Browns interview Brian Daboll for HC; have interest in pairing with Bills Asst. GM Joe Schoen

[colin]

assuming we can land shurmer or someone like that, i'm all for dabol leaving to another team.

 

him trotting gore out and running him into a wall so often, duke never playing although he is our only big body wr, him taking so long to make motor or offensive focus (and still kinda getting away from him as well), our inability to beat aggressive blitzes with man coverage, NO ABILITY TO RUN A SCREEN, and most importantly the penalties and lack of offensive identity just shows that our O isn't cohesive, we don't have bread and butter go to plays, and our ability to score in the redzone and convert third and long with the best in the NFL is simply a function of allen using his legs and extending plays, not his drawn up O.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

A large number of the fans here would rejoice and then prepare to skewer the next sacrificial lamb who takes the Bills' OC job. 

 

Daboll would be a loss not necessarily because he is the greatest play caller (he isn't) but because this is the critical offseason in Josh's development. It is the worst possible time for a new scheme and him to have to build a new relationship. Oh and Dabes just isn't as bad a Coordinator as the mob would have you believe. 

Oh and also I haven't read all 8 pages but I hope @Kirby Jackson is here to dish out some humble pie to the Daboll blamers who were arguing until blue in the face 3 weeks ago that this guy couldn't possibly get HC looks. 

 

Well, I didn't think he would.  I don't think it would be a move in either party's best long-term interest.  I think Daboll is still progressing as an NFL OC.  I think he would be well-served to stay here and master the role/let it get comfortable enough that he can see beyond it.  But this IS the Browns.

 

12 hours ago, the skycap said:

May take Gaine with him to be GM?

 

Gaine is not Daboll's pair of shoes to pack or leave

[MAJBobby]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Teams usually do not allow their coaches to interview while they are involved in the playoffs.

BAD move if the Bills actually allow this.

 

Is it actually said that they will allow him to interview during preparation after we beat the Texans?  Or is the "next week" stuff just inferred by writers who think we'll lose?

they have to. Interview will be next week and the Bills get to dictate the day. 
 

this was all changed a couple years ago. 
 

so if I am Bills. Yes you can Interview Daboll. It will be next Friday at 8pm in Buffalo. Enjoy

Edited December 31, 2019 by MAJBobby

[BuffaloHokie13]

Why are we assuming that Daboll is to credit for Josh's progression. Could it not be just as likely that Dorsey's work with him this year was the difference? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

 

Oh, great, so they are supposedly distracting from our playoff run in an "intel gathering" move?

?

 

1 minute ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Why are we assuming that Daboll is to credit for Josh's progression. Could it not be just as likely that Dorsey's work with him this year was the difference? 

 

I had the exact same question

[foreboding]

13 hours ago, QB Bills said:

Keep him. Let McClappy interview there instead. 

Can someones account be deleted for such a stupid egregious post?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

they have to. Interview will be next week and the Bills get to dictate the day. 
 

this was all changed a couple years ago. 
 

so if I am Bills. Yes you can Interview Daboll. It will be next Friday at 8pm in Buffalo. Enjoy

 

Do we get to dictate the place as well?

 

5 minutes ago, foreboding said:

Can someones account be deleted for such a stupid egregious post?

 

No.  Stupidity is not against the TOS, only certain manners of displaying it

[foreboding]

12 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Pat Shurmer 

Chad O’Shea

Joe Brady (LSU) 

Kellen Moore

 

to name a few 

Maybe Jason Garrett. That would be awesome.

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, foreboding said:

Maybe Jason Garrett. That would be awesome.

could add him as well. There are OCs that will be out there that meet my Criteria of Success with developing young QBs. 

[SectionC3]

18 minutes ago, colin said:

assuming we can land shurmer or someone like that, i'm all for dabol leaving to another team.

 

him trotting gore out and running him into a wall so often, duke never playing although he is our only big body wr, him taking so long to make motor or offensive focus (and still kinda getting away from him as well), our inability to beat aggressive blitzes with man coverage, NO ABILITY TO RUN A SCREEN, and most importantly the penalties and lack of offensive identity just shows that our O isn't cohesive, we don't have bread and butter go to plays, and our ability to score in the redzone and convert third and long with the best in the NFL is simply a function of allen using his legs and extending plays, not his drawn up O.

 

 

sigh.  personnel is not a great fit for the screen game. guards are slow and receivers are small.  But we should run it anyways so people can complain about how we run too many ineffective screens. 
 

