Would You Give Up A Pick for Njoku?

[H2o]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28640475/32-nfl-players-use-fresh-start-offseason-qbs-injured-stars#CLE

 

TE David Njoku

He fell out of favor under the previous regime, as he was a regular healthy scratch down the stretch after returning from IR after a wrist injury. Had coach Freddie Kitchens and general manager John Dorsey been retained, Njoku almost certainly would have been out the door. Still, while Njoku would have a fresh start under a new coach and front office, it's clear he was also losing the trust of QB Baker Mayfield. That's why the 2017 first-round selection might be better off attempting to resuscitate his career elsewhere -- especially if the Browns can get something that can help them in return. -- Jake Trotter

 

He was a super talented TE prospect coming out of Miami who has battled a couple injuries, but has flashed on the field at times. I'd see if we could swing one of our 5th or 6th round picks for him. It may or may not work, depending on if Cleveland is wanting to part ways and what they would want for compensation. It's another way to add a potential weapon for Josh in a relatively cheap manner though. 

[thenorthremembers]

With Dorsey and Kitchens both gone I am not sure they will trade him.   That said, for a 6th, yes.

[thebandit27]

I just don’t see why a new, offensive-minded HC would want to give up on a young, athletic TE that’s on a cheap contract for a day 3 pick.

 

That doesn’t make sense.

[Thurman#1]

9 minutes ago, H2o said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28640475/32-nfl-players-use-fresh-start-offseason-qbs-injured-stars#CLE

 

TE David Njoku

He fell out of favor under the previous regime, as he was a regular healthy scratch down the stretch after returning from IR after a wrist injury. Had coach Freddie Kitchens and general manager John Dorsey been retained, Njoku almost certainly would have been out the door. Still, while Njoku would have a fresh start under a new coach and front office, it's clear he was also losing the trust of QB Baker Mayfield. That's why the 2017 first-round selection might be better off attempting to resuscitate his career elsewhere -- especially if the Browns can get something that can help them in return. -- Jake Trotter

 

He was a super talented TE prospect coming out of Miami who has battled a couple injuries, but has flashed on the field at times. I'd see if we could swing one of our 5th or 6th round picks for him. It may or may not work, depending on if Cleveland is wanting to part ways and what they would want for compensation. It's another way to add a potential weapon for Josh in a relatively cheap manner though. 

 

 

Would I take him for a 5th or 6th? Yeah.

 

Would I give him up for a 5th or 6th if I was Cleveland. A guy who had 639 yards in his 2nd year? Absolutely not.

[MAJBobby]

11 minutes ago, H2o said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28640475/32-nfl-players-use-fresh-start-offseason-qbs-injured-stars#CLE

 

TE David Njoku

He fell out of favor under the previous regime, as he was a regular healthy scratch down the stretch after returning from IR after a wrist injury. Had coach Freddie Kitchens and general manager John Dorsey been retained, Njoku almost certainly would have been out the door. Still, while Njoku would have a fresh start under a new coach and front office, it's clear he was also losing the trust of QB Baker Mayfield. That's why the 2017 first-round selection might be better off attempting to resuscitate his career elsewhere -- especially if the Browns can get something that can help them in return. -- Jake Trotter

 

He was a super talented TE prospect coming out of Miami who has battled a couple injuries, but has flashed on the field at times. I'd see if we could swing one of our 5th or 6th round picks for him. It may or may not work, depending on if Cleveland is wanting to part ways and what they would want for compensation. It's another way to add a potential weapon for Josh in a relatively cheap manner though. 

yea I would give a mid round pick for Njoku 

[Orlando Tim]

A competent club would not trade him for a low round pick- but since it is the Browns put in an offer of a 7th round pick and see what happens?

[Ethan in Cleveland]

He is worth at least a third round pick but I would not go higher than a fifth. The reason being unlike last year the Bills are fine at TE if they do nothing. A third round pick will be a significant contributor if not starter on defense. 

