Dion Dawkins- on the hot seat?

[K-9]

On 4/27/2019 at 10:44 AM, BuffaloBillies said:

 

Seeing that potential line in writing gets me very excited.

 

Nsekhe 6' 8", 325 lb

Dawkins 6' 5", 320 lb

Morse 6' 6", 305 lb

Spain 6' 5", 335 lb

Ford 6' 4" 329

 

Time to get nasty upfront!

 

I don’t know. It’s gonna be hard for Shady and other RBs to be effective when they’re trying to run while sporting wood over this Oline.

Edited April 28, 2019 by K-9

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

57 minutes ago, BuffaloBillies said:

 

Seeing that potential line in writing gets me very excited.

 

Nsekhe 6' 8", 325 lb

Dawkins 6' 5", 320 lb

Morse 6' 6", 305 lb

Spain 6' 5", 335 lb

Ford 6' 4" 329

 

Time to get nasty upfront!

 

 

Good thing we have a tall QB.  Can you imagine Flutie behind that line!  They'd all be out with concussions from getting hit in the back of the helmet too many times with the football.

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

The only real threat to his starting spot is soon to be 34 year old Ty Nsekhe. There’s a decent chance now that he’s our backup swing tackle if BB and McD view Ford as a RT

There’s also a decent chance that he beats out our starting LT for his seat at the table.....if there’s a true open competition.

 

from everything I’ve read, Nsekhe’s play last year was pretty good.  Dawkins play was not. Maybe that was due to the players around him.  The skins have a talent line.  We also had Castillo as our OL.  Lots of things could’ve contributed to each of their play. 

 

I’m eager to see them battle it out.  Like I said, his last open competition, he was beaten by Jordan Mills.  Hopefully he steps up!  It would be great for our franchise if he can become a good starter long term.  It’s what I’m hoping for.  For him to earn it. He hasn’t earned anything yet.  We probably had the worst tackle unit in football last year

[Happy]

I don't think Dawkins is on the hot seat, but probably will compete with Nsekhe for starting LT.  If Dawkins loses out to Nsekhe, I imagine he will get a shot at LG or become depth and have a chance at further development at the position.  From what I observed, and I'm just an average fan, that Dawkins is not good enough (at least at this point) to hold down the LT spot by himself.  He needs a good LG next to him to be a more effective LT.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I'm excited this looks like one potentially nasty line. Making everyone compete is a great strategy and is underestimated by some on here.

[billspro]

1 hour ago, Ittakestime said:

If the Bills are serious about building a nasty line, they will go with:

 

Nsekhe, Dawkins, Morse, Spain, Ford

 

I'm saying it now, if Dawkins is the LT over Nsekhe, this team isn't serious about open competition an building the best line.

 

It wouldn’t surprise me if it played out that way.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

There’s also a decent chance that he beats out our starting LT for his seat at the table.....if there’s a true open competition.

 

from everything I’ve read, Nsekhe’s play last year was pretty good.  Dawkins play was not. Maybe that was due to the players around him.  The skins have a talent line.  We also had Castillo as our OL.  Lots of things could’ve contributed to each of their play. 

 

I’m eager to see them battle it out.  Like I said, his last open competition, he was beaten by Jordan Mills.  Hopefully he steps up!  It would be great for our franchise if he can become a good starter long term.  It’s what I’m hoping for.  For him to earn it. He hasn’t earned anything yet.  We probably had the worst tackle unit in football last year

 

If this were an "all things being equal" situation, you might be right that Nsekhe would win the job.  But sometimes you also have to look to the future.  Even if Nsekhe is better this year, at his age, he will not be the guy moving forward. You have a better chance of Dawkins being the guy.  Now, sure, you can let him sit for a year, and that might work.  It might also obliterate his relationship with the Bills.  But it would definitely take reps away from the guy that could be your future franchise LT.  

[Ittakestime]

I feel like people have this mindset that Dawkins was so dominant rookie LT.  I actually thought the line took a step back when he had to fill in for Glenn. 

 

When I see Dawkins play, I see Quenton Nelson. 

