Clowney Trending for some reason.

[Kirby Jackson]

27 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

 

Never rely on a handshake agreement.

 

I can imagine what Rams' fans feel about the Watkins 1yr rental.

So you trade Nsekhe & a 2nd. You can always tag him. If you decide not to you get him for a year and a 3rd round comp pick the next year.

 

Also, Clowney functionally has a no-trade clause. He has to agree to the tender before getting traded. If he doesn’t like the destination he won’t go. Gaine wanted him extended and that’s part of the reason he is gone. If Clowney does agree to come here there’s a VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY good chance that the Bills and his agent have discussed the parameters of a deal. Gaine already knows what it will take. If the Bills trade for him it’s because they are comfortable with that number.

[LSHMEAB]

This would make me a very happy, optimistic Bills fan. So naturally, it won't happen.

[YoloinOhio]

?

[Reed83HOF]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

?

[whatdrought]

6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

?

 

I hate them. 

[MJS]

7 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

?

This is going to turn out to be nothing and they are going to tweet out (after all the backlash):

 

"Why So Serious!?"

 

It's their big plan.

[FluffHead]

16 minutes ago, MJS said:

This is going to turn out to be nothing and they are going to tweet out (after all the backlash):

 

"Why So Serious!?"

 

It's their big plan.

They will have gained a whole ton of followers in the process too 

[buffalo2218]

Even if by some miracle this is true, I'm not sure I'd like the idea of trading Ty away. As another poster pointed out, he chose to come to Buffalo, doesn't seem right to just ship him off given his choice of helping this team get better. Also, I was starting to get fond of the idea of having 2 maulers on the right side of the line. I can't remember the last time the right side even showed promise like this. To me, Clowney hasn't played up to his draft status, and apparently he has an injury history, hell we already have that in Murphy and by some reports, he's made good strides getting back to his old form. If Beane chooses to make the trade, I'll support it, but I will wonder how it'll affect this O line going forward

[Say When...]

1 minute ago, FluffHead said:

They will have gained a whole ton of followers in the process too 

 

a pun?

[Augie]

I admit to thinking he’d be overpriced and has underproduced. I have ZERO basis for that, since I very rarely see a play from a Texans game. I’ll listen to @Kirby Jackson and @GunnerBill since they know far more than I do on the subject and have made very reasonable arguments. If Beane agrees and can get it done, I’ll be 100% on board.

 

I know my approval will help the FO sleep well at night.  ?

Edited August 15, 2019 by Augie

[NoSaint]

Just now, Augie said:

I admit too thinking he’d be overpriced and has underproduced. I have ZERO basis for that, since I very rarely see a play from a Texans game. I’ll listen to @Kirby Jackson and @GunnerBill since they know far more than I do on the subject and have made very reasonable arguments. If Beane agrees and can get it done, I’ll be 100% on board.

 

I know my approval will help the FO sleep well at night.  ?

 

Ultimately, I think it’d come down to what you think of a guy like mario. Pricey, and not huge sack numbers but excellent all around player and freakish athlete that can get a power rush from the edge while maintaining responsibilities in the run game, or even athletic enough to drop. 

 

In a 43 scheme like ours, those guys are great for being both productive while also freeing up other all over the field. Only so many can do it all instead of just being speed off the edge or stout vs the run. 

 

Hes not a guy I break the bank for if paying a qb already but in this situation his a textbook fit for us I think 

[nucci]

23 minutes ago, buffalo2218 said:

Even if by some miracle this is true, I'm not sure I'd like the idea of trading Ty away. As another poster pointed out, he chose to come to Buffalo, doesn't seem right to just ship him off given his choice of helping this team get better. Also, I was starting to get fond of the idea of having 2 maulers on the right side of the line. I can't remember the last time the right side even showed promise like this. To me, Clowney hasn't played up to his draft status, and apparently he has an injury history, hell we already have that in Murphy and by some reports, he's made good strides getting back to his old form. If Beane chooses to make the trade, I'll support it, but I will wonder how it'll affect this O line going forward

Oh come on. The guy hasn't played a down for the Bills. He chose to come here because we offered him a good deal. We don't know if he will even be any good. You always try to improve the team. Clowney will be a huge get

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, unbillievable said:

 

Never rely on a handshake agreement.