As others said, if I'm the new coach in Cleveland I'm not trading Njoku until I at least  see him in person in training camp and probably well into the season. But it made no sense for new HC McD to trade away Sammy and make the offense worse. Some guys rightly or wrongly just want their type of player and maybe Njoku is just not a good fit in  Cleveland.  

[gjv001]

I would be more inclined to trade for O J Howard. Howard does not appear to be thriving in Bruce Arians offense.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28640475/32-nfl-players-use-fresh-start-offseason-qbs-injured-stars#CLE

 

TE David Njoku

He fell out of favor under the previous regime, as he was a regular healthy scratch down the stretch after returning from IR after a wrist injury. Had coach Freddie Kitchens and general manager John Dorsey been retained, Njoku almost certainly would have been out the door. Still, while Njoku would have a fresh start under a new coach and front office, it's clear he was also losing the trust of QB Baker Mayfield. That's why the 2017 first-round selection might be better off attempting to resuscitate his career elsewhere -- especially if the Browns can get something that can help them in return. -- Jake Trotter

 

He was a super talented TE prospect coming out of Miami who has battled a couple injuries, but has flashed on the field at times. I'd see if we could swing one of our 5th or 6th round picks for him. It may or may not work, depending on if Cleveland is wanting to part ways and what they would want for compensation. It's another way to add a potential weapon for Josh in a relatively cheap manner though. 

 

Typically if a team is willing to part with a former 1st round selection for a 5th or 6th round pick in his 3rd year**, it would be a flag - especially with a new coach and OC.

Coaches typically have egos and think they can fix any problems players had under previous guys and turn them around.

 

I was not thrilled the last time we traded a low pick for a former 1st round receiver out of Cleveland.  He stayed here for <month and we paid $3.5M for that privilege or basically $116,000/day.

 

** edit: Njoku is on the 4th year of his contract, but because he was on IR most of last season, I *think* Cleveland gets an extra year...trying to find answer.  Anyone know? 

[NoSaint]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Typically if a team is willing to part with a former 1st round selection for a 5th or 6th round pick in his 3rd year, it would be a flag - especially with a new coach and OC.

Coaches typically have egos and think they can fix any problems players had under previous guys and turn them around.

 

I was not thrilled the last time we traded a low pick for a former 1st round receiver out of Cleveland.  He stayed here for <month and we paid $3.5M for that privilege or basically $116,000/day.

 

 

Or coaches want to clear out those guys to build their own roster. You paint with a pretty broad brush saying they keep projects for ego. Just as quickly they dump guys for ego.

[OldTimer1960]

30 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

He is worth at least a third round pick but I would not go higher than a fifth. The reason being unlike last year the Bills are fine at TE if they do nothing. A third round pick will be a significant contributor if not starter on defense. 

As others said, if I'm the new coach in Cleveland I'm not trading Njoku until I at least  see him in person in training camp and probably well into the season. But it made no sense for new HC McD to trade away Sammy and make the offense worse. Some guys rightly or wrongly just want their type of player and maybe Njoku is just not a good fit in  Cleveland.  

Watkins was traded before he hit FA because the team was not going to sign him long-term and also to stockpile draft picks.  Njoku isn’t on his last year of his contract (I don’t think) and Browns already have a lot of young talent on the roster.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

19 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Or coaches want to clear out those guys to build their own roster. You paint with a pretty broad brush saying they keep projects for ego. Just as quickly they dump guys for ego.

 

For sure new coaches come in and dump guys - we shipped Marcell Dareus, a 1st round pick, out the door for a conditional 6th that turned into a 5th.  But at that point he was a very highly paid 7th year vet, whose production and (reputedly) attitude weren't matching his pay.

 

No question coaches dump guys for ego as well.

 

It's not the moving of a 1st round pick, it's the combination of the years (going into 3rd year, effectively, because IR after 2 games), the fact that he contributed good production in 2018 (56 catches, 639 yds) and the suggested compensation (5th or 6th). 

