GoBills808 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Aussie Joe said: Yes... considering most of the experts here and in the media have pointed to lack of weapons as holding him back.. What are your thoughts? I think he will improve because that's been his trajectory through two years, and an oline returning all starters plus Diggs should yield results. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 47 minutes ago, RyanC883 said: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001108258/article/nfl-qb-value-rankings-who-do-you-want-most-at-current-cost I’m not an Allen “fanboy”, but this is absurd. I’d take Allen over Carr, Minshew, Darnold, and Mayfield, and others. Where would you put him on this list? I’d have him around 8. I stopped reading at "While the rankings below attempting to answer that question are incredibly subjective ..." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: See I think Josh is at least half a dozen places too low on this list. I’m with you and I’m not a Josh lover (or hater) either. There’s a lot to like about Josh and he’s WAY ahead of guys like Carr or Minshew IMO. If you called Jacksonville tomorrow and offered them 1 for 1 they would send the paperwork back before you hung up the phone. Right now Josh is in that 10-15 range with a chance to go higher. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 Kyler Murray at 6 is hilarious. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgotBILLStopay Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 guys are coming around. good to see Allen has moved up from being around #35 in the eyes of these shallow analysts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I’m with you and I’m not a Josh lover (or hater) either. There’s a lot to like about Josh and he’s WAY ahead of guys like Carr or Minshew IMO. If you called Jacksonville tomorrow and offered them 1 for 1 they would send the paperwork back before you hung up the phone. Right now Josh is in that 10-15 range with a chance to go higher. I'd say 12-18 feels about the right range to me. I'd consider 12 a bit rich for my tastes but see the argument. I think anything below about 18 is probably a reflection of a guy who isn't really watching that closely. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 Right now Josh should be middle of the pack If he can hold onto the ball and figure out his deep ball mechanics.....he would be inside the top 5 to 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 3 hours ago, Allen2Moulds said: Does he watch football, and if he does, he has no idea what to look at, and doesn't understand the game. I think he is like some posters in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GETTOTHE50 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 I would not put Matt Ryan, Kyler Murray, or Lamar Jackson top 10. Still don’t get the Lamar Jackson love, especially since he lost two home playoff games with a stellar defense, FG kicker, and coaching staff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said: guys are coming around. good to see Allen has moved up from being around #35 in the eyes of these shallow analysts. You are calling Rosenthal and you can drown in shallow water. I would state he is barely wet and only way you could drown is you get your tongue caught in throat trying to get crap which came with drops of water. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JK Fan Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Bubba Gump said: I think Gregg Rosenthal was dropped on his head one too many times. May explain why he is a Pats lover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 53 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I think he will improve because that's been his trajectory through two years, and an oline returning all starters plus Diggs should yield results. It's not that simple. He had an incredibly easy schedule last year. It's very similar to Mitchell Tribisky's 2018. The biggest difference between the two is the Bills offense continues to add while the Bears stopped. Bears added a lot on offense entering Tribisky's 2nd season. Allen Robinson and Trey Burton in free agency. OL James Daniels and WR Anthony Miller in the 2nd round. Then in 2019 they were pretty stuck because of the Mack trade. Last year the Bills added 4 new starting OL, 2 new starting WRs. A good rookie RB. An athletic rookie TE. This year they've added a #1 WR and another possible starting OL to the mix. They will likely be adding more before the end of the month. So the Bills are doing more to help Allen. Allen has everything a young QB could want. Stable coaching, consistent OL, great defense, great WR's, athletic TES, and a good running game. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 18 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: It's not that simple. He had an incredibly easy schedule last year. It's very similar to Mitchell Tribisky's 2018. The biggest difference between the two is the Bills offense continues to add while the Bears stopped. Bears added a lot on offense entering Tribisky's 2nd season. Allen Robinson and Trey Burton in free agency. OL James Daniels and WR Anthony Miller in the 2nd round. Then in 2019 they were pretty stuck because of the Mack trade. Last year the Bills added 4 new starting OL, 2 new starting WRs. A good rookie RB. An athletic rookie TE. This year they've added a #1 WR and another possible starting OL to the mix. They will likely be adding more before the end of the month. So the Bills are doing more to help Allen. Allen has everything a young QB could want. Stable coaching, consistent OL, great defense, great WR's, athletic TES, and a good running game. Part of it is on Daboll. If Daboll isn't a good OC then Allen will not show significant improvement no matter what, because the offense as a whole won't be put in a position to succeed. I still question whether or not he is a good coach, but I haven't made up my mind on him yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, MJS said: Part of it is on Daboll. If Daboll isn't a good OC then Allen will not show significant improvement no matter what, because the offense as a whole won't be put in a position to succeed. I still question whether or not he is a good coach, but I haven't made up my mind on him yet. Watch the film. Daboll isn't an issue. Anyone that studies the Bills offense knows that. Daboll allows Allen freedom to be a QB. Maybe that's what people want, Daboll to limit Allen instead. Edited April 4, 2020 by Buffalo_Stampede 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFan20 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 You guys realize these types of articles are nothing more than click bait right? It’s just one guys opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFan20 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 2 hours ago, MJS said: Kyler Murray at 6 is hilarious. I’m not sold on Murray. He strikes me as a dink and dunker that puts up a lot of empty yards in garbage time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yav Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 Any QB ranking that doesn’t have Drew and Aaron as the top two is hogwash, not to mention Dak being in the top 10. wow Lamar had 1 good year and Mahomes has the best skill players in the NFL and in the biggest game played like crap, sorry but no way should either be in the top 10. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Yav said: Any QB ranking that doesn’t have Drew and Aaron as the top two is hogwash, not to mention Dak being in the top 10. wow Lamar had 1 good year and Mahomes has the best skill players in the NFL and in the biggest game played like crap, sorry but no way should either be in the top 10. Lolololol. Mahomes isn’t a top 10 qb? I seem to remember you being obnoxious about him since he came into the scene. this takes it to a whole other level though. also he, erased a 10 of deficit in the 4th quarter of the biggest game while producing 300+ total yds and 3 total td. I hope you are joking or just saying things for shock value because, if not, that is a startlingly stupid take on mahomes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvbillsfan Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 The guy basically says Allen is inaccurate (nothing about the multitude of dropped passes) and that his second year may be his best. So in a nutshell he’s inaccurate and isn’t going to get better. But if he does he reserves the right to admit he’s wrong. Heres to another year of improvement and another year of proving doubters wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 As usual ... when you like what's said, discuss it and approve it. When you hate what's said, attack the messenger. Which has no logical value whatsoever but feels good. IMO that has Allen too low by maybe 3 to 5 spots. Darnold's too high, I think, and Allen's better than Minshew. But whatever. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla03 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 fair ranking, but Baker should be below Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Watch the film. Daboll isn't an issue. Anyone that studies the Bills offense knows that. Daboll allows Allen freedom to be a QB. Maybe that's what people want, Daboll to limit Allen instead. Him calling only 8 handoffs in the second half and OT of the Texans game while leading or tied for all but 5 of the total 40 minutes isn't an issue? Putting the team squarely on the shoulders of a young QB, playing on the road, in his first playoff game is a good idea when it failed every other time they tried it? Not giving the ball to Singletary over and over again in the second half playing with a lead and him averaging 4.5 yards a run isn't an issue? Duh-boll isn't horrible, but there's a reason his offenses have ranked below average to near last each and every season he's been an OC. The best any of his offenses have ranked in yardage in his 6 years as an OC...22nd, the best in points...20th. One of the problems is even when a call is a simple one to make he doesn't, he constantly out thinks himself. Happens over and over again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBills1998 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 (edited) How the ***** is Carr on top of Allen LMAO, Carr is worse than his brother. Everyone knows Gruden wants to get rid of him. Infact Carr hasn’t taken his team to the playoffs and no I don’t count 2016, he got injured and was replaced by the back up Edited April 4, 2020 by BuffaloBills1998 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 1 hour ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: Him calling only 8 handoffs in the second half and OT of the Texans game while leading or tied for all but 5 of the total 40 minutes isn't an issue? Putting the team squarely on the shoulders of a young QB, playing on the road, in his first playoff game is a good idea when it failed every other time they tried it? Not giving the ball to Singletary over and over again in the second half playing with a lead and him averaging 4.5 yards a run isn't an issue? Duh-boll isn't horrible, but there's a reason his offenses have ranked below average to near last each and every season he's been an OC. The best any of his offenses have ranked in yardage in his 6 years as an OC...22nd, the best in points...20th. One of the problems is even when a call is a simple one to make he doesn't, he constantly out thinks himself. Happens over and over again. There are checks by the QB into runs as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritBill Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 Rosenthal has had a bee in his bonnet about the Bills for a while. If you go and look at his weekly game score predictions he had us going about 3-13 and even when he predicted a win he made sure there was some snide comment. I bet he’s about 5’ tall as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritBill Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 53 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said: How the ***** is Carr on top of Allen LMAO, Carr is worse than his brother. Everyone knows Gruden wants to get rid of him. Infact Carr hasn’t taken his team to the playoffs and no I don’t count 2016, he got injured and was replaced by the back up I’d love Allen to have a 2020 season like what Carr had in 2019. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBills1998 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 20 minutes ago, BritBill said: I’d love Allen to have a 2020 season like what Carr had in 2019. LOL Carr was mediocre in 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 10 hours ago, MJS said: Part of it is on Daboll. If Daboll isn't a good OC then Allen will not show significant improvement no matter what, because the offense as a whole won't be put in a position to succeed. I still question whether or not he is a good coach, but I haven't made up my mind on him yet. Bills really need a senior offensive assistant. Coach McD does not know offense although he does now how he would defend an offense. This was proven by some of his coaches he choose for offense. Bring a senior senior offensive assistant whose job is to be paid well without OC title but to be the 2nd offense coach looking at what is being proposed and find weaknesses. Coach McD was willing to step in when needed when Leslie Frazier was not making right calls and it worked out well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoName Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 17 hours ago, SirAndrew said: Josh Allen has a chance to prove himself big time this season, no need to be all hurt over a low ranking. I agree with you. This is the year we find out what Josh Allen is all about. He has the weapons, he has a true #1 receiver, he has a run game, he has a strong defense, a solid offensive line, he's had minimal changes to personnel, same offensive coaches and it's year 3 for him. This is it, Josh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 This is a very informative thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 7 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: Him calling only 8 handoffs in the second half and OT of the Texans game while leading or tied for all but 5 of the total 40 minutes isn't an issue? Putting the team squarely on the shoulders of a young QB, playing on the road, in his first playoff game is a good idea when it failed every other time they tried it? Not giving the ball to Singletary over and over again in the second half playing with a lead and him averaging 4.5 yards a run isn't an issue? Duh-boll isn't horrible, but there's a reason his offenses have ranked below average to near last each and every season he's been an OC. The best any of his offenses have ranked in yardage in his 6 years as an OC...22nd, the best in points...20th. One of the problems is even when a call is a simple one to make he doesn't, he constantly out thinks himself. Happens over and over again. Who’s the say that some of the failed passing plays were on the players and not him? I get your point but look at the execution on the perfectly called QB sweep at the end of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirAndrew Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 1 hour ago, NoName said: I agree with you. This is the year we find out what Josh Allen is all about. He has the weapons, he has a true #1 receiver, he has a run game, he has a strong defense, a solid offensive line, he's had minimal changes to personnel, same offensive coaches and it's year 3 for him. This is it, Josh. I really like Josh’s potential. He has already inspired more hope than any QB since Kelly imo. However, it’s all up to him this year. I’m not going to be here making excuses or listening to others excuses for him if he doesn’t progress this season. It’s a make or break year, and if he can’t get it done, he’s not the QB of the future. I believe that he will get it done, and he’ll move up everyone’s ranking if he does so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirAndrew Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 50 minutes ago, CommonCents said: Who’s the say that some of the failed passing plays were on the players and not him? I get your point but look at the execution on the perfectly called QB sweep at the end of the game. I think Daboll needs to develop a better grasp of what his players are capable of. He does a poor job of instinctually feeling the situation, and calling plays accordingly imo. That QB sweep was the perfect call, but the execution was poor. However, I just got done watching the season on game pass, and it seemed like called QB sweeps failed often last year due to poor execution. I’m not sure that’s the play I’m running, as opposed to keeping an unstoppable Singletary involved. I know it’s probably an unpopular opinion around here, but Allen’s best runs generally come on scrambles. I don’t want to take that part of his game away. Personally, I’d like to see fewer called runs with Josh this season. He’s a QB whose competitive nature causes him to take lots of big hits. A big guy like Allen isn’t going to be protected by the refs either. Scrambling is a great part of his game, but I’d like to see Daboll lessen his wear. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 (edited) 19 hours ago, Allen2Moulds said: Does he watch football, and if he does, he has no idea what to look at, and doesn't understand the game. Hey! Josh has his issues, but he’s not that bad! Tisk tisk...? Edited April 4, 2020 by JaCrispy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 19 hours ago, Just Joshin' said: Minshew's mom would not take him over Allen if those were the two choices. Minshew threw for more yards, more TDs, fewer INTs, completed a higher % of his passes, and had more yards per carry rushing despite only starting 12 games. He had a hell of a season and has 3 years left on a contract that pays him $700k a year. 19 hours ago, chris heff said: Wasn’t hurt at all. I found the premise to be absurd regardless of Allen’s ranking. You can rank a player on ability, you can rank contract value, but what is the point of merging those two things? Because that’s literally what GMs do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 I would probably put Allen around 15th or so personally in terms of value though there’s a few QBs that are worse value but better QBs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 20 hours ago, whatdrought said: Rosenthal is a Patriots fan who is very anti Bills. He’s also kinda an arrogant D-bag. You already said he's a Patriot's fan. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted April 4, 2020 Author Share Posted April 4, 2020 21 minutes ago, Billl said: Minshew threw for more yards, more TDs, fewer INTs, completed a higher % of his passes, and had more yards per carry rushing despite only starting 12 games. He had a hell of a season and has 3 years left on a contract that pays him $700k a year. Because that’s literally what GMs do. GMs rank every starting QB in the league on performance and their contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, chris heff said: GMs rank every starting QB in the league on performance and their contract? I mean, yeah, determining how valuable each player is when accounting for their contract is basically the key component of team building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted April 4, 2020 Author Share Posted April 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, DCOrange said: I mean, yeah, determining how valuable each player is when accounting for their contract is basically the key component of team building. I get that part, ranking your own players or players you’re looking to sign sure, but making a list of every starting QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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