 

I can imagine what Rams' fans feel about the Watkins 1yr rental.

 

They think that their GM did an amazing job hiring the top young HC in the NFL and not half stepping in free agency and trades and creating an astounding franchise turnaround in just one season.

 

That's how it's done now.

 

But some Bills fans want a tepid, slow build because they are afraid of making mistakes and perhaps even afraid of success and the disappointment of losing in the playoffs.

 

 

 

 

[unbillievable]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

They think that their GM did an amazing job hiring the top young HC in the NFL and not half stepping in free agency and trades and creating an astounding franchise turnaround in just one season.

 

That's how it's done now.

 

But some Bills fans want a tepid, slow build because they are afraid of making mistakes and perhaps even afraid of success and the disappointment of losing in the playoffs.

 

 

So you're saying the Bills will make it to the Superbowl in 2021, once they let Clowney walk at the end of the year, and replace him with a cheaper free-agent?

[buffalo2218]

6 minutes ago, nucci said:

Oh come on. The guy hasn't played a down for the Bills. He chose to come here because we offered him a good deal. We don't know if he will even be any good. You always try to improve the team. Clowney will be a huge get

Nothing I've seen about Clowney remotely screams "huge get". And yeah, we did offer him a good deal, doesn't change the fact that he still chose Buffalo. To me, with or without Clowney, this is still a good defense. The O line on the other hand has been a problem for quite a long time

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

21 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

They think that their GM did an amazing job hiring the top young HC in the NFL and not half stepping in free agency and trades and creating an astounding franchise turnaround in just one season.

 

That's how it's done now.

 

But some Bills fans want a tepid, slow build because they are afraid of making mistakes and perhaps even afraid of success and the disappointment of losing in the playoffs.

 

 

 

 

 

Asinine.

[unbillievable]

What is the point of a player holding out for more money, if they aren't allowed to sign a bigger contract anyway?

[BADOLBILZ]

10 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

 

So you're saying the Bills will make it to the Superbowl in 2021, once they let Clowney walk at the end of the year, and replace him with a cheaper free-agent?

 

 

I'm saying I'm not afraid of the Bills making moves with modest future draft capital to try to become a SB contender now.

 

On paper the 2019 Bills may seem light versus the incumbent SB favorites but anyone who thinks that the 1990-1991 Bills went in SB XXV as the biggest SB favorite ever after 12 months of expectations of them dominating as they did are wrong.   The organization was considered a dysfunctional mess and an afterthought heading into that season.   The 1989 Niners were considered possibly the greatest team in NFL history at the time and were overwhelming favorites heading into that season.   It was supposed to be them and 29 also-rans.  Things can change.

 

A first round pick for Clowney is too rich for me but take a look at the Bills history of 2nd and 3rd round picks.    There are more Zay Jones and Reggie Ragnuts and more John Millers and Preston Browns than there are difference makers.  

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

What is the point of a player holding out for more money, if they aren't allowed to sign a bigger contract anyway?

 

 

Clowney is not holding out for more money.

 

He is holding out for a long term contract.

 

Houston has no intention of giving him an extension.

 

He has to report by week 11 to accrue an NFL season but he can withhold his services up until then so that gives him leverage to get him traded to a team that he and his agent can get a handshake agreement with to give him an extension.    

 

 

[Locomark]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

So you trade Nsekhe & a 2nd. You can always tag him. If you decide not to you get him for a year and a 3rd round comp pick the next year.

 

Also, Clowney functionally has a no-trade clause. He has to agree to the tender before getting traded. If he doesn’t like the destination he won’t go. Gaine wanted him extended and that’s part of the reason he is gone. If Clowney does agree to come here there’s a VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY good chance that the Bills and his agent have discussed the parameters of a deal. Gaine already knows what it will take. If the Bills trade for him it’s because they are comfortable with that number.

 

I would do that if he has 2-3 years left on a deal BUT I am not sold on a guy that we have to hand $20 plus million/yr to for a guy who has never hit double digit sacks. He would be awesome paired with Jerry for a few years though. I would much rather we spend $20 million on an elite offensive talent because we need that more and this game is won on offense! 