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

If this were an "all things being equal" situation, you might be right that Nsekhe would win the job.  But sometimes you also have to look to the future.  Even if Nsekhe is better this year, at his age, he will not be the guy moving forward. You have a better chance of Dawkins being the guy.  Now, sure, you can let him sit for a year, and that might work.  It might also obliterate his relationship with the Bills.  But it would definitely take reps away from the guy that could be your future franchise LT.  

If he gets beat out by a 34 year old tackle, what does it matter if his relationship with us is obliterated?  He has 2 years left on his contract. Then he wants to get PAID.  Nsekhe has 2 years on his contract. If we’re serious about winning, you play you’re best players and not worry about next year....which will be the final year of Dawkins’ contract.

 

i don’t see the point of playing a lesser player because he’s younger, especially when they have same amount of years left under contract.  Nsekhe was pretty good last year.  I’ve seen more than a couple analysts listing the Nsekhe signing as one of the best league wide. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Billsfansinceday1 said:

I think Dion benefited from playing next to Incognito and Wood in 2017.  Last year he was on an island of incompetence and suffered for it...just like our running and passing games.  I will go out on a limb and predict that Dion rises from the ashes this year.

 

Yes.  For example, Wood didn't look so good playing between Legursky and Urbik or (worse yet) Urbik and Pears. 

Next year he magically improved playing between Cog and Miller.

 

OL is one of the positions where the guy you're playing next to makes a huge difference, and sites like PFF fall down because they don't know the blocking assignments so when a guy (esp. on the interior) apparently "whiffs" they have no way to know - was it his man to block or not?  Wood was interviewed about this and gave a few examples.

 

[Billzgobowlin]

Russell Bodine

Mitch Morse

Spencer Long

Ike Boettger

Wyatt Teller

Jon Feliciano

Quinton Spain

Jeremiah Sirles

Dion Dawkins

Cody Ford

Ty Nsekhe

Conor McDermott

LaAdrian Waddle

Vladmir Ducasse

 

14 players and curious how this is going to play out.  I bet we cut some very good linemen.

[ColoradoBills]

I agree with the posters who say Dawkins needs to compete for the LT.

He has had a free ride with the Glenn injury and zero competition last year.

His need to improve is no different than anyone else.

The OL is in great shape compared to last year and I am optimistic the cream will rise fast.

 

One of the things I am looking forward to is who is the depth Center.

Bodine is it for now but he doesn't bring "versatility" in dressing him.

This is the number one factor in how many OL players are keep on the 53 IMO.

 

The cut down to 53 is going to have some tough decisions this year in many positions.

I like that!

 

 

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillies said:

 

Seeing that potential line in writing gets me very excited.

 

Nsekhe 6' 8", 325 lb

Dawkins 6' 5", 320 lb

Morse 6' 6", 305 lb

Spain 6' 5", 335 lb

Ford 6' 4" 329

 

Time to get nasty upfront!

 

Huge size doesn't necessarily equate to "nasty".  Most of the really tough/nasty guys tend to be smaller IMO.

 

These guys get too big and they turn into slow moving blubber mobiles.  

 

The nasty guys are more compact with a lower CG and they can get under their block and move him.  When I think of "nasty" Bills OL, I think Jim Ritcher and Incognito.  Neither were huge giants by any means.

 

 

[Magox]

He definitely is on the hot seat.  I am 90% sure of it.

 

"Hot seat" not meaning about to be cut, rather that he will be in a completely open and impartial competition with someone either at guard or tackle.  My guess is that him and Nsekhe will battle it out at LT and the first hint of him losing out they will try him out at guard to attempt to salvage his career as a Bill.  And even then he wont be handed the job.

1 minute ago, Nextmanup said:

Huge size doesn't necessarily equate to "nasty".  Most of the really tough/nasty guys tend to be smaller IMO.

 

These guys get too big and they turn into slow moving blubber mobiles.  

 

The nasty guys are more compact with a lower CG and they can get under their block and move him.  When I think of "nasty" Bills OL, I think Jim Ritcher and Incognito.  Neither were huge giants by any means.

 

 

 

Generally speaking, A good big man is better to have than a good smaller man.  With size comes advantages for O linemen and with size comes a relatively higher degree of being able to physically dominate your opponent than a smaller man.  

