It's not just Allen under the microscope this year, so is Daboll

[Inigo Montoya]

Everyone knows that Josh Allen needs to take another big step forward this year.  It is his third year in the same offense,  he should enjoy better O-Line play, and he will have more weapons to get the ball to this year.  If he isn't able to take a step forward this year, then we are probably looking at his ceiling and I don't think we win a Super Bowl with him under center.

 

The same thing can be said about Brian Daboll.  The offense has been the anchor around the neck of this franchise the last couple seasons.  Not all of it is Daboll's fault, the offensive cupboard was pretty bare when Daboll arrived.  That's not the case anymore.  With the offensive continuity and the players that Beane has given him, the pressure is squarely on Daboll to produce a much better offense.  He is out of excuses this year,  just like Josh Allen.

 

I think Daboll's biggest problem is that he just seems to outsmart himself at times. This year there should be no excuses for Lee "False Start" Smith being on the field, or DiMarco running routes 20+ yards down field, or Singletary disappearing for huge stretches of games when he is running effectively, or Cole Beasley disappearing for entire halves of games. 

 

Daboll needs to find his groove this year and this offense needs to finally start scoring some points. Barring catastrophic injuries, he has no more excuses, the cupboard is full of talent.  Now Daboll needs to get that talent to execute.  I don't think Beane and McDermott bring him back for a year four if he doesn't get the job done this year.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Inigo Montoya

[John from Riverside]

Good post

 

debol needs to not outsmart himself and keep doing something that is working

[Prickly Pete]

Josh Allen is here to stay. 

 

If he doesn't develop into some kind of superstar, or whatever this "leap" I keep hearing that he needs to make is, they will instead change the emphasis of the offensive strategy to suit whatever they think he is capable of, rely more on the running game, and probably start emphasizing defense strategically and in the draft.

 

 

He isn't going anywhere for a long while. He is the guy.

 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by 32ABBA

[jaclynrea21]

not Josh just Daboll

[Fr. Jerk]

I'm sick of being Joshed around here, ya dig?

[Phil The Thrill]

1 hour ago, jaclynrea21 said:

not Josh just Daboll

I don’t buy this entirely.  If the offense has a bad year, yes,  Daboll could be in jeopardy.  But I don’t buy that Josh is completely safe.  He’ll be extended regardless but I do think you’ll see some serious QB competition brought in if he falters.  

[ProcessTruster]

The offensive roster is much better this year, plus Josh is fixing his flaws, plus the playbook is familiar, so production will increase.   All part of the process.   Will he be Johnny Unitas?  probably not.  Lets just go win the Division and go from there.  

[TroutDog]

It would be interesting if Daboll rolled with a simpler O a’la K gun. The weapons are now there. It seemed to work last year with the no-huddle and then, for an unknown reason, he stopped it. Weird. 
 

Not sure if I’m as high on the O line as you @Inigo Montoya  They’re certainly light years better than they were in ‘18 but still have some questions to answer. 
 

I have little doubt Josh will take another step as he has shown the ability during his rookie year (pre vs post injury) and then again in year two. Another step will happen and he is our QB. 

[Buffalo Boy]

     I’ve been thinking the same thing.

With the addition of a bruising RB, I specifically would like to see less QB designed runs by Josh. 
     Also, we have bonafide weapons which should hopefully require fewer Jet sweeps. 
     There was a thread about the lack of screen game. We have multiple players who would be great catching screens. This is such an important phase of the game we just don’t  use but need to. Our O line has another year under its belt. Both, in terms of pulling these off and helping negate pass rush. Couple that with Josh reading/ recognizing/ pulling the trigger faster. When you play screen and quick ball out against each other our O line has an easier day. Throw in the QB runs ( not designed) and deep threat ability and this O has the potential to take a huge step forward.

     Synergy!!!

[machine gun kelly]

BB,  good take as Allen has been fortunate his previous injuries were in the pocket, not on designed runs YET.  If Allen is the guy, I don’t want to see him turn out like Newton where he is not the same player after all of his injuries.  We have the right 1-2 punch with the RB’s.  Kind of reminds me of Marshawn Lynch and Fred Jackson.  We have basically the entire offensive starters returning, vs. last year with 9 new starters of 11, and I’m sure you guys remember the first time all 5 offensive line starters last year was the first week if the season.

 

Im tentatively excited to see an efficient passing game, where we can at least, very least be ranked in the top half of all teams, and lead the league in rushing.  Teams can win deep in the playoffs with that strategy.  I love it as a great running game allows to do more no huddle as our defense still gets enough rest, and their defense can’t substitute.  