[JinxedBill1]

I just here to be apart of this epic thread.

 

imo Clooney for a swing tackle and a 2nd is a no brainer. 

[unbillievable]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

I'm saying I'm not afraid of the Bills making moves with modest future draft capital to try to become a SB contender now.

 

On paper the 2019 Bills may seem light versus the incumbent SB favorites but anyone who thinks that the 1990-1991 Bills went in SB XXV as the biggest SB favorite ever after 12 months of expectations of them dominating as they did are wrong.   The organization was considered a dysfunctional mess and an afterthought heading into that season.   The 1989 Niners were considered possibly the greatest team in NFL history at the time and were overwhelming favorites heading into that season.   It was supposed to be them and 29 also-rans.  Things can change.

 

A first round pick for Clowney is too rich for me but take a look at the Bills history of 2nd and 3rd round picks.    There are more Zay Jones and Reggie Ragnuts and more John Millers and Preston Browns than there are difference makers.  

 

Copying the worst mistakes of a good team is not a way to get better.

 

...and saying that 2nd and 3rd round picks have no value because of history is downright idiotic... And 8/10 2nd round picks by the Bills the last 10 years are current NFL starters.

 

[Locomark]

2 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

 

Copying the worst mistakes of a good team is not a way to get better.

 

...and saying that 2nd and 3rd round picks have no value because of history is downright idiotic... And 8/10 2nd round picks by the Bills the last 10 years are current NFL starters.

 

also....what if PFF is right and Ty's grade really does make him a Top 10 type RT? Doesn't he give us a chance to get our best 5 on the field and for what cost, 1 year of a great pass rush on great defense at the expense of a mediocre offense. 

[unbillievable]

1 minute ago, Locomark said:

also....what if PFF is right and Ty's grade really does make him a Top 10 type RT? Doesn't he give us a chance to get our best 5 on the field and for what cost, 1 year of a great pass rush on great defense at the expense of a mediocre offense. 

 

I actually really like Clowney, and think he would do good here...

...but there are red flags when the team who drafted him #1overall isn't willing to give him a 2nd contract.

 

 

[MiltonWaddams]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

The chances of the Bills getting a player like Clowney with a 2nd or 3rd round pick is slim to none.

 

So. you're saying there's a chance?

[MiltonWaddams]

Just now, unbillievable said:

 

I actually really like Clowney, and think he would do good here...

...but there are red flags when the team who drafted him #1overall isn't willing to give him a 2nd contract.

 

 

We are not talking about the most high-functioning organization in the league. Mario was also picked #1 overall 

[unbillievable]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The chances of the Bills getting a player like Clowney with a 2nd or 3rd round pick is slim to none.

 

I think the Texans and Clowney think he is worth Mack compensation in picks and money. I see another Lev'eon Bell situation happening.

 

 

2 minutes ago, MiltonWaddams said:

We are not talking about the most high-functioning organization in the league. Mario was also picked #1 overall 

They gave Mario a 2nd contract. And they let him go when they hit cap hell.

The current Texans have 36 mil in space.

[Cotton Fitzsimmons]

In all seriousness, rumors and INCARCERATED BOB tweets aside... why was Nsekhe held out of practice? Maybe YE OLE is behind on the inner workings of this story, but is it still the case that nobody has asked about this and it hasn’t been addressed by the team? 

 

Clowney aside, it’s a bizarre situation not to address at all.

[BADOLBILZ]

28 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

 

Copying the worst mistakes of a good team is not a way to get better.

 

...and saying that 2nd and 3rd round picks have no value because of history is downright idiotic... And 8/10 2nd round picks by the Bills the last 10 years are current NFL starters.

 

 

 

I never said those picks have "no value" straw man......... but there are zero proven difference makers on that list of 10 second round picks...........it's a who's who of guys who you can get cheap in free agency to fill a need and usually at a position of lesser value.

 

If you think your team can be competitive you don't pass on even one season of a difference making pass rusher to save 4 seasons of Preston Brown or Zay Jones.