[MDH]

1 hour ago, Ittakestime said:

If the Bills are serious about building a nasty line, they will go with:

 

Nsekhe, Dawkins, Morse, Spain, Ford

 

I'm saying it now, if Dawkins is the LT over Nsekhe, this team isn't serious about open competition an building the best line.

 

Yeah, if the team doesn't agree with your expert assessment, they're obviously not serious about putting the best team possible on the field.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said:

Russell Bodine

Mitch Morse

Spencer Long

Ike Boettger

Wyatt Teller

Jon Feliciano

Quinton Spain

Jeremiah Sirles

Dion Dawkins

Cody Ford

Ty Nsekhe

Conor McDermott

LaAdrian Waddle

Vladmir Ducasse

 

14 players and curious how this is going to play out.  I bet we cut some very good linemen.

...GOOD news is when is the last time we were in the position of potentially too much OL talent?....could "Electric Company Take 2" be on the horizon??....stay tuned....

[Koko78]

2 hours ago, Ittakestime said:

If the Bills are serious about building a nasty line, they will go with:

 

Nsekhe, Dawkins, Morse, Spain, Ford

 

I'm saying it now, if Dawkins is the LT over Nsekhe, this team isn't serious about open competition an building the best line.

 

I'd go even father and say that if they don't go with your April suggestion for the line in September, it shows that Beane and McCoach aren't serious about winning, and should be fired. Of course, firing those two for not being serious about winning shows that Mr. Pegula isn't serious about winning, and he should be forced to sell the team to an owner who will defer all personnel decisions, to be decided each April, to an advisory counsel made up of message board GMs.

[dollars 2 donuts]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

I hope so!  After seeing his body at the OTA (or whatever they call it) a couple weeks ago, it didn’t look like he was taking it too seriously.  I figured he had Duffs wings in an IV 

 

 

Uh-oh.

[wppete]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillies said:

 

Seeing that potential line in writing gets me very excited.

 

Nsekhe 6' 8", 325 lb

Dawkins 6' 5", 320 lb

Morse 6' 6", 305 lb

Spain 6' 5", 335 lb

Ford 6' 4" 329

 

Time to get nasty upfront!

 

 

It will be very nasty up front. Toughest Oline in the NFL. I like the line this way.

 

LT - Dawkins

LG - Spain

C - Morse

RG - Ford

LG - NSekhe 

 

Feliciano Rotating in and playing big TE with Jake Fisher. Scary!!!

[TigerJ]

I think Dawkins will face some competition at LT, but I don't think the Bills have necessarily given up on him.  Cody Ford is strictly a RT/G prospect.  Generally teams carry 8-9 offensive linemen.  It will be interesting to see how this all pans out.  At this point I see Morse, Dawkins, Ford, Long and Nsekhe making the 53 man roster for sure.  That's five guys.  That means you've got Feliciano, Spain, Teller, Bodine, Boettger and Waddle competing for 3 or 4 spots.  I'm not even counting Ducasse, McDermott or Sirles.  I assume they are as good as gone.  Morse starts at center.  Bodine is a natural center, who can also play guard.  Feliciano is a natural guard, who can also play center.  Despite a disastrous stint at center for the Jets (when he tried to play through an injury) Long is reasonably adapt at either.  Spain and Teller are probably looked at mostly as guards.  Nsekhe is a natural tackle who has played a little guard.  Ford can play either tackle or guard.  I think Waddle is pretty much a pure tackle.   The versatility of so many of these guys makes sorting it all out a bit complicated.  I think Teller will get a real shot to impress the coaches in order to earn a second year.  I'm sort of doubtful that Bodine hangs on.  Boettger as a UDFA last year has a real uphill climb to make the roster.  I think Morse is probably the only consensus starter.  That makes for a lot of sorting out to do in training camp.

Edited April 27, 2019 by TigerJ

[Gigs]

Spain, Morse and Ford I think are locks. I think Dawkins will have to compete but will win the starting LT job because with better help he can focus on his own assignments and play well. Overall I think the line will be worlds better than what we've seen, and if so our offense should be humming this year next to a top ranked defensive unit that got a huge boost to their trench. 

