Can the Detractors Now Admit Allen's Growth?

[NoHuddleKelly12]

8 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

As a resident Allen detractor, I thought he did a lot of encouraging things early in the season that were stronger evidence of growth than today . Not that he didn't play great today - he did, but this Miami Dolphins team is one of the worst squads I've seen in the last 30 years. It's hard to use them as much of a barometer of anything. It's essentially a pre-season game that counts.

What does that say about the teams the Fish have beat this season? Just saying, they’re hardly the measure of all-time worst, bad as they no doubt are overall. 

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

The way I interpret "aggressive," is "in a groove," and I agree 100%.  Gotta keep the pace up with Allen.  He flourishes in that setting.

 

I keep saying it but more than any QB I can ever remember Josh Allen is a rhythm Quarterback. His first throw of a drive so often is definitive of what the drive will be. If his first pass hits he looks a totally different Quarterback - he is decisive in his reads, the ball starts coming out on time and he is not just accurate he is pretty precise. When the first throw is off the mark even if the Bills go and convert a first down he never quite seems "in a groove" on that drive as a result. He was largely in the groove last night. The play calling, while not perfect (I hate endzone fades - even before you throw one to a sub 6ft receiver), was pretty good and the Bills got things clicking nicely. I get the people saying "Ah it is only the Dolphins..." but this was better than what we have seen against some less than stellar opponents in other games recently.

[r00tabaga]

Where is @ScottLaw, @Nextmanup, @billsfan1982.......

They are listed as week to week.

 

[fergie's ire]

Why I have always been a Josh Allen fan is that he seems like a learner.  Some quarterbacks make the same mistakes over and over.  (How many times did JP Losman try to loop out of the pocket and turn his back on the defense, only to lose like 15 yards on a sack.)  Last year, the mid range passes with air under them were a weakness of Allen's and this year they are much better.  In the Patriots game, the interceptions were a problem, so he hasn't thrown one since (and may even be trying too hard not to throw interceptions).  At this point, it seems Allen can do just about everything you want a quarterback to do (except that deep ball).

 

What's frustrating is he never seems to be able to put everything together in one game....I keep thinking it is going to happen and we will have that "wow" game, but not yet.  In this game, we saw Allen read defenses better than he has been doing, and also beat pressure than in recent games.  However, I think it was actually one of his least accurate games.  I was one who disagreed with the "inaccurate" label (or at least found it to be....well...inaccurate).  If he threw the ball on a line, he could the ball in tight windows consistently.  This game his ball seemed to be frequently a yard or two off, and sometimes was caught and sometimes not.  I think of the sideline pass to McKenzie that was short or the out to Brown that led him way too much.  As I said, I think he is normally accurate with those throws.  It's just one more case of when he does everything else well, what he normally does well slips.  It's very odd.

[Sundancer]

How about we keep not judging Allen week to week as "boom" or "bust" but look to see if it's overall a trending line up or down? 

 

He is much better than last year in the important areas: Turnovers, staying in the pocket, completions on intermediate throws. He has retained confidence, clutch ability, ability to run. 

 

He needs to work on a complete game and deeper balls. 

 

As this season has gone on, he's developing chemistry with his team, which is important with 9 new starters.

 

Beane will find him a big downfield target this off-season. Beasley is nice in the slot but gets knocked over by the wind. Brown is a very good WR but is also not a YAC or 50-50 guy. They don't necessarily need a name #1--but they do need a guy who can go deep with size and be a big target on a slant. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Sundancer

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, fergie's ire said:

Why I have always been a Josh Allen fan is that he seems like a learner.  Some quarterbacks make the same mistakes over and over.  (How many times did JP Losman try to loop out of the pocket and turn his back on the defense, only to lose like 15 yards on a sack.)  Last year, the mid range passes with air under them were a weakness of Allen's and this year they are much better.  In the Patriots game, the interceptions were a problem, so he hasn't thrown one since (and may even be trying too hard not to throw interceptions).  At this point, it seems Allen can do just about everything you want a quarterback to do (except that deep ball).