 

Edit ONE difference maker in Bob Woods...........out of 10 years.

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by BADOLBILZ

[John from Riverside]

Really torn.....I like Ty.

 

Maybe we get our pass rusher out of next year's draft.

[unbillievable]

21 minutes ago, Cotton Fitzsimmons said:

In all seriousness, rumors and INCARCERATED BOB tweets aside... why was Nsekhe held out of practice? Maybe YE OLE is behind on the inner workings of this story, but is it still the case that nobody has asked about this and it hasn’t been addressed by the team? 

 

Clowney aside, it’s a bizarre situation not to address at all.

 

It was speculated that he might have violated curfew, or some other team rule.

Victim of the process...

[YoloinOhio]

27 minutes ago, Cotton Fitzsimmons said:

In all seriousness, rumors and INCARCERATED BOB tweets aside... why was Nsekhe held out of practice? Maybe YE OLE is behind on the inner workings of this story, but is it still the case that nobody has asked about this and it hasn’t been addressed by the team? 

 

Clowney aside, it’s a bizarre situation not to address at all.

Not really that bizarre. There have been no coaches available to the media since then to ask other than Frazier, who would not have been the right coach to ask. I’m sure they will ask McDermott next time he’s available. Today it was Daboll before practice and Frazier after. 

[DCofNC]

22 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Really? The depth on this roster is near the top of the league. We still have, in this scenario (a 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th) and the most cap space in the league. We have better TE depth than we’ve had since the mid 90’s (and maybe better) and added 9 OL. LB depth is young but not weak. Where do you draft a depth LB? Round 4? Good, because we still have that. If you have concerns about the roster development moving forward I don’t know what to tell you. They are in as good a position as any team moving forward. They have young (cheap talent), the most cap space in the league and depth all over (especially on d). They need some top end talent but they have the resources to do that.

Come on now, that is SERIOUS Homerism.  

 

I'm fine for getting Clowney, but there's plenty of room for improvement with this roster.

 

TE has exactly zero proven talent outside of Lee Smith, you are assuming two rookies and a guy with half a good season are "the best in years" 

 

The depth behind Zo is weak and young, so you are going to need to draft one to start, ie 2nd round next year or you are signing one. 

 

On to the cap space, you are still not attracting superstars to Buffalo NY without the potential of winning a SB.  This team can't beat the Pats, nor likely even manage to get to a WC game.. so who cares what cap space you have?  It's shown already, your signings here are injury riddled guys who are still getting over paid to come. 

 

Unless Allen makes a HUGE leap, this team is going no where.  Thats going to be difficult with no body of real talent to throw to.

40 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

 

I actually really like Clowney, and think he would do good here...

...but there are red flags when the team who drafted him #1overall isn't willing to give him a 2nd contract.

 

 

Yeah it says they are smart enough to realize they gave Watt a huge deal and still cant win ***** because offense wins in this league and they're not dumping 22M a year into it again.

[unbillievable]

Math....

 

There are 53 + 10 roster spots

Each team gets 7 draft picks

That means it takes 8 years to fill a roster.

The average players lasts 3.3 years.

Who fills the other 4.7 years?

 

 

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

39 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Come on now, that is SERIOUS Homerism.  

 

I'm fine for getting Clowney, but there's plenty of room for improvement with this roster.

 

TE has exactly zero proven talent outside of Lee Smith, you are assuming two rookies and a guy with half a good season are "the best in years" 

 

The depth behind Zo is weak and young, so you are going to need to draft one to start, ie 2nd round next year or you are signing one. 

 

On to the cap space, you are still not attracting superstars to Buffalo NY without the potential of winning a SB.  This team can't beat the Pats, nor likely even manage to get to a WC game.. so who cares what cap space you have?  It's shown already, your signings here are injury riddled guys who are still getting over paid to come. 

 

Unless Allen makes a HUGE leap, this team is going no where.  Thats going to be difficult with no body of real talent to throw to.