 

What other 1st round players have been traded for a 5th or 6th in their 3rd year? (Edit: I'm not sure if this counts as his 4th or 3rd year due to the length of time he was on IR last year -trying to find answer

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Watkins was traded before he hit FA because the team was not going to sign him long-term and also to stockpile draft picks.  Njoku isn’t on his last year of his contract (I don’t think) and Browns already have a lot of young talent on the roster.

 

Watkins was traded for a player AND a 2nd round pick.

 

We're talking about a 5th or 6th here.

 

[NoSaint]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Watkins was traded for a player AND a 2nd round pick.

 

We're talking about a 5th or 6th here.

 

Reggie Ragland wasn’t picked all that much later 

 

I agree it’s unlikely for a 6 but not crazy to see discussion about this

Edited February 15, 2020 by NoSaint

[JohnBonhamRocks]

I'd pull the trigger for a 5th.

 

Maybe even a 5th and a 2022 7th.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Reggie Ragland wasn’t picked all that much later 

I agree it’s unlikely for a 6 but not crazy to see discussion about this

 

2nd round, but valid point. Ragland missed his rookie season thus had never had a chance to show anything in the NFL, he was a poor scheme fit for McD, and we got a 4th for him.

 

Now I dunno, maybe there's something that makes Njoku a poor scheme fit for Cleveland's new coaches.  I'm just leary of the Browns scouting chops and their player development.  I think he'd come in with at best, needing to learn how to prepare and practice as if he were a rookie.

 

In which case, why not just draft a rookie?

[H2o]

As far as the compensation goes I wouldn't give up anything higher than a day 3 pick. A 4th would be as high as I go, but I would package it with one of our 6th Round picks as well if need be. The ESPN writer's take is purely speculation of course and based off of how he thinks Njoku would benefit from a change of scenery. One mentioned OJ Howard as well, which is another guy I would give up the same pick compensation for. 

[OldTimer1960]

34 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Watkins was traded for a player AND a 2nd round pick.

 

We're talking about a 5th or 6th here.

 

Agreed - I was only commenting that one of the reasons that Watkins was traded was to get something for an asset that they would have lost the next year with nothing in return.

[fansince88]

 

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

He is worth at least a third round pick but I would not go higher than a fifth. The reason being unlike last year the Bills are fine at TE if they do nothing. A third round pick will be a significant contributor if not starter on defense. 

As others said, if I'm the new coach in Cleveland I'm not trading Njoku until I at least  see him in person in training camp and probably well into the season. But it made no sense for new HC McD to trade away Sammy and make the offense worse. Some guys rightly or wrongly just want their type of player and maybe Njoku is just not a good fit in  Cleveland.  

And just like that this turned into Bills screwed up because they traded Sammy thread. Did you see his interviews? He didnt want to be here. 20/20 this was a great trade. At the time to get picks and for the future this was a great trade. When we get this team rebuild complete withing the next 2 years this trade will be one of the trades that built this franchise. I just dont get bashing this trade.

https://13wham.com/buffalo-plus/bills-latest-news/sammy-watkins-left-scarred-from-buffalo

Edited February 15, 2020 by fansince88

[dave mcbride]

37 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

2nd round, but valid point. Ragland missed his rookie season thus had never had a chance to show anything in the NFL, he was a poor scheme fit for McD, and we got a 4th for him.

 

Now I dunno, maybe there's something that makes Njoku a poor scheme fit for Cleveland's new coaches.  I'm just leary of the Browns scouting chops and their player development.  I think he'd come in with at best, needing to learn how to prepare and practice as if he were a rookie.

 

In which case, why not just draft a rookie?