Want to beat aggressive blitzes?  Have John brown win a slant against Baltimore.  Yes, Allen generally has to be better in that respect, but it’s not all on him or daboll.  Sometimes it’s personnel. 
 

 

[colin]

1 minute ago, SectionC3 said:

sigh.  personnel is not a great fit for the screen game. guards are slow and receivers are small.  But we should run it anyways so people can complain about how we run too many ineffective screens. 
 

Want to beat aggressive blitzes?  Have John brown win a slant against Baltimore.  Yes, Allen generally has to be better in that respect, but it’s not all on him or daboll.  Sometimes it’s personnel. 
 

 

 

ok, so you think we just don't have the horses to run a screen play, whatever.  i disagree, i think we simply don't prepare and practice for it because we have too many plays and formations taking up all of our time.

 

what about our lack of 3rd and makable, or lack of offensive identity, or constantly running gore into a pile?  sometimes it's not personal, sometimes it's coaching.

[BuffaloHokie13]

18 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Do we get to dictate the place as well?

I believe if we win it has to be local to Buffalo. 

[DCOrange]

As far as potential OC replacements go, I would be far more interested in Kellen Moore than Jason Garrett. I’d prefer to just keep Daboll over anyone else though. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

I don't think Daboll would take the job - I sure as hell wouldn't. I would wait for a better opp

 

If you aren't going to seriously consider the job, why distract yourself from your team during playoffs?

1 minute ago, DCOrange said:

As far as potential OC replacements go, I would be far more interested in Kellen Moore than Jason Garrett. I’d prefer to just keep Daboll over anyone else though. 

 

Help me understand the Kellen Moore love because what I saw from him in Dallas this season made no freakin' sense

[DCOrange]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If you aren't going to seriously consider the job, why distract yourself from your team during playoffs?

 

Help me understand the Kellen Moore love because what I saw from him in Dallas this season made no freakin' sense

My gut feel is that it’s still mainly Garrett standing in Moore’s way from being able to call the game he actually wants. I think the first few weeks of the wide open offense was Moore, but if we know that the play calling of the last few years overall is actually what both Garrett and Moore want, I’d stay away from both.

[Big Turk]

Apparently Bills cannot prevent him from interviewing but they can choose what day and time he is made available for the interview and it has to be in Buffalo.

[Artem Lipatov]

12 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

Is there more a Browns move? Let's get the OC of a team that we beat because their offense was so bad.

 

 

It was a Billsy move when we invited Wrex after beating his Jets twice and having top5 Schwarz defence.

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Help me understand the Kellen Moore love because what I saw from him in Dallas this season made no freakin' sense

 

Big numbers. But I agree. Situationally I thought Dallas were awful. There was the end of that Vikings game where Prescott was hot got them down the field and then they suddenly went to Zeke in the redzone 3 times. Then the Patriots game in awful weather where they hardly ran Zeke 2nd half. Saints game early on they stuck with Zeke even though the Saints were all out to try and stop him. He averaged less than 2 a carry I think and they ran him like 20 times.

 

Numbers, good. Situationally, poor.

Edited December 31, 2019 by GunnerBill

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, Artem Lipatov said:

It was a Billsy move when we invited Wrex after beating his Jets twice and having top5 Schwarz defence.

 

What's your point here?

 

 

[BBills88]

10 hours ago, Billznut said:

That’s what I’m afraid of most of Daboll leaves 

I dont understand the fear. We didn't know what we were getting in Mc Dermott as a first time head coach. Ken Dorsey a former QB (Reich & Pederson worked out fine as OC's). Ken Dorsey could be exactly what the offense needs if Dabol left. 

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by BBills88

[Artem Lipatov]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What's your point here?

 

 

Just found similarity

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I'm conflicted on this, believe it or not.

 

I'm not a HUGE fan of Daboll, and have thought maybe he needed to go. However, I'm a BIG fan of continuity, given our team's history of a lack of it.

 

So not entirely sure how I feel about this.

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I find it very unlikely he would get the job there.  Possible i guess?  What about Pat Shurmur?  

[SectionC3]

33 minutes ago, colin said:

 

ok, so you think we just don't have the horses to run a screen play, whatever.  i disagree, i think we simply don't prepare and practice for it because we have too many plays and formations taking up all of our time.

 

what about our lack of 3rd and makable, or lack of offensive identity, or constantly running gore into a pile?  sometimes it's not personal, sometimes it's coaching.