 

What's frustrating is he never seems to be able to put everything together in one game....I keep thinking it is going to happen and we will have that "wow" game, but not yet.  In this game, we saw Allen read defenses better than he has been doing, and also beat pressure than in recent games.  However, I think it was actually one of his least accurate games.  I was one who disagreed with the "inaccurate" label (or at least found it to be....well...inaccurate).  If he threw the ball on a line, he could the ball in tight windows consistently.  This game his ball seemed to be frequently a yard or two off, and sometimes was caught and sometimes not.  I think of the sideline pass to McKenzie that was short or the out to Brown that led him way too much.  As I said, I think he is normally accurate with those throws.  It's just one more case of when he does everything else well, what he normally does well slips.  It's very odd.

 

64% completion rate, and how many total touchdowns?

 

[Sundancer]

21 minutes ago, fergie's ire said:

However, I think it was actually one of his least accurate games.  I was one who disagreed with the "inaccurate" label (or at least found it to be....well...inaccurate).  If he threw the ball on a line, he could the ball in tight windows consistently.  This game his ball seemed to be frequently a yard or two off, and sometimes was caught and sometimes not.  I think of the sideline pass to McKenzie that was short or the out to Brown that led him way too much.  As I said, I think he is normally accurate with those throws.  It's just one more case of when he does everything else well, what he normally does well slips.  It's very odd.

 

250+ passing, 3 TDs passing...60 on the ground and 1 TD rushing. And in the last 10 minutes, they were in eat the clock mode. 

 

And you're complaining about his 64% completion rate? Everyone misses some passes. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Sundancer

[finn]

McDermott tells him to play fearlessly and Daboll goes up into the booth. Not hard to suspect a connection between the two, especially (as another poster pointed out) how on the sideline Daboll gets into his face after every mistake. Does anyone respond to that? Nice to vent your emotions but not at the expense of a guy who needs to know why he made the mistake and get ready for the next series. I wonder how Daboll would do if McDermott got in his face, publicly, after he makes a bone-headed mistake. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

8 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

The way I interpret "aggressive," is "in a groove," and I agree 100%.  Gotta keep the pace up with Allen.  He flourishes in that setting.

That’s one of the reasons I really loved seeing all of the no huddle employed yesterday—and it looked like the Dolphins struggled to keep up with what was hitting them. 

[C.Biscuit97]

8 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

He completed 64% of his passes today.  Stop it.  You're trying too hard to go against the grain and you look silly.  Don't you have a supermodel to take to dinner?

 

You’re such a hypocrite.   You completely dismissed this game Taylor had against Miami.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201612240buf.htm

 

he played really good against a really bad team.  Now do it against Dallas and Pittsburgh.  
 

and what psychopath goes out to dinner on Sunday.  That’s the day of football. Friday’s and Wednesday’s are date nights. 

[H2o]

Another thing to look at, aside from Josh completely flipping his TD to INT ratio over the last 6 weeks, is his baseline stats. Now I agree that stats do not tell the whole story. We have all seen him struggle at times on the field in certain games this year. But for a young man who was as raw as he was coming out of college, only having started 21 games now in the NFL, after playing against lesser opponents in college for the most part, and not having a plethora of talent around him at said college, he is completing passes at a 60.3% clip while being on pace for basically 3,500 yards passing with 20 TD passes to 11 INT's and 530 yards rushing with 11 more TD's to go with it. That's 4,000 yards of production and 30+ total TD's. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by H2o

[Putin]

31 minutes ago, fergie's ire said:

Why I have always been a Josh Allen fan is that he seems like a learner.  Some quarterbacks make the same mistakes over and over.  (How many times did JP Losman try to loop out of the pocket and turn his back on the defense, only to lose like 15 yards on a sack.)  Last year, the mid range passes with air under them were a weakness of Allen's and this year they are much better.  In the Patriots game, the interceptions were a problem, so he hasn't thrown one since (and may even be trying too hard not to throw interceptions).  At this point, it seems Allen can do just about everything you want a quarterback to do (except that deep ball).

