100% problem with the Deep Ball this year.

[Billever76]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

The major issue is that Josh Allen routinely misses his receivers on deep balls by 10 yards.

 

No wide receiver in the NFL is going to make up for his area code accuracy. 

The thing your missing is he was hitting them throws last year but couldnt hit the ones being asked of him this year so i think your wrong

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, Billever76 said:

The thing your missing is he was hitting them throws last year but couldnt hit the ones being asked of him this year so i think your wrong

 

Sorry but he wasn't.

 

These stats include last year.

 

3 for 36 over his career on passes over 30 yards. 

 

Absolutely pitiful. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by jrober38

[Buffbills123]

12 hours ago, Allen2Moulds said:

Sorry if someone already made this point, but I'm at work and didn't have time to read through every post. 

 

Josh Allen is playing mistake free the last few games (bravo), but it's also severely hindering him.  The clear reason for not being able to connect on a deep ball, is his fear of throwing an interception.  As a result, the ball always ends up in no man's land.  Not only can it not be picked, but also has no chance of our guys coming down with it.  I mean, he hasn't even been close.  It's grossly overthrown every-time.  I've felt this way for weeks, but he just confirmed it in his post game presser.  They asked him if he can pin-point the reason, for not being able to hit the deep ball, and he just said, I don't know, followed by.......I don't know if I'm super anxious about under-throwing it, and getting an interception. The coaches have him playing scared. This is a major detriment to his development. News flash.....we are not winning the Super Bowl this year, but we have this special talent, that we need to develop. Peyton threw 33 picks his rookie year.  I'm sick of this ultra conservative approach.  The only we we are beating the better teams in this league, is if Josh plays up to his potential, and that's not happening with the leash that they have on him.  Let him go, and win or lose, live with the results.  We'll be better in the long run for it.

 

Was Josh Allen consistently completing deep shots prior to catching the turnover bug?  If memory serves me correctly, turnovers have always been a problem and the deep ball has just gotten worse.  Sounds like a bad case of the yips to me.  The coaching staff has designed route trees that have led to wide open receivers.  But sure, let’s just blame the coaching staff for impacting JA’s confidence and continue to coddle the guy.  What a joke.  Your post can be found in the 2013 archives, just replace Josh Allen with EJ Manuel. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Buffbills123

[Billever76]

10 hours ago, Lurker said:

I'd like to see them just forget about the deep ball.   I know you have to "keep the D honest."   But really, in today's NFL, who really relys on the deep ball anymore?  That's old school football.

 

Most high powered offenses today rely on short and intermediate throws and RUN AFTER THE CATCH.    That's the thing Buffalo can't seem to do with any frequency.   Singletary's 49-yard play against the Skins is the prototypical long ball in today's NFL:

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/highlight-devin-singletary-s-49-yard-catch-and-run

Thank you..i argued this point on a bills facebook page to very few people understanding of it

[Thurman#1]

Not really buying that the problem is that he doesn't want to throw INTs. No QB in history wants to throw INTs. And yet many manage to hit some deep balls.

 

The problem is much more likely mechanics. Young guy panic. An unwillingness / inability to throw it high and let guys run under it. That sort of thing.

[Billever76]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Sorry but he wasn't.

 

These stats include last year.

 

3 for 36 over his career on passes over 30 yards. 

 

Absolutely pitiful. 

We dont need passes over 30 yards...we need what allen is doing this year with a damn run game to open up playaction passes and to be more than one dimensional...allen is fine his ocs 3 to 1 pass to run playcalling is our biggest issue

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

11 hours ago, BillsRdue said:

BANG!!! These coaches have been stunting him all year and it's my biggest fear. Hell, he ran like a maniac last year and never fumbled. Why all the fumbles now. They have him so timid, it's sickening. This is an 8-1 team if they let us play ball. Maybe 9-0... I think we have it in us to get past NE if we unleashed the Kracken.

 

Interesting point. I don’t remember all the fumbling last year. 