 

Things are looking up 

[CaptnCoke11]

Still can’t wrap my head around why people think Dawkins is this franchise type LT.. I don’t see it

[NY Nole]

People need to relax on the Dawkins is crap line of thinking. Guy had a really good rookie year — the line and offense was a dumpster fire last year. He will be fine. Whether Tackle or Guard— he is going to be a long-term fixture on this team.

[Nester]

I am so excited to see these players fight to be part of this epic new Offensive line. Competition and depth?  Could you dream we would be in this spot a year ago?

[RochesterRob]

47 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said:

Russell Bodine

Mitch Morse

Spencer Long

Ike Boettger

Wyatt Teller

Jon Feliciano

Quinton Spain

Jeremiah Sirles

Dion Dawkins

Cody Ford

Ty Nsekhe

Conor McDermott

LaAdrian Waddle

Vladmir Ducasse

 

14 players and curious how this is going to play out.  I bet we cut some very good linemen.

  I see some pretty easy cuts if we keep 8 O linemen.  Spencer Long resumes his form and he will be assured a spot if not a starter.   The big question is if Teller stays on the active roster or goes to the PS.

[NewEra]

54 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said:

Russell Bodine

Mitch Morse

Spencer Long

Ike Boettger

Wyatt Teller

Jon Feliciano

Quinton Spain

Jeremiah Sirles

Dion Dawkins

Cody Ford

Ty Nsekhe

Conor McDermott

LaAdrian Waddle

Vladmir Ducasse

 

14 players and curious how this is going to play out.  I bet we cut some very good linemen.

You think we’ll cut some “very good lineman” we only have potentially very good OL imo.  We’ll cut solid depth, no question.  Don’t think the guys cut are regarded as very good

[wppete]

56 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said:

Russell Bodine - Release/Trade

Mitch Morse

Spencer Long

Ike Boettger - Release/Trade

Wyatt Teller -Practice Squad

Jon Feliciano

Quinton Spain

Jeremiah Sirles - Release/Trade

Dion Dawkins

Cody Ford

Ty Nsekhe

Conor McDermott - Release/Trade

LaAdrian Waddle

Vladmir Ducasse - Release/Trade

 

14 players and curious how this is going to play out.  I bet we cut some very good linemen.

 

Very simple. This happens and we end up with 8 on the roster....

[NewEra]

22 minutes ago, NY Nole said:

People need to relax on the Dawkins is crap line of thinking. Guy had a really good rookie year — the line and offense was a dumpster fire last year. He will be fine. Whether Tackle or Guard— he is going to be a long-term fixture on this team.

I hope you’re right, but you’ve already admitted he’s on the hot seat.  If he wasn’t, we’d just be talking about him at LT.  Like you said, whether tackle OR GUARD, he’s going to be a long term fixture.  

 

You can say “relax” but when our 3rd year second rd pick LT of the future loses his job to a 34 year old......we shouldn’t be relaxing.  

[Phil The Thrill]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Yes.  For example, Wood didn't look so good playing between Legursky and Urbik or (worse yet) Urbik and Pears. 

Next year he magically improved playing between Cog and Miller.

 

OL is one of the positions where the guy you're playing next to makes a huge difference, and sites like PFF fall down because they don't know the blocking assignments so when a guy (esp. on the interior) apparently "whiffs" they have no way to know - was it his man to block or not?  Wood was interviewed about this and gave a few examples.

 

 

In the interview that Wood did with Richie, he revealed that they were telling everyone what to do on each play.  So that could explain the drop off between Dion’s first and second year.  Morse seems like the perfect for the line

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

 

In the interview that Wood did with Richie, he revealed that they were telling everyone what to do on each play.  So that could explain the drop off between Dion’s first and second year.  Morse seems like the perfect for the line

 

...have to believe Richie's abrupt "main spring popped" exit caused major disruption and consternation for the OL...hard to deny he was not a mainstay.....so we ended up in the Mouse McNally like "tinkering mode" which Mouse was THE master at..Castillo?...meh.....so with the new FA and draft menu of OL folks, which may just have some potential, maybe we can wait to see what develops before ringing the "sucks" doorbell....then again, an eloquent TBD poster said the FA OL signings were "nothing but castoff journeymen"....thinkin' pigeons pooped in HIS sandbox....