 

What's frustrating is he never seems to be able to put everything together in one game....I keep thinking it is going to happen and we will have that "wow" game, but not yet.  In this game, we saw Allen read defenses better than he has been doing, and also beat pressure than in recent games.  However, I think it was actually one of his least accurate games.  I was one who disagreed with the "inaccurate" label (or at least found it to be....well...inaccurate).  If he threw the ball on a line, he could the ball in tight windows consistently.  This game his ball seemed to be frequently a yard or two off, and sometimes was caught and sometimes not.  I think of the sideline pass to McKenzie that was short or the out to Brown that led him way too much.  As I said, I think he is normally accurate with those throws.  It's just one more case of when he does everything else well, what he normally does well slips.  It's very odd.

You don’t consider a 40 yard TD throw to smoke a deep ball ? 

 

[oldmanfan]

For detractors to acknowledge growth by Allen, they would actually have to show up on the board to comment after a win.  Many don't.  Many only show up after losses.  Why that is seems to me pathetic, but such is life.

[H2o]

2 minutes ago, Putin said:

You don’t consider a 40 yard TD throw to smoke a deep ball ? 

 

The ball was only thrown on a rope traveling 30 yards in the air. It doesn't count. He has to throw it in the air 60 on a dime for it to be considered a deep ball. 

[Nihilarian]

19 minutes ago, finn said:

McDermott tells him to play fearlessly and Daboll goes up into the booth. Not hard to suspect a connection between the two, especially (as another poster pointed out) how on the sideline Daboll gets into his face after every mistake. Does anyone respond to that? Nice to vent your emotions but not at the expense of a guy who needs to know why he made the mistake and get ready for the next series. I wonder how Daboll would do if McDermott got in his face, publicly, after he makes a bone-headed mistake. 

I agree with this.

 

Plus the fact that Daboll started the first series with a run by Singletary...a 22 yard run which caused the Dolphins defense to start keying on him. While Singletary didn't have a great day, it also took a lot of pressure off Allen in the pocket.

 

Also, it looked like Daboll called a better game and that might be because he was up top looking over the entire field of play.This week the offense was very balanced with 34 runs vs 33 passes. Not so many penalties either with only 5 for 50 yards. 

 

The Bills defense finally beat up on a lesser opponent and the Bills finally blew away a team that they should have blown up. 

 

Lastly, I gotta give a hats off to Fitz as he is such a gamer, knows he is on a 2-7 losing team and yet still plays his heart out! 

[Putin]

14 minutes ago, H2o said:

The ball was only thrown on a rope traveling 30 yards in the air. It doesn't count. He has to throw it in the air 60 on a dime for it to be considered a deep ball. 

So he has to throw it from his side of the field and the receiver has to catch it in the end zone , got it ? ?

Edited November 18, 2019 by Putin

[fergie's ire]

26 minutes ago, Putin said:

You don’t consider a 40 yard TD throw to smoke a deep ball ? 

 

Nope.  I don't.  These are the kinds of deep balls that Allen would throw last year....on a line.  I have yet to see him drop a ball over the shoulder of a deep receiver...a true "bomb." The only time I have seen that kind of throw was a pass to Foster last year, who was wide open, so he did not have to drop it over a defender.

[eball]

14 hours ago, Boca BIlls said:

Wait 1 game? I want consistency... EVERYONE wants consistency. ***** people put up these attack threads over 1 game, its pathetic.

 

Throw out the Pats*** game and Josh has accounted for 19 TDs against 7 turnovers in the other 9 games.  He hasn't thrown a pick in 5 weeks.  And even if we keep the Pats*** game it's still 20/10.  Over 60% completion percentage.

 

Consistent enough for ya?

[fergie's ire]

25 minutes ago, H2o said:

The ball was only thrown on a rope traveling 30 yards in the air. It doesn't count. He has to throw it in the air 60 on a dime for it to be considered a deep ball. 

Actually "on a rope" is the reason it doesn't count.  I'm not talking about the distance it traveled but the type of throw...something with air under it.  it doesn't have to be sixty yards, but it has to be able to get to a receiver who has a defender on his back.

[oldmanfan]

4 minutes ago, fergie's ire said:

Actually "on a rope" is the reason it doesn't count.  I'm not talking about the distance it traveled but the type of throw...something with air under it.  it doesn't have to be sixty yards, but it has to be able to get to a receiver who has a defender on his back.