[Thurman#1]

18 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

That's how I see it playing out. Daboll will be fired and McD will get a third crack at it. I never understood the Daboll hire to begin with. He had NEVER produced results in the NFL. The excuse was that he didn't have a QB. Well, this isn't working here so I fully expect the first move to be moving on from Daboll and McD choosing a 3rd OC, which is pretty rare and not a good look for McDermott. The hope is that A)he hires the right guy and B)Allen improves. Both things need to happen. I really don't think you can go into next season with the same OC/QB. This offense is fundamentally flawed and the franchise needs to find out if Allen is the guy. So he'll get a shot with a new OC. That's what I expect anyways.

 

 

 

I suppose it's possible.

 

Me, I see Daboll, McDermott and Beane getting another year. That's my guess. I see no reason to think we can't go into next season with the same lineup. Plenty of coach-QB combos improve from time, maturation and continual progress.

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Interesting point. I don’t remember all the fumbling last year. 

 

 

Eight fumbles in 11 games last year. That's a bit less but still a lot.

[DRA3196]

11 hours ago, Allen2Moulds said:

Sorry if someone already made this point, but I'm at work and didn't have time to read through every post. 

 

Josh Allen is playing mistake free the last few games (bravo), but it's also severely hindering him.  The clear reason for not being able to connect on a deep ball, is his fear of throwing an interception.  As a result, the ball always ends up in no man's land.  Not only can it not be picked, but also has no chance of our guys coming down with it.  I mean, he hasn't even been close.  It's grossly overthrown every-time.  I've felt this way for weeks, but he just confirmed it in his post game presser.  They asked him if he can pin-point the reason, for not being able to hit the deep ball, and he just said, I don't know, followed by.......I don't know if I'm super anxious about under-throwing it, and getting an interception. The coaches have him playing scared. This is a major detriment to his development. News flash.....we are not winning the Super Bowl this year, but we have this special talent, that we need to develop. Peyton threw 33 picks his rookie year.  I'm sick of this ultra conservative approach.  The only we we are beating the better teams in this league, is if Josh plays up to his potential, and that's not happening with the leash that they have on him.  Let him go, and win or lose, live with the results.  We'll be better in the long run for it.

You make several great points. I have noticed JA playing timid since the 3 int game against NE. He has looked slow to react and to me he looks like he is over processing what he is seeing on the field. Not how I want the leader of the offense to function. I also agree lets open it up. This year IS about his development. The problem is our soft schedule. Although it appears we are competitive we are clearly not dominating an inferior opponent, but just barely outscoring them. I think McDermott and Daboll are trying to protect Allen in hopes of winning now. Thus slowing his development. In addition I also believe that offensively, by leaning on our running game we can take the pressure off of Josh and not only be competitive but establish consistency and an offensive identity giving Josh time to figure things out. 

[Thurman#1]

5 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

We dont need passes over 30 yards...we need what allen is doing this year with a damn run game to open up playaction passes and to be more than one dimensional...allen is fine his ocs 3 to 1 pass to run playcalling is our biggest issue

 

 

I blame the new math.  In what universe is 56.77% equal to three to one? We're 10th highest in the league in run percentage.

[Billever76]

4 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I blame the new math.  In what universe is 56.77% equal to three to one? We're 10th highest in the league in run percentage.

Have you seen some games?...we ran it i think like 17 times this past game...of those runs like 4 of those were allen scrambles....so we ran the ball with our rbs like 13 times yet passed it 41 times...whats the math on that?

7 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I blame the new math.  In what universe is 56.77% equal to three to one? We're 10th highest in the league in run percentage.

What was our run to pass ratio against philly with 45mph winds?...what was our run to pass against the pats?...in all our losses dabol has abandoned the run..its facts..now go draw up them pass to run in our losses and get back to me...i wouldnt count allen scrambles as those were mostly designed passes besides a few designed runs....we got our asses kicked everytime dabol has abandoned the run....now we can even argue had he ran yesterday more and against the pats we are sitting at 8-1 now and leading the division

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

And wouldn't that be a shame IF Allen is the problem.

 

People blamed his conservatism in year one on the fact that he didn't trust the QB(Taylor). What if that's still the case?

 

He IS a conservative coach by nature; I think that's pretty evident. But I also believe he knew full well going for it on 4th and 4 was the right decision. I "believe" he didn't want Allen to fail and face the heat. I think he made the decision to own the heat. That's an opinion, not a fact. 

