Austin Hooper, FA to be. Would ya?

[Virgil]

Tight End in Atlanta whose gotten better every year.  Big performer and about to be an unrestricted free agent.  Falcons have big salary cap issues. 
 

I know we have Knox and just signed Kroft, but this guy is big, fast, and has hands.  He can pull down high point passes and would be a legit end zone threat.  He lines up at receiver a lot. 
 

I’d love to see us cut Kroft and go after him.   He’d be highly utilized in Daboll’s offense and I think he could be a go to guy for Allen that would draw attention from everyone else.  
 

I’d as much want him as a big bodied number one.  Brown, Beasley; Hooper, Singletary, and Knox on the field all at once sounds pretty good to me.  
 

He’s gonna cost money, but probably only 4-5 mil more than Kroft.  That’s a worthy upgrade to me. 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Virgil

[Canadian Bills Fan]

If it made cap sense, I wouldn't mind cutting Kroft and making a run at Hooper

 

Don't know how much of a cap hit it would be to cut Kroft after 1 year

[Logic]

I like Hooper, but I think Knox/Kroft/Sweeney will be the tight end depth chart for the next few years. Don't count out Jason Croom, who is on IR but who will fight for a roster spot as a flex tight end this coming offseason.

[jwhit34]

Per Spotrac Kroft dead cap in '20 is $1.6 million. If they could upgrade with Hooper that would be worth it, he's really good.

 

Kroft contract is a good example of Beane/front office structuring contracts in a prudent way. His base salary next year is $4.5M but had only a limited amount in guarantees thus only $1.6M in dead cap if released. 

 

Hooper, Knox, Brown, Beasley and either FA WR or 1st round WR pick plus Singletary out of backfield - now you've got weapons. 

[peterpan]

Knox has made some big plays, but he's had a high number of drops too.  We need someone more consistent at TE 1.  Plus I love the idea of multiple stud TEs.  

 

OJ Howard is another guy whom seems under utilized and could be had.  Maybe via trade if he's not a FA yet.  It's possible bc TB will likely be looking for a QB.

[RoyBatty is alive]

No, we have enough in TEs already, interested to see how Sweeney and Knox progress.  Know is a real talent but his hands are a bit concerning.

Edited December 3, 2019 by RoyBatty is alive

[Just Joshin']

Not a high priority.  Would target DL, OL and WR ahead of TE with our $.  The way to cap jail is to load up on duplicate players unless he is a true difference maker.  While improved, is he elite?

[whatdrought]

I wouldn't hate Hooper or Hunter Henry. Henry is injury prone, but might be cheaper. 

 

Another random FA name to look out for is Shaq Thompson, LB from Carolina. If Lorax retires, he might fit in as our Strong Side Backer. 

[Rc2catch]

It doesn’t matter what tight end you bring in. Our tight end production is not because of talent or inability to get open it’s simply Allen doesn’t look for them often or Daboll does not have them as part of the passing game plan. Knox and even Kroft can have waaaaaaay better stats they just are not targeted much. Neither is probably as good of a pass catcher as hooper but it does no good to spend huge money on the same production you’re already getting. Hooper is going to get top 10 tight end money which means 8-10 million a season, he’s not signing some super friendly team deal to join buffalo like Kroft did. Atlanta has been terrible for two years, horrid defense and losing most of their games, so since Matt Ryan has to throw 40+ times a game and they have Julio and Ridley outside I would expect Hooper to gobble up open targets. I know buffalo can afford it I just don’t see the point. Jordan Phillips is going to get paid, maybe shaq, gonna extend some young guys coming off rookie deals. 

[Virgil]

3 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

I wouldn't hate Hooper or Hunter Henry. Henry is injury prone, but might be cheaper. 

 

Another random FA name to look out for is Shaq Thompson, LB from Carolina. If Lorax retires, he might fit in as our Strong Side Backer. 

I want both. 