You’re being silly at this point

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Seven and Three 

working on many more

That is the only stat I want to see.

[Putin]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

You’re being silly at this point

No it’s actually in a rule book ? 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I'm actually glad he still has things he can improve on. Why? because he hasn't reached his peak and still has potential for growth. I mean If he's getting 3500 yards and 30TDs of production with what he has right now.....Wow. The ceiling is very exciting if you're an actual Bills fan. Stay healthy Josh!

Edited November 18, 2019 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

[BADOLBILZ]

14 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Today was probably his best game. 

 

I don't think anyone sensible would dispute there has been progress from last year. That said, in the same way as nobody was asking to bench him last week nobody should be crowning him this week. 

 

This was a very encouraging performance now we need to see that consistency game to game. 

 

 

Exactly.   I loved to see him play better and no doubt he has improved but it certainly wasn't a break-out performance.    And we aren't likely to see one this season with this personnel.   As Archuleta alluded Flores knew they could shut the Bills WR corps down with man coverage but were so banged up in the secondary they couldn't do much about it.   Going to be some tough matchups for that wr group going forward.  

 

Would like to see them keep working on playing with more urgency/tempo.   It's easy to fall back on the old "run the no huddle/2 minute" to fix the offense but when defenses can otherwise match up on you it really is an advantage to limit the defense's ability to substitute and Allen is an energetic, athletic QB who looks more comfortable playing fast.

[fergie's ire]

6 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

You’re being silly at this point

No. I am not going to blindly trash Allen after a game like last week when I saw a lot of good for him...or call him inaccurate when I think that for the most part he is quite accurate.  However, I am not blindly going to look for ways to praise him after a game like yesterday, when I still think there is a big hole in his game.  I like Allen and THINK he can be a great quarterback, but I think anyone who is being honest and watches football regularly knows the kind of throw I am talking about.  Sometimes a tight end runs a 15 yard out and the defender is trailing to the inside.  The quarterback will throw a rope that the tight end catches in front of him.  On another play the tight end runs up the sideline with the defender trailing up field.  The quarterback lofts the ball and drops it over the defender to the tight end.  Both are 15 yard passes to the tight end, but very different passes.  Last year, Allen could not make the second throw with any kind of consistency.  It was clear in the Jets game.  Darnold was making those throws and Allen wasn't.  THIS year, Allen is making those throws consistently.  He has learned.  However, he still needs to learn how to do that on deep throws.  Sometimes there will be a defender between Allen and the receiver so "on a rope" won't work.

10 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

I'm actually glad he still has things he can improve on. Why? because he hasn't reached his peak and still has potential for growth. I mean If he's getting 3500 yards and 30TDs of production with what he has right now.....Wow. The ceiling is very exciting if you're an actual Bills fan. Stay healthy Josh!

I would agree.

[r00tabaga]

His 15 rushing TDs are the most by any QB the last 2 years. That includes LJax.

In 22 career games thats a lot.

38 TDs in 22 games (23 pass/15 rush).

 

Not as bad as everyone thinks....

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, fergie's ire said:

No. I am not going to blindly trash Allen after a game like last week when I saw a lot of good for him...or call him inaccurate when I think that for the most part he is quite accurate.  However, I am not blindly going to look for ways to praise him after a game like yesterday, when I still think there is a big hole in his game.  I like Allen and THINK he can be a great quarterback, but I think anyone who is being honest and watches football regularly knows the kind of throw I am talking about.  Sometimes a tight end runs a 15 yard out and the defender is trailing to the inside.  The quarterback will throw a rope that the tight end catches in front of him.  On another play the tight end runs up the sideline with the defender trailing up field.  The quarterback lofts the ball and drops it over the defender to the tight end.  Both are 15 yard passes to the tight end, but very different passes.  Last year, Allen could not make the second throw with any kind of consistency.  It was clear in the Jets game.  Darnold was making those throws and Allen wasn't.  THIS year, Allen is making those throws consistently.  He has learned.  However, he still needs to learn how to do that on deep throws.  Sometimes there will be a defender between Allen and the receiver so "on a rope" won't work.

