Postgame: Dolphins 21 at Bills 31

[CincyBillsFan]

Some observations from today's win:

 

*  This might be a special team and here's why we survived a bad effort from our #1 strength the defense AND we survived a full dose of FITZMAGIC.  Over the years FITZMAGIC can QB a bad team to an improbable win over a good team.  We've seen it before and it's why a lot of us were nervous about this game. 

 

*  Past Bills teams ABSOLUTELY would have lost this game and seen their 4 - 1 start deteriorate into a 7 - 9 finish.  Past Bills teams would not have made that INT at the 2. And if they had they would NOT have driven 98 yards for the go ahead TD.  Does Tyrod or EJ or even Orton take us 98 yards to the go ahead score?  You know they don't.  This QB & this team are different.

 

*  Allen is getting closer on the long balls.  The 1st miss was by 5 yards but the 2nd miss was by only a yard.  When he zeros in on those throws he'll start hitting them.

 

*  People expected to much from Singleterry & Kroft.  Coming back from injury after missing a  substantial amount of time was likely to have them rusty.  Look for BOTH players to step up next week.

 

*  At some point Allen's 4th quarter play will translate for an entire game.  His 4th quarter numbers this year are off the charts.  When you listen to the great coaches talk they ALL say how important it is for a QB to be clutch in the 4th quarter.  Everything else will come in time but if he's not clutch in the 4th he may never be clutch. 

 

*  One more thing, 300 yard games are nothing compared to playing well in the 4th quarter when the game is on the line.  Plenty of 300 yard QB's lose the game.  Very few lose games when they play well in close contests in the 4th. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

We need another WR.  Our passing game is brutal 

 

We need to get more weapons, particularly of the game breaking variety, on offense.  A true #1 WR is a must.  I think out stable of TE's will develop into big play makers though they aren't there yet.  We also need a big play RB.  Gore is a HOF warrior but he's not the kind of RB that can over a game.  Singleterry may be that guy but right now he isn't. 

 

The bottom line IMO is that the offense is probably doing the best it can and if it can limit TO's and be more consistent we're a 10/11 win team this season.  I also think there's an outside chance it could become more explosive with the return of Foster and a more rapid development of the TE's & Singleterry.

 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

30 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

I asked if a top 5 defense had ever had a bad game.  That is a simple question.   You answered it with a question that added in parameters.  

 

Your effort to define the discussion in a negative way is completely dishonest as usual.  I asked if a top 5 defense had ever had a bad game.  Your response, knowing of course that top 5 defenses have indeed had bad games, was an effort to say it was impossible for a top 5 defense to have a game as bad as the Bills had today.  That's a joke so I decided not to look up every box score in NFL history.

 

 

That's not what the discussion was about when you stumbled in.

 

This is what was being discussed:

 

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Bills D looked rough.  Only D to give up over 20 points to Miami.  Other than Deadskins, the Bills are the only team they could get within 20 points of.

 

33+ minutes TOP.  24 1st downs.  381 total yards. 21 points---All season highs for the Fins....against the #3 D in the NFL.

 

2 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Has any top 5 defense ever had a bad game?

 

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Top 3 D vs a winless team the worst Offense in the NFL? 

 

When did that happen?

 

2 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Supposedly Bills at Vikings.  Be sure to add more weird parameters to maintain negativity.

 

There were no weird parameters: we were discussing a top 3 D allowing the worst (historically bad in fact) Offense in the NFL to have it's best performance.  We weren't discussing whether "top 5 Defenses ever have a bad game": (they sure do).  We were talking specifically about this type of performance. 

 

But, even if we accept your question (Has any top 5 defense ever had a bad game?) you answer it with this bizarre post:

 

1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

9 years ago your boys got spanked at home by a bad Brown's team.

 

 

Uhhhh what?  Horrible D lost to a mediocre Offense.  Total non sequitur.

 

My question was simple,.  You changed the question and then answered with a post that answered nothing.

 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

7 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

We need another WR.  Our passing game is brutal 

I always think that at first but then I think about what a really good TE could mean to this offense. The Bills in their entire history have never had a really really good TE. Can you imagine a guy like Kittle or Kelcey or Ertz in this offense? That’s what we really need. Another guy in the passing game, but a Tight End that can be a matchup nightmare between the hash marks. I think Jon Brown might be the best outside WR the bills have had since Moulds and Beasley is good as well. Bring in a real pass catching TE somehow 

[HappyDays]

17 minutes ago, Mango said:

My take at the start of the season is that this team is an 8-10 win team.