[atlbillsfan1975]

This will probably be Daboll’s last year with the Bills.

IF the offense doesn’t improve Enough he will be fired, I hope this isn’t the case.

IF the offense improves by a noticeable amount Daboll will be hired for a HC job, we all should hope this is the case. 
I was very vocal in my displeasure with Daboll’s play calling and game management early in the year. I called for Daboll to be moved to the booth, I started a thread on it during the season. Daboll did move up to the booth, things improved some. Was this due to Josh improving his knowledge of the system or Brian seeing things better? 
 

I hope we are talking about replacing Daboll after a SB victory. It really can happen. This roster is stacked. If Josh and Brian finally click this year, this offense is built to score and then pound teams. 

[ALLEN1QB]

4 hours ago, 32ABBA said:

Josh Allen is here to stay. 

 

If he doesn't develop into some kind of superstar, or whatever this "leap" I keep hearing that he needs to make is, they will instead change the emphasis of the offensive strategy to suit whatever they think he is capable of, rely more on the running game, and probably start emphasizing defense strategically and in the draft.

 

 

He isn't going anywhere for a long while. He is the guy.

 

 

 

Josh you are horrible but we are going to give you 35 million per year because we like you kid now give me a hug.

[Greg S]

Lets be honest. It's not just Allen and Daboll who are under the microscope. The entire team is. First time in a long time the expectations are sky high in WNY. Winning the division is expected. Going on a playoff run and possibly winning the Super Bowl is a realistic goal this year. Pressure will be on the Bills big time this year.

[bigK14094]

8 minutes ago, Greg S said:

Lets be honest. It's not just Allen and Daboll who are under the microscope. The entire team is. First time in a long time the expectations are sky high in WNY. Winning the division is expected. Going on a playoff run and possibly winning the Super Bowl is a realistic goal this year. Pressure will be on the Bills big time this year.

My expectations are not super high.  They will be playing a much tougher  schedule this year, they had a cream puff schedule last year, with lots of losing teams.  It would be a huge leap to do  10-6 imho.  And, that might not win the div or make the playoffs.  So, a good year w/o playoffs could still be an improvement. And, sadly, I fear there might not be a season at all this year.........

[BeastMaster]

4 hours ago, 32ABBA said:

Josh Allen is here to stay. 

 

If he doesn't develop into some kind of superstar, or whatever this "leap" I keep hearing that he needs to make is, they will instead change the emphasis of the offensive strategy to suit whatever they think he is capable of, rely more on the running game, and probably start emphasizing defense strategically and in the draft.

 

 

He isn't going anywhere for a long while. He is the guy.

 

 

 

That would be the team giving up if they did that, and I'd be severely disappointed in the organization if that happened.

 

You don't extend Allen for big money if he falters...you bring in someone to compete with him in year four and go from there.

[Buffalo03]

I almost feel that you can't really make a fair judgement on Allen with Daboll as OC. The guys playcalling is extremely atrocious a lot of the time. He was the reason we ended up in a lot of 3rd and long situations trying to run 36 year old Frank Gore to the side instead of up the middle. He also gets to happy with QB draws for Allen. I feel like in order to have a fair assement of Allen this season that Daboll needs to just let Allen let loose

[Prickly Pete]

Just now, BeastMaster said:

That would be the team giving up if they did that, and I'd be severely disappointed in the organization if that happened.

 

You don't extend Allen for big money if he falters...you bring in someone to compete with him in year four and go from there.

 

I didn't say "falters", just if he doesn't get much better. I think he is already very good. I'm thrilled to have him, and think some people don't know a good thing when they have it.

[BeastMaster]

Just now, 32ABBA said:

 

I didn't say "falters", just if he doesn't get much better. I think he is already very good. I'm thrilled to have him, and think some people don't know a good thing when they have it.

He's not good enough right now.

 

If he were to stay the same QB as last season this season, then I'd be drafting a QB in the first round next year and I'd look at Winston if he has a good season in New Orleans. 

[Greg S]

6 minutes ago, bigK14094 said:

My expectations are not super high.  They will be playing a much tougher  schedule this year, they had a cream puff schedule last year, with lots of losing teams.  It would be a huge leap to do  10-6 imho.  And, that might not win the div or make the playoffs.  So, a good year w/o playoffs could still be an improvement. And, sadly, I fear there might not be a season at all this year.........