I would agree.

I think that kind of throw is, at best, 1% of the total number of throws a QB makes in a season.  Criticizing a guy for not dropping a throw over a guy's shoulder from 4o yards away is to me nit picking.  I think that has as much to do with a WR adjusting to the throw as it does to the throw itself. 

[Matt_In_NH]

5 straight games with no INT's....I was not sure I would have thought that was possible earlier in the season.  He is on an upward projection for sure.  Still a ways to go but up is the right direction.

 

The whole play fearless thing may have largely been directed at Allen.

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You’re such a hypocrite.   You completely dismissed this game Taylor had against Miami.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201612240buf.htm

 

he played really good against a really bad team.  Now do it against Dallas and Pittsburgh.  
 

and what psychopath goes out to dinner on Sunday.  That’s the day of football. Friday’s and Wednesday’s are date nights. 

 

I've always maintained that Tyrod Taylor had 3 good games during his pathetic tenure with the Bills.  Two against Miami and one against Seattle (in a loss).  So no hypocrisy, here.

[Hsker4life]

15 hours ago, Boca BIlls said:

Wait 1 game? I want consistency... EVERYONE wants consistency. ***** people put up these attack threads over 1 game, its pathetic.

After 1 bad game, do you have the same “it’s just 1 game” mentality? 

[r00tabaga]

18 minutes ago, Hsker4life said:

After 1 bad game, do you have the same “it’s just 1 game” mentality? 

Nope, he doesn't. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You’re such a hypocrite.   You completely dismissed this game Taylor had against Miami.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201612240buf.htm

 

he played really good against a really bad team.  Now do it against Dallas and Pittsburgh.  
 

and what psychopath goes out to dinner on Sunday.  That’s the day of football. Friday’s and Wednesday’s are date nights. 

It is important that’s every one take note of the Sunday dinner point. This is law. 

[C.Biscuit97]

45 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I've always maintained that Tyrod Taylor had 3 good games during his pathetic tenure with the Bills.  Two against Miami and one against Seattle (in a loss).  So no hypocrisy, here.

And for the record, I will gladly admit Josh Allen absolutely owns Miami. He dominates them. Now, I just want to see it more against other teams.  

[Billsatlastin2018]

After beating up on the Division 3 Fish, this comparison comes out? ?

 

Watching the league this year there are a lot of mediocre to bad QBs

 

Allen is still developing but I would take him over these starting QBs:

 

Darnold

Fitz

Whoever in CIN

Rudolph

Baker Mayfield

Brisett

Tannehill

Foles/Minchu

Denver's Allen

Rivers (2019 version)

Trubisky

Wentz (yup)

Daniel Jones

Haskins

Winston

Carolinas Allen

Goff

 

That's 17 guys I'd rather have Allen than as of today.

 

Waaay more than me, if you phrase the question as to who is better right now? Imho, Goff, Foles, Rivers & Wentz need to be removed from the list.

 

Allen is in the same sentence as Mayfield & Brissett, perhaps a touch better than Rudolph or Minchu.

 

In any case, to be an effective, weekly star in the NFL, you need to be in the Top 10! Tenth would be good enough for me. Allen is not. He’s now in the second grouping from 11-21 and not near the bottom.. If he gets the Bills to 10-6, I’ll say carry on the evaluation.

 

8-8 won’t. Realistically, it’s likely to be 9-7 against the easiest sked the Bills have had this Millenium. Let’s see what transpires versus: Baltimore, @ Cowgirls, @ Pitt @ the Cheatriots!

 

THOSE are the tests.

[Billsatlastin2018]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

I think that kind of throw is, at best, 1% of the total number of throws a QB makes in a season.  Criticizing a guy for not dropping a throw over a guy's shoulder from 4o yards away is to me nit picking.  I think that has as much to do with a WR adjusting to the throw as it does to the throw itself. 

That is hard! Really, hard to do.
Except? The elite Top 10 QBs (think #1 Rodgers) have that skill.

Allen, absolutely does not!

 

This doesn’t make him a poor QB, but mid pack ones, simply aren’t good enough. He needs to get better at these types of throws. So far? ??
 