 

By NFL standards that's a huge amount of leeway you've given yourself. Before the season I said 9-7. Now I think 10-6.

[BADOLBILZ]

10 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

We need another WR.  Our passing game is brutal 

 

6 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Wouldn’t hate another WR. However, there are generally open guys on most plays. Allen needs to find them more quickly and deliver the ball. Needs to get better at dealing with the blitz in particular. 

 

 

Generally open guys on most plays?   Not by normal NFL standards.   This WR corps is poor.   John Brown and a bunch of JAG's.   They desperately need a playmaker that their erratic young QB can ALSO throw a contested ball to and win from time to time.    The need to "gadget"  their way to 12 play drives to score a TD is not going to work in the playoffs and that's what they need to be thinking about.   

[Boatdrinks]

3 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I always think that at first but then I think about what a really good TE could mean to this offense. The Bills in their entire history have never had a really really good TE. Can you imagine a guy like Kittle or Kelcey or Ertz in this offense? That’s what we really need. Another guy in the passing game, but a Tight End that can be a matchup nightmare between the hash marks. I think Jon Brown might be the best outside WR the bills have had since Moulds and Beasley is good as well. Bring in a real pass catching TE somehow 

They’re hoping Knox becomes on of those guys. It’s early. An established good TE probably wouldn’t be available in a trade, and would cost a pretty good pick if they were. Depends on the deal 

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

Generally open guys on most plays?   Not by normal NFL standards.   This WR corps is poor.   John Brown and a bunch of JAG's.   They desperately need a playmaker that their erratic young QB can ALSO throw a contested ball to and win from time to time.    The need to "gadget"  their way to 12 play drives to score a TD is not going to work in the playoffs and that's what they need to be thinking about.   

It’s not a very good corps, and I think they should be a player in the trade market. Allen can still do better than he has though. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

 

 

 

 

[Mango]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

By NFL standards that's a huge amount of leeway you've given yourself. Before the season I said 9-7. Now I think 10-6.

 

That’s fair. Probably closer to 9 or 10 win team. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

So, color me impressed by the Dolphins. They don’t have the talent and I am sure they were triply amped up to play a 4-1 Bills team, but some real positives they can build on:

 

1) they played very physically, on both sides of the ball; I thought their O-line did a really

nice job.

 

2) they seem to be very well-coached and played hard. It was crazy seeing the stat how they are second least penalized team in the league. Usually there is a correlation between being a bad team and lots of penalties. Apparently, Flores has them fairly well-disciplined. Plus, have to give him (and Crossman!!) credit on that fake FG. Very well-executed.

 

3) they seem to have a few pretty good skill players to build around. I thought that running back (Ballage?) looked very shifty, and Gilesci was outstanding out there. They obviously need a QB, but Fitz is serviceable and played well.

[CaptnCoke11]

43 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

Needs to put a little more air under the ball, too much rocket, allow receiver to adjust.

He throws it plenty high that’s not the issue.  He’s just throwing it too far 

[dubs]

15 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

By NFL standards that's a huge amount of leeway you've given yourself. Before the season I said 9-7. Now I think 10-6.

hah. So true. 
 

I was predicting between 6 and 12 wins this year. Feeling good about that prediction still, imma stick with it. 
 

 

[Beast]

We really missed Matt Milano today.

[BADOLBILZ]

11 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

 

It’s not a very good corps, and I think they should be a player in the trade market. Allen can still do better than he has though. 

 

 

No doubt Allen can do better..........he really struggled in the first half.    But from my perspective above on the 50 yard line it's been pretty concerning how little separation this WR corps gets and how relatively small they are as targets.   They really have a lot on the inexperienced Allen's shoulders running a complicated offense let alone doing it without a stud WR.  5 years from now he might not need a true stud #1..........but right now it would be by far the best thing this team could do for itself.

[4merper4mer]

14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

That's not what the discussion was about when you stumbled in.