 

Its hard to say if the schedule will be tougher. On paper it does look tougher but when factor in injuries and teams that you think will be good end up having a down year. On the flip side teams that you think might be bad end playing well. The Bills IMHO have the best roster in the division. I also think their will be a season but a good chance without fans. Who knows at this point.

[Prickly Pete]

2 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

He's not good enough right now.

 

If he were to stay the same QB as last season this season, then I'd be drafting a QB in the first round next year and I'd look at Winston if he has a good season in New Orleans. 

 

You might, but I think think Bills are very happy, and are fine with building around him, even if he just basically just makes the natural progress most players would be expected to make as they become a veteran (commands respect, has good preparation, no off-field problems).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shaw66]

The first thing I wrote when the Bills traded for Diggs was that it was a message to Allen and Daboll.    The message said "w\We plan to win now.   It's up to you."

24 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

If he were to stay the same QB as last season this season, then I'd be drafting a QB in the first round next year and I'd look at Winston if he has a good season in New Orleans. 

That's the kind of statement that keeps a guy from the second round of interviews for any NFL GM job.  

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

The first thing I wrote when the Bills traded for Diggs was that it was a message to Allen and Daboll.    The message said "w\We plan to win now.   It's up to you."

I didn’t read that into it all. I took like a logical move for a team that’s been to the playoffs two of the last three years, has a developing QB, and needed more talent at WR. That’s it.

[BeastMaster]

16 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

The first thing I wrote when the Bills traded for Diggs was that it was a message to Allen and Daboll.    The message said "w\We plan to win now.   It's up to you."

That's the kind of statement that keeps a guy from the second round of interviews for any NFL GM job.  

Not improving the most important position when it's not good enough will eventually cost the GM and the coaching staff their jobs.

 

I like Allen and believe he will develop...just disagree on the statement that was made FTR.

Edited April 27, 2020 by BeastMaster

[Homey D. Clown]

It took Alex Smith more than 5 years to resemble a top tier QB, if Allen doesn't make some sort of "magical" leap this year, but continues to perform as well as he did past year, he's going nowhere.  

[billieve420]

Still have concerns about the o-line. Hopefully we see less hero Josh and better protection around him this year.

[Cripple Creek]

4 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

I don’t buy this entirely.  If the offense has a bad year, yes,  Daboll could be in jeopardy.  But I don’t buy that Josh is completely safe.  He’ll be extended regardless but I do think you’ll see some serious QB competition brought in if he falters.  

If unsure you may franchise, but why would a team tie up dollars and years if they're unsure of anything long term?

 

As for being under a microscope Daboll most definitely will be.  It's not just Allen who has all the weapons necessary.  

 

IMO screw this morph from week to week crap.  Figure out what you do well and do it and do it and do it...  Adjust? Yes. Transform? No. Nothing more disheartening to a team than to know what's coming and still not stop it.  Be that.

 

Don't lose your mind mid game.

 

 

[Bangarang]

No more excuses for either Daboll or Josh. It’s time to take a seat at the big boy table. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Bangarang

[Seasons1992]

5 hours ago, The Jerk said:

I'm sick of being Joshed around here, ya dig?

 

 

[Reality Check]

21 minutes ago, Homey D. Clown said:

It took Alex Smith more than 5 years to resemble a top tier QB, if Allen doesn't make some sort of "magical" leap this year, but continues to perform as well as he did past year, he's going nowhere.  

Great point. Daboll has to prove himself this year.

[Shaw66]

36 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I didn’t read that into it all. I took like a logical move for a team that’s been to the playoffs two of the last three years, has a developing QB, and needed more talent at WR. That’s it.

I think most of us in January and early February expected the Bills would take a receiver at 22, maybe even move up to get the guy they wanted.    Rookie receivers rarely are major impact players - it happens, but not that often.   

 

Drafting a first round receiver would have said "this team is still building, still growing.   Josh and his new number one will grow together into a great tandem."   That is, I believe that drafting a receiver in the first round would have said that 2021 was the year they expect to win.  Sure, if Justin Jefferson turned out to be the rookie OBJ, great, but there's not reason to expect that a guy taken at 22 is going over 1000 yards in 2020.  

 

Getting Diggs says something different.   Getting Diggs says "we're not waiting for our receiver to grow up.   We've got a grown up receiver right now."  

 

Not only was getting Diggs a challenge to Daboll and Allen; it was a vote of confidence.   It said "we believe you can do this."  

 

 

[BillsVet]

Buffalo scored 21 or more points just 6 times out of 17 games with five of those performances coming against teams that drafted in the top 10.   