(As far as the WR adjusting, sometimes, that’s correct. Came into play on the final play of the game, when Wentz tossed up a floater. The Receiver, having 3 yards to the end line, did NOT keep running and instead, jumped a yard to soon.) But, I really think, that is not the issue with Josh!

Edited November 18, 2019 by Billsatlastin2018

[thebandit27]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Exactly.   I loved to see him play better and no doubt he has improved but it certainly wasn't a break-out performance.    And we aren't likely to see one this season with this personnel.   As Archuleta alluded Flores knew they could shut the Bills WR corps down with man coverage but were so banged up in the secondary they couldn't do much about it.   Going to be some tough matchups for that wr group going forward.  

 

Would like to see them keep working on playing with more urgency/tempo.   It's easy to fall back on the old "run the no huddle/2 minute" to fix the offense but when defenses can otherwise match up on you it really is an advantage to limit the defense's ability to substitute and Allen is an energetic, athletic QB who looks more comfortable playing fast.

 

Absolutely re tempo. Not just because of Allen's ability, but also because he operates so much better when teams can't change their personnel packages. When this kid has a bead on ya pre snap, you're screwed, because dude can make a play.

[dave mcbride]

He is absolutely getting better. He actually threw an accurate bomb yesterday too. It was incomplete (Brown was well covered), but it was definitely accurate. First accurate bomb this season, I think. 

[oldmanfan]

28 minutes ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

That is hard! Really, hard to do.
Except? The elite Top 10 QBs (think #1 Rodgers) have that skill.

Allen, absolutely does not!

 

This doesn’t make him a poor QB, but mid pack ones, simply aren’t good enough. He needs to get better at these types of throws. So far? ??
 

(As far as the WR adjusting, sometimes, that’s correct. Came into play on the final play of the game, when Wentz tossed up a floater. The Receiver, having 3 yards to the end line, did NOT keep running and instead, jumped a yard to soon.) But, I really think, that is not the issue with Josh!

Yeah, it’s something to continue working on.  But how many passes a year qualify?  Not many.  So relax.

[Figster]

57 minutes ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

That is hard! Really, hard to do.
Except? The elite Top 10 QBs (think #1 Rodgers) have that skill.

Allen, absolutely does not!

 

This doesn’t make him a poor QB, but mid pack ones, simply aren’t good enough. He needs to get better at these types of throws. So far? ??
 

(As far as the WR adjusting, sometimes, that’s correct. Came into play on the final play of the game, when Wentz tossed up a floater. The Receiver, having 3 yards to the end line, did NOT keep running and instead, jumped a yard to soon.) But, I really think, that is not the issue with Josh!

Myself personally, all the hard work on Allens short to mid range targeting took a toll on long range targeting because most throws are at a high velocity without much touch involved. Josh Allens forte' is laser shots into tight windows and nobody does it better IMO. Everything takes practice and because of the difference in throwing high velocity vs touch Allens long ball may just need practice IMO. Josh Allen is smarter then your average bear, stronger, and more fearless. Allens learning curve may differ from the average QB because he can do more by way of skill set and cover a larger amount of the playing field then your average QB. ( IMO )

 

At times Josh Allens targets lack separation or the size at WR to take full advantage of Allens throwing capabilities IMO.

 

I miss Sammy...  

Edited November 18, 2019 by Figster

[Billsatlastin2018]

“I miss Sammy...  “

 

Even better, on my horse here yet again, is that Beane boy needs to have a criteria to start before the Draft.

 

Beanie... you’re the GM in snowy, blustery Buffalo dude- not Florida, not the a West Coast, not in a Dome!!!

 

The criteria?
MINIMUM 6-3”, preferably 6-4! And then calibrate how much better a slightly slower target in the snow, rain, wind & ice, these protypes would be, than the speedy Smurfs they constantly go after and are invisible to their QB.

 

When the weather outside is frightful in the Season’s back half, Allen needs yuuuge targets, ones where his accuracy is lessened, because all he has to do is throw the ball up to a Gronk or Whitten prototype.

 

How OBD fails to see this, over and over and over, is beyond me!