 

This is what was being discussed:

 

 

 

 

 

There were no weird parameters: we were discussing a top 3 D allowing the worst (historically bad in fact) Offense in the NFL to have it's best performance.  We weren't discussing whether "top 5 Defenses ever have a bad game": (they sure do).  We were talking specifically about this type of performance. 

 

But, even if we accept your question (Has any top 5 defense ever had a bad game?) you answer it with this bizarre post:

 

 

 

Uhhhh what?  Horrible D lost to a mediocre Offense.  Total non sequitur.

 

My question was simple,.  You changed the question and then answered with a post that answered nothing.

 

Please be sure to not be specific about your original point so that it can't be refuted.  It seemed you were saying that one bad game showed more than 5 good games.  But of course that couldn't be it.   I'm not sure what you're saying but I'm sure you're right.

 

The Dolphins had three good drives today.  Two resulted in TDs and one they botched, creating a pick on what should have been a score.  They added a garbage time drive for another TD.  That isn't the best look for the Bills D but it is hardly some sort of definition of the season.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[ColoradoBills]

4 hours ago, Bmbchiefs66 said:

Colts 2nd best team.in afc and thats not debatable

 

You sir are the best Pat's* troll this board has seen in some time.  Keep it up.

 

4 hours ago, Seven-N-Nine said:

That is true, as long as they can do it against the better teams...

 

Many believe you are a troll from other teams.  I do not believe it.  You're nothing more than a disgruntled Bills fan.

 

15 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

Generally open guys on most plays?   Not by normal NFL standards.   This WR corps is poor.   John Brown and a bunch of JAG's.   They desperately need a playmaker that their erratic young QB can ALSO throw a contested ball to and win from time to time.    The need to "gadget"  their way to 12 play drives to score a TD is not going to work in the playoffs and that's what they need to be thinking about.   

 

I'm sorry for you that the Bills won today. 

[CincyBillsFan]

9 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

So, color me impressed by the Dolphins. They don’t have the talent and I am sure they were triply amped up to play a 4-1 Bills team, but some real positives they can build on:

 

1) they played very physically, on both sides of the ball; I thought their O-line did a really

nice job.

 

2) they seem to be very well-coached and played hard. It was crazy seeing the stat how they are second least penalized team in the league. Usually there is a correlation between being a bad team and lots of penalties. Apparently, Flores has them fairly well-disciplined. Plus, have to give him (and Crossman!!) credit on that fake FG. Very well-executed.

 

3) they seem to have a few pretty good skill players to build around. I thought that running back (Ballage?) looked very shifty, and Gilesci was outstanding out there. They obviously need a QB, but Fitz is serviceable and played well.

 

And the Dolphins showed life in an early season game against Dallas.  In that game, played at Dallas and with Rosen at QB, Miami was only down 10 - 6 at half. 

 

I think today we got the best game Miami can play.  And with Fitz at the helm and playing well, we were in real danger of getting upset.  That we didn't is impressive IMO.   A good team would find a way to win this game no matter how poorly they played and no matter how well Miami played.  And we won so I'm believing we are a good team.

 

 

[stuvian]

We're a little over exuberant for having to come from behind against a winless team for a victory 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

And the Dolphins showed life in an early season game against Dallas.  In that game, played at Dallas and with Rosen at QB, Miami was only down 10 - 6 at half. 

 

I think today we got the best game Miami can play.  And with Fitz at the helm and playing well, we were in real danger of getting upset.  That we didn't is impressive IMO.   A good team would find a way to win this game no matter how poorly they played and no matter how well Miami played.  And we won so I'm believing we are a good team.

 

 

well said. 

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, stuvian said:

We're a little over exuberant for having to come from behind against a winless team for a victory 

 

I'm not.  San Francisco 9 - Washington  0. 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, stuvian said:

We're a little over exuberant for having to come from behind against a winless team for a victory 

 

We overcame a poor start. In fact we've shown we can recover from poor play several times this year. The ability to come back is more important than the ability to dominate.

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Please be sure to not be specific about your original point so that it can't be refuted.  It seemed you were saying that one bad game showed more than 5 good games.  But of course that couldn't be it.   I'm not sure what you're saying but I'm sure you're right.

 

The Dolphins had three good drives today.  Two resulted in TDs and one they botched, creating a pick on what should have been a score.  They added a garbage time drive for another TD.  That isn't the best look for the Bills D but it is hardly some sort of definition of the season.