 

I want to see the HC get away from the keep-it-close mentality that depends on the defense showing up every week.  To win 10 or more games against this year's opponents it's going to take some weeks where Buffalo puts up 30.  And that might mean throwing it 40 times.

 

Teams that want to be strong defensively and conservative on offense have a ceiling that is around a 5 or 6 seed. 

 

It's going to take the HC changing his perspective and using newly acquired (Diggs) or hopefully improved weapons (Allen, Singletary, Knox) in the passing game.

[chris heff]

1 hour ago, BeastMaster said:

He's not good enough right now.

 

If he were to stay the same QB as last season this season, then I'd be drafting a QB in the first round next year and I'd look at Winston if he has a good season in New Orleans. 

You do know that Winston is second string? Is he going to have a good season holding a clip board? Further more if Winston does get on the field and is the same QB he was last year he will be unemployed.

[ThurmasThoman]

2 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

This will probably be Daboll’s last year with the Bills.

IF the offense doesn’t improve Enough he will be fired, I hope this isn’t the case.

IF the offense improves by a noticeable amount Daboll will be hired for a HC job, we all should hope this is the case. 
I was very vocal in my displeasure with Daboll’s play calling and game management early in the year. I called for Daboll to be moved to the booth, I started a thread on it during the season. Daboll did move up to the booth, things improved some. Was this due to Josh improving his knowledge of the system or Brian seeing things better? 
 

I hope we are talking about replacing Daboll after a SB victory. It really can happen. This roster is stacked. If Josh and Brian finally click this year, this offense is built to score and then pound teams. 

 

Glad I read through this thread before posting, because this is exactly what I would have said.

I believe for Buffalo to win the Super Bowl, they're going to need to stay in attack mode on offense. One trend I've noticed in the NFL that I think our analytics department is a little slow to catch up to: winning teams don't go into "prevent offenses" anymore. Rather, they go for a quota of points, whether that's with 7 minutes left in the fourth, or 2 minutes into the first.

From a totally subjective perspective, it felt like too many times last year we would run safe plays to protect a lead. Against KC, SF, GB, Bal, or any other team that can score 14 on back to back possessions with ease, a 10 point lead can turn into a 4 point deficit in the blink of an eye, and the offense is suddenly struggling to regain their rhythm and tempo. The Wild Card game was the most glaring example of this to me. Trick plays are just as valuable in the late third quarter to increase a lead as they are in the opening drive to stake a lead.

Edit to include an example that came to mind after I hit post: our last playoff win, vs. Miami in 96. I remember endless fleaflickers to Beebe all day. They found a weakness in Miami's D, and relentless pounded it with gadget plays.

Edited April 27, 2020 by JohnnyGold

[BeastMaster]

10 minutes ago, chris heff said:

You do know that Winston is second string? Is he going to have a good season holding a clip board? Further more if Winston does get on the field and is the same QB he was last year he will be unemployed.

He had multiple offer this season but chose NO...doubtful he isn't afforded the same opportunities again no matter how next season plays out.

 

The main point was that I would bring in as much competition as possible if Allen doesn't show enough in this crucial third season. Substitute Winston with any vet QB that has shown ability and the potential to be a good starting QB.

[Thurman#1]

The offense and play-calling have been fine. They've looked great when Allen played well and not very good when he started making bad decisions.

 

Team fans typically would rather blame a coach than a QB, whether or not it makes sense. In this case, it doesn't make much sense. It's not a mistake that he got interviews last time around. Outside Buffalo fandom, Daboll has great respect around the league.

 

If Daboll starts making awful mistakes, he should certainly be blamed, but the worry is about Allen, and yeah, as House says above, there's some pressure on the OL as well.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

10 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

He had multiple offer this season but chose NO...doubtful he isn't afforded the same opportunities again no matter how next season plays out.

 

The main point was that I would bring in as much competition as possible if Allen doesn't show enough in this crucial third season. Substitute Winston with any vet QB that has shown ability and the potential to be a good starting QB.

 

 

That would not make sense. After the fourth year, well, maybe, depending how bad years three and four were. After three, though, you still make it clear it's his job to lose, while keeping Fromm here and learning as long as he appears to be coming along. Fromm should be his competition. You don't start a competition unless there's a significant back-slide.

 

Winston's actually a good case study.  Four years and a bit of a back-slide and who did they bring in? Fitz was there and they kept him. And you know Fitz isn't going to be your QB of the future. After his fifth year and a back-slide, pffft, Winston's gone. They didn't bring Brady in after Winston's third year, though. It was his fifth.

