BuffaloBaumer Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Maybe I am mis-remembering but wasn't that the only ball he was good at beginning of last year? What the hell happened to it and why is he overthrowing by 5 yards while under-throwing it by a few as well. I have no explanation for this whatsoever but for this offense to click, he REALLY needs to keep teams honest and hit some of these....like how about one? Besides his amazing runs and the the throw he makes on the run from time to time, what throw can he actually make now? This is not to bash the guy at all, I seriously want to know where that long-ball went.... 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Just now, BuffaloBaumer said: Maybe I am mis-remembering but wasn't that the only ball he was good at beginning of last year? What the hell happened to it and why is he overthrowing by 5 yards while under-throwing it by a few as well. I have no explanation for this whatsoever but for this offense to click, he REALLY needs to keep teams honest and hit some of these....like how about one? Besides his amazing runs and the the throw he makes on the run from time to time, what throw can he actually make now? This is not to bash the guy at all, I seriously want to know where that long-ball went.... Mechanics 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Just now, BuffaloBaumer said: Maybe I am mis-remembering but wasn't that the only ball he was good at beginning of last year? What the hell happened to it and why is he overthrowing by 5 yards while under-throwing it by a few as well. I have no explanation for this whatsoever but for this offense to click, he REALLY needs to keep teams honest and hit some of these....like how about one? Besides his amazing runs and the the throw he makes on the run from time to time, what throw can he actually make now? This is not to bash the guy at all, I seriously want to know where that long-ball went.... Definitely been thinking the same thing. It seemed like he was stepping into the long throws better last year. I've noticed, especially against the Patriots he was drifting or running backwards while throwing the more low pct throws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Didnt seem to have a problem with it last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Watching his throws he doesn't seem to be stepping into them like before. He is just kind of flinging them out there using all arm. I think once he is coached up on this or realizes it himself things will change. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jletha Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) I think youre misremembering honestly. What deep ball did he ever hit on last year except for the Foster one against the Jags (which was still kind of a crossing route). The only deep ball I can remember hit completing was to Zay against the Chargers but that was 5-10 yards under thrown still. IMO he has never been good at deep balls, people just want him to be because of his arm. But I could be mis-remembering too. Edited October 2, 2019 by jletha 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 The ball he threw deep to Foster in the Bengals game was right on the money in full stride; just a terrific play by the safety to run across the field and leap up and knock it away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 16 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Mechanics Yep- throwing off your back foot is never wise 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILBillsfan Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Vs the pats his foot work was bad most of the deep throws cam off his back foot. The jones throw right collapsed and he was not able to step into it. The majority of the bad throws in the first half were due to bad footwork 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 21 minutes ago, BuffaloBaumer said: Maybe I am mis-remembering but wasn't that the only ball he was good at beginning of last year? What the hell happened to it and why is he overthrowing by 5 yards while under-throwing it by a few as well. I have no explanation for this whatsoever but for this offense to click, he REALLY needs to keep teams honest and hit some of these....like how about one? Besides his amazing runs and the the throw he makes on the run from time to time, what throw can he actually make now? This is not to bash the guy at all, I seriously want to know where that long-ball went.... i agree. All i got is he spent so much time on the short game that he didn't practice going deep with the WRs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, ILBillsfan said: Vs the pats his foot work was bad most of the deep throws cam off his back foot. The jones throw right collapsed and he was not able to step into it. The majority of the bad throws in the first half were due to bad footwork Yup. Although IMO one of them was intentional. They wanted him to keep backpedaling deep while the Patriots blitzed a few extra rushers and then just lob it deep against single coverage he just overthrew it while backpedaling. He could not have stopped, planted, and then threw even if he wanted to. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBaumer Posted October 2, 2019 Author Share Posted October 2, 2019 I am thinking that he has been throwing so many picks that he is overcompensating while thinking...well I can't throw another pick so if my guy can't get it, nobody will. The problem is that our guy can never get it either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Patriots seemed to play under coverage in man meaning he has to drop it in a bucket and can't throw those deep crossers as bullets. His poor footwork and drifting in the pocket means hes all arm, and drifting is making the throws way more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Part of it is that no one's surprised by it this year. Everyone knows who John Brown and Robert Foster are. That doesn't mean they should stop attempting it. Take shots early and often to keep defenses in check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 28 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said: Yep- throwing off your back foot is never wise did Fouts mention this? i had some music playing during the game. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 33 minutes ago, BuffaloBaumer said: Maybe I am mis-remembering but wasn't that the only ball he was good at beginning of last year? What the hell happened to it and why is he overthrowing by 5 yards while under-throwing it by a few as well. I have no explanation for this whatsoever but for this offense to click, he REALLY needs to keep teams honest and hit some of these....like how about one? Besides his amazing runs and the the throw he makes on the run from time to time, what throw can he actually make now? This is not to bash the guy at all, I seriously want to know where that long-ball went.... I’ve been having the same thoughts. I’ve suspected that they have spent so much time working on, and practicing the shorter throws, and plays that the long game has gone a bit by the wayside. I also suspect that it’s more a question of timing with his receivers than him losing the ability to throw long with accuracy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 43 minutes ago, BuffaloBaumer said: Maybe I am mis-remembering but wasn't that the only ball he was good at beginning of last year? What the hell happened to it and why is he overthrowing by 5 yards while under-throwing it by a few as well. I have no explanation for this whatsoever but for this offense to click, he REALLY needs to keep teams honest and hit some of these....like how about one? Besides his amazing runs and the the throw he makes on the run from time to time, what throw can he actually make now? This is not to bash the guy at all, I seriously want to know where that long-ball went.... I think there are several reasons. Mechanics may be one of them, but the mechanics tend to degrade when he's feeling rushed. Deep throws are easier on those rare occasions when the receiver is wide open. There's a huge window and the receiver can make adjustments without fear of the DB causing problems. When the coverage is tight, I think Josh, like many QBs like to err on the side of caution, putting the ball where, if the receiver can't get it, the defender can't either. The result is an overthrow that nobody can catch. This didn't happen on every throw, but it has happened several times this season. Better pass protection will help, as will more separation by receivers. Of course, Josh needs to make better reads too, as he has not seen open receivers on a number of occasions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Nervous feet. It helps tremendously if you set them before you throw. Also, he appears to have forgotten that throwing off your back foot is not recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franco_92 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 48 minutes ago, jletha said: I think youre misremembering honestly. What deep ball did he ever hit on last year except for the Foster one against the Jags (which was still kind of a crossing route). The only deep ball I can remember hit completing was to Zay against the Chargers but that was 5-10 yards under thrown still. IMO he has never been good at deep balls, people just want him to be because of his arm. But I could be mis-remembering too. Yup, it's never been good, though being o-fer at this point is still mildly surprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 37 minutes ago, row_33 said: did Fouts mention this? i had some music playing during the game. I don’t know- I was at the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) Fans dig the deep ball . Problem is they don't understand how low % the throws are First you need to take chemistry into account... Josh Allen had chemistry with Robert foster deep last season.. foster hasn't been playing much It takes a while to develop deep chemistry and he's still learning it with John Brown and him and Zay cant connect deep Then you have people who think it's a gimme. Like it's a cake throw that is completed routinely... The Bills haven't even given up 1 40+ yarder in 4 games but it's easy? The NFL average for deep balls ( balls over 20 yards is about 35%-40% completion) Last season Allen was ahead of Cam Newton and Joe flacco and just behind Brady and big Ben. Yea Allen is a bit off rn with the deep ball but he is also working out timing kinks with WRs.. believe it or not it is actually pretty hard to hit someone running 20 mph in stride with a football 40 yards downfield with a defense that gets paid too It will come Edited October 2, 2019 by Buffalo716 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBaumer Posted October 2, 2019 Author Share Posted October 2, 2019 It's worth it for PI alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 28 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Fans dig the deep ball . Problem is they don't understand how low % the throws are First you need to take chemistry into account... Josh Allen had chemistry with Robert foster deep