A 4th the next year, right? Picks with a delay of a year are devalued by a round in the league's draft pick trade calculus, so he was basically traded for a fifth.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, fansince88 said:

 

And just like that this turned into Bills screwed up because they traded Sammy thread. Did you see his interviews? He didnt want to be here. 20/20 this was a great trade. At the time to get picks and for the future this was a great trade. When we get this team rebuild complete withing the next 2 years this trade will be one of the trades that built this franchise. I just dont get bashing this trade.

https://13wham.com/buffalo-plus/bills-latest-news/sammy-watkins-left-scarred-from-buffalo

 

I'll add to this - sorry.  Sammy was interviewed by a Buffalo reporter (I think it was Tim Graham then with TBN) out in LA, and basically admitted that in B'lo, he needed an "attitude adjustment" - that he was all about mimimimimimi and getting his targets and getting his catches.  After he was traded, he got a "wake up call" and realized he better buckle down and start playing football as 1/11 of a team.  He also has commented on the difference getting married and having a child has made to his mental outlook.

 

Now obviously the best situation is the coach who can keep a talented player that needs an attitude adjustment, and get him to buy in.  But whether or not that works, depends at least as much on what else the coach has on his plate, as on the player.  The fact is that in the 3 years since being traded, Sammy has been a solid WR contributor, but far from the shining star he was drafted (and is being paid) to be.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Watkins was traded for a player AND a 2nd round pick.

 

We're talking about a 5th or 6th here.

 

My point was that new regimes move guys for reasons other than talent. Bills got great return for a guy they were not going to sign long term

Browns aren't trading him for a fifth unless there is more to the story 

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

2nd round, but valid point. Ragland missed his rookie season thus had never had a chance to show anything in the NFL, he was a poor scheme fit for McD, and we got a 4th for him.

 

Now I dunno, maybe there's something that makes Njoku a poor scheme fit for Cleveland's new coaches.  I'm just leary of the Browns scouting chops and their player development.  I think he'd come in with at best, needing to learn how to prepare and practice as if he were a rookie.

 

In which case, why not just draft a rookie?

I mean, 12 picks later and not like at pick 32 guys suddenly get drastically worse. Late first to high second often the difference is as much need as anything, as you are getting out of rare talents and into bigger pools of comparable guys.

 

ultimately, i think you nailed why the browns might consider a move. Old regime, maybe bad habits, or another connection to what was wrong and some rumors he’s not one of bakers guys in this thread. 
 

If they can get a pick and then take a guy for a fresh start that might appeal to them just like it seems to appeal to you. 
 

not stumping for Buffalo to be the team, just pointing out Cleveland could potentially answer phone calls at a lower than expected price point 

[Peter]

Yes.  I have season tickets to UM. He was tremendous in college.  I have no idea what is going on in Cleveland, but Njoku is definitely worth a mid round pick (4th or 5th?) based on what I have seen - at least for some team.  

[Rc2catch]

They would be insane to trade him away, that new coach will want every weapon available to save mayfields career there. 
If they were willing to ship him away for a mid to low pick then as stated earlier that’s a big red flag something is wrong. 

[stuvian]

Beane won't trade draft capital for vets until we are literally one player away

[BuffaloBillyG]

Stefanski has had Kyle Rudolph and they drafted Irv Smith who combined for 75 catches and 8 TDs last year. I would figure he's looking at a guy like Njoku to be a key factor in his offense, or at least give him a shot before moving on. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Stefanski has had Kyle Rudolph and they drafted Irv Smith who combined for 75 catches and 8 TDs last year. I would figure he's looking at a guy like Njoku to be a key factor in his offense, or at least give him a shot before moving on. 

 

This.  At the very least, I don't see why Stefanski wouldn't bring the guy into camp and have a good look at him.

 

15 minutes ago, stuvian said:

Beane won't trade draft capital for vets until we are literally one player away

 

From his past record, this is not true.  Especially, he likely realizes that this year, not everyone we could draft with a late-round pick has a real chance to make the team.  I personally think he'll be looking to utilize some of those picks to see if we can move up a bit in the draft. 