 

Then the draft is DE, WR, and depth.  This team is a mismatch and setup 

2 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

It doesn’t matter what tight end you bring in. Our tight end production is not because of talent or inability to get open it’s simply Allen doesn’t look for them often or Daboll does not have them as part of the passing game plan. Knox and even Kroft can have waaaaaaay better stats they just are not targeted much. Neither is probably as good of a pass catcher as hooper but it does no good to spend huge money on the same production you’re already getting. Hooper is going to get top 10 tight end money which means 8-10 million a season, he’s not signing some super friendly team deal to join buffalo like Kroft did. Atlanta has been terrible for two years, horrid defense and losing most of their games, so since Matt Ryan has to throw 40+ times a game and they have Julio and Ridley outside I would expect Hooper to gobble up open targets. I know buffalo can afford it I just don’t see the point. Jordan Phillips is going to get paid, maybe shaq, gonna extend some young guys coming off rookie deals. 

I would gladly pay Hooper 8-10 a year.  Put the money from cutting Kroft towards him. 
 

i disagree on Allen not looking towards them 

[thenorthremembers]

1 minute ago, Virgil said:

I want both. 

 

Then the draft is DE, WR, and depth.  This team is a mismatch and setup 

I would gladly pay Hooper 8-10 a year.  Put the money from cutting Kroft towards him. 
 

i disagree on Allen not looking towards them 

I cant see paying a tight end 8-10 Million dollars a year when you have Knox.     I agree Kroft probably needs to go, and I agree we probably need to add another decent tight end, but Id rather have them go get someone like Jack Doyle for a bit less money.  

[John from Riverside]

Im actually liking Knox and Sweeney

 

We need a big fast wr that can catch

[Rc2catch]

10 minutes ago, Virgil said:

i disagree on Allen not looking towards them 

 
I took a peak just to be sure, Hooper is already over 70 targets this season. Knox is under 40. I didn’t look at Kroft cause there’s no way he’s been targeted much. 
Hoopers lowest targets per game was 5, which is knoxs best almost at 6. 

Hooper by himself is targeted more in Atlanta than all of our tight ends combined here. Add in the fact Matt Ryan cannot run and HAS to get the ball out in less than 5 seconds or it’s an auto sack plus they have a bad o line and zero running game. Allen did not target tight ends last year, and not much this year, either that’s him or Daboll I do not know. Allen spreads the ball around even when someone is hot. He does not force feed targets 

[BBills88]

we still have Croom

[Virgil]

2 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

 
I took a peak just to be sure, Hooper is already over 70 targets this season. Knox is under 40. I didn’t look at Kroft cause there’s no way he’s been targeted much. 
Hoopers lowest targets per game was 5, which is knoxs best almost at 6. 

Hooper by himself is targeted more in Atlanta than all of our tight ends combined here. Add in the fact Matt Ryan cannot run and HAS to get the ball out in less than 5 seconds or it’s an auto sack plus they have a bad o line and zero running game. Allen did not target tight ends last year, and not much this year, either that’s him or Daboll I do not know. Allen spreads the ball around even when someone is hot. He does not force feed targets 

I think this speaks more to Hoopers talent and mismatch than QBs looking to him.  He’s a genuine mismatch and almost Gronk like.  
 

He’s that level of TE talent to me.  He’s arguable the best in the league, young, and getting better.  
 

I think he would demand targets and defensive attention 

Just now, BBills88 said:

we still have Croom

I really think you are underestimating Hooper 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

Tight End in Atlanta whose gotten better every year.  Big performer and about to be an unrestricted free agent.  Falcons have big salary cap issues. 
 

I know we have Knox and just signed Kroft, but this guy is big, fast, and has hands.  He can pull down high point passes and would be a legit end zone threat.  He lines up at receiver a lot. 
 

I’d love to see us cut Kroft and go after him.   He’d be highly utilized in Daboll’s offense and I think he could be a go to guy for Allen that would draw attention from everyone else.  
 

I’d as much want him as a big bodied number one.  Brown, Beasley; Hooper, Singletary, and Knox on the field all at once sounds pretty good to me.  
 

He’s gonna cost money, but probably only 4-5 mil more than Kroft.  That’s a worthy upgrade to me. 

I have always liked Hooper. I also feel like having a 2 TE formation in a hurry up offense is where you get the most mismatches. With a good TE like Hooper and a soon to be good TE like Knox on the field at the same time teams won’t know what to do. 

 

I would actually prefer having 2 fast WR’s that are good route runners with good hands with two eliteTE’s always on the field. 