 

It’s not that we haven’t tried screens.  It’s that they don’t work.  (Think the Spain holding call, I believe it was against Pittsburgh but could be wrong on that.)  Allen played two series against the Jets, and his throws were on things that he/the offense need to work on.  (Screen left to Gore; looked like WR screen right - I sit on the other side of the stadium, so not completely sure what the design was there; and deep shot to Williams).  There’s no sense in running something that isn’t going to work.  

 

On the identity point, if you prefer that we line up 3 x 1 all of the time and attempt to dictate play to every opponent, we simply disagree.  By way of example, following the Ravens experience, we went heavy to avoid having Dupree, Watt, and company wreck the Steelers game.  It worked.  3 x 1 against the Ravens wasn’t so effective.  

 

On the Gore point, if memory serves Singletary has received the vast majority of the carries during the second half of the season and after he regained his health.  Gore’s carries tend to come when we’re trying to control the game on the ground, and his skill set does not lend itself to running outside the tackles frequently.  Think the first play in the “three run” goal line series against Pittsburgh where he was swallowed up.  Or think of the screen that had a bit of potential against the Jets that amounted to only five or so yards.  Gore gets the ball because he doesn’t fumble, and if he’s getting the ball he’s running between the tackles.  

27 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

I'm conflicted on this, believe it or not.

 

I'm not a HUGE fan of Daboll, and have thought maybe he needed to go. However, I'm a BIG fan of continuity, given our team's history of a lack of it.

 

So not entirely sure how I feel about this.

 

 

Given Allen’s progress, I desperately want continuity next year.  Even if Daboll goes, I’d like same terminology, same philosophy, and similar group back.  O’Shea seems to make sense if Daboll leaves, or an in house candidate that McDermott trusts.  

[colin]

6 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

It’s not that we haven’t tried screens.  It’s that they don’t work.  (Think the Spain holding call, I believe it was against Pittsburgh but could be wrong on that.)  Allen played two series against the Jets, and his throws were on things that he/the offense need to work on.  (Screen left to Gore; looked like WR screen right - I sit on the other side of the stadium, so not completely sure what the design was there; and deep shot to Williams).  There’s no sense in running something that isn’t going to work.  

 

On the identity point, if you prefer that we line up 3 x 1 all of the time and attempt to dictate play to every opponent, we simply disagree.  By way of example, following the Ravens experience, we went heavy to avoid having Dupree, Watt, and company wreck the Steelers game.  It worked.  3 x 1 against the Ravens wasn’t so effective.  

 

On the Gore point, if memory serves Singletary has received the vast majority of the carries during the second half of the season and after he regained his health.  Gore’s carries tend to come when we’re trying to control the game on the ground, and his skill set does not lend itself to running outside the tackles frequently.  Think the first play in the “three run” goal line series against Pittsburgh where he was swallowed up.  Or think of the screen that had a bit of potential against the Jets that amounted to only five or so yards.  Gore gets the ball because he doesn’t fumble, and if he’s getting the ball he’s running between the tackles.  

 

Given Allen’s progress, I desperately want continuity next year.  Even if Daboll goes, I’d like same terminology, same philosophy, and similar group back.  O’Shea seems to make sense if Daboll leaves, or an in house candidate that McDermott trusts.  

 

Gore got run into a pile over and over again vs cleveland, while motor was beating the breaks off of them.  even the announcers were baffled at how futile our predictable O was.  Yeldon and motor have the wheels and hands to run screens, and motor has even had a couple go for big yardage (i THINK even vs cleveland). 

 

we are too predictable in what we will do based on down, distance, and formation.  we also have too many formations/groupings/play combos.  misdirection and different looks to set up plays which we run effectively is what is missing.  we are bottom 5 or so in passing and overall O, but top 9 in chunk plays (and the distance from 5th to 9 is really small wrt number of big plays) and are near the top on 3rd and long and still pretty solid in the red zone.  that shows me that when we just line up and play we do have the ability to make Ds play and make things happen, but we totally lack consistency and our drives stall out terribly.  screens or just short quick execution low difficulty dump off passes can help us vs pressure, but we simply do not run those.  we need better tackle play, maybe an upgrade at LG, another back and a big body WR to have a chance at being a good O, but we could be a 22 -24 or so points per game O if we just had better play calling from our OC who simply does not have a good feel for the game.

