here) disingenuous here.

[FLFan]

The players are absolutely right to be pushing back.  The NFL needs to prioritize the safety of the players and the team and league employees who will be required to stage the games.  They are not doing that right now.  The players should not be compelled to play until they feel comfortable with their safety, knowing that some risk is inevitable.  At this point, the NFL plan is entirely too open ended.  

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Soccer has been fine. Full contact sport. MLS is doing the bubble in Florida.

 

I hope I’m wrong, believe me! (And it wouldn’t be the first time, believe that too!) MLS has smaller rosters and coaching staffs, substantially less contact.....and the Bills look positioned for a very nice season....so something has to go wrong!   

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, FLFan said:

The players are absolutely right to be pushing back.  The NFL needs to prioritize the safety of the players and the team and league employees who will be required to stage the games.  They are not doing that right now.  The players should not be compelled to play until they feel comfortable with their safety, knowing that some risk is inevitable.  At this point, the NFL plan is entirely too open ended.  

 

 

link?

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by Mr. WEO

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

I hope I’m wrong, believe me! (And it wouldn’t be the first time, believe that too!) MLS has smaller rosters and coaching staffs, substantially less contact.....and the Bills look positioned for a very nice season....so something has to go wrong!   

Do they though?? For what we’re talking about, which is COVID spread.  
 

Watch a corner kick for any soccer game and the mass of humanity all clustered together pushing, tugging, sweating, breathing on each other.    Just because the hits aren’t as vicious doesn’t mean they aren’t spending half the game in close contact with zero shield between them and another player. 

[machine gun kelly]

2 minutes ago, FLFan said:

The players are absolutely right to be pushing back.  The NFL needs to prioritize the safety of the players and the team and league employees who will be required to stage the games.  They are not doing that right now.  The players should not be compelled to play until they feel comfortable with their safety, knowing that some risk is inevitable.  At this point, the NFL plan is entirely too open ended.  

No argument at all, as long as they don’t get paid like the rest of America.  I don’t disagree with you.  Don’t work, don’t get paid.  Work and get paid.  We’re not a socialist state.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

5 minutes ago, FLFan said:

The players are absolutely right to be pushing back.  The NFL needs to prioritize the safety of the players and the team and league employees who will be required to stage the games.  They are not doing that right now.  The players should not be compelled to play until they feel comfortable with their safety, knowing that some risk is inevitable.  At this point, the NFL plan is entirely too open ended.  

 

If the players were serious about their safety they would push for the bubble option.  There is no way, outside of the bubble option, that the season can happen without significant COVID risk. 

[Augie]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

Do they though?? For what we’re talking about, which is COVID spread.  
 

Watch a corner kick for any soccer game and the mass of humanity all clustered together pushing, tugging, sweating, breathing on each other.    Just because the hits aren’t as vicious doesn’t mean they aren’t spending half the game in close contact with zero shield between them and another player. 

 

Yes. How many corner kicks in a game. EVERY play in football is worse than a corner kick.