 

No.  I could not have been more specific that I was referring only to this game. I quoted my "original point".   Garbage time??  That TD pout them within a FG of tying and an onside kick coming up and over 2 minutes to play!   I'm wasting my time.

[Boatdrinks]

Love the 5-1 record. In no way do I think this Bills team is a finished product yet. Still a few positional needs and a young, still rough around the edges QB. 

[stuvian]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

We overcame a poor start. In fact we've shown we can recover from poor play several times this year. The ability to come back is more important than the ability to dominate.

I like the emotional resilience. We aren't playing scared like we did through the decade of fail. It just feels like people are making Superbowl reservations after coming from behind vs a winless team led by one of our QB rejects 

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, stuvian said:

I like the emotional resilience. We aren't playing scared like we did through the decade of fail. It just feels like people are making Superbowl reservations after coming from behind vs a winless team led by one of our QB rejects 

Has anyone on this board made claims to the Super Bowl at this point ? I haven’t seen it. Pretty generally accepted that a WC spot is the Bills most likely way into the playoffs and beating NE would probably be required to advance that far. 

[4merper4mer]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

No.  I could not have been more specific that I was referring only to this game. I quoted my "original point".   Garbage time??  That TD pout them within a FG of tying and an onside kick coming up and over 2 minutes to play!   I'm wasting my time.

 

On your first point I agree that we were not a top 5 defense this week.  

 

On the second:

The entire time they had the ball all the Bills needed to have happen was for the clock to get under 2 minutes to mean recovering an onside kick sealed the game.  The Bills achieved getting the click under 2 min.  There were not over 2 minutes to play.  Miami scored on a fluke play after converting a 4th on another fluke play.  It was garbage time.

 

 

[Augie]

14 minutes ago, stuvian said:

We're a little over exuberant for having to come from behind against a winless team for a victory 

 

Who is over exuberant? I’m just glad we won a game against an NFL team. I’m happy we are 5-1. The Patriots may have a better margin of victory, but we are the best team they played and that was close. We just might have won if not for a dirty head shot to Josh. It’s all about the wins and losses. We WON today. 

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

 

On your first point I agree that we were not a top 5 defense this week.  

 

On the second:

The entire time they had the ball all the Bills needed to have happen was for the clock to get under 2 minutes to mean recovering an onside kick sealed the game.  The Bills achieved getting the click under 2 min.  There were not over 2 minutes to play.  Miami scored on a fluke play after converting a 4th on another fluke play.  It was garbage time.

 

 

If the Fins recover the onsides kick they are driving for the tie or win.  That’s not garbage time. Hyde’s TD return was garbage time, however

[y2zipper]

The onside kick is a 0 percent play in 2019 so I lean that the drive with the Fitz rushing TD was garbage time and the Bills won when they got up by ten.

 

I think the offense made progress in that we saw 3 FG possessions where before we would see a turnover or a mistake on one of those drives before but also had the 90 yard drove after the interception and scored off the fumble. The offensive game plan is taking what the defense gives and taking some deep shots. The only drive I didn't like the playcalls was the one with 3 straight runs at the 2 minute warning.

 

The defense laid an egg early but made some timely turnovers to seal the game.

[JoPar_v2]

21 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

No doubt Allen can do better..........he really struggled in the first half.    But from my perspective above on the 50 yard line it's been pretty concerning how little separation this WR corps gets and how relatively small they are as targets.   They really have a lot on the inexperienced Allen's shoulders running a complicated offense let alone doing it without a stud WR.  5 years from now he might not need a true stud #1..........but right now it would be by far the best thing this team could do for itself.

Pfff. Excuses. WRs have been getting open regularly and repeatedly. A WR had FIVE YARDS of separation today and Allen overthrew him by another five. This idea that we’re running with XFL receivers and they suck needs to get put to bed. It’s BS. Josh is raw. He sucks at making reads. He can’t throw a deep ball to save his mother. Sick of people like you making excuses for this kid. He’ll get better, I am sure. He doesn’t need the constant scapegoating. Watch the f-ing tape

[4merper4mer]

12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

If the Fins recover the onsides kick they are driving for the tie or win.  That’s not garbage time. Hyde’s TD return was garbage time, however

Hyde's TD was indeed garbage time.