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

It’s not that we haven’t tried screens.  It’s that they don’t work.  (Think the Spain holding call, I believe it was against Pittsburgh but could be wrong on that.)  Allen played two series against the Jets, and his throws were on things that he/the offense need to work on.  (Screen left to Gore; looked like WR screen right - I sit on the other side of the stadium, so not completely sure what the design was there; and deep shot to Williams).  There’s no sense in running something that isn’t going to work.  

 

On the identity point, if you prefer that we line up 3 x 1 all of the time and attempt to dictate play to every opponent, we simply disagree.  By way of example, following the Ravens experience, we went heavy to avoid having Dupree, Watt, and company wreck the Steelers game.  It worked.  3 x 1 against the Ravens wasn’t so effective.  

 

On the Gore point, if memory serves Singletary has received the vast majority of the carries during the second half of the season and after he regained his health.  Gore’s carries tend to come when we’re trying to control the game on the ground, and his skill set does not lend itself to running outside the tackles frequently.  Think the first play in the “three run” goal line series against Pittsburgh where he was swallowed up.  Or think of the screen that had a bit of potential against the Jets that amounted to only five or so yards.  Gore gets the ball because he doesn’t fumble, and if he’s getting the ball he’s running between the tackles.  

 

Given Allen’s progress, I desperately want continuity next year.  Even if Daboll goes, I’d like same terminology, same philosophy, and similar group back.  O’Shea seems to make sense if Daboll leaves, or an in house candidate that McDermott trusts.  

 

It was a bubble screen right 2nd play of the game to McKenzie. You are correct. 

[Nihilarian]

51 minutes ago, colin said:

assuming we can land shurmer or someone like that, i'm all for dabol leaving to another team.

 

him trotting gore out and running him into a wall so often, duke never playing although he is our only big body wr, him taking so long to make motor or offensive focus (and still kinda getting away from him as well), our inability to beat aggressive blitzes with man coverage, NO ABILITY TO RUN A SCREEN, and most importantly the penalties and lack of offensive identity just shows that our O isn't cohesive, we don't have bread and butter go to plays, and our ability to score in the redzone and convert third and long with the best in the NFL is simply a function of allen using his legs and extending plays, not his drawn up O.

I agree! 

 

Bills fans seem to forget the 2018 season in which Daboll would go pass happy all game as soon as the Bills got behind in as little as three points. Plus, the Bills threw deep more often over any other NFL team and yet this with one of the very worst offensive lines in the league. This made no sense. 

 

First he starts Peterman.  Next he asks a very raw, inexperienced QB to throw deep which usually requires time in the pocket the QB didn't have. Once the OC saw that Allen was unbelievably good at running when the pocket breaks down, he then starts calling QB runs. 

 

This season Daboll stating that the Browns were stacking the box to stop the run this season. This with 17 passes from Allen in the first half and only 3 runs from Singletary. Against the #2 in the league pass rusher in Myles Garrett. Allen 41 passes vs 20 rushes. That Cleveland game should have been a win and Daboll was out coached by Kitchens... who was just fired!  

 

The Ravens game in which the Bills OC had no answer for that cover 0 blitz. The Ravens brought seven and Daboll had no answer, not in the run game, not in the pass game. Allen was sacked six times. This with the extra time to prepare from the Thursday night game against Dallas the week previous. Asking Josh Allen to throw 39 times vs 23 runs.  Singletary averaged 5.2 yards per carry in this game and simply wasn't utilized enough. 

 

The Bills defense held that vaunted Ravens offense to 24 points when they had beaten the Patriots #1 defense by 37, Bengals by 49, Texans by 41, Rams by 45 and went on to score 42 against the NY Jets after the Buffalo game. Another game the Bills could have won. 

 

The Bills were dominated on the offensive line against the Patriots, Eagles, Ravens and this OC had no answer. I don't get the love by some for a guy who's offense this season barely scored enough against bad teams to win games. 

[Dopey]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Not really.

 

They've been pretty conservative since the Patriots game outside of the Miami and Cowboys game(ironically their best offensive performances). 

If Josh hits 2 long passes vs. Baltimore we have 14 more points and probably win. Against on hell of a defense. If Josh hits 2 wide open passes in the 1st NE game, we score 14 more points and win that game. Those were deep, wide open plays. Daboll called those plays, Josh missed on them. Some of you seem to see any play that doesn't get converted as a bad play call. If that's the case, all OC's suck.

[dave mcbride]

14 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

He was very unpopular as the OC there 

 

Maybe because his QBs were Brady Quinn, Derek Anderson, Colt McCoy and an 85-year old Jake Delhomme??