 

After watching Hernandez and Gronk make DC’s heads explode it’s a easy call for me. 

[BBills88]

2 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I think this speaks more to Hoopers talent and mismatch than QBs looking to him.  He’s a genuine mismatch and almost Gronk like.  
 

He’s that level of TE talent to me.  He’s arguable the best in the league, young, and getting better.  
 

I think he would demand targets and defensive attention 

I really think you are underestimating Hooper 

The more good weapons the better for our team.

[SCBills]

I like this idea on the surface, but with Knox looking like our TE1 of the future, I don't know that this is the financial move unless we simply have $$$ to throw around.

 

Up-Tempo 11 Personnel looks to be our identity on Offense.   Probably doesn't make a ton of sense to sign a FA TE, when we're only  needing one of Kroft/Sweeney/Croom to be a TE2.

 

I'd spend in FA on keeping this OL together and continuing to solidify this defense as a top 5 unit.

 

Draft WR/RB/EDGE in Rounds 1-3.

 

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by SCBills

[Virgil]

I apologize for the music, but just a sample.  Comparing him to anyone on our roster is insane to me.  Knox could get there, but having two of them....my god. 
 

 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

1 minute ago, BBills88 said:

we still have Croom

Don’t ever say his name again. This is the guy who will fumble the ball or whiffs on a block that gets Allen injured. Croom has horrid football awareness, route running and is a horrid blocker. I don’t trust his hands either. 

[ogham26]

yep id be all for it.  Cut ties with kroft and then continue to develop knox and sweeny.  

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

I'm in!

[RyanC883]

Yes.  Adding Hooper is almost like adding a WR1 IMO.  He's a mismatch, and will further free up Beasley and Brown and Knox.  We can then spend other FA money on Edge, and draft more WR, OL, DL, RB (will need another) etc.  

 

 

39 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Im actually liking Knox and Sweeney

 

We need a big fast wr that can catch

 

draft has a ton.  I'd go w/ Hooper, Knox, draft WR.  

[The Jokeman]

Eric Ebron, Hunter Henry and Jack Doyle are also set to be UFAs who could be looked at as improvements too. We have other needs, such as re-signing/replacing Jordan Phillips, Shaq, possibly replacing LorAx, replacing Levi and/or Kevin Johnson, maybe Frank Gore maybe depth at OT. So we do have some cap room but some needs to fill yet not sure I make TE top priority as rather keep are defense top notch and let Knox develop more and move Kroft further down the depth chart since he's not killing our cap. 

Edited December 3, 2019 by The Jokeman

[GunnerBill]

I am riding with Knox. Paying big cash for FA Tight Ends is not for me. 

[MJS]

We have a TE.

[Big Gun]

OMG, does it ever stop!

 

Our TE are good and I'd rather the money be spent on WR , LB, K, OL, you know things that are needed.

[warrior9]

1 hour ago, Rc2catch said:

 
I took a peak just to be sure, Hooper is already over 70 targets this season. Knox is under 40. I didn’t look at Kroft cause there’s no way he’s been targeted much. 
Hoopers lowest targets per game was 5, which is knoxs best almost at 6. 

Hooper by himself is targeted more in Atlanta than all of our tight ends combined here. Add in the fact Matt Ryan cannot run and HAS to get the ball out in less than 5 seconds or it’s an auto sack plus they have a bad o line and zero running game. Allen did not target tight ends last year, and not much this year, either that’s him or Daboll I do not know. Allen spreads the ball around even when someone is hot. He does not force feed targets 

Isn't this true for 99.99% of QBs? lol

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

I really think you are underestimating Hooper 

[billsfan89]

I would love Hooper, cut Kroft as his cap hit is minimal if cut. Hooper's contract could be structured to have an easy out after 3 years which will allow him to be cut or traded once Knox's contract is up. I think Knox has pro-bowl potential but he is still very very raw. I think he is more than likely 2 years away from being a consistent player. Hooper would bridge that gap with elite level play and open the possibility for elite level TE play from two players (along with having Sweeney for depth and hopefully taking over Smith's role after 2020.) 

 

But is TE a priority to the point where the Bills should sign the top guy on the market? No and while I wouldn't hate adding an elite weapon like Hooper I think the Bills have to do a cost benefit analysis of wither or not their cap dollars are better spent elsewhere. 

