What would a Shaq Lawson contract extension look like for the Buffalo Bills?

[Doc Brown]

45 minutes ago, nucci said:

If they didn't pick up his option, why would they bother offering him a new deal? Same thing they did with Sammy

The idea with not picking up Watkins's option at the time was if he has a great year we could sign him to a long term extension at any time, franchise tag him, or trade him to get something of value.  Beane chose the third option.  If Shaq somehow has a monster year and we can't come to terms then we can just put the franchise tag on him if.  If he plays like he did last year then we either let him walk or sign him to a moderate contract.  We also have the ability to trade him at any time this offseason.

[billsfan_34]

52 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Point taken.
Rex drafted him for his genius defense. and put him in a role he had not played before

 Drafted a seriously injured player.
He looks better in McD 4 -3 for sure and can move inside. played steady last year.
 Kid was behind the 8 ball from the get go.

It sure seems folks are still evaluating him with a bias towards his draft.
 

 try to take a fresh set of eyeballs this year and watch him.

Kid can play football.

 but yes,

 in his own best interest he should move on. Bills will hopefully create a heavy competition at both RE and LE and or "edge "

solid rotational player ?

He would be much better on the inside imo but is he stout enough? He did have a better year last season after a very bad pre-season. I want him to get better but he may  have peaked already. I guess we will have to wait and see. He may he rotational,     I just dont see it with the Bills next year.

 

Edited June 20, 2019 by billsfan_34

[MJS]

Why would we resign him?

[Ol Dirty B]

6 hours ago, Rigotz said:

He will play well this year because he seems to be a self-centered guy (based on following his instagram for several years).

Hopefully he plays well so we can trade him for a pick.

 

There is a zero percent chance we extend him. He doesn't fit in with this regime at all. He's a classic Rex guy.

 

Who doesn't seem self centered on Instagram? 

[Dopey]

2 hours ago, CuddyDark said:

What you believe is irrelevant. It's not to difficult to look it up. He played 34 RDE and 34 ROLB for Clemson.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/shaq-lawson?id=2555252

 

 

 

As an ACC fan, I watched Lawson play at Clemson. A lot. He was a 4-3 de. He may have stood up as an olb, but that was rare. Very rare. He was not a 3-4 de or a 3-4 olb. Your link says he played 5 technique and standing up on the outside, that was very rare. That write up is way off. Shaq was definitely not an olb in any way. It's easy to Google, you're correct, but the internet isn't always right. And it's definitely not in this case.

 

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.shakinthesouthland.com/platform/amp/2015/8/31/9229055/clemson-football-season-preview-defense-tactics&ved=2ahUKEwiG6eXYqvniAhUiwlkKHcnICSMQFjABegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3Coy-hwcrbyXLCaYodzuFF&ampcf=1

Edited June 21, 2019 by Dopey

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

2 years 8 mill.  4 mill gtd

 

That's what I think he gets on the market.  Of course it depends some on how he plays this year.

Bills probably pass on him unless Murphy gets injured or plays badly.

They may keep him on a short contract as a rotational DE if that's the case.

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

The idea with not picking up Watkins's option at the time was if he has a great year we could sign him to a long term extension at any time, franchise tag him, or trade him to get something of value.  Beane chose the third option.  If Shaq somehow has a monster year and we can't come to terms then we can just put the franchise tag on him if.  If he plays like he did last year then we either let him walk or sign him to a moderate contract.  We also have the ability to trade him at any time this offseason.

 

That doesn’t make sense.  All of those options would’ve been available if they had franchised Watkins.  That includes the ability to trade him which is an option they otherwise would not have had (unless they had tagged him first).

 

This is the dead season for football. There’s no harm in what-ifing situations like this, but let’s keep the odds of it happening real.  If teams want to keep 1st round picks, then they pick up their option or extend them early.  There’s was no higher level game being played with Lawson or Watkins.  Since the 5th year option was added, exactly one player who did not have one of those things happen stayed with the team that drafted him - Mark Ingram with the Saints.  Lawson is gone after this season. It’s better for him and it’s better for us. 

 

[loyal2dagame]

If I had a dime for every time someone mentioned how the Bills should extend Lawson based off his play.........

I'd have ZERO dimes. 

Lawson hasn't been what we hoped.  Time to move on.  

 

[TigerJ]

Regardless of Lawson's asking price, I think the Bills will be looking for a defensive end in the top two rounds of next year's draft.  If they don't get one in the first, they will try for one in the second.  They want an upgrade.  If Trent Murphy is and can stay healthy,  They'll use him on one side.  I think Jerry Hughes is still under contract for 2021, isn't he?   He could still start in 2021.  He;s getting pretty old, but he's been pretty durable, and he's still effective when the Bills can get pressure from other linemen too.  I don't think the Bills will be looking to pay Lawson a big time contract.