 

I'll tell you this; now that McDermott is facing the heat, he's gonna let Allen sink or swim the next time a similar situation arises. He's not gonna continue to take the fall because he has his own ego(we all do).

 

I actually LIKE McDermott, which seems to be the contrarian view these days. Yes, he's conservative, but he's the best HC the Bills have had in a while and he's proven he can get max wins from the roster provided. Maybe he's not a great HC. Maybe he's too conservative. We just don't know because he hasn't had enough time.

 

But I will say that BEANE chose Allen. And what I see happening going forward IF Allen doesn't improve is McDermott taking the fall and Beane getting the chance to choose another HC. Again, completely unfair if the QB is the problem. 

 

LSHMEAB, did you watch McDermott's presser?  I think he genuinely believed, probably against any analytics, that the decision to kick the FG was the correct one.

I could be mistaken, but that's the distinct impression I got from watching him talk about it.  But I think he'll revisit the whole sequence of events in his CI-quest, and make a different decision not because he has an ego and wants Allen to take the fall, but because further review shows it to be the higher probability choice.

 

I don't believe that Beane chose Allen.  I think Beane has made it clear he's a bit of an old-school "eyeball" scout at heart, but I think it was very much a group decision, everyone on board that they wanted to get him if they could.  It is possible that Darnold may have been their first choice, but once he was off the menu, Allen it was.

[DuckyBoys]

30 minutes ago, DRA3196 said:

You make several great points. I have noticed JA playing timid since the 3 int game against NE. He has looked slow to react and to me he looks like he is over processing what he is seeing on the field. Not how I want the leader of the offense to function. I also agree lets open it up. This year IS about his development. The problem is our soft schedule. Although it appears we are competitive we are clearly not dominating an inferior opponent, but just barely outscoring them. I think McDermott and Daboll are trying to protect Allen in hopes of winning now. Thus slowing his development. In addition I also believe that offensively, by leaning on our running game we can take the pressure off of Josh and not only be competitive but establish consistency and an offensive identity giving Josh time to figure things out. 

I'm sure they beat avoiding throwing interceptions into his head to the point he is not trusting what he sees the first time.  Not only does he seem timid he also looks frustrated.   I'd love to see him drop three steps and just trust the window will be there and fire it in more. 

 

I worry he might follow how things went with Tyrod  Not saying Taylor was a passing machine but the first season he was willing to at least throw  deep along the boundaries.  The next season all those boundary balls were always too long or out of bounds/too close to the sideline.  Sound familiar?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He's always fumbled.

 

Huh.  How many fumbles at U of Wyoming?

Reedley?

High school?

 

I look forward to education on this point.

[Big Blitz]

15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

LSHMEAB, did you watch McDermott's presser?  I think he genuinely believed, probably against any analytics, that the decision to kick the FG was the correct one.

I could be mistaken, but that's the distinct impression I got from watching him talk about it.  But I think he'll revisit the whole sequence of events in his CI-quest, and make a different decision not because he has an ego and wants Allen to take the fall, but because further review shows it to be the higher probability choice.

 

I don't believe that Beane chose Allen.  I think Beane has made it clear he's a bit of an old-school "eyeball" scout at heart, but I think it was very much a group decision, everyone on board that they wanted to get him if they could.  It is possible that Darnold may have been their first choice, but once he was off the menu, Allen it was.

 

 

This was my concern during the game as it was happening and I depressingly get that impression today to.  

[LSHMEAB]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

LSHMEAB, did you watch McDermott's presser?  I think he genuinely believed, probably against any analytics, that the decision to kick the FG was the correct one.

I could be mistaken, but that's the distinct impression I got from watching him talk about it.

I did not watch the presser(can you blame me?) It's entirely possible my opinion is incorrect. It's an opinion and not a fact. He SEEMED genuinely conflicted in that moment and I BELIEVE(again, an opinion) that he took into account what impact a failed conversion there would have on Allen's rep/ego/media heat. It's understandable in the sense that Allen's development is so crucial to the franchise's short(yes short) term success. But the Bills are in the middle of a playoff run. I don't remember the sequence of events, but it WAS fourth down. I get it; the offense wasn't playing with urgency. But they still played themselves into a 4th down.