[BeastMaster]

5 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

That would not make sense. After the fourth year, well, maybe, depending how bad years three and four were. After three, though, you still make it clear it's his job to lose, while keeping Fromm here and learning as long as he appears to be coming along. Fromm should be his competition. You don't start a competition unless there's a significant back-slide.

 

Winston's actually a good case study.  Four years and a bit of a back-slide and who did they bring in? Fitz was there and they kept him. And you know Fitz isn't going to be your QB of the future. After his fifth year and a back-slide, pffft, Winston's gone. They didn't bring Brady in after Winston's third year, though. It was his fifth.

Fromm is just a cheaper version of Barkley...not even good enough to be a quality backup...maybe in a different stadium, but the wind/weather in NewEra will be an issue for him.

 

The organization is failing itself if they don't push Allen should he not meet expectations this upcoming season.

[DallasBillsFan1]

I like Sean McDermott and am confident he will return in 2021 ... but isn't he 0-6 versus Patriots?  What if (somehow) he loses twice to Pats this year?  Is he not on the hot seat himself?

[Mickey]

On 4/27/2020 at 2:08 AM, Inigo Montoya said:

Everyone knows that Josh Allen needs to take another big step forward this year.  It is his third year in the same offense,  he should enjoy better O-Line play, and he will have more weapons to get the ball to this year.  If he isn't able to take a step forward this year, then we are probably looking at his ceiling and I don't think we win a Super Bowl with him under center.

 

The same thing can be said about Brian Daboll.  The offense has been the anchor around the neck of this franchise the last couple seasons.  Not all of it is Daboll's fault, the offensive cupboard was pretty bare when Daboll arrived.  That's not the case anymore.  With the offensive continuity and the players that Beane has given him, the pressure is squarely on Daboll to produce a much better offense.  He is out of excuses this year,  just like Josh Allen.

 

I think Daboll's biggest problem is that he just seems to outsmart himself at times. This year there should be no excuses for Lee "False Start" Smith being on the field, or DiMarco running routes 20+ yards down field, or Singletary disappearing for huge stretches of games when he is running effectively, or Cole Beasley disappearing for entire halves of games. 

 

Daboll needs to find his groove this year and this offense needs to finally start scoring some points. Barring catastrophic injuries, he has no more excuses, the cupboard is full of talent.  Now Daboll needs to get that talent to execute.  I don't think Beane and McDermott bring him back for a year four if he doesn't get the job done this year.

 

 

 

And if he doesn't "take another big step forward" but instead performs mostly as he did last year, double digit wins and secures a play off birth with two weeks to spare, then what? We release him? Trade a guy who gets to the play offs 2 out of his first 3 years? 

 

Do we want him to do better? Of course, I'd say that if he if threw for 60 TD's. I understand that people want him to be Pat Mahomes. But what if he doesn't throw for an arbitrary 300 yards in a game or satisfy the deep yearnings of the parishioners of the church of the Holy Completion Percentage and complete 65% of his passes? What if he just continues to have great plays, head scratching plays, winning drives late in the 4th, double digit wins and play offs? 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Mickey

[Manther]

9 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Everyone knows that Josh Allen needs to take another big step forward this year.  It is his third year in the same offense,  he should enjoy better O-Line play, and he will have more weapons to get the ball to this year.  If he isn't able to take a step forward this year, then we are probably looking at his ceiling and I don't think we win a Super Bowl with him under center.

 

The same thing can be said about Brian Daboll.  The offense has been the anchor around the neck of this franchise the last couple seasons.  Not all of it is Daboll's fault, the offensive cupboard was pretty bare when Daboll arrived.  That's not the case anymore.  With the offensive continuity and the players that Beane has given him, the pressure is squarely on Daboll to produce a much better offense.  He is out of excuses this year,  just like Josh Allen.

 

I think Daboll's biggest problem is that he just seems to outsmart himself at times. This year there should be no excuses for Lee "False Start" Smith being on the field, or DiMarco running routes 20+ yards down field, or Singletary disappearing for huge stretches of games when he is running effectively, or Cole Beasley disappearing for entire halves of games. 

 

Daboll needs to find his groove this year and this offense needs to finally start scoring some points. Barring catastrophic injuries, he has no more excuses, the cupboard is full of talent.  Now Daboll needs to get that talent to execute.  I don't think Beane and McDermott bring him back for a year four if he doesn't get the job done this year.

 

 

I am 100% agreement!  Well written.  I have faith in Allen and question marks on Daboll.  I hope they both succeed!