[Locomark]

Lawson would need to provide a much improved pass rush to warrant anything more than 2 years $10million total from me and that would need to have the standard one year $ guarantee so we could walk quickly. He just hasn’t impressed enough to show any confidence in any long term deal. 

Edited June 21, 2019 by Locomark

[BADOLBILZ]

 

The value in not picking up his option was to provide motivation for 2019 and not risk having to pay him if injured.

 

Extending him now negates both of those.

 

Leave the carrot in front of him if you want to see the best he can do.

[CommonCents]

No thanks. Shaq is late night drive through food, slow and never as good as you’d hope. 

[Rocky Landing]

22 minutes ago, loyal2dagame said:

If I had a dime for every time someone mentioned how the Bills should extend Lawson based off his play.........

I'd have ZERO dimes. 

Lawson hasn't been what we hoped.  Time to move on.  

 

Except that it's not time to move on. We are too thin at DE for that. That time will be at the end of the season, when his contract is up, and we can address the position. And, that's assuming that his season goes about the same as it did last season. Or, maybe it doesn't? Is it conceivable that Lawson has not reached his ceiling, that he has a great season, and we decide to keep him? It could happen.

[US Egg]

A waste of money ?

[loyal2dagame]

42 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Except that it's not time to move on. We are too thin at DE for that. That time will be at the end of the season, when his contract is up, and we can address the position. And, that's assuming that his season goes about the same as it did last season. Or, maybe it doesn't? Is it conceivable that Lawson has not reached his ceiling, that he has a great season, and we decide to keep him? It could happen.

Let me clarify.  I'm not saying to cut the guy.  Let him play out his deal and leave. He hasn't show any flashes of greatness and way to few flashes of good.  

[Fan in Chicago]

It depends on how he performs in a contract year with a solid interior DL. Also depends on how Murphy does and who else would be available in FA market next year. If our pass rush is anemic again this year despite a solid middle DL, good LBs and secondary, then Lawson will not be on the Bills and the team will look for a better pass rusher/EDGE. 

At this point, too early to tell and perhaps mid-season we will have a much better idea. 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Vet minimum...

[Rocky Landing]

17 minutes ago, loyal2dagame said:

Let me clarify.  I'm not saying to cut the guy.  Let him play out his deal and leave. He hasn't show any flashes of greatness and way to few flashes of good.  

I understood that. My point is that we shouldn't make assumptions on his upcoming season. He might just break out. Or, he might show just enough improvement that we decide that he is worth an amount that he is willing to accept, we are willing to pay, and other teams don't want to match. After all, he lost his entire rookie season, was piss poor his second season, and improved (I would say dramatically) his third season. It's not unlikely that his trajectory will continue to trend up, and we may very well regret not picking up his 5th year option.

At the very least, is it not unreasonable to think that he may not have reached his potential? 

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

He’s not coming back, I don’t think he is at all what McDermott is looking for from a starting DE, schematically.

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Dr.Mantis_Toboggan said:

He’s not coming back, I don’t think he is at all what McDermott is looking for from a starting DE, schematically.

 

McDermott has always played with a "big end" on one side of his line so I don't think that is true. Schematically I think he fits. He is just upgradeable. 

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

That doesn’t make sense.  All of those options would’ve been available if they had franchised Watkins.  That includes the ability to trade him which is an option they otherwise would not have had (unless they had tagged him first).

 

This is the dead season for football. There’s no harm in what-ifing situations like this, but let’s keep the odds of it happening real.  If teams want to keep 1st round picks, then they pick up their option or extend them early.  There’s was no higher level game being played with Lawson or Watkins.  Since the 5th year option was added, exactly one player who did not have one of those things happen stayed with the team that drafted him - Mark Ingram with the Saints.  Lawson is gone after this season. It’s better for him and it’s better for us. 

 

You can add Kyle Fuller, Nick Perry, Doug Martin, and Morris Claiborne to that list.  With Ingram that makes five players in the four available years.  Kyle Fuller and Nick Perry broke out in their 5th season and both eventually signed long term deals with the team that drafted them.  Packers pry regret signing Nick Perry long term  Doug Martin had a great fourth year and then declined after the Bucs signed him to a big contract.  Also regret it.  Claiborne dealt with injuries and the Cowboys gave him a one year prove it deal.