This team just traded up to draft a TE in the top 96 picks. He’s, physically, as gifted as pretty much any TE that they have ever had. He doesn’t have a resume but physically stacks up with any TE. They signed another TE to a $19M deal. He caught 7 TDs in 2017. They added back Smith and used a pick on Sweeney. They had Jason Croom playing a lot last year. He’s 5th in this group. The depth is greatly improved there.

 

Corey Thompson has had a big camp. He can potentially develop into a starter. He’s young. If not, you can try to squeeze another season out of Zo, sign someone else or draft a guy. Milano and Edmunds are 3 down guys. If Zo wasn’t so effective a lot of those snaps would be eaten up by an extra DB. It’s probably a “big nickel” type like Siran Neal. He played CB, S and LB in college. I think Jaquan Johnson did as well.

 

They signed the most FAs in the NFL this year (at least they had through the first month). With the new facility and their reputation the Bills have had ZERO issue in attracting free agents. That’s a lazy (and wrong) take. The Bills have an open window with their best talents on rookie contracts. This is the EXACT time that you spend to attract top talent. 

 

We do agree that Josh needs to continue to develop. We also agree that he needs a number 1 target. With that being said the guys that he’s throwing to this year are MILES ahead of the guys that he had last year (hence roster depth). I expect the 1st round pick to be used on a number 1 receiver. While Jerry Jeudy is a dream they won’t get a shot at him. Shenault or Lamb or Higgins could all fill that role. 

 

Not really a homer at all, I’m just a realist. The middle to back of the Bills roster is really strong. They need stars and top end talent. This isn’t going to be a year where they sign 18 FAs again (or whatever it was). They are going to target some impact players (ie Clowney) and pull the trigger. 

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by Kirby Jackson

[whatdrought]

Good post @Kirby Jackson... My only counter is that it is still a lot of unproven young depth, but there's really not a way to avoid that. Good teams have young players throughout with some marque veterans and a couple superstars. 

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

This is going to turn out to be nothing and they are going to tweet out (after all the backlash):

 

"Why So Serious!?"

 

It's their big plan.

 

Sadly, I could see them doing that lol

[Chandler#81]

51 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Come on now, that is SERIOUS Homerism.  

 

I'm fine for getting Clowney, but there's plenty of room for improvement with this roster.

 

TE has exactly zero proven talent outside of Lee Smith, you are assuming two rookies and a guy with half a good season are "the best in years" 

 

The depth behind Zo is weak and young, so you are going to need to draft one to start, ie 2nd round next year or you are signing one. 

 

On to the cap space, you are still not attracting superstars to Buffalo NY without the potential of winning a SB.  This team can't beat the Pats, nor likely even manage to get to a WC game.. so who cares what cap space you have?  It's shown already, your signings here are injury riddled guys who are still getting over paid to come. 

 

Unless Allen makes a HUGE leap, this team is going no where.  Thats going to be difficult with no body of real talent to throw to.

Yeah it says they are smart enough to realize they gave Watt a huge deal and still cant win ***** because offense wins in this league and they're not dumping 22M a year into it again.

 

Oh, you’re a real charmer! You’re gonna do well here. I have a sense about these things.

[Cotton Fitzsimmons]

59 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Not really that bizarre. There have been no coaches available to the media since then to ask other than Frazier, who would not have been the right coach to ask. I’m sure they will ask McDermott next time he’s available. Today it was Daboll before practice and Frazier after. 

 

YOLO, my good friend, thank you for the clarification. YE OLE needs to know who knew Nsekhe was being held out and when they knew it!

[Kirby Jackson]

40 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

Good post @Kirby Jackson... My only counter is that it is still a lot of unproven young depth, but there's really not a way to avoid that. Good teams have young players throughout with some marque veterans and a couple superstars. 

That’s totally fair. I think that’s part of the reason that the Bills added so many guys via the draft and FA over the last few years. They were trying to get more bites at the apple. As an example, I’m not sure if Long or Feliciano or even Spain are that good. Instead of adding one and hoping that they were good the Bills brought them all in to increase their chances of one or 2 being good. It’s the same thing at TE. They brought in 2 vets and drafted 2 more. They all come with questions but you increase your odds by increasing the bodies. It doesn’t necessarily mean that you’ll address the issues but you are certainly more likely too.