 

I don't think he'd be opposed to trading a 5th or 6th round pick (or both) for a promising player.  But if the Browns are willing to deal Njoku for that before camp, I say count the legs on that hoss most carefully.

[JP's Voice]

I wouldn't trade for him at all. He literally has two cinder blocks on the end of his wrists. 

[Chicken Boo]

No.  Tight ends don't seem to be a priority in this offense as far as targets go.  Until that changes, the position isn't high on the priority list.

[ScorpionZero]

Maybe go after Kyle Rudolph, I'f Olson doesn't pan out. His stats weren't great last but he can still ball, and has veteran leadership for Knox.

[White Linen]

6 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

He is worth at least a third round pick but I would not go higher than a fifth. The reason being unlike last year the Bills are fine at TE if they do nothing. A third round pick will be a significant contributor if not starter on defense. 

As others said, if I'm the new coach in Cleveland I'm not trading Njoku until I at least  see him in person in training camp and probably well into the season. But it made no sense for new HC McD to trade away Sammy and make the offense worse. Some guys rightly or wrongly just want their type of player and maybe Njoku is just not a good fit in  Cleveland.  

 

I disagree with everything you've said here except i wouldn't trade Njoku if I were Cleveland. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

We just signed four new TE's last year, but lets bring in another.  I really can't think of a positional group on the roster that someone new brought in less than TE.  The one thing I know for certain is that no one knows in 3 to 4 years who'll be better Knox or Njoku, but lets bring in someone different this way Knox will spend less time on the field.

 

One of the articles I read the other day about signing Olsen and his point which I tend to agree with is bringing in a guy like Olsen is OK as he's only a short term solution to help Knox improve, but should not make any moves that would reduce Knox's playing time. Went on to say how there's very few other TE's in the league with the potential talent set he has, admitted that the drops are a concern,  but  do everything you can to help him develop.  And oh BTW as a 1st round pick, likely is being paid much more too.

 

It just is amazing here how no one ever has any patience, if the guy's not all pro after 1 season, may as well cut him is what seems like the theme here all too often.  That works in Madden, but not in the NFL.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

I disagree with everything you've said here except i wouldn't trade Njoku if I were Cleveland. 

Curious.

You think Njoku is worth less than a 3rd?

You think TE group is not fine and if so what do you want to do about it? I assume you would want to cut Kroft and sign another FA.

You don't think a 3rd round pick will be a significant contributor this year? My hunch is the first three picks in the draft will all play significant snaps if not starters - at DE, OLB, and either DT or WR depending on what they do with Phillips and in free agency.

[The Jokeman]

9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Would I take him for a 5th or 6th? Yeah.

 

Would I give him up for a 5th or 6th if I was Cleveland. A guy who had 639 yards in his 2nd year? Absolutely not.

Give back the 6th we got for Wyatt Teller.

[BillsMafia13]

Factor in anybody’s career that passes through Cleveland tanks, maybe mcbeane would trade and extend him next year. He is a big wr that might be able to block so 

[John from Riverside]

For a late round pick absolutely

[GoBills808]

Meh. He plays small imo, frame kind of slight too...not what the staff has been gathering in the TE room as of late

[NewEra]

On 2/15/2020 at 2:21 PM, Ethan in Portland said:

Curious.

You think Njoku is worth less than a 3rd?

You think TE group is not fine and if so what do you want to do about it? I assume you would want to cut Kroft and sign another FA.

You don't think a 3rd round pick will be a significant contributor this year? My hunch is the first three picks in the draft will all play significant snaps if not starters - at DE, OLB, and either DT or WR depending on what they do with Phillips and in free agency.

No chance I’d give up a 3rd for njoku.  Zero. Might give up a 5th.  I’d give up a 6th for sure

[thebandit27]

Browns just cut Demetrius Harris, so unless they plan to go into FA without a starting TE, I’d say the idea of trading Njoku just became less likely a scenario