 

We'll see what happens going forward and your take is probably more rational. I'm going purely by gut and McDermott's "demeanor," which is as far as it gets from the scientific method.

 

There are a bunch of people culpable for that POORLY executed final drive so there's naturally going to be various takes. Either way, it was unacceptable and I'm really sick of watching the offense not score POINTS. Very disappointing performance yesterday all around, so many of us are "in our feelings" right now.

[Gugny]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Huh.  How many fumbles at U of Wyoming?

Reedley?

High school?

 

I look forward to education on this point.

 

13 fumbles (7 lost) in 27 games at Wyoming.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said:

I did not watch the presser(can you blame me?) It's entirely possible my opinion is incorrect. It's an opinion and not a fact. He SEEMED genuinely conflicted in that moment and I BELIEVE(again, an opinion) that he took into account what impact a failed conversion there would have on Allen's rep/ego/media heat. It's understandable in the sense that Allen's development is so crucial to the franchise's short(yes short) term success. But the Bills are in the middle of a playoff run. I don't remember the sequence of events, but it WAS fourth down. I get it; the offense wasn't playing with urgency. But they still played themselves into a 4th down.

 

We'll see what happens going forward and your take is probably more rational. I'm going purely by gut and McDermott's "demeanor," which is as far as it gets from the scientific method.

 

There are a bunch of people culpable for that POORLY executed final drive so there's naturally going to be various takes. Either way, it was unacceptable and I'm really sick of watching the offense not score POINTS. Very disappointing performance yesterday all around, so many of us are "in our feelings" right now.

 

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but I think it's a big stretch to believe that a player's reputation even enters an NFL HC's mind at such a time, including McDermott.

 

If he seemed conflicted, it may have been because his analytics were telling him one thing based upon Haushka's pre-game kicks and recent >50 FG failures, but his personal faith in Haushka and personal beliefs about OT "giving the team a chance to win" were in conflict

[Buffalo_Stampede]

15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Huh.  How many fumbles at U of Wyoming?

Reedley?

High school?

 

I look forward to education on this point.

8 in 11 starts as a rookie. 

11 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

13 fumbles (7 lost) in 27 games at Wyoming.

Thank you for the stat. I was saying he fumbled as a rookie also. So it seems he fumbled in college as well.

[Gugny]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

8 in 11 starts as a rookie. 

Thank you for the stat. I was saying he fumbled as a rookie also. So it seems he fumbled in college as well.

 

He also ran a lot in college.

[LABILLBACKER]

12 hours ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

Your probably right. The coaches are brain washing him to play conservatively and protect the football so he is becoming scared to throw interceptions on the deep ball.

They're turning him into Alex Smith before our very eyes.

[Locomark]

12 hours ago, HeHateMe said:

 

Could of got a prototype WR1 in the 2nd round this year... but .... 

No instead we opted for a part time Mediocre OL player. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

8 in 11 starts as a rookie. 

Thank you for the stat. I was saying he fumbled as a rookie also. So it seems he fumbled in college as well.

 

You said "but he's always fumbled".  So you must have the data. 

 

High school? 

Reedley college? 

 

Also, can you share how many of those rookie 8 in 11 starts were lost?

 

Thank you so much!

 

 

 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

11 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

They're turning him into Alex Smith before our very eyes.

 

You wish

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You said "but he's always fumbled".  So you must have the data. 

 

High school? 

Reedley college? 

 

Also, can you share how many of those rookie 8 in 11 starts were lost?

 

Thank you so much!

 

 

 

How many were lost fumbles? You want to know how many came when the temperature was below 60 degrees also?

 

I always love this part of being a Bills fan. Young QB isn't good enough and Bills fans argue why that is.

 

I would love to blame everyone else for Josh Allen's subpar play but I can't. 