[Kelly the Dog]

I think Dawkins is overrated on the board, although this season will be telling, with much better players around him, next to him, and Castillo out as coach. That said, right now I move him to OG and start with Nsekhe-Dawkins-Morse-Spain-Ford, with three solid backups in Long, Waddle and Feliciano.

[NY Nole]

21 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 but when our 3rd year second rd pick LT of the future loses his job to a 34 year old......we shouldn’t be relaxing.  

 

He hasn’t lost his job yet — if Ty beats him out I believe that means we have an above-average guard to plug in.

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, NY Nole said:

 

He hasn’t lost his job yet — if Ty beats him out I believe that means we have an above-average guard to plug in.

It was in regards to a post I was quoting that said he’ll be our starter at tackle or guard.  If he’s our starter at guard, he’d have gotten beat out (unless they just moved him to guard now)

[BullBuchanan]

5 hours ago, Ittakestime said:

If the Bills are serious about building a nasty line, they will go with:

 

Nsekhe, Dawkins, Morse, Spain, Ford

 

I'm saying it now, if Dawkins is the LT over Nsekhe, this team isn't serious about open competition an building the best line.

I think they both start on the ends with Ford inside. Rumor has it Ford is a run mauler with a weakness in pass protection and he's undersized. I'd rather pair him up with Nsekhe on the right, allowing the bigger journeyman to take care of the top pass rushers in the league.

[Billsfansinceday1]

2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I think they both start on the ends with Ford inside. Rumor has it Ford is a run mauler with a weakness in pass protection and he's undersized. I'd rather pair him up with Nsekhe on the right, allowing the bigger journeyman to take care of the top pass rushers in the league.

McDermott will be mixing and matching with so many new, versatile OLs.

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I think they both start on the ends with Ford inside. Rumor has it Ford is a run mauler with a weakness in pass protection and he's undersized. I'd rather pair him up with Nsekhe on the right, allowing the bigger journeyman to take care of the top pass rushers in the league.

 

Beane said that Ford's first position is RT.  So I would guess he's pencilled-in there to start.

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Beane said that Ford's first position is RT.  So I would guess he's pencilled-in there to start.

But he also said guard is an option. I'm betting that he makes more sense there as a smaller guy who can run block. The competition is also weaker inside.

Edited April 27, 2019 by BullBuchanan

[d_wag]

Yes Dawkins is very much on the hot seat, for both his job and even his roster spot. This might light a fire under him and we see big improvements in TC but he’s going to need to show up or he’ll be off with the depth now on the roster. Currently very overrated on this board. 

[NewEra]

13 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

But he also said guard is an option. I'm betting that he makes more sense there as a smaller guy who can run block. The competition is also weaker inside.

Of they drafted him to be a RT, then why not have him play RT?  Nsekhe said he prefers LT and is better there.  So he competes with the guy that wasn’t good last year and has never won a competition under McD.  Doesn’t hurt that that guy projected better at guard as well.  

 

Lots of directions we can go, but if MCD says he’s a RT, that means they drafted him to be the RT.  Why put him at guard with exhausting other options (aka, Nsekhe and Dawkins fight for LT) as opposed to ford and Nsekhe battle for RT.

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Of they drafted him to be a RT, then why not have him play RT?  Nsekhe said he prefers LT and is better there.  So he competes with the guy that wasn’t good last year and has never won a competition under McD.  Doesn’t hurt that that guy projected better at guard as well.  

 

Lots of directions we can go, but if MCD says he’s a RT, that means they drafted him to be the RT.  Why put him at guard with exhausting other options (aka, Nsekhe and Dawkins fight for LT) as opposed to ford and Nsekhe battle for RT.

My only reason for it is to have good pass blockers on the ends when we have to play against very tough ones. If Ford is a better pass blocker than people say, then do whatever. Dawkins was our best lineman last year on a bad squad, and the season before he made Glenn expendable. I think there's more evidence that the kid is good enough than evidence he isn't.