last season.. foster hasn't been playing much It takes a while to develop deep chemistry and he's still learning it with John Brown and him and Zay cant connect deep Then you have people who think it's a gimme. Like it's a cake throw that is completed routinely... The Bills haven't even given up 1 40+ yarder in 4 games but it's easy? The NFL average for deep balls ( balls over 20 yards is about 35%-40% completion) Last season Allen was ahead of Cam Newton and Joe flacco and just behind Brady and big Ben. Yea Allen is a bit off rn with the deep ball but he is also working out timing kinks with WRs.. believe it or not it is actually pretty hard to hit someone running 20 mph in stride with a football 40 yards downfield with a defense that gets paid too It will come So if it’s 40% for league average of deep passes, and Allen is less than 40%, does that make him worse than average? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Just now, BringBackOrton said: So if it’s 40% for league average of deep passes, and Allen is less than 40%, does that make him worse than average? Is big Ben? Hell no It's all circumstances as well and they need to be taken into consideration If Allen is completing 29% in year 4-5 that would be troubling.. But he needs to get his timing down. John Brown is the only deep threat out there consistently and you can take that away I would assume his timing would be better week 10 than week 2 and he will start connecting at a higher clip, even if marginally 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Just now, Buffalo716 said: Is big Ben? Hell no It's all circumstances as well and they need to be taken into consideration If Allen is completing 29% in year 4-5 that would be troubling.. But he needs to get his timing down. John Brown is the only deep threat out there consistently and you can take that away I would assume his timing would be better week 10 than week 2 and he will start connecting at a higher clip, even if marginally How many QB’s have new WR’s this year? Does Gardner Minshew or Lamar Jackson have more experience with their WR’s than Allen does? Why do your explanations only apply to Allen and not most QB’s in the NFL? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, jletha said: I think youre misremembering honestly. What deep ball did he ever hit on last year except for the Foster one against the Jags (which was still kind of a crossing route). The only deep ball I can remember hit completing was to Zay against the Chargers but that was 5-10 yards under thrown still. IMO he has never been good at deep balls, people just want him to be because of his arm. But I could be mis-remembering too. Foster against the lions was a thing of beauty. Not sure if that counts as deep, as it was about 40 yards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Zay Jones is smoking weed before every game 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: How many QB’s have new WR’s this year? Does Gardner Minshew or Lamar Jackson have more experience with their WR’s than Allen does? Why do your explanations only apply to Allen and not most QB’s in the NFL? It doesn't just apply to Allen. Lamar had Hollywood brown running open by 10 yards a few times and hit him.. Allen had Zay Jones by 3 steps, circumstances Big Ben has one of the best deep balls in the world and was statistically"below average" last season ... Did he lose it? No Teams gameplanned and took it away. The same way teams are making Allen go 80 yards in 10 plays , they aren't giving it to him in 1... When he has someone deep, it's Zay Jones usually, not a coincidence... Coordinators will gameplan to take away brown deep... And will live with Zay Jones going deep 1on1 because they don't think he will make the play Defensive players and coordinators get payed too. It's pick your poison with a guy like Big Ben or Rodgers, they can throw everywhere anytime Josh Allen's short game scared nobody going into the season , so they took away the deep ball 12 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Foster against the lions was a thing of beauty. Not sure if that counts as deep, as it was about 40 yards? A deep ball in the NFL is a pass over 20 yards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey152 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: It doesn't just apply to Allen. Lamar had Hollywood brown running open by 10 yards a few times and hit him.. Allen had Zay Jones by 3 steps, circumstances Big Ben has one of the best deep balls in the world and was statistically"below average" last season ... Did he lose it? No Teams gameplanned and took it away. The same way teams are making Allen go 80 yards in 10 plays , they aren't giving it to him in 1... When he has someone deep, it's Zay Jones usually, not a coincidence... Coordinators will gameplan to take away brown deep... And will live with Zay Jones going deep 1on1 because they don't think he will make the play Defensive players and coordinators get payed too. It's pick your poison with a guy like Big Ben or Rodgers, they can throw everywhere anytime Josh Allen's short game scared nobody going into the season , so they took away the deep ball A deep ball in the NFL is a pass over 20 yards I think a WR's ability to track the football is seriously underrated when it comes to a deep ball...A QB is not super precise on something that far away and with that high of a launch angle. It's all about timing and a WR's ability to adjust. Case in point, Tyrod Taylor was one of the best deep ball throwers in the league...when he targeted Sammy Watkins. After Sammy left, Tyrod couldn't connect to save his life. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Just now, Mikey152 said: I think a WR's ability to track the football is seriously underrated when it comes to a deep ball...A QB is not super precise on something that far away and with that high of a launch angle. It's all about timing and a WR's ability to adjust. Case in point, Tyrod Taylor was one of the best deep ball throwers in the league...when he targeted Sammy Watkins. After Sammy left, Tyrod couldn't connect to save his life. Thank you and that's been a major point of mine for years Zay Jones CANT TRACK A DEEP BALL... A Really good receiver slows down or speeds up to track the football in the air! It never just falls into your lap! 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Mikey152 said: I think a WR's ability to track the football is seriously underrated when it comes to a deep ball...A QB is not super precise on something that far away and with that high of a launch angle. It's all about timing and a WR's ability to adjust. So true about tracking the ball. So many “perfect” bombs are the receiver adjusting his speed and angle to the ball in the air. Zay is horrible at that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 3 hours ago, jletha said: I think youre misremembering honestly. What deep ball did he ever hit on last year except for the Foster one against the Jags (which was still kind of a crossing route). The only deep ball I can remember hit completing was to Zay against the Chargers but that was 5-10 yards under thrown still. IMO he has never been good at deep balls, people just want him to be because of his arm. But I could be mis-remembering too. I think so too. Sure he has blind squirrel hit a few, but he consistently over or under throws most of them. The dude can throw it a country mile, we're just not real sure where it's gonna come down. Up until Sunday and early in the 2nd half he has looked dead on on the short to mid throws. Concentrate the offense around that and pounding the rock. Throw a few long ones each game to keep the D honest. You might get PI on one. But don't count on this being a big part of our O. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 3 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said: The ball he threw deep to Foster in the Bengals game was right on the money in full stride; just a terrific play by the safety to run across the field and leap up and knock it away. But that was double coverage and shouldn't have been thrown. His only accurate deep throw all season should have been a pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoffs? Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Footwork and lack of internal clock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 He's trying it less, so I think it's a sample size issue. Plus, throw out anything he did against the Patriots because he was completely rattled most of the game facing an elite defense and a scheme designed to confuse him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said: So true about tracking the ball. So many “perfect” bombs are the receiver adjusting his speed and angle to the ball in the air. Zay is horrible at that. Hard to "track" a ball when it's five yards beyond you and you're running in a straight line as fast as you can. Let's not make excuses here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 3 hours ago, John from Riverside said: Didnt seem to have a problem with it last year We didn’t throw long much (if at all) the first 3 weeks this year, and we started, inexplicably, against the Pats* where he was under serious duress and soiling his pants. I won’t judge him on a lousy half against Belichick in his 15th start. It happens. Routinely. He later looked to be coming around....until a cheap shot ended things. Still not pretty, but I’m not freaking out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Just now, dave mcbride said: But that was double coverage and shouldn't have been thrown. No, it wasnt. It looked that way originally but on the All-22 it was completely different. The safety that looked deep was not the safety that knocked away the ball. That guy came from completely the other side of the field and made a ridiculous play to get there and knock it away. It wasn't double coverage at all. The safety on Fosters side came in and didn't cover him at all. 2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Hard to "track" a ball when it's five yards beyond you and you're running in a straight line as fast as you can. Let's not make excuses here. I'm talking all three years he has been horrible tracking the ball. Not any specific play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsherd Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 I don't recall him being good at the deep ball. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said: No, it wasnt. It looked that way originally but on the All-22 it was completely different. The safety that looked deep was not the safety that knocked away the ball. That guy came from completely the other side of the field and made a ridiculous play to get there and knock it away. It wasn't double coverage at all. The safety on Fosters side came in and didn't cover him at all. I'm talking all three years he has been horrible tracking the ball. Not any specific play. I am not talking about last year or tyrod’s last year. I am talking about this year alone. Edited October 3, 2019 by dave mcbride 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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