[JTown]

11 hours ago, CheshireCT said:

Being an NFL Quarterback is DEMANDING to say the last. The amount of responsibility for such a young guy to carry is really enormous. They are working on his game, it’s a process. The base game of any NFL quarterback has to be the short routes, because moving the chains is the most important thing. They’re focused on getting him to do this and make good decisions. Josh Allen seems to be a mentally strong guy for his age, and I think I’ll get through that. He has all the power necessary to throw the deep ball, so I’m not worried about that....it will come back in time.

 

As for the fumbles? It’s simple, this is a case of teams having more tape on a guy they didn’t have before and studying his weaknesses. This happens to every young QB in their early development - the weaknesses get exposed and then they have to fix the problems.

My question for you then is why do we repeatedly see Josh Allen throwing deep on 3 or 4th down if as you say they are coaching him on the short game.

Makes no sense to me.

Please  explain. 

[DRA3196]

27 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

I'm sure they beat avoiding throwing interceptions into his head to the point he is not trusting what he sees the first time.  Not only does he seem timid he also looks frustrated.   I'd love to see him drop three steps and just trust the window will be there and fire it in more. 

 

I worry he might follow how things went with Tyrod  Not saying Taylor was a passing machine but the first season he was willing to at least throw  deep along the boundaries.  The next season all those boundary balls were always too long or out of bounds/too close to the sideline.  Sound familiar?

Very familiar, I have no doubt that is what he has been told. It took me a while to figure out what was wrong with his body language, then I heard comparisons to TT, saw Allen double clutch on passes throwing behind too many receivers, hesitating before he runs, then it just smacked me in the face that he was playing tentative. He isn't playing the game the way he knows how to play the way he wants to play. It doesn't look like he is playing with any confidence and he doesn't sound like it either. I believe in Allen and think he can take us where we want to go. But not like this. They have to quit babying him, let him take his lumps and do what he was brought here to do. We don't need a "game manager", we need a playmaker.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

How many were lost fumbles? You want to know how many came when the temperature was below 60 degrees also?

 

I always love this part of being a Bills fan. Young QB isn't good enough and Bills fans argue why that is.

 

I would love to blame everyone else for Josh Allen's subpar play but I can't. 

 

If you know that Josh Allen has always fumbled, you can surely provide the data to back up that statement.

I await learning about it.

 

Otherwise, you could just admit that you don't know, and were simply indulging in a spot of exaggeration.

 

No need to blame anyone else or discuss temperature, but I'm glad you love being a Bills fan.

 

Thanks

[Chill]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He's always fumbled.

That one at the goal line where Feliciono had to dive at was bad.
 

Would’ve cost us the game.

 

Then he actually did cost us the game... panicking like a child. 

 

He has to be leading the league  in lazy mistakes, Like fumbling. He has to be smarter and make a better effort. 
 

I hate to say it but complacency is sinking in, that’s on the leaders. 

 

I am concerned about Josh’s ability to be our franchise qb. 
 

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Chill

[Playoffs?]

I can’t stand the coaching down of McD and especially Daboll. That said, I don’t believe they’re the reason Allen can’t hit a deep pass. Allen has had SO many opportunities to hit a wide open receiver, and he has either grossly under thrown or overthrown them. 

 

Again, our coaches are to blame... but I am concerned about Josh’s ability to be franchise QB.  

[Not at the table Karlos]

13 hours ago, Allen2Moulds said:

Sorry if someone already made this point, but I'm at work and didn't have time to read through every post. 

 

Josh Allen is playing mistake free the last few games (bravo), but it's also severely hindering him.  The clear reason for not being able to connect on a deep ball, is his fear of throwing an interception.  As a result, the ball always ends up in no man's land.  Not only can it not be picked, but also has no chance of our guys coming down with it.  I mean, he hasn't even been close.  It's grossly overthrown every-time.  I've felt this way for weeks, but he just confirmed it in his post game presser.  They asked him if he can pin-point the reason, for not being able to hit the deep ball, and he just said, I don't know, followed by.......I don't know if I'm super anxious about under-throwing it, and getting an interception. The coaches have him playing scared. This is a major detriment to his development. News flash.....we are not winning the Super Bowl this year, but we have this special talent, that we need to develop. Peyton threw 33 picks his rookie year.  I'm sick of this ultra conservative approach.  The only we we are beating the better teams in this league, is if Josh plays up to his potential, and that's not happening with the leash that they have on him.  Let him go, and win or lose, live with the results.  We'll be better in the long run for it.