 

While it's not likely the Bills will retain Lawson it's not as rare as you suggested.  I like having him on basically a one year prove it deal.

[CuddyDark]

12 hours ago, Dopey said:

As an ACC fan, I watched Lawson play at Clemson. A lot. He was a 4-3 de. He may have stood up as an olb, but that was rare. Very rare. He was not a 3-4 de or a 3-4 olb. Your link says he played 5 technique and standing up on the outside, that was very rare. That write up is way off. Shaq was definitely not an olb in any way. It's easy to Google, you're correct, but the internet isn't always right. And it's definitely not in this case.

 

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.shakinthesouthland.com/platform/amp/2015/8/31/9229055/clemson-football-season-preview-defense-tactics&ved=2ahUKEwiG6eXYqvniAhUiwlkKHcnICSMQFjABegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3Coy-hwcrbyXLCaYodzuFF&ampcf=1

I watched almost every televised game and Shaq Played 5tech and ROLB in everyone I watched. I wouldn't take the word of a blog over NFL.com who studied Shaq for the draft.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

I watched almost every televised game and Shaq Played 5tech and ROLB in everyone I watched. I wouldn't take the word of a blog over NFL.com who studied Shaq for the draft.

 

So he definitely played mainly as a 5 technique - which traditionally people associate with a defensive end in a 3-4 - but Clemson are a 4-3 over team. The majority of his snaps came in what I would call a defensive end position but I actually think when it comes to defensive linemen how you categorise them as ends / tackles / rushing linebackers matters less than what you are asking them to do.

[CuddyDark]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

McDermott has always played with a "big end" on one side of his line so I don't think that is true. Schematically I think he fits. He is just upgradeable. 

Many don't understand this. The strong side end has to be a 5-6 tech type player. Brandon Graham, is a "McDermott" draft pick, so is Greg Hardy. The defense is not a stats defense. It's a teamwork defense. Shaq has a greater role than stat. Can he be upgraded, yes. Can every player on the roster be upgraded? YES.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, CuddyDark said:

Many don't understand this. The strong side end has to be a 5-6 tech type player. Brandon Graham, is a "McDermott" draft pick, so is Greg Hardy. The defense is not a stats defense. It's a teamwork defense. Shaq has a greater role than stat. Can he be upgraded, yes. Can every player on the roster be upgraded? YES.

 

Yep. I agree with all that.

[CuddyDark]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So he definitely played mainly as a 5 technique - which traditionally people associate with a defensive end in a 3-4 - but Clemson are a 4-3 over team. The majority of his snaps came in what I would call a defensive end position but I actually think when it comes to defensive linemen how you categorise them as ends / tackles / rushing linebackers matters less than what you are asking them to do.

This is the point exactly. Shaq is not player 9 or 7 tech for the Bills. At least not from what I've seen. He's been mostly lined up as a 5 and 6 where he is playing the run and when they go pass rush they bring in Murphy to play what people believe are the typical responsibilities of a DE.

What I'd say is if the Bills are going to keep him they have to make his career mirror Michael Bennett and Brandon Graham where he is an inside player for nickel and coverage packages. If not, let him walk. 

[3rdand12]

22 hours ago, billsfan_34 said:

He would be much better on the inside imo but is he stout enough? He did have a better year last season after a very bad pre-season. I want him to get better but he may  have peaked already. I guess we will have to wait and see. He may he rotational,     I just dont see it with the Bills next year.

 

Honestly have no idea what Bills are asking of him this year. or what his ceiling is.

 But he is known to be slow of the ball and limited in pass rush moves. Can Bills fix any of that before the season ? Maybe some of it.

19 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The value in not picking up his option was to provide motivation for 2019 and not risk having to pay him if injured.

 

Extending him now negates both of those.

 

Leave the carrot in front of him if you want to see the best he can do.

exactly

19 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

Except that it's not time to move on. We are too thin at DE for that. That time will be at the end of the season, when his contract is up, and we can address the position. And, that's assuming that his season goes about the same as it did last season. Or, maybe it doesn't? Is it conceivable that Lawson has not reached his ceiling, that he has a great season, and we decide to keep him? It could happen.

yeps !

[LSHMEAB]

He's not going to get a "big" contract because teams are looking for ends to get to the quarterback, not set the edge. Even if they're looking for edgesetters, they don't want to pay them. They'll just draft one or sign one on the cheap.

 

I think he's shown enough to expect something in the 5 mil a year range. Alot will depend on this season, but he's only gonna get paid if he does something crazy like put up double digit sacks; which I don't expect.