 

Up until the onside kick the Bills covered, onside kicks had been recovered at a 0% clip in the NFL this year.  There was one later in the day when the receiving team made an egregious error.  Danny Crossman is the Dolphins special teams coach.  Garbage time.

 

Are you maintaining the drive the Dolphins put together at the end didn't have flukes?  Are you saying the Bills didn't at least get it to the point where kneel downs would have finished things?  Yes I could have done without Fitz's miracle escape and run but it happened.

Edited October 21, 2019 by 4merper4mer

[Rocket94]

19 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Love the 5-1 record. In no way do I think this Bills team is a finished product yet. Still a few positional needs and a young, still rough around the edges QB. 

The Bills are a little ahead of schedule and they will make the playoffs, but they are a more difficult team to diagnose than usual. I have a feeling that the remainder of their games are going to be battles...what we have been seeing is what we are going to get.

[BillsVet]

33 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

They really have a lot on the inexperienced Allen's shoulders running a complicated offense let alone doing it without a stud WR.  5 years from now he might not need a true stud #1..........but right now it would be by far the best thing this team could do for itself.

 

When does McD step in and demand simplicity from his OC for a QB who clearly is struggling?  At which point does McD recognize that he and the GM's attempts to rebuild an offense in one (!) off-season is at best providing middling results?

 

McD's first comments this past off-season at the combine were presumably an answer to the most effective criticism of his tenure:  the offense.  McCoach proceeded to say they needed to score 21 points per, which through 6 games they've done three times against a weak schedule.  

 

The HC has no more clue on offense than did Chan Gailey on defense.  They're coordinators masquerading as HC's and do not take a total view of team building, hence the other side of the ball not progressing much from 2 seasons ago.  

[Rocket94]

The Bills are not a finished product, yet we are watching them try to become one. They continue to win anyway. It is obvious that with a few reinforcements, they will be a more complete team with the ability to close out other teams.

[Augie]

41 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

I think he’s hoping to put together a full four quarters! 

[John from Riverside]

5 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

62%, 2TD 0 INT

 

Yeah, that's awful. What the hell do you people watch?

 

I mean it really is insane

because josh didn’t throw 4 tds to no interceptions. For 300 yards in a win some are sad

 

this team is going to the playoffs

[Mr. WEO]

21 minutes ago, y2zipper said:

The onside kick is a 0 percent play in 2019 so I lean that the drive with the Fitz rushing TD was garbage time and the Bills won when they got up by ten.

 

I think the offense made progress in that we saw 3 FG possessions where before we would see a turnover or a mistake on one of those drives before but also had the 90 yard drove after the interception and scored off the fumble. The offensive game plan is taking what the defense gives and taking some deep shots. The only drive I didn't like the playcalls was the one with 3 straight runs at the 2 minute warning.

 

The defense laid an egg early but made some timely turnovers to seal the game.

 

A TD  to get within 3 points of a tie and looking at an onside kick has now been redefined right here at TSW as "garbage time TD".  Holy smokes.

 

I love this place!

Edited October 21, 2019 by Mr. WEO

[Figster]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Why is everything 100% suck or awesome? Allen wasn't perfect today. He made bad throws. But there was plenty of bad to go around. Bottom line, when he needed to go 98 yards to take a lead he did it.

Myself personally PTR, I'm soaking up every minute of the development of one Mr Josh Allen and one mans trash is another mans treasure. Wanting A J Green in a Bills uni just kinda goes with the territory.

 

In the best Stevie Johnson imitation I can muster,

 

Why so serious...

[Teddy KGB]

1 hour ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

We need another WR.  Our passing game is brutal 

 

Sanders or Green asap.    Get on the phone Beane 

[IDBillzFan]

41 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

And the Dolphins showed life in an early season game against Dallas.  In that game, played at Dallas and with Rosen at QB, Miami was only down 10 - 6 at half. 

 

I think today we got the best game Miami can play.  And with Fitz at the helm and playing well, we were in real danger of getting upset.  That we didn't is impressive IMO.   A good team would find a way to win this game no matter how poorly they played and no matter how well Miami played.  And we won so I'm believing we are a good team.

 

 

 

I'll never understand why this simple truth is lost on some fans.

 

I suspect if you find fans who don't understand this, you'll find them in a room with fans who like to predict failure simply because it's the easiest thing to predict in the NFL.