He wasn’t scared to throw picks in the first few games where was the deep ball then. He also struggled to hit them in camp.

 

He wasn’t very good at throwing the 9 route last year either. Most of the completed deep balls were routes that the wr was running more horizontal than vertical. Seems like we’re not calling those routes this year for whatever reason. 

 

I do agree that the coaching staff is making him play scared and think too much. 

[34-78-83]

13 hours ago, StHustle said:

Playing like Tyrod Taylor 2.0 right now

Nope, not close.

Allen connects on many , MANY types of passes that Tyrod wouldn't dream of releasing.

[bills11]

14 hours ago, Allen2Moulds said:

Sorry if someone already made this point, but I'm at work and didn't have time to read through every post. 

 

Josh Allen is playing mistake free the last few games (bravo), but it's also severely hindering him.  The clear reason for not being able to connect on a deep ball, is his fear of throwing an interception.  As a result, the ball always ends up in no man's land.  Not only can it not be picked, but also has no chance of our guys coming down with it.  I mean, he hasn't even been close.  It's grossly overthrown every-time.  I've felt this way for weeks, but he just confirmed it in his post game presser.  They asked him if he can pin-point the reason, for not being able to hit the deep ball, and he just said, I don't know, followed by.......I don't know if I'm super anxious about under-throwing it, and getting an interception. The coaches have him playing scared. This is a major detriment to his development. News flash.....we are not winning the Super Bowl this year, but we have this special talent, that we need to develop. Peyton threw 33 picks his rookie year.  I'm sick of this ultra conservative approach.  The only we we are beating the better teams in this league, is if Josh plays up to his potential, and that's not happening with the leash that they have on him.  Let him go, and win or lose, live with the results.  We'll be better in the long run for it.

Precisely 

[reddogblitz]

3 hours ago, Playoffs? said:

I can’t stand the coaching down of McD and especially Daboll. That said, I don’t believe they’re the reason Allen can’t hit a deep pass. Allen has had SO many opportunities to hit a wide open receiver, and he has either grossly under thrown or overthrown them. 

 

Again, our coaches are to blame... but I am concerned about Josh’s ability to be franchise QB.  

 

How are the coaches to blame for Josh under throwing a guy with the wind vs Eagles and then badly over throwing 3 guys wide open deep vs Clowns?  Looks to me like the Coach put him in a position to succeed and Josh just blew it.  Face it.  He's just not good at throwing the long ball.

[CheshireCT]

6 hours ago, JTown said:

My question for you then is why do we repeatedly see Josh Allen throwing deep on 3 or 4th down if as you say they are coaching him on the short game.

Makes no sense to me.

Please  explain. 

definitely no explanation for that. I was just as baffled as you in those instances. How many times has that happened? Anyone count?

[klos63]

10 hours ago, uticaclub said:

McDermotts most successful offense game was when Barkley waxed the Jets

So one good game in about 6 years of being on a roster... against one of the worst teams in the league.

[Don Otreply]

21 hours ago, bmur66 said:

Do we have a receiver that you can throw a 50/50 ball to with a high probability he will make the catch?

Only one, his name is Duke Williams...

 

Go Bills!!!

[bmur66]

DK Metcalf sure looked pretty good last night. Just saying

[Brand J]

Most of us were skeptical about an underperforming Mountain West QB becoming a franchise QB at the most difficult level of football. Every stat that was pulled suggested he‘d be an NFL bust, I remember one had the likelihood at 81%! While I wouldn’t call him a bust, I don’t think he’ll ever be anything more than an average or slightly above average QB. All the traits required to be an elite signal caller - timing, touch, anticipation, accuracy, field vision - he struggles at every single one. Asking and/or expecting him to make giant leaps of improvement in those areas is probably unfair to him. He is what he is and what he is isn’t good enough.

[uticaclub]

19 minutes ago, klos63 said:

So one good game in about 6 years of being on a roster... against one of the worst teams in the league.

He’s played in less games than Allen, maybe he needs time to develop