8 hours ago, CuddyDark said:

Many don't understand this. The strong side end has to be a 5-6 tech type player. Brandon Graham, is a "McDermott" draft pick, so is Greg Hardy. The defense is not a stats defense. It's a teamwork defense. Shaq has a greater role than stat. Can he be upgraded, yes. Can every player on the roster be upgraded? YES.

Is it really that difficult to find an edge with Shaq's skill set? That's my issue. Anything greater than 5 or 6 mil a year would be an overpay IMO. Appreciate your perspective of the nuaces of McDermott's defense.

[Shooter McGavin]

Shaq’s best play was triggering the hell out of Leonard Fournette

[without a drought]

It would be massive.

[Mr. WEO]

 “Shaq Lawson is going to walk in off the bus starting."

[HOUSE]

If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding...

How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?

[Captain Murica]

14 hours ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Shaq’s best play was triggering the hell out of Leonard Fournette

My favorite Shaq play of all time. Wish he was on the field when Gronk people’s elbowed Tre. 

[ProcessTruster]

well, he , along with the Alabama LB whose name I've already forgotten (he's in KC now) were bigger, slower, boomers drafted into a completely different defense to play completely different roles than they are asked to play in a Les Frazier / McD high penetration, quickness emphasizing 4-3 .   So, IMO , no way Lawson is kept unless he magically morphs into a edge rusher by growing 20 lbs of fast twitch musculature, which he won't . 

 

Lawson is a great reason why you need to  find and stick with a solid GM/coaching scheme combinations for at least 5 years.  It takes 2-3 years to rebuild the roster (esp defense) to fit the scheme.  If you don't have the right players to fit the scheme, offenses with great QBs and OCs will absolutely  find the mismatches and exploit them.   and you'll lose that extra 3-4 games a season that keep you out of the playoffs. 

 

my two cents.  trust the process

[BarleyNY]

On 6/21/2019 at 4:23 AM, Doc Brown said:

You can add Kyle Fuller, Nick Perry, Doug Martin, and Morris Claiborne to that list.  With Ingram that makes five players in the four available years.  Kyle Fuller and Nick Perry broke out in their 5th season and both eventually signed long term deals with the team that drafted them.  Packers pry regret signing Nick Perry long term  Doug Martin had a great fourth year and then declined after the Bucs signed him to a big contract.  Also regret it.  Claiborne dealt with injuries and the Cowboys gave him a one year prove it deal.

 

While it's not likely the Bills will retain Lawson it's not as rare as you suggested.  I like having him on basically a one year prove it deal.

 

Yep. You’re right.  I can’t believe I missed that many, but I did. Rare, yes. But not as rare as I thought. 

[SoCal Deek]

I’m not sure what the fixation is with Lawson. He’s been pretty much invisible his entire career. Yes, he was a first round pick but if he hadn’t been he’d be just another guy on the team. I hear almost nothing about him taking a leadership role, or his mentoring younger players. He’s just sort of...there.

[CuddyDark]

31 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m not sure what the fixation is with Lawson. He’s been pretty much invisible his entire career. Yes, he was a first round pick but if he hadn’t been he’d be just another guy on the team. I hear almost nothing about him taking a leadership role, or his mentoring younger players. He’s just sort of...there.

This is stupid. He's the youngest End on the roster. Who he's going to take the leadership position from? Hughes? Murphy? Be realistic. He's not a great player. He's good at what they've asked him to do. He's limited. He's probably out after this season. Why make up reasons to dislike him?

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, CuddyDark said:

This is stupid. He's the youngest End on the roster. Who he's going to take the leadership position from? Hughes? Murphy? Be realistic. He's not a great player. He's good at what they've asked him to do. He's limited. He's probably out after this season. Why make up reasons to dislike him?

I don’t dislike him at all. On the contrary, I rarely give him a second thought. My point is one would think his stature as a former first rounder would ‘typically’ bring with it some locker room street cred but I never hear much about him in that way at all.

[Ronin]

Lawson, another in a fairly lengthy string of 1st-round draft busts for us.  

 

He's a backup caliber player whose snap-count % has been around 40% over the past two seasons, an unreliable starter, and who's averaged 3 sacks and 4 TFL per season, and a player with no particular strength.  

I don't think that such production is difficult to get in rounds 3-5 of the draft.  9 players from last year's draft did it, one even being a 6th-rounder.  

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...doubt there will be a UFA signing line bidding for his services......so let's say he honors his commitment recognizing 2019  as "do or die" and turns in a productive season......cutting to the chase for the Cliff Notes version, if, IF you could grab him for backup type money, realizing his familiarity with "the process", would you or just "pass"?..........