 

I think given the future contract extensions needed in the next two seasons along with some starters who are free agents this off-season (Shaq, J.Phillips, and Spain) you only really have maybe 20-30 million in cap space to to go after supplemental free agents which if you take those factors into consideration is a TE on the top of your list to tie up a lot of your free agency dollars in? 

 

I think you are better off spending that "discretionary" money on a pass rusher and a number two corner on defense or chasing a WR1 if one hits the market. As opposed to going after a more mid-level FA at TE to take Kroft's position and keep developing Knox. 

[Virgil]

26 minutes ago, MJS said:

We have a TE.

Apparently you can have two.  
 

The Hooper/Knox matchup could be a think of nightmares for other teams.  
 

Could be just like the Gronk/Hernandez tandem, but with less....casualties 

[Rc2catch]

47 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

Isn't this true for 99.99% of QBs? lol

Not at all, plenty of guys can extend things in the pocket. Ryan cannot. 

[IgotBILLStopay]

3 hours ago, Virgil said:

Tight End in Atlanta whose gotten better every year.  Big performer and about to be an unrestricted free agent.  Falcons have big salary cap issues. 
 

I know we have Knox and just signed Kroft, but this guy is big, fast, and has hands.  He can pull down high point passes and would be a legit end zone threat.  He lines up at receiver a lot. 
 

I’d love to see us cut Kroft and go after him.   He’d be highly utilized in Daboll’s offense and I think he could be a go to guy for Allen that would draw attention from everyone else.  
 

I’d as much want him as a big bodied number one.  Brown, Beasley; Hooper, Singletary, and Knox on the field all at once sounds pretty good to me.  
 

He’s gonna cost money, but probably only 4-5 mil more than Kroft.  That’s a worthy upgrade to me. 

Nice find. We can easily move away from Kroft - Dead Cap is only 1.6 million. Hooper is a very good run blocker and also very good at making contested catches (think Duke Williams). The knock on him was that he was not quick enough. But he can easily give you 600+ yards from the TE spot.

[BillsShredder83]

2 hours ago, Virgil said:

I apologize for the music, but just a sample.  Comparing him to anyone on our roster is insane to me.  Knox could get there, but having two of them....my god. 
 

 

Agreed. I dont know why people think you can only have one good TE. Hes a stud. Side note, you're one of my favorite posters here. Nice mix between humor/quality posts, find myself agreeing with you alot.

Back to the original point, does nobody remember Gronk/Murderer as a duo. It's such a unique mismatch, you cant possibly put the correct personnel on the field to deal with it.

[Don Otreply]

3 hours ago, Canadian Bills Fan said:

If it made cap sense, I wouldn't mind cutting Kroft and making a run at Hooper

 

Don't know how much of a cap hit it would be to cut Kroft after 1 year

Been wrong many times, but I think Kroft is likely gone before next season. Beane & SM may already be investigating the possibility.  We all know BB doesn’t actually sleep.

[Process]

11 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Agreed. I dont know why people think you can only have one good TE. Hes a stud. Side note, you're one of my favorite posters here. Nice mix between humor/quality posts, find myself agreeing with you alot.

Back to the original point, does nobody remember Gronk/Murderer as a duo. It's such a unique mismatch, you cant possibly put the correct personnel on the field to deal with it.

Get a room you two 

[NewEra]

Nope.  Save the money to resign our guys and add the right difference makers.  He’s a nice player but I’d rather spend our resources elsewhere 

[BillsShredder83]

2 minutes ago, Process said:

Get a room you two 

I know you're jealous, but maybe we can still be friends? Lol

[tcampbell104]

3 hours ago, peterpan said:

Knox has made some big plays, but he's had a high number of drops too.  We need someone more consistent at TE 1.  Plus I love the idea of multiple stud TEs.  

 

OJ Howard is another guy whom seems under utilized and could be had.  Maybe via trade if he's not a FA yet.  It's possible bc TB will likely be looking for a QB.

knox will improve his hands with time. i think next year he will be a true number one tight end

[warrior9]

40 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

Not at all, plenty of guys can extend things in the pocket. Ryan cannot. 

For 5 seconds? That's an eternity. lol