[iinii]

12 hours ago, BBills88 said:

Wouldn't the QB coach be the next man up as OC?

Not necessarily 

[Victory Formation]

Jason Garrett is a guy I would love to see if Daboll moves on. Has head coaching experience, can run a good offense, really knows X’s and O’s. Highly unlikely he gets a head coaching job again, would provide stability and experience. He is the perfect fit for Allen.

 

 

[Nihilarian]

11 minutes ago, Dopey said:

If Josh hits 2 long passes vs. Baltimore we have 14 more points and probably win. Against on hell of a defense. If Josh hits 2 wide open passes in the 1st NE game, we score 14 more points and win that game. Those were deep, wide open plays. Daboll called those plays, Josh missed on them. Some of you seem to see any play that doesn't get converted as a bad play call. If that's the case, all OC's suck.

Yes, Josh Allen missed a lot of passes this season. Now ask the question why?

 

Ask why Allen who hit a few bombs to Robert Foster last season can't connect this season? Josh has the strongest arm in the NFL and yet has hit only 3 of 34 passes over 30 yards . An 8.8%. In the first six games this season Allen was 0-10.

 

Allen finished the season with a 58.8% completion percentage. Matt Barkley finished with a 52.9% when in other seasons he had a 61.2%, 59.7%, 60.0%.

 

Now ask Is it all Josh Allen? 

 

 

 

On another note.Bills fans have been clamoring for Buffalo to find a big, tall WR who can go up and get those contested balls. Bills fans have been clamoring all season to see Duke Williams (6'3'' 225lbs) on the field and in a meaningless game against the Jets he has 6 receptions for 108 yards. TJ Yeldon finally gets some work, a guy who has been very good as a receiver out of the backfield. 

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Why are we assuming that Daboll is to credit for Josh's progression. Could it not be just as likely that Dorsey's work with him this year was the difference? 

 

And Jordan Palmer for that matter. I credit Palmer for fixing his mechanics during the offseason, and Daboll/Dorsey for coaching the dumb turnovers out of him. It was a group effort. I appreciate what Daboll has done here and I would prefer continuity but it's not a disaster if Cleveland hires him.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

17 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

And Jordan Palmer for that matter. I credit Palmer for fixing his mechanics during the offseason, and Daboll/Dorsey for coaching the dumb turnovers out of him. It was a group effort. I appreciate what Daboll has done here and I would prefer continuity but it's not a disaster if Cleveland hires him.

Allen's mechanics stink. That's on Allen, no one else. He'll have to commit to getting that part fixed.

Edited December 31, 2019 by Buffalo_Stampede

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

There was the end of that Vikings game where Prescott was hot got them down the field and then they suddenly went to Zeke in the redzone 3 times

 

See I think this also works to describe Daboll's biggest problem. I have seen this exact scenario with Frank Gore too many times this year.

[clayboy54]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Allen's mechanics stink. That's on Allen, no one else. He'll have to commit to getting that part fixed.

I don't care about what Allen drives and who he uses to get his car fixed. I think he has made one helluva step forward this season. This proves to me that he has what it takes to get to the next level, whether you like it or not.

[BADOLBILZ]

53 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Maybe because his QBs were Brady Quinn, Derek Anderson, Colt McCoy and an 85-year old Jake Delhomme??

 

 

Chan Gailey had the Bills at 14th in the NFL in scoring in 2011 with a lot less talent than this Bills team.

 

I enjoy some of the plays Daboll draws up but ultimately the problem with defending him is that he has just never had that moment where he clearly coached up the talent.

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:

I don't care about what Allen drives and who he uses to get his car fixed. I think he has made one helluva step forward this season. This proves to me that he has what it takes to get to the next level, whether you like it or not.

Doesn't really matter what I think. He's made tremendous strides. He's still a very flawed QB. A lot to work on. It's going to be up to him to fix his flaws, no one else. It's going to happen in the offseason. That's where you get better with mechanics. I think he'll work at it.

 

 

[T master]

Of all the candidates out there i would think he doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of being picked ...

[MAJBobby]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Do we get to dictate the place as well?

 

 

No.  Stupidity is not against the TOS, only certain manners of displaying it

Yes. If we win Saturday we dictate the time and location (likely will be in Buffalo.) and I could see them also say Sunday after the win before game prep even starts. But I would force later in week after prep complete. Hence after the walkthrough